How to be an Intelligent and Responsible Suspect Voter

reachzero

the pastor of disaster
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Participating in the Suspect Testing process is one of the most rewarding and enjoyable aspects of belonging to Smogon. However, testing a Suspect is a long and challenging process. Suspects are Suspect specifically because they are on the borderline between OU and Uber, and so they are always difficult to evaluate at first. Knowing Smogon's definition of Uber is absolutely crucial to this process, of course, so the definition is found here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1731477&postcount=72
This thread is for tips and suggestions as to how to become an intelligent and responsible Suspect voter. This has two basic components: evaluating the Suspect, and managing the Suspect ladder.



Evaluating the Suspect is the most important part of the Suspect process. If you succeed in attaining eligibility, how will you vote? The following principles will help:

1. Use the Suspect! This point cannot be overstated. Without actually using the Suspect, you will never fully understand what it is and is not capable of doing. You don't need to use the Suspect in 100% of your battles, and it is a good idea to see whether you can win without it. But if you never use it, you don't know it well enough to form a good opinion of it.

2. Throw away your prior ideas of what the Suspect is and does For the duration of the testing period, the Suspect is not Uber, nor is it OU. Do not assume right away where it belongs or will "probably end up". Begin from the beginning. What roles can this Suspect play? Think outside the box. Deoxys-E was seen as a revenge killer before an enterprising soul (I believe it was wdro) changed the way it was perceived with the Double Screen set.

3. Feel free to experiment Try new EV spreads, movesets, items, and even roles. Try as hard as you can to "break" the Suspect. When YacheChomp was first used, people laughed at it. Eventually, it came to be the most memorable Garchomp set. Few people remembered that Wobbuffet even learned Tickle before people started using it to trap and kill slower walls.

4. Use as many different sets for the Suspect as possible A single Suspect may have a chance to become Uber based on any or all of the three clauses (Offensive, Defensive or Support), so it is wise to attempt making use of the Suspect in as many of these roles as is plausible. If you have already used Calm Mind Latios with Life Orb, have you tried Specs Latios? If both of these have not swept through the metagame, have you tried mixed Dragon Dance Latios? Have you used Dual Screen Memento Latios to abuse Baton Pass?

5. Observe the Suspect both on your own team and on your opponents' Take note of what your opponents use against the Suspect when you use it. How are they stopping it? How effective is their strategy at containing the Suspect? Are their methods leaving them vulnerable to the rest of the metagame (such as using Skill-Link Cloyster to stop Garchomp)? Also take note of how well you have done against the Suspect, and prepare accordingly. If all of your Pokemon are below 328 speed and you don't have an Electric or Grass move, you cannot complain if Manaphy sweeps you.



Managing the Suspect ladder is the hardest part of the Suspect process for many players. How do I evaluate the Suspect, while raising my rating and lowering my deviation? These suggestions may help:

1. Actively maintain no fewer than two Suspect accounts Decide before you start how you will use your main name and your alts while testing. I recommend using one account specifically for experimentation with different teams and sets, and two others to ladder competitively with the teams and sets that you find successful. Using two serious laddering accounts protects you from the negative consequences of lowering your deviation to the point where you can no longer raise your ratings high enough to qualify should you have a bad losing streak. Don't ladder with two at the same time however, as this can lead to "mirror matches", which are cheating.

2. If you find a "broken" set, abuse it as much as you can Don't be shy about using an obviously overpowered set. Don't be discouraged if your opponents flame you for using it. This is what the Suspect process is all about. Play to win.

3. If you meet an obviously superior player twice or more in a row, take a break Nothing is more damaging to a would-be voter than getting repeatedly beaten down by the same opponent. I nearly lost eligibility this way in the closing days of the Latias test by losing repeatedly to Twist of Fate; if you find yourself getting "ToFed", wait for the other player to finish before you resume laddering. However, it might be a good idea to continue watching that player to see what he/she has been doing right: what aspects of his/her strategy allowed them to beat you?

4. Don't repeat your mistakes If you find that your team is very weak to a particular common Pokemon or strategy, adjust it before you continue laddering. This sounds obvious, but countless times I have wiped out an opponent with something like DD Salamence, then met them again immediately afterward and swept them exactly the same way.

5. Do your best to ladder every day If you go long periods of time without playing, your deviation will rise and your rating will lower, so consistency is important. Try to play at least three Suspect matches per day on each account you are using to competitively ladder. I have made this part of my morning pre-work routine, and it goes a long way toward keeping your record up.

Feel free to discuss these points, and suggest points of your own!
 
Its great to see this thread, it will clear up a lot of the pointless posts that people have been making in regards to the suspect testing in general.


I've been using a lot of the above ideas, and to be honest, I've found Suspect to be very similar to Standard, I really don't see even Latios that often. I hope this inspires more people to be creative.
 
Thanks for that, especially the rating part. I took a big blow yesterday when I was playing a few matches a time, and my computer crashed, resulting in a fairly big drop of points. I guess I need to be more careful now with my deviation.
 
I think I need to stress this rating part.

When I got on this morning, I had every intention of seriously suspect laddering. Throughout the month, I had been just playing on ladder for fun, and testing teams as well as Latios occasionally. I have a pretty good feeling of where Latios stands as far as Uber/OU, and I've tested most of its sets. Unfortunately, a lot of my other tests flopped (theorymon can only get you so far?).

My rating this morning was pitiful. IIRC it was something around 1429-1590? Probably worse than that.

I mean, in theory it's still possible to get to the requirements from there, but sometimes real life and lady luck don't allow that (EDIT- like as of now my rank is 1596-1686 or something like that, and I didn't exactly make this post that long ago). If I don't get enough points to vote, I won't complain (I more or less brought it upon myself by not using alts all the time to test stuff with), but I don't want anybody else to put themselves in that position.
 
Good to see this thread ^^

I made a tremendous mistake, i tested with my main suspect account :(

Just imagine, a very low deviation, but a sucky rating + now it barely goes up thanks to the low deviation. Time to test with an alt and not with the main xD
 
I don't feel this was touched on enough (or even directly):

Don't wait until the last minute!

Procrastination gets the best of all of us. If you waited until this weekend to decide to ladder, you can pretty much assume you're SOL unless you're a top player. Why? Because other top players are doing the same thing (tsk tsk). You'll constently hit rule 3 on the rating section of getting beat by the same player constantly. So then you need to wait for them to get off, but at this point how much time can you really afford to spend waiting for somebody to get off? And even then, when they do get off, chances are that you are greeted by yet another player that will (literally) wall your progress. Waiting until the late portion of the test also leaves a majority of your opinion up to theorymon and will increase your chances of not getting to vote based on your criteria.


Maybe this doesn't exactly fall under the ratings section, but it is important to keep in mind. Waiting is not a smart move period. If you wait, don't whine about getting shafted because there are better players on at the crucial scramble to meet ratings.
 
I got Havak'd with my suspect account (stupid scarfmence) and now I need my deviation to rise to at least 90 before I can try again, so I'm on an alt at the moment.

I have doubts on whether or not I can make it - I'm a very inconsistent battler.
 
Nice one Reachzero.

I've been laddering as has Havak, and we've talked about the Latios and the test and stuff, and we have been using the same team, and we are both now eligible to vote. The best thing I would say, is play over time. There hasn't been huge amounts of activity over the suspect test and Havak will agree with me when I say that you often have to wait over ten minutes for a game (we're both UK). This makes it very hard to ladder, especially as you will often come across the same player, so I've tried to have more than one team at my disposal so I can switch about if need be.

If your deviation is still high, don't panic. I got mine down to below 50 over about three days, doing about 1-2 hours of laddering a day. There's still a few days left and you should be able to get your deviation down enough, especially as more players start to come on the ladder in the last minute rush!

Also, if you start losing, stop playing for a while. I was almost at the high-boundary requirements (as in an average of 5~ off), but I lost a few matches and now I'm quite a way off, so now I'm just "settling" where I am. Don't feel the need to force your rating up hugely high. If you can, great. Otherwise, don't worry too much, you still have a good shot at voting.
 
Since this thread is meant to inform new battlers about strategies and recommendations for the Suspect Ladder, wouldn't it be a good idea to give a general record for which one should reach? Obviously, the current minimum is 1650/65, and has been for the past few Suspect Tests, so I feel it could be noted within this thread; I'd like to note that the description for "mean rating" is only described on one thread, and I find it likely the mean rating can be confused with CRE, so it should be noted here as well.
 
Isn't the main issue with procrastinating that if you do, the suspect ladder is so dead that you won't be able to get any battles? On that note, I'm not planning on participating as I'm fine with Latios either in or out, but for those who want to vote-- I'd definitely say to get on it because you might not be able to get enough battles to make it.

Though, I guess if everyone procrastinates the ladder might liven up again at the end. xD
 
Great thread man. Thanks for the mention lol.

As for suspect laddering, it really isn't as hard as it's made out to be. The main thing is consistency. Don't ladder for the beginning of the period, or strictly the end. I made this error for the Latias vote, where I was scrambling to reach the upper requirements. Yes the ladder is slow and inconsistent, but spacing out your matches over a period of time gives you a less likely chance of facing a top played, and also decreases your deviation (highly important!).

Yeah, the other thing is to limit your matches. The more you play per day, the more likely you will lose. Just a simple fact that goes hand in hand with the first point I made. Space out your matches, and don't feel dejected because of a loss. Stick to some guidelines, and you should have no problem reaching the required ratings.
 
Occasionally, developing a team to beat a certain player that you encounter very often is not a terrible strategy either. Also, I'd suggest having multiple "good teams" in case you find yourself up against the same person several times in a row. That way, you can switch things up if they begin to catch on, or if you find yourself with a horrible team match-up.
 
Nice thread. Just curious, as the rating is spread over a range, does just one part of your rating have to be above the requirements, the majority of it, or all of it?
 
Nice thread. Just curious, as the rating is spread over a range, does just one part of your rating have to be above the requirements, the majority of it, or all of it?

Rating is (upper number - lower number) / 2. CRE is independent of the rating required for suspect voting.
 
I'd also like to say that whilst I was attempting to reach the upper threshold, I lost a few matches and now it's almost mathematically impossible me to qualify on my account.

Point is: be content with reaching the lower requirements! It's a lot easier to write a carefully planned paragraph or two than starting again on a fresh account (unless you're FKR). And even if your paragraph is not accepted, well at least you put the effort in, and that's what matters - your experience.
 
And if you dont make it, see the bright side!

You now know a lot about Latios if it becomes OU!

So yeah, even if you dont qualify, you get benefits!
 
It's a lot easier to write a carefully planned paragraph or two than starting again on a fresh account (unless you're FKR). And even if your paragraph is not accepted, well at least you put the effort in, and that's what matters - your experience.

For the record, I ONLY used my Bolts account for the Latias test and never had to start again on another account. This testing period has been different and I've just goofing around on the ladder with 3 different accounts, sitting at like 1525 on all 3 of them. I plan on putting the hammer down this week and making a run at the upper tier requirements this week.

Anyway, I think that the point of trying out many different sets for the suspect especially applies to this test. Many people assumed that Latios was primarily going to be a Spec/LO special sweeper but it really went beyond that, proving to be a major physical sweeper. In addition, it emerged as a decent support Pokemon when it comes to Dual Screen and Memento.
 
I like this topic. I do disagree however on the first point!

1. Use the Suspect! This point cannot be overstated. Without actually using the Suspect, you will never fully understand what it is and is not capable of doing. You don't need to use the Suspect in 100% of your battles, and it is a good idea to see whether you can win without it. But if you never use it, you don't know it well enough to form a good opinion of it.

I disagree. I've never piloted a plane, but I could easily explain how one works. I fundamentally disagree that I actually have to use something to understand it. I can make a perfectly educated opinion on something without ever using it. As long as I understand its basic mechanics, function etc. and have seen it used against me - I'm more than qualified to form an opinion. Take Shaymin-S. I never used that Pokemon once, mostly because I thought it was a garbage Pokemon and didn't earn a team slot. I can't advocate telling people to use something if they think it's garbage and a waste of a team slot. I just don't believe it's necessary to use the suspect to actually make a qualified vote.


--------
random stuff

Deoxys-E was seen as a revenge killer before an enterprising soul (I believe it was wdro) changed the way it was perceived with the Double Screen set.

My obligatory, "that set was hype" remark :p.

Few people remembered that Wobbuffet even learned Tickle before people started using it to trap and kill slower walls.

My obligatory, "that set didn't impress me" remark :p.


Anyway, helpful thread.
 
I don't have to use Latios to know that a STAB Draco Meteor off of 130 base Special Attack will over centralize the metagame. We've had enough experience with Salamence and now Latias to know how powerful it is.
 
I remeber reading for previous Suspect Tests that the 1650/65 requirements were also needed on the Standard ladder. Does anyone know if this is still the case for the current (and upcoming) Suspect tests?
 
Concerning laddering every day, I can only use Shoddy about half of the days of the week, which didn't help much when I tried to make rating in the last suspect test. What's the best way to make up for that, especially for someone like myself who's not a god at singles?
 
Back
Top