NU Discussion Thread

[Overhazard]

Note: It is very likely that a new tier will be formed between UU and NU, due to the amount of Pokemon left over, which is essentially the metagame that this thread discusses. This does not impact any discussion in the thread except for the fact that this tier will probably not be NU. There will be no further discussion on this new tier in this thread. - Great Sage


NU Pokemon have finally been determined. This tier will be, perhaps, the most interesting tier yet! We have quite an offensive group of Pokemon such as Rampardos, Tauros, Slaking, Ursarang, and Tangrowth. All of which were BL not to long ago. Lets not forget that we have have a few legends in the ranks, Articuno and Entei.

Smogon's NU list:
http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/nu


This thread is meant solely for NU discussion. This includes, but is not limited to, Tier placement, common trends, and "counter" discussion.

[Vrolok]

What will be the equivalent BL tier between UU and NU? Will there be testing done as well for NU? There are some obvious powerhouses in NU right now that just didn't see play in UU.

[petrie911]

The speed tiers are rather interesting. In base speed, the top few are as follows

115--Floatzel, Persian, Sneasel
112--Purugly,
110--Tauros, Jumpluff
105--Rapidash, Manectric, Lopunny, Kadabra, Electabuzz
100--Dodrio, Entei, Linoone, Fearow, Raichu, Regigigas, Slaking, Voltorb

Scarf Kadabra could be quite big, as its revenge killing capabilities are quite good, and it can Trick its scarf later. 120 base satk is nothing to scoff at. Belly Drum Linoone now outspeeds a huge amount of the tier. Quick Feet Ursaring falls between 105 and 110. Tauros's good defense, high speed and attack, and Intimidate should make it a very valuable pokemon in this tier.

Which brings me to Steel types. Here's the complete list.

Aggron
Bastiodon
Probopass
Magneton
Mawile
Bronzor
Metang
Wormadam-s

Ouch. The good steel types are all double weak to fighting AND ground. Except Magneton, who's a sweeper, not a tank. Looks like Rock types will rule the Normal resist category.

[sbc]

Will there be a NU ladder on the server?

Theorymon time:
I'm guessing you can't beat SD Quick Feet Ursaring without revenge killing, same witho Zangoose. Can't see much stopping Agility--->Marowak except Tangrowth

[Heysup]

Originally Posted by Fat sbc

Will there be a NU ladder on the server?

Theorymon time:
I'm guessing you can't beat SD Quick Feet Ursaring without revenge killing, same witho Zangoose. Can't see much stopping Agility--->Marowak except Tangrowth

Same way as you did before, priority and/or faster Pokemon.

[throwknife]

Don't forget the fact we have Weezing now.

[Friar]

I'm thinking stuff like Banded Regicanth and Wall/Specs Regice will be pretty dominant in NU.

Also some Dual Screen Psychic (Chimecho/Girafarig)---> Linoone with Magneton support could be deadly. I see Magneton being pretty common as Steel type is going to be hard to break in NU. Lots of Psychics/Normals/Flyers.

Last thing, where do NFE's stand? Is Gabite NU? There are definitely some NFE's that could shine in NU.

[diinbong]

All NFEs that did not get enough usage to warrant mention on the new UU list are NU, yes.

There's going to be a lot of hard hitters; it's not going to be a kind of "dominated by Rock-types" NU, if you know what I mean.

[charmander6000]

In the tier list thread there was some talk of changing the name to RU (rarely used), which seems like a good if we are going to make another lower tier. The tier between UU and NU could be called borderline 2 or something to that effect.

With Snover and Hippopotas I see weather being a major force in this tier, especially with pokemon such as Rhydon, Cradily, Walrein and Glaceon.

[petrie911]

I'd also support calling the tier RU, with a ban tier called something like BL2 or Barely Viable (BV) or something. NU can be the tier below that, which probably won't even need a ban tier, as most of the large threats should be in RU. I'd also like to see a ladder for this, although supporting 5 ladders might be a bit much.

Quick Feet Ursaring could be a problem. Facade and Shadow Claw have pretty good coverage, and Close Combat or EQ can round out the last move. Still, no reason to ban things yet.

Also, weather looks to be very interesting. With Sandstorm in play, Shuckle has 244 HP, 614 Def, and 746 sDef. Rest/Toxic/Encore/Knock Off should do nicely, as Hippopotas can set up rocks. Cradily also becomes a beast, with defenses to rival Regice, Recover, and Swords Dance for attack boosting.

Sun also looks great. Exeggutor is in the tier, so its 125 base satk can go on a rampage, and there's still other grasses and Fires for sweeping fun. Rain seems to have lost a lot of its sweepers, but there's still Relicanth and Gorebyss, and Dewgong is a very interesting option.

Hail might present a problem. On the one hand, we still have Stallrein, which Glalie can also pull off. FEAR Clefairy and Cleffa are present in the tier, and Glaceon has STAB, 100% accurate Blizzards off the highest special attack in the tier. But, on the other hand, you're still playing down 5-6, and if you lose Snover and the weather changes, your team is kind of screwed.

[Elevator Music]

Grrr... still no tier where Dustox is usable.


Still I think NU has the most potential to be my favorite metagame right now. We'll see.

[Random Pizzaman]

I'm sure you can use Dustox in some form thats not outclassed by Venomoth/ Beedrill/ Luvdisc

I've played 1 NU match, and got raped by Tauros and Specs Tangrowth =(

[Wols]

This is an awful NU list. The point of the format is to give a home to people who aren't viable in UU...

...but under the current definition of NU, it has excellent physical attackers like Tauros, Marowak and Kangaskhan...it has excellent special attackers like Glaceon, Tangrowth and Manectric...it has the great special wall Hypno...

When I'm throwing around terms like "great" and "excellent", I'm referring of course to their use in UU. plenty of these "NU" guys are entirely viable in UU, especially Tauros who I would call top-tier in terms of effectiveness (if not popularity).

What is the point of a format where I'm supposed to be able to play awful guys like Beedrill and Mightyena when there are Sharpedos running around? This list is more like "UU without the top tier" than a true NU.

I, for one, will refrain from playing it until and unless the bar for NU is set a LOT lower. As it stands, the purpose and the heart of the format is conspicuously absent.


Edit: Hippopotas is NU, so that means you can have a Sand Stream Cradily in NU. That's right, a guy that works very well in OU is NU-legal. What.

[Lou Cypher]

It is not Wols. The point is to keep going in steps. This is the next step, in 2 months or so, I assume the next leap will be made.
I'm looking forward to this new tier, I really do.

[Deco]

I agree this is not exactly a list of Pokemon you would call NU. It might be more sensible to call the current UU MU instead or something like that (Moderately Used), and then change this tier's name to UU..

That said, it's still a great initiative and I really like to see this progression. ^^ Now continue until every Pokemon has a tier it can shine in!

[ChouToshio]

Originally Posted by Fat petrie911

The speed tiers are rather interesting. In base speed, the top few are as follows

In terms of leads:
115--FloatzelBulk Up Pass and Rain Rape, Persian, Sneasel Fake Out actually makes this thing look ineresting. Too bad about not being able to set anything up . . .
112--Purugly,
110--Tauros NU Gyara Lead! lol, Jumpluff God damn, sleep powder lead will be a bitch. Not looking forward to all the sun and momento abuse either.
105--Rapidash, Manectric, Lopunny, Kadabra Double Screen/Encore/Taunt/Trick/Attacking Abilities, yeah this thing is gonna be fun, Electabuzz
100--Dodrio, Entei, Linoone, Fearow, Raichu, Regigigas, Slaking, Voltorb

Scarf Kadabra could be quite big, as its revenge killing capabilities are quite good, and it can Trick its scarf later. 120 base satk is nothing to scoff at. Belly Drum Linoone now outspeeds a huge amount of the tier. Quick Feet Ursaring falls between 105 and 110. Tauros's good defense, high speed and attack, and Intimidate should make it a very valuable pokemon in this tier.

Which brings me to Steel types. Here's the complete list.

Aggron
Bastiodon
Probopass
Magneton All know that this guy has his uses.
Mawile
Bronzor
Metang This one has nice typing obviously, an dstats are not completely unusable . . . Metagross' movepool too of course.
Wormadam-s

Ouch. The good steel types are all double weak to fighting AND ground. Except Magneton, who's a sweeper, not a tank. Looks like Rock types will rule the Normal resist category.

[Objection]

Originally Posted by Fat Deco

I agree this is not exactly a list of Pokemon you would call NU. It might be more sensible to call the current UU MU instead or something like that (Moderately Used), and then change this tier's name to UU..

Actually, I think it would be better to just rename all the tiers. Ubers can stay as it is, OU would become Usage Tier 1 (or UT1), BL would become Ban List 1 (BL1), the current UU would become UT2, etc. etc.

[Wols]

Originally Posted by Fat Lou Cypher

It is not Wols. The point is to keep going in steps. This is the next step, in 2 months or so, I assume the next leap will be made.
I'm looking forward to this new tier, I really do.

Then why even make the tier if it isn't finished yet?

[Objection]

Originally Posted by Fat Wols

Then why even make the tier if it isn't finished yet?

Because we all need to start somewhere.

[Lou Cypher]

Originally Posted by Fat Wols

Then why even make the tier if it isn't finished yet?

Because 2 months ago, the same happened to UU. This is like Step 2 for UU, and Step 1 for NU.

[Comatose811]

I would name the new tier "RU" or "MU" and keep UU named as it is and keep NU the tier of utterly worthless crap, as that is what those tiers are commonly considered as. I would imagine the tier list would end up looking something like: Ubers-->OU-->BL OU-->UU-->BL UU-->RU-->BL RU-->NU.

[Naxte]

Originally Posted by Fat Wols

This is an awful NU list. The point of the format is to give a home to people who aren't viable in UU...

No; that may be what some people want it to be, but that isn't what it actually is; NU is simply the list of Pokemon that are "rarely seen" in UU. NU may not have come out quite the way most of us were expecting, but this is what it's actually supposed to be.

And of course, with it just having been made, we have no clue how the NU tier will turn out; it could end up needing quite a bit of work, or, more likely IMO, it could simply wind up like old UU, wherein initially a lot of things looked broken at first and were moved up to BL, but upon redoing the tier having it be found that only a small handful of things really need to be banned.

In other words, just give the tier a fair shot, and some time to develop. It may not have been quite what we were thinking it was going to be at first, but that doesn't mean that it can't develop into a fun and enjoyable metagame.

[kd24]

uh nu stands for neverused guys. So if something is never used (like tauros [sadly]) he will become "never used".

im sure eventually we will come to a process of weeding out the too strong for nu and create maybe bl 2? actually i have no idea what is being planned but you guys shouldnt worry too long, this project has gone smoothly so far so i dont see why it would change.

[Rolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Friar

I'm thinking stuff like Banded Regicanth and Wall/Specs Regice will be pretty dominant in NU.

I've been using a Banded Relicanth successfully in OU. It can easily beat anything without a grass/special electric move with very nice defense and HP.

To tell you the truth, I'm a little surprised by some of the picks. It does look like a fun tier to play though.

[Overhazard]

Please refrain from Tier naming. It hardly has effect on the NU metagame don't you think? I'm sure there will be a ban list and I hope a mod or two will become dedicated to NU (and UU if need be) to help speed up the Tiering process. Also, there is no point in theorymoning as you can do unratted NU battles.