np: Stage 3 - Family Reunion ("This Is Why I Created" Remix)

**Jumpman16** · May 17th, 2009, 6:30:21 PM

The fun starts here, ladies and gentlemen. Hope you're ready for a good time, cause you've never seen or heard anything as hot and fresh as this in your life.

Stage 3. Much referenced, much talked about, and much depended upon (and hyped up) by yours truly for almost a year now. With the help of other Tiering Contributors, I've had a vision about how this entire Suspect Test Process will commence as far as pokemon Suspects are concerned for a long time, and it will finally get to play out now on the Suspect Ladder.

A refresher:

Stage 3: Analysis of all the Suspects in the standard metagame with the knowledge of which are considered Uber and OU in a Suspect-free metagame.

We know now which are considered uber and which are considered ou—this is their "Stage 2 tag" I've been referring to from the beginning. What I am asking of you is simply to play on the ladder when Doug gets it up. Try and genuinely break any of the Suspects. Don't have any mercy on your opponents or other pokemon. Remember, Suspects are Suspects because they may not be uber in the "true" metagame. We all need to know to what extent any of the six Suspects we're testing really are uber, and we can only know that for sure by playing with them all together as if they're supposed to be together.

The six Suspects are:

Shaymin-S
Garchomp
Latios
Manaphy
Latias
Deoxys-S

Aeolus and I have decided that this is the actual importance of the Suspects in this order, given their Stage 2 voting percentages and public experience with them. I'm stating this because this is the only "requirement" thus far that you all have to be aware of. We all really, really need to get Skymin's tiering right, where DXS is less important because it's "probably uber". That's not to say that you shouldn't use DXS or that doing so will not impact your Suspect EXP—it will just do so to a lesser degree than will experience with Skymin, for obvious reasons.

Doug will open up this thread when he's ready with the ladder. This test will be for at least seven weeks (probably 8+), at which point we will decide who gets voting rights. Rating and Deviation are still important, but there are no requirements for these with regard to Stage 3. Just know that the better the...better.

Again, the only requirement is to go and play the Suspect Ladder. Doug, Aeolus and I will take care of the hard part. You just go mix it up.

edit: here is the formula we used to weight for final Stage 3 SEXP

(Rating * (4SkyminSEXP + 3.5GarchompSEXP + 3LatiosSEXP + 1.5ManaphySEXP + LatiasSEXP))

We decide to ignore Deviation here, as per X-Act's input

**Aeolus** · May 17th, 2009, 8:25:21 PM

We will not be releasing the actual formula that will be used to compute scores at this time. It is only important that you understand the conceptual framework we will be using to determine the voter pool. Experience with the suspects is paramount. Experience with the most contentious suspects is most important.

It is also important to realize that there will be a minimum Suspect Exp set for each and every Pokemon. Do not fail to meet that particular minimum on any single suspect if you want voting rights... neglect nobody! In the end, only objective criteria will be used... so no impassioned pleas, special permission, or status entitlements will count. Make a deliberate effort to learn as much as you can by playing on the test ladder, and you will be just fine when it comes time to release who made the voting cut. Have fun!

X-Act · May 18th, 2009, 1:56:09 AM

I'm posting this just to notify my fellow admins that if I can help on this, I'm offering my help. (However, do realise that my time zone is different from yours.)

**Blue Kirby** · May 18th, 2009, 2:05:19 AM

To reflect the importance of this stage of the Suspect testing process, Battling 101 is running a Suspect edition of its usual tutoring rounds. This time around, it is only open to people who want help traversing the Suspect Ladder in order to secure a voting position.

Everyone who is selected to participate will be paired up with a tutor, and you will work together in order to both maximize your odds of qualifying. You can be assured that whoever you are paired with will be helping you out for the entire testing period - you'll finally have someone to bounce ideas off and help you determine quickly what's going to work and what isn't.

If you feel you could use the help, then make sure you head on over to the Battling 101 Round 41 sign up thread, which is located here.

Best of luck everybody!

**DougJustDoug** · May 18th, 2009, 6:05:03 PM

The new Stage 3 Suspect Ladder is now open for business! Good luck battling with some of your old favorites or hated enemies, whichever the case may be. I'm looking forward to the feedback and commentary in this thread.

caelum edit: As always, this thread is to be devoid of theorymon and any comments should be based solely on your experiences with the Suspect Ladder.

zorbees · May 18th, 2009, 6:08:14 PM

So excited for this, thanks to all who are involved

**Haunter** · May 18th, 2009, 6:17:45 PM

So, correct me if I'm wrong, there are no rating requirements in this test.
Right?

Manzinator · May 18th, 2009, 6:26:48 PM

Already started playing, really fun, but im gettign slaughtered :P

J-Bones · May 18th, 2009, 6:27:54 PM

Well, good ol' SD Yache Chomp is back...
One thing I predict is at the end, many of votes votes will end up as "If A is voted OU, then I vote B OU"
Just a thought.

Mario With Lasers · May 18th, 2009, 6:30:59 PM

I guess there will be no Deoxys-D/Ho-oh testing anymore?

Zepar · May 18th, 2009, 6:33:06 PM

Chomp is really the most annoying right now IMO, while Deoxys-s is really a liability. Shaymin-S is pretty bad, it is fragile and Seed Flare lost me a match or two with 85% accuracy. Deoxys-S is total set up bait.

Quote:

Really, it's early to say things, but I'm seeing a lot of dragons with scarf, which is taking a bit to get used to. Every match of mine has had one so far.

true

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ReyScarface

First impression: Deoxys and Metagross leads are EVERYWHERE. Out of 15~ battles, 14 were Deos + Grosses, 1 being a Shaymin.

Second Impression: Every team has at least 2 Dragons and 2 Steels, if not, then theres a Mamoswine and/or a weavile.

Third Impression: 85% Of the teams i have seen are tremendously weak to SD Scizor, mainly thanks to no Rotom woo.

Every team has a Mamo

I've haven't seen ScarfChomp but I do see loads of YacheChomps.

Diana · May 18th, 2009, 6:40:59 PM

Really, it's early to say things, but I'm seeing a lot of dragons with scarf, which is taking a bit to get used to. Every match of mine has had one so far.

pi face · May 18th, 2009, 6:47:55 PM

where's Wobbuffet?

Manzinator · May 18th, 2009, 6:55:55 PM

EDIT:

After playing a bit more, the Deoxys speed ties are really annoying, and really says who wins. Garchomp isn't very scary anymore with Scizor's bullet punch taking out half his HP. Latios seems a bit too overwhelming, unless you have one too. Skymin is good, but not really game-Breakingly powerful, as SR weak and abundance of ice + priority keeps him from destroying everything.

reyscarface · May 18th, 2009, 7:00:54 PM

First impression: Deoxys and Metagross leads are EVERYWHERE. Out of 15~ battles, 14 were Deos + Grosses, 1 being a Shaymin.

Second Impression: Every team has at least 2 Dragons and 2 Steels, if not, then theres a Mamoswine and/or a weavile.

Third Impression: 85% Of the teams i have seen are tremendously weak to SD Scizor, mainly thanks to no Rotom woo.

franky · May 18th, 2009, 7:08:35 PM

Usually around UU but I went to OU Suspect for the first time but man Steels + Dragons + Dragon check. Those are the three pokemon I see simultaneously. I do agree with Ray that SD Scizor is troublesome, not many are prepapred. Speaking of Rotom-C, I haven't seen any Stall Teams yet and I can see why with all these overwhelming offense.

foibles · May 18th, 2009, 7:15:53 PM

I'm getting REALLY good results with a simple latios+garchomp combo with their respectively useful choice items and +speed natures. It's hard to beleive that garchomp was once OU after battling without him for so long.

Genny · May 18th, 2009, 7:19:18 PM

Are people usually running Adamant or Jolly on their Garchomps? I'm still running the same old Adamant Yache Chomp, yet it seems like I'm losing every time it's Chomp vs. Chomp.

Diana · May 18th, 2009, 7:20:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gen. Empoleon

Are people usually running Adamant or Jolly on their Garchomps? I'm still running the same old Adamant Yache Chomp, yet it seems like I'm losing every time it's Chomp vs. Chomp.

I'm using Jolly for SD Chomp, but Adamant for Scarfchomp.

foibles · May 18th, 2009, 7:23:52 PM

I'd say that jolly is probably the better nature for garchomp if you're not using a scarf. It insures speed ties with other garchomp for the most part, plus outspeeds base 100 pokemon (manaphy mostly), even if they have +speed natures.

Zepar · May 18th, 2009, 7:25:51 PM

I am having some fun with Roserade, everyone is running Deoxys-S for a lead.

reyscarface · May 18th, 2009, 7:31:12 PM

Paranoid, how is Deoxys set-up bait? It has taunt...

Zepar · May 18th, 2009, 7:34:27 PM

I used Rock Polish Taunt Gliscor and Deoxys-S is low in Offense, even when Mixed, to me.

Quote:

My only real observation so far: SD yache-chomp is not nearly as good with Latios and Latias around.

Lati@s make it worse. Scizor cannot deal with Dual Screen Latios so you have to use Tyranitar (aswell as a Skymin check). And then Garchomp "You have a 80% max chance of doing something, and you have to have a STAB Dragon Pulse/Outrage, still be faster or use a 269SpA Ice move not counting Yache!".

Abacus · May 18th, 2009, 7:42:00 PM

My only real observation so far: SD yache-chomp is not nearly as good with Latios and Latias around.

**august** · May 18th, 2009, 7:45:04 PM

My first impression: Fire Punch Deoxys e is having a field day with cocky Scizors looking for a free Pursuit / U Turn. Also 3HKOs Metagross so it cant switch in too much.

May 17th, 2009, 6:30:21 PM	#1
Jumpman16 only takes attitude from his Sassy Playa Gata Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,600 Where they make Heinz® ketchup	np: Stage 3 - Family Reunion ("This Is Why I Created" Remix) The fun starts here, ladies and gentlemen. Hope you're ready for a good time, cause you've never seen or heard anything as hot and fresh as this in your life. Stage 3. Much referenced, much talked about, and much depended upon (and hyped up) by yours truly for almost a year now. With the help of other Tiering Contributors, I've had a vision about how this entire Suspect Test Process will commence as far as pokemon Suspects are concerned for a long time, and it will finally get to play out now on the Suspect Ladder. A refresher: Stage 3: Analysis of all the Suspects in the standard metagame with the knowledge of which are considered Uber and OU in a Suspect-free metagame. We know now which are considered uber and which are considered ou—this is their "Stage 2 tag" I've been referring to from the beginning. What I am asking of you is simply to play on the ladder when Doug gets it up. Try and genuinely break any of the Suspects. Don't have any mercy on your opponents or other pokemon. Remember, Suspects are Suspects because they may not be uber in the "true" metagame. We all need to know to what extent any of the six Suspects we're testing really are uber, and we can only know that for sure by playing with them all together as if they're supposed to be together. The six Suspects are: Shaymin-S Garchomp Latios Manaphy Latias Deoxys-S Aeolus and I have decided that this is the actual importance of the Suspects in this order, given their Stage 2 voting percentages and public experience with them. I'm stating this because this is the only "requirement" thus far that you all have to be aware of. We all really, really need to get Skymin's tiering right, where DXS is less important because it's "probably uber". That's not to say that you shouldn't use DXS or that doing so will not impact your Suspect EXP—it will just do so to a lesser degree than will experience with Skymin, for obvious reasons. Doug will open up this thread when he's ready with the ladder. This test will be for at least seven weeks (probably 8+), at which point we will decide who gets voting rights. Rating and Deviation are still important, but there are no requirements for these with regard to Stage 3. Just know that the better the...better. Again, the only requirement is to go and play the Suspect Ladder. Doug, Aeolus and I will take care of the hard part. You just go mix it up. edit: here is the formula we used to weight for final Stage 3 SEXP *(Rating (4SkyminSEXP + 3.5GarchompSEXP + 3LatiosSEXP + 1.5ManaphySEXP + LatiasSEXP))** We decide to ignore Deviation here, as per X-Act's input __________________ You haven't trolled till you've trolled in real life. Read A Mullet's Tale for reference if you haven't yet! Last edited by Jumpman16; Aug 24th, 2009 at 4:53:43 PM.

May 17th, 2009, 8:25:21 PM	#2
Aeolus humber Administrator Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,515 St. Louis	We will not be releasing the actual formula that will be used to compute scores at this time. It is only important that you understand the conceptual framework we will be using to determine the voter pool. Experience with the suspects is paramount. Experience with the most contentious suspects is most important. It is also important to realize that there will be a minimum Suspect Exp set for each and every Pokemon. Do not fail to meet that particular minimum on any single suspect if you want voting rights... neglect nobody! In the end, only objective criteria will be used... so no impassioned pleas, special permission, or status entitlements will count. Make a deliberate effort to learn as much as you can by playing on the test ladder, and you will be just fine when it comes time to release who made the voting cut. Have fun! Last edited by Aeolus; May 17th, 2009 at 9:47:43 PM.

May 18th, 2009, 1:56:09 AM	#3
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,663 Malta	I'm posting this just to notify my fellow admins that if I can help on this, I'm offering my help. (However, do realise that my time zone is different from yours.) __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet!

May 18th, 2009, 6:05:03 PM	#5
DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms Administrator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,359 Houston, TX	The new Stage 3 Suspect Ladder is now open for business! Good luck battling with some of your old favorites or hated enemies, whichever the case may be. I'm looking forward to the feedback and commentary in this thread. caelum edit: As always, this thread is to be devoid of theorymon and any comments should be based solely on your experiences with the Suspect Ladder. __________________ My Art Thread: ArtJustArt - The Art of DougJustDoug Last edited by Caelum; May 18th, 2009 at 7:52:30 PM. Reason: hope doug doesn't mind, jump always points this out but forgot this time^__^

May 18th, 2009, 6:27:54 PM	#9
J-Bones Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 546 A Place in Florida	Well, good ol' SD Yache Chomp is back... One thing I predict is at the end, many of votes votes will end up as "If A is voted OU, then I vote B OU" Just a thought. __________________ Yo

May 18th, 2009, 2:05:19 AM	#4
Blue Kirby Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,562 I'll have my guy call your guy.	To reflect the importance of this stage of the Suspect testing process, Battling 101 is running a Suspect edition of its usual tutoring rounds. This time around, it is only open to people who want help traversing the Suspect Ladder in order to secure a voting position. Everyone who is selected to participate will be paired up with a tutor, and you will work together in order to both maximize your odds of qualifying. You can be assured that whoever you are paired with will be helping you out for the entire testing period - you'll finally have someone to bounce ideas off and help you determine quickly what's going to work and what isn't. If you feel you could use the help, then make sure you head on over to the Battling 101 Round 41 sign up thread, which is located here. Best of luck everybody!

May 18th, 2009, 6:26:48 PM	#8
Manzinator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7	Already started playing, really fun, but im gettign slaughtered :P

May 18th, 2009, 6:40:59 PM	#12
Diana Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 466 color-coordinating with a starter	Really, it's early to say things, but I'm seeing a lot of dragons with scarf, which is taking a bit to get used to. Every match of mine has had one so far. __________________ <+Coronis> is Diana Diana <+Coronis> the diana that had thos fronteir records <+Coronis> omg <+Coronis> can i has your autograph

May 18th, 2009, 6:47:55 PM	#13
pi face Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 94	where's Wobbuffet?

May 18th, 2009, 6:55:55 PM	#14
Manzinator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7	EDIT: After playing a bit more, the Deoxys speed ties are really annoying, and really says who wins. Garchomp isn't very scary anymore with Scizor's bullet punch taking out half his HP. Latios seems a bit too overwhelming, unless you have one too. Skymin is good, but not really game-Breakingly powerful, as SR weak and abundance of ice + priority keeps him from destroying everything. Last edited by Manzinator; May 18th, 2009 at 11:52:37 PM.

May 18th, 2009, 7:00:54 PM	#15
reyscarface I am justice Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,564 I'll take a potato chip... and eat it!	First impression: Deoxys and Metagross leads are EVERYWHERE. Out of 15~ battles, 14 were Deos + Grosses, 1 being a Shaymin. Second Impression: Every team has at least 2 Dragons and 2 Steels, if not, then theres a Mamoswine and/or a weavile. Third Impression: 85% Of the teams i have seen are tremendously weak to SD Scizor, mainly thanks to no Rotom woo. __________________ \|Espada Ulquiorra\| - Click here

May 18th, 2009, 7:08:35 PM	#16
franky folgorio is a noob Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,650	Usually around UU but I went to OU Suspect for the first time but man Steels + Dragons + Dragon check. Those are the three pokemon I see simultaneously. I do agree with Ray that SD Scizor is troublesome, not many are prepapred. Speaking of Rotom-C, I haven't seen any Stall Teams yet and I can see why with all these overwhelming offense.

May 18th, 2009, 7:15:53 PM	#17
foibles Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 900 Portland, OR	I'm getting REALLY good results with a simple latios+garchomp combo with their respectively useful choice items and +speed natures. It's hard to beleive that garchomp was once OU after battling without him for so long. __________________ Pearl FC: 0001 4944 7927 \| The Marina \| Rules For Battle \| Platinum FC: 2106 4532 8390 Join #smogonwifi on irc.synirc.net and help turn wifi into a slightly cooler place. If you don't know how you can look at this. Do you want real invisible text? Ditch white, and go for f5f5ff instead!

May 18th, 2009, 7:19:18 PM	#18
Genny is much too bright Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,676 Where the Sun finally sets	Are people usually running Adamant or Jolly on their Garchomps? I'm still running the same old Adamant Yache Chomp, yet it seems like I'm losing every time it's Chomp vs. Chomp. __________________ <Xia> t + eam = dragons <tennisace> its like a handcuffed puppy trying to swim <+shade> general empoleon led many a piplup to death <+shade> in WW1 <~WildEep> how much rye could a Raichu chew if a Raichu could chew rye? <Loki> ya ironic that you guys are complaining about badgeholder attitude Fuzznip: I'm the fun nazi.

May 18th, 2009, 7:23:52 PM	#20
foibles Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 900 Portland, OR	I'd say that jolly is probably the better nature for garchomp if you're not using a scarf. It insures speed ties with other garchomp for the most part, plus outspeeds base 100 pokemon (manaphy mostly), even if they have +speed natures. __________________ Pearl FC: 0001 4944 7927 \| The Marina \| Rules For Battle \| Platinum FC: 2106 4532 8390 Join #smogonwifi on irc.synirc.net and help turn wifi into a slightly cooler place. If you don't know how you can look at this. Do you want real invisible text? Ditch white, and go for f5f5ff instead!

May 18th, 2009, 7:25:51 PM	#21
Zepar Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 215 Under your bed.	I am having some fun with Roserade, everyone is running Deoxys-S for a lead.

May 18th, 2009, 7:31:12 PM	#22
reyscarface I am justice Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,564 I'll take a potato chip... and eat it!	Paranoid, how is Deoxys set-up bait? It has taunt... __________________ \|Espada Ulquiorra\| - Click here

May 18th, 2009, 7:42:00 PM	#24
Abacus Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 232	My only real observation so far: SD yache-chomp is not nearly as good with Latios and Latias around.

May 18th, 2009, 7:45:04 PM	#25
august we're the locals who went postal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,373 call it treason while you can	My first impression: Fire Punch Deoxys e is having a field day with cocky Scizors looking for a free Pursuit / U Turn. Also 3HKOs Metagross so it cant switch in too much. __________________ why am i so INCONSISTENT <Siphai> mre is the crotchety old grampa of pokemon