New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4

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darkie

darkie

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Discussion Rules:

1: Use the readable format to display your movesets or EV spreads. An example would be:

Pokemon Name:(Adding pictures may make it easier to read and visually appealing, however, all pics must come from here)
Moveset Name:
Move 1:
Move 2:
Move 3:
Move 4:
Item:
Ability:
Nature(s):
EVs: Ordered HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

Description of the set explaining what it is capable of, damage calcs...etc

2: Do not repeat movesets already mentioned in previous posts. If you do not know if a moveset has already been mentioned use the "Search this Thread" before simply posting.

3: Note that this thread is for sets that you've actually tried at least a few times, not something that "might work". If you think something has potential, you can be bothered to use it before subjecting everyone else to it.

4: If it's not obvious at first glance, say what tier you're planning to use something in.

5: This is for competitive, serious movesets only. Don't post joke sets.

6: Post a description along with your moveset. This should be obvious.

7: If another Pokemon does the set better, don't post it. This means don't post things like Toxic Stall Infernape, etc.

Failure to follow the rules will result in your post being deleted and possibly infracted. This thread will now be under close moderator surveillance so I recommend actually following the rules, especially rule 3.

Thanks.
 
Ok i guess i will start the thread with a set i discovered in the LNT of yesterday, and have been using it all time today, and it works very very awesomely!

raikou.png

Moveset Name: LO Anti-Counters (Yeah, crappy name)
Raikou @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Signal Beam

Believe it or not, this thing saved my ass in the finals.
Ok, this set is made to beat the things that usually come in Raikou, with the obvious exception of Blissey lol.

With this set, Raikou can beat both Swampert and Celebi, 2 things that usually work as a defensive core for the opponent and think they are safe facing this beast. Substitute helps for the people that cant predict anything, but it works as a pivot too, making Swampert and company think that Raikou is the common CM version with HP Ice.

Here are some calculations:

Raikou Thunderbolt vs 4/0 -sp def Nature Salamence
328 Atk vs 176 Def & 332 HP (95 Base Power): 247 - 292 (74.40% - 87.95%)

Raikou can OHKO -Sp Def Salamence (which is the most common Salamence since most want the defense to survive bullet punches) 92.4% of the time with SR up. Theres no need for HP Ice xD

Raikou Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Neutral Nature Breloom
328 Atk vs 140 Def & 262 HP (95 Base Power): 155 - 183 (59.16% - 69.85%)

Again, Raikou shows that it doesnt need HP Ice to beat common things, by Substituting on the Spore, Raikou can easily 2HKO Poison Heal Breloom!

Raikou HP Grass vs 252/40 Neutral Nature Swampert
328 Atk vs 226 Def & 404 HP (70 Base Power): 384 - 452 (95.05% - 111.88%)

Sure OHKO with SR in field, Raikou is a beast xD

Raikou Signal Beam vs 252/96 Neutral Nature Celebi
328 Atk vs 260 Def & 404 HP (75 Base Power): 356 - 420 (88.12% - 103.96%)

So yeah, Raikou has a 100% chance of OHKO against a Celebi with large Sp Def investment, TOTAL POWER!


I think these calcs are the most useful ones right now, if you need some other calc tell me, it doesnt bother me to do them xD

Calc Edits:

Raikou Thunderbolt vs 252/112 +Sp Def Nature Dragonite
328 Atk vs 290 Def & 386 HP (95 Base Power): 151 - 178 (39.12% - 46.11%)

90% of 2HKO counting SR AND Leftovers, so if Dragonite switches into a Thunderbolt is going down, if it comes in the Substitute is going down too, and im using the Support Nite here, which doesnt even run EQ, so Raikou has it on its favor ^_^
 
dialga_438 said:
Can you do TB vs. a bulky Dragonite please ?
Click to expand...

Against 252 Hp/ 0 sp.def neutral Dragonite: 48.70% - 57.25%, a sure 2HKO with SR.

Against the calm support Dragonite listed in the analysis: 36.36% - 42.60%, good chances of a 2HKO if it switches into SR.

Although, in both the cases, if Dragonite comes on the substitute it can possibly outstall Raikou with roost, letting it die from life orb recoil (Dragonite doesn't even need to break the sub).

Definitely a good set Rey, the only problem I see is its durability: between life orb, stealth rock, substitute and possibly sandstorm, that thing is going to last 2-3 turns in most cases.
 
ReyScarface said:
Raikou Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Neutral Nature Breloom 328 Atk vs 140 Def & 262 HP (95 Base Power): 155 - 183 (59.16% - 69.85%)
Click to expand...

What about Signal Beam? I'm thinkin' it might ohko.


Anyway here comes another of mine:

Lead Clefable
-Trick
-Protect
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Beam
Flame Orb
Magic Guard
Calm
252hp 140def 116sp.atk

Always Ohko's Salamence, Always 2hko's Aerodactyl leads, Breaks down Hippowdon and many other Physical Attackers with Flame Orb, with enough time for setting up Stealth Rock. Can Protect from Fake Out then always survives Lead Ape's Close Combat, and hopefully blocks Azelf's explosion (tricking for the sash is a decent move). Jirachi or Bronzong tricking you is a bad idea too.
 
Not sure if this was even seen before the last thread died.

dpffb448.png
@Leftovers/Salac Berry/Fist Plate
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
Nature: Modest
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Aura Sphere
-Shadow Ball

I'm really surprised this very basic, very effective set is not listed in the analysis, or used more often. Lucarios scares many Pokemon with the threat of Close Combat, and Sword Dance, so it easily creates switches, giving it the chance to setup a Substitute. Once you have a Substitute up, your opponent will be in for a lot of trouble. If something like Cresselia switches into you, you've hit pay dirt, being able to setup one Calm Mind behind a Substitute and other as you're hit with a very weak Psychic.

If they decide to go for Blissey after your first Calm Mind, they're screwed. Blissey is easily 2HKOed after two Calm Minds, and will struggle to break your Substitutes, barring Flamethrower/Seismic Toss. Lucario can afford to eat a Flamethrower as well, to setup another Calm Mind.

This pairs well with Screens from Latias, and as an Offensive partner with Gyarados. With Screens up, Lucario has many more Pokemon it can setup on, easily packing multiple Calm Minds before sweeping.

I've used mostly Leftovers, but Salac Berry can work if you're content on using Lucario as an all, or nothing sweeper. He definitely benefits from the speed boost. Fist Plate is an option to score some assured 2HKOs with Aura Sphere. The reason Modest is used over Timid is that this Lucario wants power, and can't afford the massive drop by running a +Speed nature.
 
Here is a very customizable Rotom I've been fiddling around with for a while:

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
252 HP/212 Spd/44 SpA
Timid
-Substitute
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball/HP Fighting/HP Ground
-Toxic/Will O Wisp/Overheat

I've been using this Rotom with some really positive results. It does a great job in harassing stall and putting a stop against offensive teams, and it really helps wear down your opponents team.

Rotom causes switches extremely easily, so Substitute is an ideal set up move to scout or give you multiple hits. Substitute is a great move against many stall oriented pokemon as well, as many try to status Rotom instead of attacking it.

Once your Substitute is up, you can react in whatever manner seems to work best with the moves that you feel will work well. Thunderbolt is probably one of the best choice, as it helps you handle bulky waters (Starmie, a rapid spinner in particular is useful to take out), and is a solid attack to deal damage against various pokemon. This Rotom also handles Gyarados pretty well, and even after a Dragon Dance and with a Life Orb, Gyarados cannot 1hko Rotom after SR and Rotom can KO back with Thunderbolt.

The next slot is very customizable, and you should choose a move you feel would work best for your team. Shadow Ball is another great STAB that helps hit opposing Ghosts or Psychics. The coverage is also pretty good. HP Fighting is a useful move simply because it hits Tyranitar and Weavile very hard, and it helps hit Magnezone who would otherwise wall the T-Bolt/Shadow Ball combination. However, STAB Thunderbolt will hit other targets just as hard as a SE HP Fighting. HP Ground is another useful option for hitting Heatran and Magnezone with 4x damage, and also hits Electric types that might otherwise cause trouble.

There are many choices for the final slot. Toxic is a very useful move to use in conjunction with Toxic, allowing you to beat many kinds of Blissey and wear down on many other tanks that want to try to take you on. Thanks to Substitute and Rotom's high speed, Toxic stalling is a very viable method of weakening your opponent's team. Will-O-Wisp is another great move that can cripple a physical attacker like Tyranitar or Scizor, and also helps remove the durability of walls. If offense is more useful, Overheat is a great option that provides great coverage with T-Bolt/Shadow Ball and will actually kill pokemon that Rotom is meant to counter, like Scizor.

Max HP means that Blissey is never breaking your Sub, and most efficiently boosts his ability to take hits. 212 Speed and Timid allows him to outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, Timid non-Scarf Heatran, Adamant Lucario, and many other threats. The rest of the EVs are put into SpA for some pop, though it can be put in other areas as well, since the slight increase in power does not help Rotom do that much more.


Rotom-W can be used as well, since Hydro Pump can help deter many of Rotom's common switch ins. And behind a Sub, the lower accuracy is not nearly as damaging.
 
@ Haunter - you are right, the durability can be improved, but take into account that Substitute is just and JUST for an important scenario, like against something you are 100% sure that will try to status you or just if you predict a switch and dont want to risk a NVE move or something, Substitute is still the best option since Raikou's movepool could be somewhat better lol.

@ Pollux-Castor and Tab - Well, a NVE Thunderbolt has 71.25 Base Power vs Breloom, while Signal Beam has 75 Base Power, which means that Signal Beam can beat Breloom easilier (poison heal and that kind of things). I will add the calcs later.

Thanks for the help ^_^

Raikou Signal Beam against the same Breloom
328 Atk vs 140 Def & 262 HP (75 Base Power): 164 - 193 (62.60% - 73.66%)

So yeah, you win like 5% more average damage. If you need to KO it then Signal Beam is the way to go, if you want to keep it secret, T-bolt wont do a lot of damage less :p
 
Regarding that Raikou, the set is almost identical to the all-out offensive CM set that was very common in the first round of UU teating. (Timid LO CM/Tbolt/Signal Beam/HP Grass.)

Since Sub is used so rarely and hampers its durability, wouldn't CM be a better option anyway? It can still pose as a sub-CM Raikou from the get-go, doesn't lose so much HP from the sub, and also can sweep late game once Blissey/Magnezone/Rotom are gone.
 
Uh, sorry, but i didnt see any Raikou like this one, i made it in 5 minutes before the LNT, and it worked marvels. I checked on the Analysis and on the other Creative moveset threads, but i didnt find anything comparable to this one.
Also, this raikou is meant for the OU play, not UU.

CM is nice, yes. But it doesnt help in key situations, like vs a statuser, which can hamper Raikou's ability to sweep for all the battle.
 
Here's a surprisingly effective Wall-Breaking Azelf set that I've been using over at the CAP Server:

dpmfa482.png

Azelf @ Leftovers
Naive
252 Att, 252 Spe, 6 Sp Att
~Substitute
~Zen Headbutt
~Fire Blast
~Ice Punch/Grass Knot

At CAP, the most commonly used defensive Pokemon are Arghonaut (Water/Fighting) , Revenankh (Fighting/Ghost), Fidgit (Ground/Poison), Skarmory, and Blissey. In case you don't know, Argo has the ability Unaware and Rev has access to STAB Shadow Sneak. The way this works is Substitute on something that will switch and take it from there. Often times the switch in is Blissey, who takes around 40% from Zen Headbutt. Azelf is safe from Toxic and Thunderwave and has to worry about taking Physical hits. This set makes taking out Blissey pretty easy without having to blow yourself up. So because of Zen Headbutt, the opponent thinks Physical set and sends in Skarm, who eats Fire Blast. Neither of the aforementioned Created Pokemon will like to take hits from Zen Headbutt, especially when Azelf is guaranteed at least two of them if he's sitting behind a Sub. Furthermore, Celebi takes approximately 55-60% dmage from Fire Blast and cannot harm Azelf with status, Leech Seed, or weak Psychics or Grass Knots.

As for the last slot, it's all dependent on whether Swampert proves a problem. If not, Ice Punch is great for dealing with the Dragons, all of which are outsped and are OHKOd (barring Latias who is 2HKOd, again, not a problem from behind a Sub, and Kingdra, who is altogether uncommon at CAP).

I wouldn't expect this set to be very handy outside of CAP, but as there is no New and Creative Moveset Thread in the CAP Subforum, posting here was most appropriate. Anyone who plays at CAP, I'd like to know what you think of this set. If you're not familiar with that metagame don't bother criticizing this as you can't possibly know how things are played there. Thanks.
 
@ Evil Mario: What does Lucario have over Jirachi??

@ Rey: You could just use Calm Mind on the switch to Swampert, kill their counter, then sweep. I think I like that better since you usually wouldn't come in on a status user. The most common ones are Rotom and Blissey anyway. If you do use Calm Mind, you can use Shadow Ball > Signal Beam to kill Rotom-A also, and with LO and Calm Mind you may even OHKO Celebi.
 
You are OHKOing Celebi with Signal Beam, even a sp defence bulky one, always. CM is not used because you dont win any important OHKOs, and usually substitute helps scouting.
 
ReyScarface said:
You are OHKOing Celebi with Signal Beam, even a sp defence bulky one, always. CM is not used because you dont win any important OHKOs, and usually substitute helps scouting.
Click to expand...

You obviously never face any Rotom when you play. There won't be as many on wifi so it would work great there.

Either way I think Ray is right because Sub allows you to not worry about making the wrong prediction. He won't have a problem with Electivire or some faster ground type like Scarf Flygon. And like he already said blocking status is a good thing. If Blissey switches in when he uses Sub he may be able to paralyze her with the free turns before he switches to an appropriate counter.
 
I made calcs (taking into account SR and sub on the switch), and taking into account a common spread for Rotom-A, my Raikou spread, Average damages, etc. Raikou will beat Rotom 1 in 1

Yes, Raikou will be damaged a lot (surviving with like 5%-15%), but yeah, Raikou can beat the Rotoms lol
 
This is a response from the previous thread.

I was thinking the other day about which OU/UU pokemon could be useful in Ubers, and I started thinking about the 3 most common leads in Ubers: Scarf Mewtwo, Deoxys-s, and Scarf Darkrai. So a pokemon that can counter Psychics, doesn't fear sleep, and can hit dark types...this is what I came up with. I've tested it out in Ubers and found it to be extremely effective at neutralizing leads, crippling switch ins, and picking off low health people later in the game with Sucker Punch.

UBER ANTI-LEAD

Honchkrow@Focus Sash
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant/Insomnia

-Confuse Ray
-Sucker Punch
-Night Slash
-Superpower

Comments: Sucker Punch for a priority STAB SE attack on both Mewtwo and Deoxys-s. Night Slash hits Deoxys-s if it tries to set up or uses Extremespeed (outspeeding Sucker Punch and causing it to fail). Both will OHKO if he's not using Focus Sash, and 2HKO with, while Extremespeed fails to 2HKO Honchkrow. Insomnia prevents sleep from Dark Void and Superpower always OHKOs Darkrai.

Superpower also OHKOs Tyranitar and Lucario and offers a high chance to 2HKO Dialga if he comes in with Sash intact. Mewtwo has a low chance of being OHKO'd by Night Slash and a high chance of being OHKO'd by Sucker Punch.

For the last slot, Confuse Ray can be used to harass whoever comes in and tries to set up on Honchkrow (which, in all likelyhood will be a SD Rayquaza, RP Groudon or something as they'll be wary of sucker punch). It allows you to potentially wreak havoc on the opponent's team, especially with a little luck.

Damage Calcs:
Deoxys-S Extremespeed: (35.89% - 42.33%) Never 2HKOs.
Deoxys-S Superpower: (53.47% - 63.12%) Always 2HKOs, but Sucker Punch has priority.
Night Slash vs Deoxys-S: (122.82% - 145.23%)
Sucker Punch vs Deoxys-S: (140.25% - 165.15%)
Superpower vs 52 HP Darkrai: (115.65% - 136.73%)
Night slash vs 0 Def/HP Mewtwo: (84.99% - 100.28%) Slight chance to OHKO, more with extra crit chance.
Sucker Punch vs 0 Def/HP Mewtwo: (95.75% - 113.88%) 74% chance to OHKO.
Drill Peck vs 0 HP/Def Shaymin-S: (100.88% - 119.65%) Guarunteed OHKO, barring flinching.
Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/Def Shaymin-S: (58.06% - 68.62%) Guarunteed 2HKO and no possibility of flinches.

Superpower vs 0 HP/Def Dialga: 266 - 314 (78.01% - 92.08%)
-1 Sucker Punch vs 0HP/Def Dialga: 45 - 53 (13.20% - 15.54%)
Click to expand...
 I'll have to test this out, but I'm more concerned about Groudon leads, as well as Deoxys-S. Groudon gets to do it's own thing (Confuse Ray helps, but isn't sufficient), and Deoxys-S isn't stopped from getting 2 Hazards (more if you blindly Sucker Punch, as Deo-S has no problem with being sacrificed for hazards). You also forgot that Superpower drops attack, so you should live through 2 from Deo-S (if it even chooses to attack). I don't see Focus Sash being much use outside of Mewtwo, who doesn't like Sucker Punch one bit (it'll hit harder than Night Slash). My concern with it is Darkrai using Trick and surviving your Superpower (considering the opponenet is smart enough to know there's Insomnia). While I do believe it can work, the potential set up it gives the opponent is not something I would want to gamble with. Taunt would be a better option in that last slot, at least only allowing one thing Hazard from Deoxys-S while allowing you to attack with Night Slash/Sucker Punch.
Click to expand...
Trick on Darkrai would allow it to survive, however it would also doom it to 1HP or death depending on if it switches, at which point it's useless as anyone can revenge kill it and it will instantly die with any entry hazard.

I've never seen a Groudon lead, but between Confuse Ray and 1-2 Night Slashes, it will be rather damaged and possibly unable to setup SR (of course this depends on luck.) And a confused Groudon is just begging for a Kyogre/Rayquaza switch in on your part.

Deo-S is setting up stuff whether you like it or not. As far as I've seen, letting it get up SR and 1 layer of Spikes while keeping your sash intact is a better option than taunting it (which is why I removed taunt as an option over Confuse Ray). This allows you to have an unOHKOable harasser to deal with whoever comes in.

Let's say Specs or Scarf Kyogre comes in. Sucker Punch does (49.56% - 58.94%) (under the safe assumption that there is no defensive investment) giving you a large chance to 2HKO it, and letting you get another Sucker Punch in on whatever else comes in. It's extremely effective.
 
I posted this the night the last thread died, so I think I'll just re-post it lol.

tyranitar.png

Tyranitar @ Liechi Berry
~Sandstream
~Jolly
EV's: 4 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spd
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Substitute

SubDance Tyranitar, a set I came up with and have been testing with great success. It comes in on a resisted attack, Dragon Dances on the switch, subs down to a Liechi Boost and sweeps. Simple. Obviously this works best with Magnezone support, or else you'll get stopped by Lucario/Scizor/Skarmory all the time. But once those threats are removed, there's really not much to stop this thing.
 
I would suggest looking at Aqua Tail going over either Crunch or Stone Edge. That way, the only resists commonly seen in OU are Empoleon and Breloom.
 
the t-tar set looks promising, but t-tar creates alot of switch outs. Leftovers could be a good option to recover some sub damage.
 
Nidoking is a good lead...

Nidoking @Focus Sash
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 60 HP/252 Atk/196 Spd
Jolly Nature

-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Taunt
-Toxic Spikes

Holy shit on a dick sandwich! No one saw this coming! Do you think I'm kidding, I'm quite serious. Nidoking actually makes a great Toxic Spikes lead in OU mainly due to its Attack and Speed stats coupled with good typing and a better movepool. Nidoking's 318/190/185 defenses allow him to survive an Infernape's Fake Out and Fire Blast, something that Roserade or Foretress cannot do. A STAB Earthquake coming from 283 Attack stat 2HKOs max HP Tyranitar and Metagross (both are a nuetral Def nature), something Tentacruel cannot do safely. A 280 Speed and Taunt can help prevent a Smeargle from plowing your team over and that is something that Smeargle itself cannot do. That extra Speed helps Nidoking outplace a good number of leads for Taunt and kill setup while its offensive side helps it dish out hits easier, Nidoqueen on the other hand may just end up falling short on some KOs oh and it pretty much needs max Speed to outplace Smeargle :/.

If Nidoking can outspeed other leads or just kill them/take hits from them, why is the Focus Sash the preferred item you ask? Well, Heatran, Aerodactyl, Azelf, Metagross and Gyarados love to OHKO Nidoking so I think that pretty much sums up that question.

Nidoking clearly has some large advantages over other Toxic Spikes leads and oh, that Sandstorm immunity may come in handy.
 
rampaging_tyranitar said:
SubDance Tyranitar, a set I came up with and have been testing with great success. It comes in on a resisted attack, Dragon Dances on the switch, subs down to a Liechi Boost and sweeps. Simple. Obviously this works best with Magnezone support, or else you'll get stopped by Lucario/Scizor/Skarmory all the time. But once those threats are removed, there's really not much to stop this thing.
Click to expand...

I would Sub on the switch instead, so you can make sure you're not forced to switch out your DD on a Scizor, Scarf Flygon, etc. Plus you might be able to feign a Boah set, getting you a free extra DD as they switch out their x4 Ice or Fire weak. (You'd need Leftovers for that, but if you got that extra turn it'd be well worth it.)
 
Steinhauser said:
I would Sub on the switch instead, so you can make sure you're not forced to switch out your DD on a Scizor, Scarf Flygon, etc. Plus you might be able to feign a Boah set, getting you a free extra DD as they switch out their x4 Ice or Fire weak. (You'd need Leftovers for that, but if you got that extra turn it'd be well worth it.)
Click to expand...

If you DD on the switch, then Scizor will be forced to Bullet Punch, and then you can switch in Magnezone and kill it with Hp Fire. If you Sub, then you'll lose 25% health to just damage Scizor with Stone Edge, and then you'll be forced out next turn. Of course, if it was Flygon then you would sub, it all just depends on how much knowledge you have of your opponents team at the time.


Abacus: If you lose either Crunch or Stone Edge for Aqua Tail, then you'll lose KO's on some important pokemon. Without Stone Edge you won't be able to get key KO's Salamence, Gyarados, and Zaptos, as well as you'll be losing your most powerful stab. Without Crunch you won't be able to hit Celebi, Rotom-A, Latias, Starmie, and other psychics for super effective damage. I've tested out Aqua Tail, and I've always gone back to the two stab attacks in the end because it's not really worth hitting Gliscor/Hippowdon for SE damage when it means losing against more common things.
 
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