|Sep 20th, 2009, 12:12:14 PM||#1|
just came to say hello
Team Sugarless GiRL (WC Finals vs. DawnBringer)
Hiya! Firstly, this is a joint RMT written by Earthworm and jumpluff about an offensive team. This team is what pulled me back into competitive Pokémon. Previously, I had stopped playing due to frustration with luck. This team reminded me why battling is fun, and even though I still only casually battle, this is a very special team~ The team most recently shone in its new and polished form in the World Cup IV, where EW used it to success against DawnBringer in the finals. With the advent of HG/SS, we decided to retire it on the wake of this victory. (I still play with it casually.) Please stick with this!
Introducing Team Sugarless GiRL!
For those wondering about the name, Sugarless GiRL is an album by a Japanese electro band, capsule. We decided to retain the capitalisation of the titles for accuracy. Also note that Heatran's nickname is too long for the server, so if we nicknamed him for ladder use, his name would be Melting point.
Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry * Welcome to my world
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Hidden Power Grass
This Heatran takes EQ from nearly all leads (barring some like Mamoswine), distributes burns, sets up Stealth Rock, and usually nets a kill on Swampert among others (Hidden Power Grass does not KO, but Will-o-Wisp + HP Grass does). We usually lead off with Will-o-Wisp or Stealth Rock, depending on the lead, then attack as necessary. No Earth Power means we're walled by lead Heatran, but otherwise this lead works very successfully. In August, Will-o-Wisp was seen on less than 6% of Heatran, but it works great, often crippling Salamence, Gyarados, Tyranitar, or other Pokémon which like to place immediate pressure on their opponents by setting up on their enemy leads.
Shuca Berry lets it get more than one turn against nearly all leads (except for Mamoswine and so forth), and for the ensuing Earthquake, this team has three Ground immunities and Lucario for revenging something like a severely weakened Aerodactyl.
Heatran can also be used to absorb sleep from Smeargle, Roserade, or any other sleeper such as Breloom which comes in mid-game, if it's still alive.
Lucario (M) @ Life Orb * Catch my breath
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
Standard Lucario, except Jolly. Most people don't like Jolly Lucario because it misses a few KOs, but this is made up amply by the fact that it beats Mamoswine, non-Scarf Rotom-A (one of the main reasons to include Crunch), Suicune, other Lucario, and anything designed to sit at 280 Speed to beat Adamant Lucario. This has swept many teams, and really, the extra Speed pays off enough to make it well worth it.
Setting up a game plan for Lucario is always useful. For instance, sometimes it is worth, given adequate knowledge of the opponent's team, letting Latias take a Draco Meteor, in order to give Lucario a free turn. Pokémon like Latias and Rotom are often Pursuited or taken out with Crunch, and with its 4x resistance to Dark-type moves, Lucario becomes an immediate threat to the opponent.
Latias (F) @ Life Orb * Sugarless GiRL
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire
- Grass Knot
There are only two problems with this Latias: the Speed point lost by carrying Hidden Power Fire, and the fact I'm walled by Heatran, which is taken care of by the rest of the team. This Latias has been so effective for us though that those are easily outweighed by the positives. Grass Knot is for Tyranitar and Swampert, which can get in the way of her teammates, and Hidden Power Fire is for Steel-types, especially Scizor. Life Orb allows her to change attacks while still doing a lot of damage, and Recover shakes off the Life Orb damage (and any other incurred).
It's surprising how many kills Latias actually gets. Provided it sits at reasonable health, it will survive a Bullet Punch if the opponent even selects that move, and score a KO on Scizor. Nothing really likes switching in on Dragon Pulse except Steel-types, which are almost all maimed by Hidden Power Fire.
Grass Knot does more than Surf against Tyranitar, as well, by 25 base power, a significant increase.
318 Atk vs 354 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 202 - 238 (50.00% - 58.91%)
318 Atk vs 354 Def & 404 HP (90 Base Power): 112 - 133 (27.72% - 32.92%)
The combination of Dragon Pulse + SR + Grass Knot does 90% minimum to this Tyranitar. (It actually does 96% on average.)
318 Atk vs 354 Def & 341 HP (120 Base Power): 202 - 238 (59.24% - 69.79%)
318 Atk vs 354 Def & 341 HP (90 Base Power): 112 - 133 (32.84% - 39.00%)
Even with no Stealth Rock, this Tyranitar is OHKO'd. In August, 72% of Tyranitar were running spreads close to 252/0 and 0/0.
Lucario and Latias have strong offensive synergy. She and Lucario cover each other's weaknesses both offensively (Blissey, Tyranitar...) and defensively, and so, with some prediction, the two have pulled off some very tight matches on their own.
As the metagame has developed, Latias has found ways around two of her main problems, Scizor and Tyranitar—not without new ones arising, however—and proven to be a stellar Pokémon. I personally enjoy Latias's influence on OU and hope that everyone else agrees with me. Latias for OU!
Jirachi @ Leftovers * Starry Sky
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold (+Def -Atk)
- Calm Mind
This Jirachi is, well, the star of the team! At first, I used to play very conservatively with Jirachi, but I realised introducing it in the mid-game can actually be useful. Most people expect physical Jirachi as well! Wish support is not only incredible for Jirachi itself but for its fellow teammates. Psychic and Thunderbolt is an old standard with great neutral coverage. Jirachi is designed to tank hits while statting up and Wishing as required. It can also take status decently, although Gliscor is on the team to ease this pressure. It can also switch in on strong physical attacks that the rest of the team does not like switching in on over and over.
Calm Mind Jirachi dismantles stall and hurts offense pretty badly, too. Its main problems are Trick, being caught by Salamence or others while on low health (which can be dealt with by team support, obviously), Magnezone and Heatran when it doesn't have enough CMs (although it can usually CM up on Magnezone if its HP is high), and Calm Mind Latias. Yes, the lack of Flash Cannon leaves it fairly helpless against Tyranitar, but this team does not struggle with Tyranitar, and if Jirachi has to go down, it can at least do some damage, net a paralysis, or pull off a Wish for its teammates. I like being able to hit Rotom and sort-of Magnezone much more. It also hits Gengar harder, as well as Breloom, Machamp, Infernape, Lucario, and Swampert (although Grass Knot covers that usually). Latias usually weakens Tyranitar a fair bit, so Flash Cannon isn't necessary, and Earthquake is currently surprisingly uncommon.
Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers * Spider
252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Jolly (+Spe -SpA)
Gliscor absorbs Thunder Wave, a move this team previously had trouble with (so Jirachi was usually delegated to take the paralysis). This set beats stall pretty handily, checks most Lucario, and can stall problem Pokémon out itself efficiently, with Toxic, Taunt to block recovery or set-up, and Roost to shrug off damage taken while stalling. Also of note, it can switch on certain Pokémon like Life Orb HP Grass Jolteon and Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Earthquake them. These Pokémon were very bothersome for the previous iteration of this team, and Gliscor makes for a good check.
Rotom-w @ Choice Scarf * Secret Paradise
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
Rotom-w used to be Rotom-c, but the Special Attack drops from Leaf Storm were mostly problematic. Hydro Pump still hits Tyranitar and other Rock and Grounds, while also covering Heatran (important, due to being locked in). Trick lets it cripple Blissey or anything else causing problems for the team. Rotom-c was also previously Modest and 252 SpA, but it was too frail, so bulkier EVs help it switch on its resistances while still maintaining decent power. Also, the very useful Ghost typing can also take the Explosions that Latias seems to bait.
Rotom-w also lures out Choiced Dark attacks from the likes of Scizor and Tyranitar, so if caught in a compromised situation, Lucario can take advantage of the circumstances!
Team Sugarless GiRL has been really, really fun to play with! There are also a bunch of interesting somewhat serendipitous things about the team, like its immunity to Toxic Spikes. All teams have their problems, and this team is no exception to this rule, but the changes made (Gliscor > bulky DD Roost Salamence and Rotom-w > Rotom-c) have helped it deal with things it previously had to play around precariously. When played properly, it matches up well against stall, and takes on opposing offense and balance teams. Next comes a threat list and a summary of the ways we deal with certain Pokémon, with note of the ones we have to be careful with.
Thank you very much for reading this RMT!
Last edited by jumpluff; Sep 21st, 2009 at 5:50:11 AM.
|Sep 20th, 2009, 12:12:20 PM||#2|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Threat List (or How to Handle Threats)
-Initial Switch: Scizor can't safely come in on anything on the team besides maybe Rotom-W so I usually don't have to switch, but Gliscor makes a good switch because it resists U-turn and is not Stealth Rock weak.
-SD Variant: This can be troublesome, but it usually cannot set up on anything on the team. If it does, I can always Trick with Rotom to lock it into something Jirachi can handle. If Heatran is still around then this isn't a problem.
-CB Variant: This usually can't come in much, Latias often gets a surprise KO on it and the only thing it really threatens is Rotom with Pursuit. Everything on the team can threaten it back.
-Initial Switch: My usual plan for dealing with Salamence is to play around it with clever switches. Therefore it really depends on what it comes out on and whether the risk of going to say Latias is worth the reward.
-MixMence: Usually I just try to bring Latias in on not a Dragon move. Otherwise I take a Draco Meteor with a steel (hopefully) and then beat it with Gliscor or Jirachi or Rotom or Lucario's Extremespeed if it is low enough.
-DDMence: This needs to be worn down for me to beat it. Gliscor can Toxic it to do this. If I lure an Outrage then Jirachi, Heatran, or Lucario can take it on usually.
-SpecsMence: Predict around the Dragon and Fire moves, weaken it with Stealth Rock and finish with Latias or Lucario or Rotom.
-CBMence: Scout with Gliscor then Wish Gliscor back to health with Jirachi, usually.
-Initial Switch: I usually switch to Latias or sometimes Gliscor if I think it will use Earth Power. Jirachi can take the moves that Latias can't, and can pass Wishes to Latias so it can switch in without fear most of the time.
-Lead Shuca/SashTran: I usually put up SR to scout the set in case it isn't one of these, then switch to Gliscor or Latias and play around it until it switches or faints. If absolutely necessary something can be sacrificed to get Lucario in, and Rotom-w has Hydro Pump to do some serious damage if it uses Earth Power or Explosion.
-ScarfTran: Just predict around it and weaken it with Thunderbolt (20% paralysis rate from Jirachi), Dragon Pulse, and Stealth Rock. Usually not as much of a problem as some other sets.
-SpecsTran: Same as ScarfTran except Lucario can beat it after a sac.
-LO Tran: Usually the best move is to either sacrifice something to get Lucario or Gliscor in or to play cleverly with Latias and/or Heatran if it is still around. Rotom-w has Hydro Pump if it is low and can come in on Explosion.
-SubHeatran: Latias' Dragon Pulse can break non-bulky substitutes. This usually requires a sacrifice to take down.
-Initial Switch: Rotom-w or Jirachi usually. If Heatran is out against it, I often stay in to Will-o-wisp so that Jirachi can set up on it easily if required.
-Leftovers DD: Jirachi and Rotom-w can take this, Rotom-w is the first switch.
-Life Orb DD: Rotom-w is the main check to this.
-Restalk: Jirachi because it resists SR and has Leftovers.
-Thunder Wave or Substitute: Jirachi beats the vast majority of these.
-Initial Switch: Heatran usually makes a good switch if it is still around. Gliscor, Jirachi, and Rotom-w can come in if I am expecting moves that won't cripple them.
-Scarf: Heatran or Gliscor is usually safe. Jirachi is also a good option. Latias can come in on Thunderbolt and Lucario can come in on Shadow Ball.
-Restalk: Jirachi sets up on it, Gliscor sets up on it, Heatran can get rid of it.
-SubCharge Beam: I'm pretty sure Jirachi can beat this, otherwise I'll probably need to sac something before killing it off.
-Initial Switch: It depends what is out against Latias and what item it has. If Gliscor is out I'll usually risk Toxic for example, otherwise Jirachi or Heatran are good switches.
-Specs: Jirachi usually, or Latias if it isn't using a Dragon move. Rotom can take the trick if I expect it.
-Scarf: Same as above except usually easier to deal with.
-LO Sweeper: Jirachi handles this quite handily.
-CM Latias: I sometimes have to Trick with Rotom, other times I can Toxic it and beat it with Gliscor or beat it with Lucario.
-Initial Switch: Lucario and Gliscor make good switches for Tyranitar. Latias has Grass Knot so that if it comes in on a Dragon Pulse there is a high chance that the combination will KO it.
-CBTar: Lucario can come in on most moves, Gliscor or Latias can come in on the others.
-LO Tar: Get Lucario in on something then finish it.
-DDTar: Gliscor or Trick it with Rotom-W. Heatran can Will-o-wisp this as well.
-BOAH Variants: CM Jirachi beats non Fire move ones, otherwise Gliscor usually beats it.
-CurseTar: Lucario and Gliscor deal with this easily.
-Initial Switch: Heatran or Rotom-W can beat this pretty easily, otherwise Gliscor is alright.
-CBGross: Heatran (on MM), Jirachi (on MM), Gliscor (on EQ / Tpunch), Rotom-W (on EQ / Tpunch / Explosion).
-MixGross: Heatran comes in on HP Fire, Meteor Mash, or Grass Knot. Rotom-W does too!
-Initial Switch: Gliscor and Rotom-W handle this pretty well!
-SD: Gliscor and Rotom-W can both come in on most moves this will use and pose a pretty big threat. Mostly Gliscor.
-Specs: Gliscor or Jirachi. Latias comes in on Aura Sphere or Vacuum Wave.
-Initial Switch: Latias is usually good, the exception being U-turn. If I know it is physical I can go to Gliscor.
-MixApe: Latias, Rotom-W and Lucario can kill with speed and priority respectively.
-Physical Ape: Latias and Gliscor can come in on most moves, Rotom-W can come in on moves that aren't Fire type.
-ScarfApe: Just predict it and play around it.
-Initial Switch: Heatran, Jirachi, Gliscor, and Rotom-W are all decent initial switches into most moves Jirachi can make. Heatran in particular is excellent!
-Scarf Jirachi: Heatran and Rotom-W are good against this, Jirachi if it is locked into not Fire Punch and not Trick. Gliscor is sometimes alright.
-Expert Belt Jirachi: Heatran, Latias, Gliscor, Jirachi, and Rotom-W all fare quite well against some sets this can run. If it has Ice Punch and / or Fire Punch then Heatran and Rotom-W are once again the best against it.
-CM Jirachi: Heatran and Gliscor do well against this set. Rotom-W can trick if it comes out against not Substitute.
-Support Jirachi: Heatran, Gliscor, Rotom-W, and Jirachi can beat this. Rotom-W is not the best option in case of Thunder Wave or Wish Protect but it is there! Jirachi can set up on it.
-Initial Switch: Gengar is a problem. Sacrificing Heatran to get Jirachi or Rotom-W in is usually a good move.
-LO Gengar: I have to get Jirachi in on this usually. Alternatively, Lucario to Rotom-W works reasonably well as well.
-ScarfGengar: This is easier to deal with, Jirachi comes in on it safely and Heatran can come in too.
-SubGengar: Jirachi beats this too.
-Initial Switch: Latias and Heatran have Grass moves to KO this and Latias switches in fairly well.
-Standard Mixpert: Latias can come in and Grass Knot it. Heatran can HP Grass it if it is a lead. Otherwise, this can be worn down with clever play or by Tricking it or Toxicing it.
-CBPert: Just predict around it. I guess it can be a problem against someone with perfect prediction.
-Cursepert: Latias easily demolishes this. Rotom-W can trick it too if Latias is down. Jirachi has a reasonable shot at beating non Earthquake versions.
-Initial Switch: Jirachi is the safest. Lucario can come in on some moves safely.
-WishBliss: If Gliscor is out then it can Taunt this and beat it with ease, Lucario can come in on anything except Flamethrower safely, and Jirachi beats this one-on-one I believe.
-Non-wish Bliss: Same as above except Lucario isn't as safe, Jirachi wins for sure pretty much and Rotom-W has a good shot at Tricking Scarf onto it if required.
-Initial Switch: Heatran is the best switch for this. Latias is good against everything except Explosion from most Azelf, but they all have Explosion these days, so a Rotom-W switch is often required straight afterwards.
-Lead Azelf: I like to Fire Blast this every time but jumpluff seems to like Stealth Rock against it. Heatran is a good lead matchup as long as it doesn't miss with Fire Blast.
-NP Azelf: Since this is frail it can be shut down by Lucario or Rotom-W. Heatran makes a good switch too. Rotom-W is a good switch for predicted Explosions.
-Scarf Azelf: Heatran, Jirachi, and Rotom-W all handle this well.
-Initial Switch: Latias is good for not Ice Beam and Jirachi is good for not Hydro Pump or LO / Specs Surf.
-LO Starmie: I usually have to do some risky switching with Latias and Jirachi, or get Rotom-W in on it. Lucario can finish weakened Starmie.
-Rapid Spinner: No problem at all, Jirachi sets up on it and Rotom-W can come in and take it down.
-Choice Starmie: Latias, Jirachi, and Rotom-W cover this well as a combination.
-Initial Switch: Latias and Rotom-W make reasonable switches into Gliscor. I can come in with my own Gliscor if I don't think I will be hit by Taunt or Toxic.
-SD Gliscor: My Gliscor handles this as long as it doesn't know Ice Fang. If it does, Rotom-W can trick it. Latias can hurt it significantly or KO it if it is weakened a small amount.
-Stall Gliscor: Latias and Rotom-W can usually take this down without it doing too much damage. Gliscor can beat it sometimes, since this Gliscor has a little more Speed than most other Stall Gliscor.
-BP Gliscor: Attack it with Heatran if that's what is facing it, hopefully they won't bother using Taunt and Heatran can use Will-o-Wisp on whatever is BPed to. Lum Metagross won't be the recipient if the Gliscor user anticipates a Fire Blast from Heatran, Gyarados usually doesn't carry a Lum Berry (it usually has Leftovers I find), and +2/+2 Gyarados is considerably easier to play around I usually find (neutral to Extremespeed, 4x weakness to Electric, etc). If it is some other recipient, I'd just attempt to play around it as usual.
-Initial Switch: Jirachi can easily set up on this unless it is on low HP. Latias can handle most versions of Vaporeon easily so it makes a good switch too.
-WishProtect Vaporeon: Jirachi handles this very well. If for some reason it becomes a problem, Rotom-W and Latias can come in on it and beat it or stall it, and Lucario does a lot because it has frail defenses and it can't OHKO with Surf.
-SpecsVaporeon: This will probably do some damage with prediction, but can be handled easily if it is predicted correctly. Latias and Jirachi resist all of the moves it is likely to use I think.
-Initial Switch: I don't think many Pokemon on this team need to switch out of Magnezone in the first place, but if required Gliscor probably makes a good switch or Heatran if I am expecting Hidden Power Ice or Magnet Rise or something. Rotom-W or Jirachi for Explosion predictions.
-Substitute: The only way I can think of that this is going to get a Substitute is if I'm switching fearing Thunder Wave or something. I guess it is possible that it will survive something faster and Substitute too, but that is probably a waste of its HP because everything is going to do more than 25% to it except maybe Rotom-W and unboosted Jirachi against a Specially Defensive Magnezone. Jirachi sets up anyway, as long as there aren't any critical hits.
-Scarf: The only Pokemon this really threatens is Lucario, and only if it is already on low HP or gets a Def drop from Close Combat. No real issues here.
-Life Orb Variant: Handled in similar fashion to Substitute version except it can be more annoying.
-Initial Switch: Latias or Gliscor depending on the current situation. Jirachi or Heatran are possible candidates as well if I expect Hidden Power Ice.
-Defensive: Jirachi can set up on this unless it has Heat Wave and is out before Jirachi can Calm Mind, in which case Jirachi probably loses sometimes. If it has Roar then Latias can hopefully 2HKO it, otherwise maybe Gliscor can Toxic it or Rotom-W can Trick it.
-Offensive: Latias beats these pretty easily.
-Choiced: Can be a problem if used well, but with an immunity and two resistances to Electric, it can be handled well by this team even with just safe play.
-Initial Switch: Gliscor, Jirachi, and Rotom-W handle this pretty well. Being a defensive variant with a Psychic STAB, Jirachi makes the best switch into not DynamicPunch, and Rotom-W or Gliscor make good lures for other moves. It doesn't have an easy time switching into anything on the team in the first place, but being reasonably bulky it can come in after something faints and pose a threat to at least one core member of the team fairly easily.
-ResTalk: Jirachi can come in on a move other than DynamicPunch and threaten this with Psychic. Otherwise, just attacking it or Taunting with Gliscor is sufficient, because this takes a lot from most Pokemon on the team.
-Substitute: Breaking the Substitute with Gliscor is usually the best bet, then Jirachi can come in and finish it off usually. There often isn't a need to switch out of Machamp in the first place, but if there is (e.g. 90% Lucario vs 94% Machamp at the start of the turn early on in a match) then that's probably the best way of handling it.
-Initial Switch: Jirachi is the safest because it's so bulky, but when predicting a specific move then Latias can be used to bait Outrages and Rotom-W can trick it to lock it into something if necessary. It also depends on whether or not it is raining.
-DD Kingdra: Baiting Outrage is a reasonable strategy, if necessary then Latias can be sacrificed to avoid the baiting strategy being predicted as it often is. I suppose someone might use this to gain an upper hand with something like an Infernape waiting in the wings, but there isn't a very efficient way around it, and Rotom-W can outspeed and beat Infernape anyway.
-Rain Dance Mix: This is a really huge problematic threat and requires consistent prediction to stop, and good timing too! If Jirachi is in and CMing before this comes out then it has a good chance of beating it, otherwise this is ridiculously dangerous to everything on the team and requires very good play to beat. If it has Draco Meteor or Outrage and uses one of them it becomes significantly less threatening after it uses one of them on Jirachi, but if it has Dragon Pulse then selecting the Run option might be a good idea!
-Initial Switch: You'd have to be a very good player to make a severe dent in the team with Breloom, because Latias resists both STABs and has recovery, Gliscor resists the main STAB and has Taunt, and Jirachi has the defenses, recovery, and the super effective STAB needed to beat Breloom with relative ease. Rotom-W, Heatran, and Lucario all outspeed and threaten Breloom a lot as well.
-SubPuncher: Either just KO/cripple it outright or take the sleep with whatever seems most useless in the particular battle. After that, Jirachi, Latias, and Rotom-W can come in on some or all of its moves and beat it the majority of the time.
-ScarfLoom: Jirachi isn't afraid of anything except Spore, and neither is Gliscor. No threat.
-Initial Switch: It's usually a good idea to just attack Skarmory, most if not all of the Pokemon can handle it just fine. If a switch seems necessary for some reason, Jirachi and Heatran are best at forcing it out and Gliscor can start Taunt / Toxic stalling a team with the easy switch in that it gets from a Skarmory.
-Spiker: Attack it until it faints! Spikes aren't very nice to have to deal with so why bother switching or doing anything other than attacking or Taunting it immediately?
-Initial Switch: Gliscor makes a pretty good one, Rotom-W isn't bad either if I expect some Trick variation. Just attacking usually isn't a bad strategy either!
-Standard Leftovers / Light Clay: Just attack it or Taunt it to try to avoid letting it set up too much. Most of the team with the exception of Jirachi and Rotom-W threaten it, and those two should beat it as well, except they let it set up whatever it happens to have.
-CMZong: Tricking or attacking it before it can set up too much is the best plan. This thing isn't very common for some reason (probably because it can't withstand repeated strong physical hits for long enough).
-Trick: Rotom-W or Gliscor are fine. Heatran doesn't care too much either, because its item isn't very important and it usually won't switch attacks after the initial couple (the difference is it can threaten to switch attacks if it isn't choiced I suppose).
-Initial Switch: Jirachi or Gliscor because they don't care about Thunder Wave very much or at all respectively. Thunder Wave seems to be the most common by far of all Celebi variants currently.
-Defensive: Can stop Jirachi sweeps because of Perish Song, but not that hard to threaten with stuff like Heatran's Fire Blast, Rotom-W's Shadow Ball or Trick, Latias' HP Fire, or Lucario's Crunch. Taunt Gliscor also stops it from using Recover.
-CM / CM Pass: Taunt with Gliscor and then probably Trick with Rotom-W, or just beat it with Heatran from the start. As long as it isn't passing speed I should be fine. Can be a problem if it passes to Substitute Gengar, which is a pretty common recipient unfortunately.
-SD Pass: Same as CM Pass except Gliscor can just Toxic Stall if it doesn't have Seed Bomb. Latias is more likely to KO it in time as well.
-Choice: Latias is the best way to handle this I think. It doesn't mind Scarf or Specs much and takes Leaf Storm easily in case of a misprediction.
-Initial Switch: Gliscor and Rotom-W both resist U-turn and are immune to Earthquake. If Flygon locks into Outrage, I can hurt it pretty bad with Jirachi or Will-o-Wisp it. Gliscor can Toxic it as well.
-Scarf: Gliscor and Rotom-W are safe, Jirachi if it seems very unlikely that it'll Earthquake. Can be an issue if played well.
-Band: Prediction is the only way this team can handle this unfortunately. Latias outspeeds and OHKOs though which is useful and means Flygon won't sweep or KO more than one Pokemon if I just repeatedly go to Gliscor.
-Roost LO/Stall: Toxic with Gliscor is the best bet, even if it possibly means getting Toxiced back. Latias can come in on recovery attempts.
-Initial Switch: Latias has Grass Knot which hits Suicune for a BP of 120. Jirachi can set up alongside it and use Thunderbolt to keep it busy Resting if it is a ResTalk version. Rotom-W can Trick it a Scarf if necessary.
-Offensive CMer: Troublesome, but Latias can Grass Knot it for a lot of damage. I often keep Heatran in to HP Grass it as it CMs which means I can switch Latias in (or sac Heatran) to finish it with Grass Knot usually.
-ResTalk: Latias does loads, Rotom-W can trick, Jirachi can CM war with it, Lucario does a lot with Close Combat (usually more than 40%) if required.
-Roar: Latias' Grass Knot is enough to stop it.
-Initial Switch: Gliscor is pretty good, since most of these use HP Grass and tend to Thunderbolt first hoping that their opponent doesn't have a Ground-type. Jirachi comes in fairly safely on not Thunderbolt.
-Specs: Gliscor beats most of these and Latias or Jirachi beat the moves that Gliscor doesn't. Shadow Ball can be taken by Heatran if necessary.
-Substitute: Not really threatening unless played really well. Jirachi takes it on without too much trouble, but if it BPs to some kind of Heatran then I guess I'm in bigger trouble than Jirachi poses to Jolteon!
-Charge Beam: Gliscor first, then Jirachi or Heatran. Could be problematic if it gets +1 or +2.
-Initial Switch: Rotom-W or Jirachi usually, since they can set up on the Petaya version that most people use. Rotom-W outspeeds Modest and can Trick or Thunderbolt, while Jirachi tends to CM up.
-Lead: Usually Heatran will just SR against this, maybe Hydro Pump will miss! Latias beats non-Ice Beam versions, Jirachi beats non-Roar versions. Both are common!
-AgilityPetaya: This looks like a huge threat at a glance, but Jirachi sets up on it pretty easily and won't be easily KOed by Surf or Hydro Pump after a couple of Calm Minds. Additionally, Modest versions are outsped by Timid Scarf Rotom-W and Grass Knot versions have some trouble with Latias, and Lucario can Extremespeed to KO really low HP ones.
-AgilityLife Orb: Much bigger threat to this team than the Petaya ones in my opinion. Predict around it, hopefully outspeed it with Rotom-W or survive with Lucario or Jirachi and Close Combat or Thunderbolt respectively.
-Specs: Pretty much the same as the other Specs Waters except this gets Grass Knot! Which happens to do nothing significant to this team.
-SD: Rotom-W and Lucario do alright against this. Aqua Jet isn't strong enough to beat all of them!
Forretress: It doesn't easily set up on anything except maybe Jirachi but then it will be set up on as well. Heatran is the best switch.
Electivire: Rotom-W can Trick or attempt to beat it with Shadow Ball. It won't OHKO Jirachi with anything so Jirachi can be used to Psychic if necessary. Lucario can finish it with Extremespeed.
Togekiss: Doesn't pose much of a threat to Jirachi or Gliscor unless it has Body Slam for the latter. Rotom-W can Trick it or Thunderbolt it as well.
Weavile: Heatran, Jirachi, and Rotom-W can beat this. Lucario finishes it with Extremespeed if it gets low enough, and can also come in on Weavile as it tries to Night Slash the other Pokemon.
Aerodactyl: Tricking Aerodactyl a Scarf makes it a liability for the opponent because it lets Lucario or Jirachi set up for free if it uses a Rock move and Gliscor or Latias can come in on Earthquake.
Mamoswine: Lucario is Jolly-natured so it can outspeed and KO Mamoswine since it resists its priority (Ice Shard). Rotom-W makes a good switch and has Hydro Pump to do a lot to most Mamoswine. Can be a problem under the right conditions.
Snorlax: Lucario hits it hard, Rotom-W can use Trick on it, Gliscor can Taunt and stall it to death. Dragon Pulse from Latias hits it reasonably hard and Jirachi beats it after 2-3 CMs as well.
Dusknoir: This team doesn't really like being burnt, but pretty much everything on the team has a good shot of beating it. Gliscor probably cares the least about being burnt and can handle Dusknoir. Heatran comes in on Will-o-Wisp obviously, but can't come in on Substitute safely. Dragon Pulse from Latias, Shadow Ball from Rotom-W, and Crunch from Lucario all do quite a lot of damage to Dusknoir unboosted.
Smeargle: Most are leads. Stealth Rock then Gliscor and Taunt is usually the best method of beating it. Rotom-W can come in on other variants because they usually rely on Endeavor or some weird set with Extremespeed or Explosion.
Ninjask: Fire Blast first, then either Will-o-Wisp or switch to Lucario or Gliscor to shut it down depending on what it did. If it isn't a lead for whatever reason, just attack with whatever's out unless it's Latias because then it might use X-Scissor!
Tentacruel: Toxic Spikes do nothing and Jirachi sets up on this very easily. Rotom-W and Gliscor beat it as well. Not a problem.
Dragonite: Lock it into Outrage using Gliscor then finish it with Jirachi. Can be a problem, Rotom-W can Trick it if necessary though. I could see some kind of Substitute Dragonite variant being a problem, but I don't think I have seen those since Advance or something.
Hippowdon: Most are leads, Heatran can Fire Blast or Will-o-Wisp straight away to put the pressure on it. Otherwise, Latias hits it really, really hard and Gliscor easily beats it.
Roserade: Again, most are leads. Toxic Spikes hit a total of zero Pokemon so usually Heatran takes the sleep then either stays in to wake up and get Stealth Rock or Latias come in and KOs it. Scarf version is even less threatening usually.
Porygon-Z: Jirachi resists Tri Attack and can set up Calm Minds against most of these. Rotom-W is immune so it can come in on Specs Tri Attack for free. Nasty Plot versions are usually outsped by Lucario and Agility versions lose to Jirachi pretty badly.
Cresselia: Jirachi sets up and beats non-Calm Mind Cresselia, and Calm Mind versions can be dealt with through Trick or Lucario Crunching it a few times usually. Calm Mind versions could be a threat.
Heracross: Gliscor is a pretty great counter to this, otherwise Rotom-W and Jirachi do pretty well.
Umbreon: Gliscor and Lucario can switch between Yawns and Mean Looks without much trouble and ruin pretty much any Umbreon with Taunt or Close Combat. Synchronize makes it a bit tougher for Gliscor but it is usually fine to just Earthquake it until it is KOed.
Alakazam: Jirachi beats it pretty easily, alternatively Rotom-W can use its Scarf to outspeed and Shadow Ball or Lucario can abuse Alakazam's terrible Defense and finish it with Extremespeed.
That is how this team handles everything in the top 50 for OU!
|Sep 20th, 2009, 2:27:26 PM||#3|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Wow. This team is fantastic. I think it should be archieved. The only real problem I can see is DDmence might give you trouble, especially if it's running Dragon Claw or if your Gliscor is weakened. But I think that's only a slight problem.
Another problem is DDGyara. I see you have a scarfed Rotom but that can easily be Pursuited but the fairly common Tyranitar and Gyarados offensive combination. I would generally bring Rotom out early and either switch out quickly or use Hydro Pump as your opening move to scout for Tyranitar.
I hope this helped a little. It's hard to find a lot of flaws for this team. You guys did a great job!
|Sep 20th, 2009, 4:45:09 PM||#4|
just came to say hello
Thank you very much for your rate and praise. ^_^ However, I disagree. I have a number of ways to deal with Dragon Dancers. Gyarados in particular has never given me any trouble. DDTar is the only one I've ever really had problems with, and Gliscor + Will-O-Wisp solve that.
|Sep 20th, 2009, 5:02:00 PM||#5|
Join Date: Jul 2009
this is a very good team but i see a pretty big heatran weakness. if your own heatran goes down then scarftran can give you problems because your other fire resist, latias cant touch it with its moves. My recommendation is changing grass knot to surf to help wit Heatran. I know grass knot is good because of Tyranitar but i think Heatran is much more of a threat than tyranitar because you hav Gliscor, and Lucario who can easily set up on pursuit. just a nitpick but nice team.
|Sep 20th, 2009, 6:14:15 PM||#6|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Firstly, like you said, it does more to Tyranitar and gives you the chance of KOing or getting very close to it (close enough so that it can never switch in again later in the battle assuming SR is up). Secondly, if Latias comes in on anything other than Substitute Heatran they usually assume I'm going to Surf and switch out anyway. The most common Substitute Heatran has its subs broken by Dragon Pulse though, and they might still expect Surf because of how common it is. Thirdly, without Grass Knot, Latias loses the capability of dealing with important Pokemon like Suicune and Swampert. If you look at it from the perspective that Grass Knot hits two of the main Pokemon that you want to hit with Surf and Thunderbolt in the first place (Tyranitar and Suicune) both harder and with one move, and that the main reason to use Surf will switch out of Latias and come in on Jirachi or Rotom-W later anyway, you can probably see why Grass Knot was chosen. If I recall correctly, Dragon + Fire + Grass is resisted only by Heatran anyway.
I do agree that Heatran can be a pretty big threat if it is played well!
Thank you for rating!
|Sep 20th, 2009, 10:31:40 PM||#7|
Join Date: Aug 2008
I really don't know why you need jolly lucario personally when you have gliscor and rotom. But anyway I don't have too much to add I'm mainly posting for an alternative EV spread for jirachi.
236HP / 232 Defence / 40 Speed.
Gliscor still 3HKOs you (39.50% - 47.00%), the HP gives 400 which is a leftovers number (I think) and the 40 speed allows you to outpace max speed tyranitar and those pokes that aim to outspeed max speed tyranitar by once point (celebi, zapdos). Zapdos is the main one here so you can CM before it heatwaves.
Nice team, good job on pulling through for us Earthworm!
<am> shes p. hot not gonna lie
<am> kinda reminds me of my mum fsr
<am> if its for money its not gay
|Sep 21st, 2009, 5:26:20 AM||#8|
just came to say hello
THIS IS MY RMT TOO T___T
Lucario is Jolly because Jolly allows it to sweep well on its own. It's explained in the description, pana~
Oh, and I missed the spread, I don't think outpacing Tyranitar is important, but I like outspeeding Zapdos before it Heat Waves. I might try that spread, thank you very much!
Last edited by jumpluff; Sep 21st, 2009 at 5:38:00 AM.
|Sep 21st, 2009, 6:44:54 PM||#9|
Join Date: Apr 2009
I like this team jumpluff, its obviously great and succesful and I'm pretty sure you won't take any big changes. Although Heatran being a big issue, it can come in on most of your attacks, especially Will-o-Wisp, Fire blast, Fire-type attacks in general. Unfortunately, with a Flash Fire boost, it does a minumum of 50.66% on your latias, and dies from Dragon Pulse next. Personally, Earth Power might be a good upgrade over Hidden Power Grass. I'm iffy, but hitting Swampert solely is an alright reason to use it. I mean yeah, it hits other bulky waters, but its something Heatran shouldn't be staying on. Earth Power actually helps OHKO Heatran, provided that they don't carry Shuca of their own. Latias is usually a good switch-in on Swampert, and most won't expect Grass Knot, you can smash it if they stay (hopefully). nice job!, that's all i have to say.