Suspect Test Process Stage Three - Version 2.0!

Aeolus

Aeolus

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And then there were three.

Latios and Skymin are out, and only Garchomp, Manaphy, and Latias remain. Doug has graciously put up the Suspect ladder on Smogon University so that we may advance our agenda toward completing this extensive Suspect Test process.

This test will last approximately one month; the voter pool will be determined in the same way as last round. Successful participation and experience with the Suspects is paramount if you wish to earn voting rights.

If Garchomp is voted uber again, by any margin, then it will be declared uber. With great input from many esteemed users, Jumpman and I have decided to adopt the policy that any suspect voted uber twice in a row in the same stage will be branded thus. Any suspect voted uber by a critically wide margin (as Latios and Skymin were) bypass the retest. We appreciate your patience and dedication to this process. Conservatism and careful decision-making are more important than a hasty finish.

Get to it!
 
sweet, I've been waiting for this, was afraid I'd have to wait for stage 3. sadly, why I was waiting I made at least a couple solid suspect teams....unfortunately I didn't realize that chomp was going to be in it again!
 
Chomps in?! Good, a poke shouldn't be kicked out by such a narrow margin. May I ask what the percentage difference line is for finalizing the tier or retesting a poke?
 
In order to be uber, pokemon need to either

1) Get voted more than 66.66..% in one vote
2) Or be voted uber twice in a row by 50%
 
strange. I am winning matches on the suspect ladder but my rating is not changing. by the looks of it, this is happening to everyone. what's up?

edit: nevermind its normal now
 
Alright, Suspect is back up and now its time to ladder it up (as well as test some new things.).
 
I'm going to be getting involved in this as well, and attempt to make the cut-off.

I expect that Garchomp will be used even more this time... no Latios to check him.

But, wasn't Latias hardly voted Uber whatsoever? What happens if Latias or Manaphy are voted Uber this time? Will there need to be a 3rd test of them?
 
Raikaria said:
But, wasn't Latias hardly voted Uber whatsoever? What happens if Latias or Manaphy are voted Uber this time? Will there need to be a 3rd test of them?
Click to expand...
Aeolus said:
any suspect voted uber twice in the same stage will be branded thus. Any suspect voted uber by a critically wide margin (as Latios and Skymin were) bypass the retest.
Click to expand...

I think this answers your question.
 
I hope I'll be able to make the cut-off this time, too. Are we going to be using Suspect Experience to influence the voting this time, too?

I've jumped in already, out of around 10 battles, SD Chomp with Haban/Yache Berry has been really underwhelming, with the large number of Scarf Latias with Trick around, HP Ice Jolteon and Raikou are showing up more often than not, too.
 
Alex13 said:
I hope I'll be able to make the cut-off this time, too. Are we going to be using Suspect Experience to influence the voting this time, too?
Click to expand...

Aeolus said:
This test will last approximately one month; the voter pool will be determined in the same way as last round. Successful participation and experience with the Suspects is paramount if you wish to earn voting rights.
Click to expand...

I've played a few battles today, and my first impression is that the metagame hasn't changed that much since stage 3-1. Yache-Garchomp is still a beast and is really hard to stop, Latias is a decent check, but with all the Scizor\Metagross\TTar around, she has really hard times staying alive long enough to check it. I haven't met a rain team yet, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. Manaphy is awesome and, without Latios and Skymin around, is showing again its full potential: sub-tail glow can set up on a plethora of Pokemon and it's quite hard to revenge kill given Manaphy's natural bulkyness and typing. I'm sure that the voting percentages will be very close for this Pokemon.

I'm pretty sure Latias is going to be voted OU by a large majority again. Maybe it's because we're already used to deal with her, but I see absolutely no possible arguments for her to be Uber.
 
ScarfChomp has been the man for me. Heh I just threw him on my team over Mence and bam 2/3 suspects. Gonna try to incorporate Manaphy a bit later in the month :).
 
I have been trying Manaphy,
and it doesn't seem to broken for OU,
It has weaker Attack/Def as SD Scizor (The TG set).
It's advantages are:
HP, Spe, SpD,
Sccizor has:
Atk,(Greater attack stat then Manaphy's SpA stat) Def.
The only real difference is typing.
 
aidanmg said:
I have been trying Manaphy,
and it doesn't seem to broken for OU,
It has weaker Attack/Def as SD Scizor (The TG set).
It's advantages are:
HP, Spe, SpD,
Sccizor has:
Atk,(Greater attack stat then Manaphy's SpA stat) Def.
The only real difference is typing.
Click to expand...

Speed is a great advanatge, water typing is awesome and plus manpahy is able to put up 101 subs >> I don't get why you're comparing them two as scizor isn't comparable, it functions differently to manaphy.
 
ok, just so you guys know, this is the literature that was in the original proposal:

As a corollary of supporting this condition, a suspect is not considered to be uber until it has voted uber by simple majority twice in a row in the same stage of suspect testing or voted uber by a supermajority > 50%+1 to be determined later (e.g. 2/3+1).

somehow colin forgot to include the crucial bolded detail in the actual voting poll, but this is the detail i have been harping on for an entire month, so i will make it very clear here before anybody asks any questions after the fact. unless voted uber by a supermajority (66% + 1), a suspect has to be voted uber twice in a row in order to be removed from testing.

this means that if garchomp is voted ou in stage 3-2, we have at least two more stages left if it is actually going to ever be voted uber ultimately unless it is voted 67% uber or more in stage 3-3. things like this absolutely need to be clear to everyone involved in the test
 
From what I've seen so far:

EVERY SINGLE TEAM has Garchomp. I'm not kidding. And almost every single battle has been won or lost by Garchomp. Bear in mind, Latias is around as an extra counter to Garchomp this time, from when he was last OU, and there is Scizor's Bullet Punches to weaken it, but Latias is not being used as often, and Scizor's attacks actually fail to 2HKO.

Before, Garchomp was held back by Skymin and Latios. Both are now Uber. With two decent checks gone, I'm guessing that Garchomp will be Uber by at least 66% this time.

I guess I'll be making a team soon that is Anti-Garchomp. Just to see what lengths a OU team has to go to be Garchomp-proof. If I have to go too far in my usual team development to do this (ie: tons of team members that can counter/check Chomp), then, I'll be classing Garchomp as Uber. Even then, if it makes a strong enough impression, Garchomp = Uber for me.

I've seen SD Yache, SD Haban (Latias and other Chomps), SubSD (Abused with Sand Stream), Scarf, CB, and even a Chainchomp carrying Flamethrower to deal with Scizor.

Manaphy I've been torn on. I've seen Tail Glow Abused to death on a particular team, which also uses Garchomp, and destroys my team. However, the current enviroment might cause Manaphy to be voted OU. Why? Rain is good for Manaphy. Everyone and their brother is running Garchomp. Almost all of these Garchomp have Tyranitar or Hippowdon as partners. Sand Stream stops Rain. Manaphy likes Rain.

Manaphy can sweep, in the right situation, but, the current situation (Garchomp), it cannot. However, I feel borderline on it being OU or Uber. No Base 100 all round that is currently OU has the movepool to make use of a +2 stat up move, and Mew's Uber anyway.

Latias... sure, it's in the OU of OU, but I doubt it'll get more than about 15% of the vote. Next Suspect Nominations, it might not even make it there, in place of the likes of Scizor, and any current Ubers who make OU.
 
Raikaria said:
From what I've seen so far:

EVERY SINGLE TEAM has Garchomp. I'm not kidding. And almost every single battle has been won or lost by Garchomp..
Click to expand...

What were you expecting you then? .-.

I've had success with manaphy. Defensive CM'der is quite good to setup on walls. I ran bold nature: 252HP/212/defense/44speed - Rest/RD/surf/CM. Vappy walks all over but meh haven't seen any.
 
Uh, Garchomp not to be on every team.

The other two suspects manage to not be on every team. I don't see Latias or Manaphy on every team, although Latias is about as common as in OU, and Manaphy use is higher because of the Suspect Status, Garchomp being on every team is just stupid. There's 3 other suspects out there, one of which is a revenge killer to almost any Garchomp (Scarf Latias' Draco Meteor), the other being somewhat decent if the Garchomp lacks Swords Dance. (Scarfchomp in particular)

Garchomp, however, manages to worm it's way on more or less every team. That does not bother me, it's the fact that Garchomp ends more or less every game that does. A pokemon who's worming onto every team (And was 60%+ with 2 other suspects who checked him too), and is ending the games in a metagame where Garchomp Centraliastion is expected, hence, Garchomp counters are used more, is a strong sign of Garchomp leaning towards Uber.

It dosen't help that Garchomp was voted Uber once, and made the 2nd test, while the two suspects who happened to be good checks/counters for it, were banished to Uber. In other words, with two less checks, Garchomp is going to become even more difficult to stop, and even more centralising. Something that was voted Uber before... suddenly is harder to stop? Something tells me the Uber status is not going to change, instead, it'll be almost unanimous, besides the somewhat large 'Free Garchomp' sect, who would never be swayed otherwise, because they miss the OU meta back when it had Garchomp. (How about we make 'Free Kyogre?')

Garchomp useage also hampers Manaphy. Sandstorm is used with Garchomp as much as possible. I understand, that this means that people are abusing Garchomp to the fullest extent, which is what we are supposed to do on the Suspect ladder. However, Sand Veil abuse hampers others from abusing what probobly made Manaphy Uber in the first place, Hydration Rest. Due to larger useage of T-Tar and Hippowdon in Suspect than OU, Manaphy is suffering more than it would in the normal OU metagame. In other words, we are not testing it at the potenual it could be at if it entered OU, simply because of Garchomp centralisation.


I'm worn out of Garchomp essays. I've explained what it's status in the Suspect Metagame is twice now, and why this is hampering Manaphy. I know Garchomp would be a central force, but not the single pivot of EVERY SINGLE TEAM.
 
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