Team 8 AM: I'm Too Old for This....

The 8th Wonder of the World: King of Torment


Team Changes:

• None

Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Own Tempo
EV's: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)

• Trick - I Trick right off the bat as the opponent either switches into a Sleep Talker (which the Star of the team hates) or stay in to set up SR before they "sleep". Many people don't think that Smeargle is scarfed, since the majority of Smeargle leads carry Spore and Focus Sash. This is my first element of surprise on this team.
• Spore - After the opponent is tricked with an undesirable item, they tend to panic and switch out right away. Then I use Spore to guarantee a cripple on their team, giving TormentTran time to set up subs all on their ass.
• Spikes - Spikes is not as important for this team, but entry hazards help to weaken enemies down so TormentTran can take them down faster.
• Toxic Spikes - Toxic Spikes is vital to this team's survival, since TormentTran needs to stall out its enemies via Poison and Struggle. I tend to put down at least 1 layer of Toxic Spikes before I set up Spikes.

.......

• Why this Pokemon?
  Well, on a good day, TrickScarf Smeargle will cripple 2 foes, giving TormentTran less threats to worry about. Smeargle also lures in RhysTalkers, things that TormentTran can't handle on its own, which is a plus.
  .......
• EV's and Nature:
  Max HP gives me a higher rate to survive a CB Weedle's Bug Bite as well as to survive Metagross' Bullet Punch, and stuff of that nature. And speaking of natures, Jolly along with the speed EV's allow me to outrun all Scarfed bitches IIRC.
  .......
• Considered Changes / Changes:
  I've been considering Explosion over Spikes to give myself a true suicide lead, just in case I don't get enough time to set up Spikes and need to get the hell out of the field. I have also considered on changing the EV spread, since it looks a bit stupid ATM.
  .......
• Leads Comparison:
  • 
    Metagross: EV's are aimed at surviving a Bullet Punch. I obviously outspeed, enough to Spore him down before he explodes on my face.
  • 
    Azelf: I outspeed all variants. I proceed to Trick as he Taunts/SR. Then I cripple the switch-in with Spore. 2 cripples baby.
  • 
    Jirachi: LOL. I Trick as he sets up SR. He switches out as I Spore. I only fear Trick and U-Turn.
  • 
    Swampert: Pfftt... Same as Jirachi.
  • 
    Aerodactyl: Same as Azelf. I love receiving a Focus Sash.
  • 
    Infernape: Yes. Same as Aerodactyl.
  • 
    Hippowdon: Whatever he does, IDGAF.
  • 
    Bronzong: I only fear Explosion from this bitch, but whatever he does, IDGAF.
  • 
    Ninjask: LOL. This guy just sucks. Trick and Spore baby. Trick and Spore.
  • 
    Tyranitar: Oh man. Trick. Get a Lum Berry for the win as he gets stuck on SR, thinking that I will Spore. I only fear Stone Edge.
  .......

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)

• Trick - Trick is the most obvious choice of move, since my team needs as many enemies Choiced as possible.
• Surf - Surf is for general scouting.
• Dragon Pulse - Dragon Pulse is also for general scouting.
• Draco Meteor - Draco Meteor is Latias' best form of attack and dent things easier.

.......

• Why this Pokemon?
  I needed something to counter Mence, DDMence especially. ScarfLatias does this perfectly, as well as counters any DD threat with ease.
  .......
• EV's and Nature:
  Standard offensive EV's geared towards SpA and Spe.
  .......
• Considered Changes / Changes:
  I've been considering Modest over Timid, but the argument of POWER vs SPEED comes up. I want extra power, but I felt that I needed more speed to get Salamence if it manages to get 1 DD. I am also considering ScarfRachi, since I like Serene Grace, and flinch hax as well as parahax fucks the world. But by adding Jirachi, I am opening up holes for Infernape to wreak havoc.
  .......

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EV's: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpA)

• Taunt - Taunt enables me to become a threat to stall.
• Stealth Rock - SR is my final form of entry hazard built on this team.
• Earthquake - Earthquake is for general STAB and to deal with Lucario.
• U-Turn - U-Turn makes my life easier as I scout the opponent's switch-in.

.......

• Why this Pokemon?
  I wanted a general Lucario counter as well as something to stop stall and set up SR. At first I wanted a Bulky DD Mence to check Lucario, but then I realized that I needed someone threaten stall. Taut Gyara was my second choice, but it couldn't set up SR. So I just gave in to Gliscor.
  .......
• EV's and Nature:
  216 Speed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed all non-Choice Scarf Heatran and neutral natured Lucario. Impish over Jolly to have more bulk.
  .......
• Considered Changes / Changes:
  I am open to any suggestions to replace Gliscor. I feel like there's something better out there... I might consider Jolly over Impish to ensure victory over Lucario. Roost is an option over U-Turn to give it more survivablity.
  .......

Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 252 HP / 40 SpAtk / 216 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)

• Trick - Trick is obvious to achieve my goal.
• Shadow Ball - Shadow Ball is for obvious STAB.
• Thunderbolt - Thunderbolt is my second answer to DD Gyara if ScarfLatias seems to be dead. It also for general STAB. Thunderbolt also helps with Skarmory.
• Overheat - Overheat is my other answer to Skarmory. It also is my answer to annoying Scizor who likes to come in after my Latias is stuck on Draco Meteor.

.......

• Why this Pokemon?
  I wanted another Trick Scarfer as well as an answer to Skarmory and other pesky steels. Being a secondary Gyara counter and Lucario is a plus. I also wanted a spin-blocker to keep my hazards alive.
  .......
• EV's and Nature:
  Max HP for bulk. I gave 216 Spe to outrun Adamant Lucario, since Jolly Lucario rarely carries Crunch. I shoved the remaining into SpA for some power to OHKO Lucario with Overheat.
  .......
• Considered Changes / Changes:
  None
  .......

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EV's: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)

• Substitute - Substitute is vital for TormentGyara to work.
• Torment - Torment is vital for TormentGyara to work.
• Dragon Dance - Behind a Sub, I can pull off as many DD's as I want, or at least until my Sub dies.
• Bounce - With Bounce, I can simply wreak havoc behind a sub and at least 1 DD. With Bounce, I won't lose to Vaporeon, and Celebi and Breloom can simply bend over to Gyara. Bounce serves as my Protect and offense at the same time. Bounce also gives me a chance to paralyze the opponent, which is an absolute plus.

.......

• Why this Pokemon?
  Seeing that Heatran lures in generally Ground moves, I wanted something that could take Ground moves as well as Water moves as well. Electric attacks are generally given to Rotom.
  .......
• EV's and Nature:
  The EVs given balance out Gyarados's defensive and offensive capabilities. 156 HP ensures that Gyarados is never 2HKOed by Timid Life Orb Heatran Fire Blast, after SR and Leftovers. 96 EVs are placed in Defense to ensure that Scizor will never 2HKO Gyarados with a Choice Band Quick Attack after Sandstorm, SR, and Leftovers, helping ensure that Scizor cannot score a revenge kill. 184 Speed outruns Jolly Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and +Speed Starmie and Azelf after a Dragon Dance. The remaining EVs are placed in Attack to increase damage against foes like Celebi.
  .......
• Considered Changes / Changes:
  I have considered sets like Disable Kingdra over this set. Kingdra can lure in Outrages, giving Heatran free time to get in and pull Subs. But I like TormentGyara simply because it is bulky and it efficient. Persuade me to change this. I am also taking recommendations for the EV spread. Since I want my Subs to generally last longer, while giving myself more strength. Don't even give me the Standard EV's for the SubBounce set since it lacks the bulk I want. Waterfall might be a better choice than Bounce, but Bounce doesn't let me lose to Vaporeon nor Celebi.
  .......

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EV's: 244 HP / 32 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)

• Substitute - Substitute is vital for TormentTran to work.
• Torment - Torment is vital for TormentTran to work.
• Protect - When my foe is Choiced and under Torment, Protect does wonders as I block incoming hits, and laugh as he Struggles next turn.
• Lava Plume - Lava Plume is great for Heatran. Lava Plume has a 30% chance to burn the target, which intimidates the foe from setting up, as a burn can be disastrous for setup sweepers like DDGyara and DDMence.

.......

• Why this Pokemon?
  TormentTran has great synergy with TormentGyara. It can also rip apart teams that are not prepared for it. With Trick support, TormentTran can become unstoppable.
  .......
• EV's and Nature:
  The HP EVs allow Heatran to hit its highest Leftovers number. The Speed EVs bring Heatran to 245 Speed, which allows you to outspeed Zapdos and Celebi at 244 Speed. The Special Defense EVs allow Heatran to take 24% max from a neutral natured, 0 Special Attack Rotom’s Discharge. Heatran always 3HKOs bulky Rotom. The Special Attack EVs ensure that you do a minimum of 33% to max HP Machamp, meaning that the Rest + Sleep Talk sets will be 3HKOed.
  .......
• Considered Changes / Changes:
  None
  .......

Threats List

RED means if not dealt with properly it could sweep or wall my entire team.
ORANGE means it may require a sacrifice to deal with, but not generally.

Abomasnow: As a lead, this thing loses against Smeargle. If not, then Rotom can Overheat and Heatran can Lava Plume.
Aerodactyl: Usually seen as a lead, and it loses against Smeargle. I love getting a Focus Sash from him.
Alakazam: Rotom can dent it. Latias is the same.
Azelf: Same as Aerodactyl. As a lead, Smeargle usually wins if it doesn't U-Turn or Explode.
Blissey: Gyarados is safe from status behind a Sub. Heatran is the same. Blissey becomes set-up fodder for TormentGyara. Gliscor can take T-Waves and threaten with EQ. My team handles it pretty well.
Breloom: Gyarados, use Bounce! Rotom and Heatran says hi.
Bronzong: Gliscor stops it with Taunt. As a lead, it loses to Smeargle. Heatran resists all its moves and threatens with Lava Plume. It can become set-up fodder for Gyara.
Celebi: Gyarados says hi. Heatran says hi.
Cresselia: Rotom can try to dent it with repeated Shadow Balls. What I would try to do is Trick an item to her so she can become set-up fodder for Gyarados.
Donphan: Rotom says hi. Latias can do the same if it's stuck on something other than Ice Shard. Gyarados resists everything it can dish out.
Dragonite: LOL. Latias. 'Nuff said.
Dugtrio: Somewhat of a pain. Gliscor can take whatever it dishes out, but won't like repeated Stone Edges. CB variants are easy to handle, Expert Belt variants are a bitch to handle, but luckily I don't see this mole much.
Dusknoir Rotom. Heatran loves WoW. Gyarados can avoid WoW behind a Sub. Nothing my team can't handle.
Electivire: Gliscor takes the win. I can revenge it with Latias and Rotom.
Empoleon Rotom handles Grass Knot like a pro as well as everything else and threatens with Thunderbolt.
Flygon: Latias can outspeed it and threaten with Dragon Pulse.
Forretress: Rotom blocks Rapid Spin as well as lives a Payback and threaten with Overheat.
Gengar: LO variants are easy to handle. Scarf variants are a bit tricky. I can lure a Shadow Ball by sending in Rotom as fodder, then send in Heatran to set-up all over its ass.
Gliscor: Easy. Latias.
Gyarados: Rotom. Latias as backup.
Heatran: Choiced variants are manhandled by TormentTran. Sub variants can be handled by Gliscor even Latias, if it's not TormentTran.
Heracross: Rotom says hi. Gyarados can also Bounce, only fearing Stone Edge.
Hippowdon: As a lead, it loses to Smeargle. Latias checks it nicely.
Infernape: As a lead, Smeargle can beat it while getting a sash, only fearing Fake Out. Latias can handle other variants.
Jirachi: Rotom can take Iron Heads. Latias outspeeds all variants and 2HKO with Surf.
Jolteon: Jolteon is an absolute bitch to this team. Luckily it's very rare. If it doesn't carry HP Ice, Gliscor can threaten with EQ.
Kingdra: Not a big deal. Latias outspeeds and threatens with almost everything she has. Rotom can outspeed and threaten with T-Bolt. If it's raining, I'm fucked.
Latias: I can speedtie opposing Scarf Timid Latias. Rotom can handle it as well. If it's stuck on Draco Meteor, Heatran can come in and set up.
Lucario: Gliscor. Rotom.
Machamp: Heatran. My whole team can handle it fine.
Magnezone: Rotom can resist everything it dishes out.
Mamoswine: Rotom.
Metagross: As a lead, it loses to Smeargle 4/5 times. Rotom can 2HKO with Shadow Ball; Heatran can finish it off.
Ninjask: LOL. Only seen as a lead, and it gets raped by Smeargle.
Porygon-Z: Nothing on my team handles it exceptionally well, but the majority of them are Choiced, so Gyara and Tran ftw.
Raikou: Gliscor, if it doesn't carry HP Ice. Rotom and Latias outspeeds non-Scarf variants, and can wear it down.
Rhyperior: Latias.
Rotom (all formes): My own Rotom can deal with it, although it loses to those with max speed.
Salamence: Latias says hi.
Scizor: Rotom.
Skarmory: Rotom.
Slowbro: Rotom says hi.
Snorlax: When I see this thing, I save at least one Scarf to deal with it. After it is Tricked, I just let Gyara set up on it.
Starmie: Rotom. Latias.
Suicune: I will just go ahead and Trick a Scarf on him, since I don't want CM+Surf raping me. Gyara can come in safely after that and set up.
Swampert: As a lead, it loses to Smeargle, who only fears offensive moves. But other than that, Gyara can handle it. Latias too (kinda).
Tentacruel Latias. Rotom can cock-block.
Togekiss: Rotom. Latias.
Tyranitar: Latias can weaken it with Surf, then Gyarados can simply Bounce on it. Heatran can easily set up depending on the move it's stuck on.
Vaporeon: Gyarados. Rotom. Latias.
Weavile: Gyarados says hi.
Yanmega: Hopefully SR will be up by the time I see this bitch. Gyarados can Bounce, unless if it has Protect. Latias can try to outspeed it if it doesn't have 2 Speed boosts yet.
Zapdos: Rotom says hi.

Hello, got your vm =D

The first thing that came to my mind is the amount of choice scarfed pokemon on this team.
I'll just look at each pokemon, you have no obvious weaknesses. So most of my suggestions are probably just small nitpicks.

Smeargle: Honestly, I think Smeargle's job as a lead is coming to an end. I cannot tell you the amount of people with Lum berry and taunt leads. Also, Azelf completely owns the lead. It may get a scarf, but it can taunt you which just like cutting smeargle's tail off. Due to this, I'll suggest a Roserade lead. You stated that spikes aren't that important, well.. Roserade is one of the best, if not the best toxic spikers in the game. Here is the set I'll like you to use.

Roserade @ Focus sash
Timid | 4 hp / 252 sp.atk / 252 spe
Leaf storm / Grass knot , Toxic spikes , Hidden power fire / Hidden power ice , Sleep powder

This is pretty much your standard lead. This girl thing here guarantee's one layer of toxic spikes unless it gets taunted. Leaf storm and grass knot is by your preference. If you don't mind the sp.atk drop, then stay with leaf storm. HP fire / HP ice is again, whatever you prefer. Both work well, though I like hp fire more because metagross doesn't appreciate losing, what 50% health?


Latias: Have you ever considered thunder bolt over Dragon pulse? Gyarados is used more ( I Believe ~20%).

Gliscor: Meh, looks fine.

Rotom-h: If you consider thunderbolt on latias, I would suggest changing this guy's set to the standard.

Rotom-h @ Lefties
Bold | 252 hp / 168 def / 88 spe
Thunderbolt , Overheat , Wil-o-wisp, Shadow ball

Rotom-h is considered the best rapid spin blocker, and rightfully so. With his natural bulk, starmie doesn't stand a chance.
You said this thing counters lucario, well.. I think Gliscor fills in that role quite nicely.



The rest is fine, cool team. Porygon-Z isn't that much of a threat. 1) Most run choiced sets, and rotom-h resists his STAB Try attack. 2) No one really uses em anymore because Latias is the better scarfer now.



Cool, original team.

-iShedinja

I have 1 nitpick and one suggestion.

Firstly you say use trick on Smeargle as Jirachi SR's.
90% of Rachi leads are scarf'd themselves, so that would leave you locked into Trick.

Secondly I know that the torment tran works wonders already, but for you're struggling needs.
Would Fire Spin or Magma Storm be more effective here? I have never myself used TormentTran. But if you're trying to make them wear them selves down. Wouldn't trapping them into their struggle be more effective?

EDIT: I can also see a problem with other teams that utilize many choice users. As you try to trick onto them. They can counter attack with no fear.

@iShedinja: thanks for the rate.

the reason i did not want roserade was this: i wanted to have as many Trick Scarfers as possible on this team to make the stars of this team sweep better. Roserade does a great job at putting something to sleep, crippling 1 pokemon. with smeargle, i have potential to cripple at least 2 pokemon, thus letting the stars sweep easier. and since my smeargle is scarfed, it can basically outspeed all leads, and trick them. taunt leads dont mean much to me. i outspeed those without a scarf. they get stuck on taunt, they switch out, and i do the same. we both lose. no biggie. it means my smeargle has stopped the opponent's SR, giving my gyarados free reign. done.

i already have thunderbolt on rotom, so i thought it would be superfluous. i like dragon pulse simply because i dont have to rely on draco meteor to KO small things like flygon. rotom already handles gyara pretty well.

i strayed away from the standard rotom simply because i wanted plenty of trickscarfers, which help my stars sweep. the standard might help with WoW, but Heatran's Lava Plume can do the same if im lucky.

and thanks for the mention about porygon-z. i forgot that most are choiced. although looking back, porygon 2 might pose a threat.....

@Go Mango: thanks for the suggestion.

i went with lava plume simply because of its power and its secondary effect: burn. Fire spin loses out on ALOT of power for some stupid residual damage. Magma storm has great power... in return for shitty accuracy... and since this team is somewhat stall-oriented, i need as much accuracy as i can get. so those 2 moves you suggested are out of the question.

I've used a torment tran team before and its tough to use without toxic spikes as you know. Because of this, your lead is not great. I actually like the idea of this lead, but if your opponent attacks, you dont get tspikes at all. so, Im going to suggest Roserade as suggested before. Its just more reliable to this teams' function imo.

I really think that torment gyara is way to situational for this team. think about it, it takes 25% from stealth rock off the bat, + any attack if it switches in. then 25% as a sub, so you are looking at 50% for one switch in and use. To me, thats really useless. Id change it to a standard dd gyarados to give this team a little offense.

Agreeing with the majority of people here and saying that you should definatley try Roserade over Smeargle. Roserade can get up toxic spikes fairly easily, and i have tried that Smeargle before and found it near impossible to set up Toxic spikes AND spikes without the use of an item such as focus sash. You already have Latias and Rotom to use as struggle bait for Heatran- I dont think you need a 3rd.

I'dalso like to know how you deal with DD Tyraintar with Aqua Tail, your only bet would be to burn it or hopefully trick a scarf onto it before it kills you

I'm wondering how much you have used smeargle as a lead. When I used a trick scarf smeargle as a lead I found that most people will try to KO smeargle, since a lot of leads carry lum berry or are wary of a trick. Metagross is going to do something like MM+BP on you, locking it into MM which still equals a dead smeargle. Jirachi likes to carry a scarf and will iron head you to death. A lot of bulky leads do not carry focus sashes, which leaves smeargle open to being OHKO'd. The best way I found to get a double spiker in play was using an anti lead like dragonite, then getting your spiker in play. Mine was fortress which worked fairly well against ice attacks aimed at dragonite.

I think that smeargle actually looses to many of the leads you said that it beat: Many azelf actually carry trick + scarf, which ties at worst with your set, and almost every lead ninjask I have seen protects on the first turn, and CS smergle will not outspeed ninjask after the speed boost gained by protect, and then nothing you have in smergle will break jasks subs. Also, many metagross leads as well as jirachi have scarf + trick sets, so unless you spore first and switch out to trick later, smeargle will only tie at best, assuming that they choose trick as well.

Because you really need toxic spikes, I am going to make the same suggestion that many others have in replacing smeargle with roserade, although it will cause you to loose out on a trick user.

The set I would recommend for roserade is:

Roserade @ Focus sash
Timid | 4 hp / 252 sp.atk / 252 spe
Leaf storm, Toxic spikes , Hidden power fire, Sleep powder

I suggest HP [fire] over ice because foretress loves to come in after sleep clause and lay down its own hazards and spin away yours; even after the special attack drop from leaf storm, HP [fire] is still a 2HKO, and a OHKO if leaf storm has not been used (HP fire comes with the added benefit of helping with the odd metagross and bronzong leads). Also, running leaf storm allows you to do decent damage to Vaporeon who otherwise shrugs off grass knot because of its low weight and retaliates with super effective ice beams.

You may want to consider replacing glicsor with either a CB Tyranitar, or a hippowdon; this is mainly to help heatran (who is immune to SS damage), stall a bit better late game; CB tar can also rid you of latias (and other psychic and ghost types) via pursuit trapping, and give you a very easy solution to specs jolteon thanks to the sp. defense boost granted by sandstorm. Hippowdon is an even better answer to most physical threats than gliscor due to his immense bulk, but the lack of speed between the two can hurt a bit, it is worth noting, however, that hippowdon will live a +2 ice punch from lucario and OHKO back with earthquake, while gliscor will not.

The spreads I would suggest are:

Tyranitar @ Choice band
Jolly
252At/252Spe/6Hp
Earthquake
Aqua tail
Pursuit
Stone edge

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Impish
252Hp/168Def/88Sdef
Earthquake
Slack off
stealth rock
roar/toxic

The choice between roar and toxic is dependent upon whether you need a reliable Phazer, or the ability to poison things that are not hit by toxic spikes (bar skarm and bronzong to name a few). Phazing will also rack up passive damage that will help heatran a lot late game. This set is also a decent check on specks jolteon so long as it is locked on (or you predict) thunder bolt, so you can gain a free switch in and roar away the counter switch for more entry hazard damage. This also relieves rotom from having to sponge electric attacks as often.

Overall a very interesting team

When I saw that you had started a RMT, I just had to return the favor.

Smeargle: I can't say much to help you with your lead, looks creative but effective. One thing . . . NO one on your team resists Stealth Rock, yet you have no way to stop Stealth Rock leads.

Latias: If I were you, I would trick an Item off of Latias last. As you mave have seen in my RMT, Latias serves as a fine revenge killer, while no other pokemon on your team fits this role. Reaching a speed of 525(!!), Timid seems like overkill. Modest will hit 478, which has always worked for my set. I would place Thunderbolt over Dragon Pulse, because Latias is a hit and runner on our teams, and Draco Meteor is more powerful than Dragon pulse.

Gliscor: I agree with you. Gliscor did not fit the team. What you need is some sort of Rapid Spinner. You also could go for a Lucario check. I found a pokemon who fit the role, and you must be desperate. This took me forever. Please allow me to explain my beliefs. *Exhales* Here we go.

Armaldo @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 12HP/252ATK/244SPEED
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Superpower

. . . I know. Speed with Scarf peaks at 307, which outspeeds max Speed Lucario (306). With a respectable base 100 Defense, a max attack life orb Swords Dance Extremespeed does 29.6% - 35.0%. Needless to say, Superpower is effective for a KO. Not pretty. Once lucario is gone, Armaldo will serve as an effective later game sweeper. Ugh.

Rotom-h: I personally would go for discharge over thunderbolt, for the extra 20% Paralyze rate. Heatran would love to have a free Lava Plume + Leftovers turn. Otherwise, I like it.