Metagross (Agiligross Update)

Hello, I got permission from Phil and eric to work on this as the first skeleton analysis of C&C.


Metagross
Status: Outlined. Working on full revamp

[SET]
name: Agiligross
move 1: Agility
move 2: Meteor Mash
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Zen Headbutt / ThunderPunch
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 196 Spe

Why this set deserves to be updated:
- Current spread lacks the ability to touch and outspeed Scarf Rotom which can easily end an Agiligross sweep
- Current spread fails to address outspeeding neutral base 100s at +1, and merely mentions it in the description while it should be the main spread.
- No mention of Zen Headbutt, perhaps one of the best options in move 4's slashitis slot -- if anything Ice Punch and Explosion should be mentioned in additional comments while Zen Headbutt is up in the analysis because it hits Zapdos, Rotom-a, and Swampert pretty hard for Neutral damage, which is the best Agiligross can usually get for the last slot without being specialized.

What to add as well:
- Mention a potential bulkier spread with Leftovers
- Mention Jolly to outspeed Scarf Infernape
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The current spread allows it to outspeed the standard CS Jirachi, forcing it to run more speed than the current analysis gives to outspeed it. Metagross is going to be outspeeding more threats with max speed, and it really can do without the bulk because the speed is much more important than the bulk, as Metagross would definitely like to sweeping rather than taking hits.

I'd like to hear your comments and suggestions before I work on the full update.

Isn't it ThunderPunch? Or does it not matter..

I just want to ask what the extra bulk did. That's the current EV spread that I am rolling around with and I like the extra bulk that it has. Granted I think the Def EVs can be placed somewhere else and some HP could be sacrificed for Spd. You need 448 Spd or greater to outspeed Rotom-A. I can test it out, though I guess the thought of 62 HP | 252 Atk | 194 Spe sounds pretty dumb in theory if the extra HP can't do anything extra.

Hey Plus, the point of trying out the skeleton was to post it in the Quality Control subforum like sets normally would be. After it gets approved, we move it here.

Edit: Here are my comments:

-Mention that Jolly can be used to outpace as much as Scarf +Spe Infernape.
-Perhaps discuss the bulkier spread and talk about how it could be used with Leftovers.

Other than that, this set looks fine to me. Good improvement. Let's wait on other QC members to weigh in.

discussed this set with phil, agility Metagross with an adamant nature is only required to have 196 speed EVs to insure beating +1 neutral nature base 100s. It also outpaces scarf rotom. The rest of the EVs imo should be dumped into HP to ease setting up on things that might be locked outrage/draco

Well I do realize that 196 is needed to outpace neutral base 100s, however I'm particularly concerned about Scarf Jirachi which is still pretty annoying to metagross, and it runs Jolly 176 which is outspeedable if you were to run max speed on Metagross. The extra bulk allows Metagross to take 51.1% - 60.3% from specs latias, while with no EVs it would be 55.1% - 65.1%. Personally I'd take the chance out being able to outspeed Scarf Jirachi rather than taking the 4% worth of extra bulk. Additionally, considering most of said EVs go down the drain when using Life Orb I'm still a bit iffy on this one.

I agree with your other suggestions however, phil.

Who runs only 176 speed on scarfrachi though... Most people just use max plus nature to risk speed tie against salamence. Iirc adamant on metagross doesn't suffice in outspeeding it or scarf flygon, two issues to metagross.

If the set for Scarf Jirachi on-site says 176 Spe, then that's absolutely wrong and needs to be changed. Nobody runs 176 Spe, like Sprinkles said. The extra speed on Adamant Metagross does not let him outpace anything extra, so the EVs are wasted. I will get the other QC members to weigh in on this when I see them online.

Lum Berry deserves to be slashed in imho, as it allows Metagross to take a Thunder Wave from the likes of Celebi, Blissey, etc. or a WoW from Rotom, which can ruin an Agiligross sweep.

I still think that Explosion deserves a slash; Zen Headbutt is arguably much better, but no matter how you slice it, the ability to take out basically anything if you're in a pinch will always be welcome. The additional Speed from Agility just makes it easier to fire off a last-ditch Explosion. So yeah I still think that Explosion wants a slash in the final slot, though Zen Heabutt and possibly Thunderpunch should be before it.

@ Phil: alright, we can change the jirachi spread and make it 196 then, but as for the other completely viable options such as Lum/Explosion, I'm just worried about making this agiligross similar to the current one where Leftovers/Lum/Life Orb is slashed into the items, and you can potentially have up to about 4-5 options in that last slot. Also, concerning this bulkier spread with leftovers, what particularly do you have in mind? The current spread uses their amount of HP EVs in order to lower Life Orb recoil, while this potential bulky agiligross spread isn't going to be using Life Orb. If you want to take away speed evs again, then you'll lose against Scarf Rotom which was part of the purpose in updating this set. Should I simply be outspeeding Scarftran, maxing attack and dumping everything else in HP and mention that instead?

Perhaps what i want is some more feedback as to what I should include as the set itself, and what deserves to be in additional comments, because honestly I don't think putting all these options in the final set is practical.

EDIT: thanks for laying down the hammer

They don't need to be lashed on, but just mention the viability of Lum and Explosion in Additional Comments. With that this set has been passed by QC. Our additions that you must include are:

1. Change Speed to 196
2. Mention Jolly in AC (196 Spe as well to beat +Spe +1 Base 100's)
3. Mention Bulky with Leftovers in AC
4. Mention the viability of Lum and Explosion in AC

I will now move this to the OU subforum where you can edit the full analysis into the OP. Good job, and good luck!

You'll also want some more EVs, X-Act's defense optimiser suggests 24 HP / 36 SpD but if there is something extremely important to survive (or if it is significantly more important to take either physical or special attacks) then use a different spread.

Locking under inactivity.

Here's Metagross's update. Then, Plus, if you would like to help Dr.Reid to write the Agility set, feel free to PM him saying so.