Team - No Definate Weakness

SirCumsAlot · May 6, 2010

Intro:

I started off needing a new offensive teams since all mine were out dated, and I hate semi-stall. I started this team with a Roserade Lead, and a Subroost Zapados. But I found them quite useless when I continued to Ladder. I haven't achieved a lot, I got to a cre of 1468 on Smogon, and on the TU leaderboard. Got to the top 10 in PO [really slow there]. Used it in a tourny lost in the finals. I'm just posting this team for the hell of it. I'm not going to use this team anymore. Theres no main goal for the team it's basicly take out all real threats and allow suicune to do the rest.

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Machamp @ Lum berry
252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 SpD
Adamant / No Guard
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Pay Back
- Bullet Punch

Best Anti-Lead in the game. I fell in love with this guy when I saw it in action. Alone this guy gets me 2-3 wins a game. Sometime people just run when they see what he can do. Dynamic Punch with No Guard is a life saver, it being stabbed and 100% accuracy is extremely good. Ice Punch helps me against Flying, Dragon, and Grass types. Pay Back is mainly for ghosts like Rotom's, and Gengars. With Lum Berry it lets me get a free Pay Back on them if they WoW. Bullet Punch doesn't do that much damage with Machamp since it's not stabbed, nor does he have Technician. Bullet Punch mainly helps me kill of Sashed Pokemon, like Azelf, and Aerodactyl.

- I usually Dynamic Punch to find out the item then go to Heatran or Rotom-w.

- Payback, then Bullet Punch.

- I hate him, mostly I Dynamic Punch, or go to Flygon to take the Trick.

- I Dynamic Punch all the way.

- Ice Punch then Bullet Punch.

- Dynamic Punch, then go to Suicune to Surf or Ice Beam.

- Dynamic Punch once, then go to Suicune.

- It can't do anything so I just Dynamic Punch.

Heatran @ Passho Berry
128 HP / 212 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest / Flash Fire
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Stealth Rocks

This Heatran is pro I used to run Shucca Berry, but I didn't find it as useful since i would still get KO'd by a EarthQuake since it's 4x.
Then I tryed Passho Berry it allows me to take water moves and Explode, if needed. It usually depends on what I have left. Earth Power is useful I can always get damage on pokemon weak to ground type moves and hurt Tyranitar Switch ins.
Explosion is only used on Waters and when I really need to. Fire Blast is stabbed really good when Flash Fire boosted like on a WoW from a Rotom. Fire Blast also allows me to deal with Steels. I have always thought of using Hidden Power [Grass] over Explosion since I could 2 hit KO all cune, and kill Swampert who has always switched in on me.
Stealth Rock is an obvious move and is needed on Heatran since I can't put it on my Anti-Lead Champ.

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
252 Hp / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Bold / Levitate
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
- Shadow Ball

Rotom is a life saver too, WoW is just pro especially when I get it on a physical sweeper. He is my main Gyarados counter, I have to run Max Defense to take it's non-boosted hits. If I get a WoW on Tyranitar or Scizor I can easily out stall them. The moves are simple but with a semi-twist. Thunderbolt is stab for water types, Shadow Ball is used over Sleep Talk since I don't find Sleep Talk as useful. Shadow Ball lets me take on Breloom easier.
Rest is a recovery move to stay a live obvious. WoW is just used to basicly cripple the foe's pokemon. This isn't my only way to deal with Gyrados I have a few other ways but they require real smart play. I've ran Pain Spilt over Rest before but I didn't really like it as much as rest. I have also tryed out Discharge over Thunderbolt but it's weaker and I get a para on pokemon I wan't to will-o-wisp like Tyranitar so I find Thunderbolt the safer move.

Scizor @ Choice Band
160 HP / 176 Atk / 24 Spe /148 SpDef.
Adamant / Technician
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Super Power
- U-Turn

Choice Band Scizor is really useful, for it's power, scouting ability and everything. I needed a good steel type on this team. The moveset is standard. Pursuit is for trapping like for a Latias which used Trick I would pursuit it. U-turn is a power scouting move it damages a lot of pokemon well enough allowing me to get a sweep with Suicune later on in the game. Bullet Punch is a Stabbed + Techinician boosted priority this helps me against any kind of hail teams or against any Ice type.
Super Power a hard hit mainly use it against Normal types, mainly Blissey. Not much to say it's a Scizor.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Levitate
- U-Turn
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Outrage

Scarf Flygon isn't seen much, but it is quite useful. With all these Latias's, Tyranitars, and Dragons running around he is really needed for the team.
I really like him since I don't need to worry about Calm-Mind Jirachi setting up only the verison without Sub, I can bring him in and Earthquake. This is really helpful for Scarf Tyranitar and Latias.
Earthquake is really used for pokemon weak to ground and yeah. Stone Edge I try to use over Outrage when I can but the miss rate hurts so I don't really use it. Outrage mainly for Latias and Dragons, it deals quite a lot of damage since it is stabbed. This guy have saved me from so many pokemon. Then U-Turn bring it in on a Tyranitar, Heatran, Latias and spam it forcing them out to switch.
I wanted to run Jolly but it didn't provide much power so I had to go with Adamant.

Suicune @ Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid / Pressure
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Calm Mind

Not the average Crocune. I like to run this set for three reasons. 1) Suicune serves as my main Salamence counter. 2) It can help me beat vaporeon. 3) I find Sleep Talk useless. With my luck I always Sleep Talk, Rests. Ice Beam helps me take out those annoying Salamence's. Crocune usually comes in the end to finish off annoying pokemon like scarf Jirachi stuck on Iron Head. It makes me laugh. Rest like I said before a basic
recovery move. Calm Mind helps me sweep them pokemon so I win the battle. Ice Beam acts as my second attack helping me take out whatever resists Water type moves, and yes this is a good Suicune.

RMT

SirCumsAlot · May 6, 2010

reserved for threat list.
Threat list

Defensive Threats

Blissey - Scizor, Machamp, or Heatran Explosion.

Umbreon - Machamp, Scizor, and Flygon

Bronzong - Heatran

Celebi - Flygon, Scizor, Heatran

Cresselia - Flygon, and Scizor

Forretress - Heatran and Suicune set up.

Gliscor - Suicune and Machamp

Tentacruel - Flygon

Dusknoir - Heatran, and Rotom-w

Gyarados - Rotom-w

Hippowdon - Suicune

Jirachi - Flygon and Heatran

Rotom-A - Heatran

Skarmory - Heatran

Snorlax - Scizor and Machamp

Suicune - Rotom-W and Heatran

Swampert - Scizor, Rotom-w, and Suicune

Tyranitar - Flygon, Scizor, and Suicune

Vaporeon - Rotom-W

Zapdos - REAL PAIN, basicly Heatrans Fireblast

Offensive Threats

Azelf - Flygon/Scizor

Breloom - Flygon, Scizor, Rotom-W, and Heatran

Gengar - Scizor

Gyarados - Rotom-W

Heatran - Suicune, and Flygon

Dragonite - Suicune, Rotom-W can take DD versions.

Aerodactyl - Scizor, and Suicune

Infernape - Suicune

Jolteon - Flygon

Ninjask - Scizor, Suicune, Heatran

Porygon-z - Scizor

Rhyperior - Suicune, and Rotom-W

Smeargle - Scizor

Heracross - Depends on moves if choiced Scizor can always revenge if stuck to a Night Slash Heatran.

Latias - Scizor, and Flygon.

Kingdra - Heatran Explodes

Lucario - Rotom-W

Machamp - Scizor can revenge it, and Heatran can explode.

Magnezone - Heatran and Flygon.

Mamoswine - Scizor

Metagross - Heatran

Salamence - Suicune, and Scizor can revenge

Electivire - Flygon and Heatran

Flygon - Scizor, and Suicune

Togekiss - Rotom-W

Weavile - Machamp, and Scizor

Scizor - Heatran, and Rotom-W

Starmie - Flygon, and Rotom-W to rapid spin verisons

Tyranitar - Flygon, Suicune, and Scizor

Zapdos - PAIN! if it's life orb I usually just Stone Edge it with Flygon

Alakazam - Scizor Bullet Punch.

Abutorn · May 6, 2010

Hey SirCumsAlot,

I got a message for getting this team rated so here it goes, On Heatran you have a similiar set that it meant to trap Bulky waters and demolish them with explosion but the EVs are a little bit bulky, The set is HeaTrap it's used to lock on Bulky waters or Blissey with Magma storm which keeps the Pokemon in place then just Explode on some of it's counters if you're planning to Passho Berry which works totally fine and allows Suicune to produces a slow but calm sweep. Here's the EVs and moveset you'd might like to try that clearly works good from where your team is coming from.

Heatran @ Passho Berry
Nature: Modest
EVs: 128 HP / 212 SpA / 168 Spe
Moveset: Magma Storm, Earth Power, Stealth Rock, Explosion

On Rotom Wash you don't need 252 on Defense that just makes you vulnerable on Special attacks to anything since you don't really have a Special defensive wall at all to take hits currently on your team, using these EVs still make it useful to take down Gyarados so you don't have to mainly focus on just Gyarados since it's not really dangerous even if Gyarados gets a Dragon Dance since you have Flygon to Revenge kill it and then you have Suicune to wall it for sometime depending on the variant. So you definitely want to try out 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD which provides help on both sides of Special and Physical attacks. The other thing that I really thing you should use is Sleep talk over Shadow ball since you don't really need it due to you're not going to be having ghost problem since you already have 2 really strong physical attacks that can take any ghost easily for the most part. Sleep talk provides something to take the status and able to reply back with anything that comes out of Rest talk.

On Flygon you definitely want to try Jolly nature because if Suicune is out you're totally screwed over by Dragon Dance Salamence your whole team by that time will always be relying on Suicune to be taking down the Dragon Dancers but if it isn't available your whole team could get badly hurt by DD Mence. So your 2nd option could be Jolly Flygon hoping to outspeed The Salamence and you're not going to be worried about that. Jolly isn't much different from Adamant it's only a jump from 328 to 299 which won't be affecting much at all, you're just going to be wasting your Item if you're going to be using Choice scarf while having adamant nature since you're not suppose to be worrying about power only speed when you're relying on something to clean up. Another small nitpick is you might want to try out Thunderpunch reason being 80% accuracy isn't so reliable but against Gyarados Thunderpunch has 100% accuracy plus it'll be doing way more damage and providing the sure OHKO, Plus you can deal with Salamence by Outrage so there isn't much of a reason to have Stone Edge over Thunderpunch.

Good luck SirCumsAlot, and hope out my analysis helped out your team in the future.

SirCumsAlot · May 6, 2010

Abutorn said:
Hey SirCumsAlot,

I got a message for getting this team rated so here it goes, On Heatran you have a similiar set that it meant to trap Bulky waters and demolish them with explosion but the EVs are a little bit bulky, The set is HeaTrap it's used to lock on Bulky waters or Blissey with Magma storm which keeps the Pokemon in place then just Explode on some of it's counters if you're planning to Passho Berry which works totally fine and allows Suicune to produces a slow but calm sweep. Here's the EVs and moveset you'd might like to try that clearly works good from where your team is coming from.

Heatran @ Passho Berry
Nature: Modest
EVs: 128 HP / 212 SpA / 168 Spe
Moveset: Magma Storm, Earth Power, Stealth Rock, Explosion

On Rotom Wash you don't need 252 on Defense that just makes you vulnerable on Special attacks to anything since you don't really have a Special defensive wall at all to take hits currently on your team, using these EVs still make it useful to take down Gyarados so you don't have to mainly focus on just Gyarados since it's not really dangerous even if Gyarados gets a Dragon Dance since you have Flygon to Revenge kill it and then you have Suicune to wall it for sometime depending on the variant. So you definitely want to try out 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD which provides help on both sides of Special and Physical attacks. The other thing that I really thing you should use is Sleep talk over Shadow ball since you don't really need it due to you're not going to be having ghost problem since you already have 2 really strong physical attacks that can take any ghost easily for the most part. Sleep talk provides something to take the status and able to reply back with anything that comes out of Rest talk.

On Flygon you definitely want to try Jolly nature because if Suicune is out you're totally screwed over by Dragon Dance Salamence your whole team by that time will always be relying on Suicune to be taking down the Dragon Dancers but if it isn't available your whole team could get badly hurt by DD Mence. So your 2nd option could be Jolly Flygon hoping to outspeed The Salamence and you're not going to be worried about that. Jolly isn't much different from Adamant it's only a jump from 328 to 299 which won't be affecting much at all, you're just going to be wasting your Item if you're going to be using Choice scarf while having adamant nature since you're not suppose to be worrying about power only speed when you're relying on something to clean up. Another small nitpick is you might want to try out Thunderpunch reason being 80% accuracy isn't so reliable but against Gyarados Thunderpunch has 100% accuracy plus it'll be doing way more damage and providing the sure OHKO, Plus you can deal with Salamence by Outrage so there isn't much of a reason to have Stone Edge over Thunderpunch.

Good luck SirCumsAlot, and hope out my analysis helped out your team in the future.

Thank you very much for the rate Abutorn. I really do like the HeaTrap set it seems a lot more effective than the current one I'm running now. I will test that out. The Ev spread on Rotom is worth testing, but I'm not completely sold on Sleep Talk. I will switch Flygons Nature from Jolly, and will run Thunder Punch. Once again Thank you for the rate Abutorn.

Enygma · May 7, 2010

Hiya! I noticed that you requested Snorlaxe to rate your team for you, but since Snorlaxe hasn't yet, I guess I will try to handle it.

Well, this team is indeed a pretty solid team, boasting resistances to every single type is no simple feat.

I just want to ask one thing: have you ever been swept by CM Raikou or Jolteon? On paper, it seems like you have those 2 threats handled pretty well, however, nothing else on your team likes to take hits from those 2 and your team relies heavily on Scarfgon to stop it. The same can also be said for CM Rachi if it has not already set up several CM's, as well as Lucario and Mence etc. There is nothing much to suggest to patch those up, since it would mess up your team's synergy, but you don't see Jolteon and Raikou much on the ladder anyways. Just pointing out some possible troubles you might face.

One of your sets that really bothers me is your Suicune. It looks like a hybrid between a CM set and a RhysTalk set. And you say that Cune is your answer to DD Mence. The problem with that is that without Sleep Talk, it will become set-up fodder for 2-4 turns since it can't attack. And without Sleep Talk, Gyarados can come in and DD, thus making itself faster than your Adamant Flygon. To help this, I will suggest you put Sleep Talk on Suicune somewhere, or just use the CM set altogether. Another suggestion would be to use Jolly > Adamant for Flygon. You might also want to put Sleep Talk on Rotom for the same reason as Suicune, or just use the standard set.

Hopefully I helped..

jc104 · May 7, 2010

I would suggest a small change to the spread on your Machamp. Machamp only needs 16spdef EVs to survive Psychic from Naive Azelf. Therefore you can afford to invest more into attack, which you will find useful against opponents like Swampert who are not 1 or 2HKOed by your attacks. You might want to consider, however, a small investment in speed, since Machamp has risen to be a very common lead, and outrunning an enemy Machamp can make all the difference.

Pollux-Castor · May 7, 2010

This is a pretty solid team and after those 2 helped you I don't know what I can add except, using Dynamicpunch on Aerodactyl is better than Ice Punch. They do the same damage except Dpunch has a chance to confuse. Not that it matters for Aerodactyl himself because of Bullet Punch, but in case the opponent switches out because it is a bad matchup it is better to hit the switch-in with Dpunch than Ice Punch (they will get confused).

And also, MisaCampo is wrong on one technicality. 252 Jolly Gyarados does not outspeed 252 Adamant Flygon. Which means you don't really need to change Flygon to Jolly.

Good Luck!

Nosferalto · May 7, 2010

Solid team. The only evident problem would be SD Lucario. As of now, SD Lucario massacres your team, as it sets up on Scizor locked onto Pursuit and Flygon locked onto Stone Edge. Lucario boasts x4 resistances to both of those moves so it wouldn't be wise to stay in. After getting a Swords Dance, Lucario will sweep your team clean without any retaliation. Close Combat disposes of Machamp, Heatran, Scizor and Suicune while Extreme Speed takes care of Flygon and Crunch hits Rotom-H for SE damage for the OHKO after a Swords Dance.

Now, I dislike your defensive Suicune set especially with Rest because you waste two turns sleeping which will also slow down the offensive momentum of this offensive team. In order to solve your Lucario weakness, I would reccomend using an offensive Suicune which outspeeds Adamant Lucario, does not fear Extreme Speed and has STAB Surf. Just use Surf | Ice Beam | HP Electric | Calm Mind with 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe and Leftovers or Life Orb depending on your personal preference. The Speed EVs allow Suicune to outspeed max speed Adamant Lucario as well as Timid Heatran. This set also gives you extra insurance against Gyarados which could be problematic since a +1 Waterfall 2HKOes Rotom-H. Also, since SD Lucario is problematic, you can also try changing your Rotom-H's EV Spread to 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 Spe which is a good Speed stat to hit as it allows you to outspeed Adamant Lucario once more. If you do use this spread; use a moveset of Overheat | Thunderbolt | Will-o-Wisp | Shadow Ball wich works well on this offensively natured team unlike your previous Resttalk set.

On Flygon, Stone Edge has limited use and it's shaky accuracy makes it a risky choice. Thunder Punch should definitely be considered in this slot as it has much better accuracy and hits Gyarados for x4 SE damage.
Also, I would like to suggest an alternative more bulky EV Spread for Scizor as it is your answer to specially oriented threats such as Latias, Gengar and Starmie ..etc... Go for 160 HP / 176 Atk / 24 Spe /148 SpDef. This is your standard CB set with a slightly different EV. Basically, you loose 10% of Attacking power (still hits quite hard don't worry) in exchange for having a higher chance of battling Latias. If I recall correctly, you will always survive 2 Choice Specs Draco Meteor and survive Hidden Power Fire. This generally helps trap and kill Latias sufficiently better.

Good Luck.

Delko · May 7, 2010

I agree with jc104 about a small EV's change for your Machamp. 240 HP, 248 Atk, 4 Spe, 16 SDef would be optimal for him.

SirCumsAlot · May 7, 2010

Okay guys thank you very much for the rates. I'm going test out all your suggestions tonight, but Nosferalto I was thinking the exact same set when I was in mass at school today. Also I'm going to try Abutorn's set of the Rotom and your set Nosferalto. Once again Thank you very much guys.

corncake22 · May 7, 2010

It seems like you have a weakness too MixApe and I recommend ScarfLatias over Scarf Flygon. Latias can take any hit coming from Infernape as long as it has above 40 percent health and KO with a surf. I also recommend a bit bulkier version so you can take repeated hits. 56hp/252Speed/196SpA.

For the most part your team is solid. SD Luke is your only big threat but as long as you have Scizor after 2 CC's it will probably get killed from a BP. GL

SirCumsAlot · May 7, 2010

Mix-Ape cannot touch Flygon without Mach Punch and I can Earthquake of force it out with a U-turn.

Delko · May 7, 2010

Suicune is also a very reliable counter against mixape. Infernape is no problem at all!

SirCumsAlot · May 7, 2010

I have made a few changes.
1) Flygon's Nature has been changed to Jolly.
2) Thunder Punch has been added over Stone Edge.
3) Suicune is changed to 252 Hp / 40 Def / 216 Spe.
4) Heatran has been changed to HeaTrap.

SirCumsAlot · May 8, 2010

Bump.

Team - No Definate Weakness

Humblest person ever