Team F.A.I.L.U.R.E. (a OU RMT)

Team F.A.I.L.U.R.E. (a suspect RMT) Updated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how to post images but I see you have messed up. First what I saw was bad was the Starmie. Hydro Pump is not a good move. Surf will do more. Calculate 2 surfs have 140 stab, and hydro pump gives you 180 stab. So obviously 140x 2 is greater than 180. That should be your rapid spinner if I were to use it. If you wanted a toxic spiker, Forretress is pretty good in OU and it has RS leaving Starmie to be able to attack. If you create a wall for Forretress, 3x Spikes, 1x Toxic Spikes, plus your SR from lead, It can reduce most pokemon's HP to half. And after your done with the set up, I would either put Pursuit, or Explosion as last move. I myself would explode seeing very little use in bring forrestress back out. Snorlax makes a good wall but you make it an attacker which is pretty intresting. Also I like how you use Swampert as your Snorlax, but isn't it alittle fragile? Celebi can stay as a Lead to counter many other leads in OU. Many more but little time :D

TrainerJon said:

I don't know how to post images but I see you have messed up. First what I saw was bad was the Starmie. Hydro Pump is not a good move. Surf will do more. Calculate 2 surfs have 140 stab, and hydro pump gives you 180 stab. So obviously 140x 2 is greater than 180.

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hint: Hydro Pump needs no recharging, did you thought of hydro cannon?...hydro pump gives 180 STAB, with less PP and accuracy than Surf, but that's it. Surf can still 2HKO scarf tar, so Hydro Pump vs Surf is purely preference...(I guess Hydro Pump can 2HKO max hp ttar, too lazy to check that out, but who cares ^^)

my only suggestion for the team: use a spin blocker (a ghost type...)

luungoc2005 said:

hint: Hydro Pump needs no recharging, did you thought of hydro cannon?...hydro pump gives 180 STAB, with less PP and accuracy than Surf, but that's it. Surf can still 2HKO scarf tar, so Hydro Pump vs Surf is purely preference...(I guess Hydro Pump can 2HKO max hp ttar, too lazy to check that out, but who cares ^^)

my only suggestion for the team: use a spin blocker (a ghost type...)

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I have calculated. The expected power of surf over 2 turns is 142.5*2 = 285
The expected power of Hydro Pump (mean) over 2 turns is 180*0.32 + 360*0.64 = 288

So yeah Hydro Pump does a tiny bit more in long term.

There are a couple of problems with that calculation, purple. First of all, the death of pokemon is not factored in. Hydro Pump is better if you want to OHKO bulky Pokemon that cannot be OHKO'd by Surf, or do damage to walls that switch in. However, if you want to use Starmie against offensive teams with squishier pokemon, surf is preferable because there is no miss chance, and the extra damage of Hydro Pump is wasted.

The best way to mathematically measure pokemon death is to assign a theoretical value to wasted damage; i.e. damage beyond that which kills a pokemon. Usually I call this value O(m), for overkill of (move). The rough overkill formula for all pokes that are attacked n times by Hydro Pump/Surf is:

O(Surf) = 285 * n * Damage Formula - Weighted Avg Pokemon HP
O(Pump) = 360 * n * Damage Formula - Weighted Avg Pokemon HP

N should be the weighted average number of attacks needed to KO an average pokemon using Hydro Pump. I say weighted average because you have to use your judgement and decide which pokes are more important to kill.

If we subtract the weighted pokemon HPs / Damage Formula from the average power of Hydro Pump and resubmit that to the expected power formula, you'll find that as n increases, overkill makes it increasingly less damaging than Surf, and that the sweetspot would be 1 or a little better than 1, where Surf's underkill is more of an issue than Hydro Pump's overkill.

We can surmise that Hydro Pump is the better attack only if you really really need certain OHKOs, and often is worse even if you need certain 2HKO's because it will only net them 65ish % of the time

purple crobatchop said:

I have calculated. The expected power of surf over 2 turns is 142.5*2 = 285
The expected power of Hydro Pump (mean) over 2 turns is 180*0.32 + 360*0.64 = 288

So yeah Hydro Pump does a tiny bit more in long term.

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It's better do show that over a sequence of 100 turns, it makes for simple maths and is easier for other people to understand as well as realistic. You hit 80/100 is possible but 1.6/2 is not possible.

I would suggest trick over physchic on starmie. 1 because a starmie locked into physchic is a dead starmie. Tyranitar switches in and uses pursuit for a garunteed KO. Metagross 4x resists it and weavile is also imune to it. 2 because you have a lot of choice users so you may need to get rid of the scarf against a more stallish team.

About your image problem. I don't believe that smogon is capable of hosting images that regular users submit in posts, that come from their own hard drives. #1, I can't imagine that would be very secure for the users, and #2 since smogon is a very popular site, your upload limit on whatever internet provider you have could be quickly reached. You use the image command by linking to images from another web page (check the stickies for good sites), and that always works for me.

Also, you can get images of type charts from psypokes. Though you may have to take a screenshot of that and upload it to something like photobucket to display it here.

I have to go now, so I'll be back with thoughts on the team later.

You need a spinner on this team, considering a good shuffler can rack up damage. Only Starmie and Pert can remove their status conditions. Paralysis can easily make Heatran useless, and the same goes for toxic on Snorlax. I suggest changing your Starmie to a more defensive Pokemon:
Starmie @ Leftovers
136HP, 156Def, 216 Spe (Timid Nature)
~ Surf
~ Thunderbolt
~ Recover
~ Rapid Spin

comatthew6 said:

You need a spinner on this team, considering a good shuffler can rack up damage. Only Starmie and Pert can remove their status conditions. Paralysis can easily make Heatran useless, and the same goes for toxic on Snorlax. I suggest changing your Starmie to a more defensive Pokemon:
Starmie @ Leftovers
136HP, 156Def, 216 Spe (Timid Nature)
~ Surf
~ Thunderbolt
~ Recover
~ Rapid Spin

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Okay, I try that out, However I won't have a reliable killer for DD mence, or DD Dos, not to mention the uncommon DD nite. I will also try out fortress instead of skarmory well. I prefer the most powerful moves possible(that is with out rechargeing and such) I switched Psychic to Trick, and It has really helped out against blissey, and other walls. I also considering having Choice scarf rotom instead of starmie.

I just realised I fought this team 3 times already,lol.

Some minor suggestions though: run HP ice on heatran because HP grass is meant for those bulky waters who could be killed by explosion. This gives you a decent check on dragons when starmie gave up it scarf. The cursepert would like sleeptalk over avalanche since resting for 2 turns might give your opponent some set-up opportunities.

Good luck.

greenstreet said:

The cursepert would like sleeptalk over avalanche since resting for 2 turns might give your opponent some set-up opportunities.

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Thank you, I will try cursepert as a status absorber, however, I dont really like that it would only one attacking move: Earthquake, a move that many pokemon are immune to.

You really need a spin blocker such as Rotom over Snorlax. It prevents yur spikes being spun away. Rotom also cripples physical attackers with Will-o-wisp and can handle Buky Waters with Thunderbolt.

I am also unsure about haveing both Heatran and Starmie scarfed. I suggest a Sub Heatran since it can control the tempo of the match and allow you to predict much easier. Also I fell that Lucario is not so much of an issue since it canot reliable set up on many things agaisnt your team. (Especially with Rotom over Snorlax)

Have a Nice Day!

ginganinja said:

You really need a spin blocker such as Rotom over Snorlax. It prevents yur spikes being spun away. Rotom also cripples physical attackers with Will-o-wisp and can handle Buky Waters with Thunderbolt.

I am also unsure about haveing both Heatran and Starmie scarfed. I suggest a Sub Heatran since it can control the tempo of the match and allow you to predict much easier. Also I fell that Lucario is not so much of an issue since it canot reliable set up on many things agaisnt your team. (Especially with Rotom over Snorlax)

Have a Nice Day!

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I will try out definitely try out sub heatran. The problem with replacing Snorlax, is its my main physical sweeper, Blissey totally wall most of my team. Heatran will have to explode, or possibly swampert could possiby set up.

Blissey isnt going to be much of a problem, Heatran can explode on it, starmie can trick its scarf into and cursepert gets happy by setting-up. The only I could see pose a threat now is Suicune. Once skarmory is gone or weakened it can set-up, then again starmie could trick its scarf. But stall teams usually use blissey and suicune together(or that's just me).

greenstreet said:

Blissey isnt going to be much of a problem, Heatran can explode on it, starmie can trick its scarf into and cursepert gets happy by setting-up. The only I could see pose a threat now is Suicune. Once skarmory is gone or weakened it can set-up, then again starmie could trick its scarf. But stall teams usually use blissey and suicune together(or that's just me).

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True, suciune would be a very large threat. I also think Gyarardos would be a pretty large threat. But rotom should be able take most of the variants on, with the exception of CM cune.

Hey I got your Pm, I think I can help.

One thing CursePert enjoys to no end is Toxic Spikes. You said you had been considering a Roserade lead, and I say that's a great idea. Give Skarmory SR over Brave Bird.

You say that Heatran is for stopping Lucario, Mixape and Gengar. I think you should replace him with Rotom-A with his own scarf, as he can revenge all of the above threats and be your spin blocker, something you need on a spikes/sr/possibly tspikes team.

That's all I got, good luck with the team.

Toxic Spork said:

Hey I got your Pm, I think I can help.

One thing CursePert enjoys to no end is Toxic Spikes. You said you had been considering a Roserade lead, and I say that's a great idea. Give Skarmory SR over Brave Bird.

You say that Heatran is for stopping Lucario, Mixape and Gengar. I think you should replace him with Rotom-A with his own scarf, as he can revenge all of the above threats and be your spin blocker, something you need on a spikes/sr/possibly tspikes team.

That's all I got, good luck with the team.

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I have tested Roserade, I don't like it, even though its quite reliable, its just too frail. The increasingly common Machamp leads totally pwn it. I dont want a sucuide lead. I am now going to test Fortress or Drapion. I have replaced snorlax(which I thought was the weakest link) with Rotom. I am thinking the boosting sweeper set would be the best. I am also not sure which rotom would be best. I really like Heatran because it greatly benefits from Toxic spikes, and I have now Put HP Ice on it, to kill Dragons.

The One said:

I have tested Roserade, I don't like it, even though its quite reliable, its just too frail. The increasingly common Machamp leads totally pwn it. I dont want a sucuide lead. I am now going to test Fortress or Drapion. I have replaced snorlax(which I thought was the weakest link) with Rotom. I am thinking the boosting sweeper set would be the best. I am also not sure which rotom would be best. I really like Heatran because it greatly benefits from Toxic spikes, and I have now Put HP Ice on it, to kill Dragons.

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I have decided on Drapion as the lead and the rotom form and moveset. Does anyone see any other possible changes?

Ok so i got your VM

Although you mentioned specs jolt won't give you problems, after running some calculations here are the results:

Darpion taking a t-bolt - 76.2% - 90.1%
Skarm taking a t-bolt - 122.2% - 144.3%
Rotom-W taking a shadow ball - 85.6% - 101.2%
Heatran taking a t-bolt - 68.1% - 80.2%
Starmie taking a t-bolt - 180.9% - 213.7%
Swampert taking a hp grass - 80.2% - 95%

All of these calculations are without SR factored in, so heatran is the only poke that can gurantee a KO on it, and since I see a lot of jolteon's paired with gyarados, heatran will not live too long. I suggest a choice scarf flygon or gliscor somehwere or if you don't mind sandstorm then a hippowdon would work in the same way as a curse+rest talk pert.

Good Luck!

KidX said:

Ok so i got your VM

Although you mentioned specs jolt won't give you problems, after running some calculations here are the results:

Darpion taking a t-bolt - 76.2% - 90.1%
Skarm taking a t-bolt - 122.2% - 144.3%
Rotom-W taking a shadow ball - 85.6% - 101.2%
Heatran taking a t-bolt - 68.1% - 80.2%
Starmie taking a t-bolt - 180.9% - 213.7%
Swampert taking a hp grass - 80.2% - 95%

All of these calculations are without SR factored in, so heatran is the only poke that can gurantee a KO on it, and since I see a lot of jolteon's paired with gyarados, heatran will not live too long. I suggest a choice scarf flygon or gliscor somehwere or if you don't mind sandstorm then a hippowdon would work in the same way as a curse+rest talk pert.

Good Luck!

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Wooo, thats scary, specs Jolteon appears very strong. I will especially try out the Flygon. I dont want to replace starmie because It is very important, my only pokemon with Trick, and a water resist. It also can revenge kill Gyarados, salamence, and dragonite(well at least if it has at least 60% HP). Which pokemon do you suggest I replace with Flygon/gliscor?

Really nice team! The members above helped you improve this to higher level. I can't pick up a direct threat.
I don't see how Specs Jolteon is a threat. You've two Scarfed pokemon out speeding it and one immune to its STAB. Now the purpose of Cursepert is to ..well..curse. It needs great offense but Cursepert is mostly know for its defensive sides and how monsterious it turns with attack boosts. A Bulkier EV spread like 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD would be helpful for taking LO Starmie's Hydro Pumps and other moves similar to it. LO Starmie's Hydro Pump does about 42.2% - 50.3% to your Swampert. With 252 HP EVs with allow you to live 2 Hydro Pumps 100% of the time! But it doesn't make any difference since Cursepert can Kill Starmie anyday! The more bulkier Swampert gets the more chances of it defeating common threats such as Crocune. Even a +6 Earthquake does about 92.3% - 108.7% to Crocune. Suicune will set up before you Curse 6 times. With 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD you'l survive a +3 Surf from Suicune (71.3% - 84.7%). You have other ways to deal with Suicune so I'm not complaining too much about it. Another good options would be to Focus Sash Drapion. Just a choice it does't really make that much of a difference. Most leads carry EQ so it's good to be cautious. Skarmory has all the whirl-winding power so use Earthquake on Drapion to counter Heatran of course. If Sub-Machamp is causing you trouble then how about replacing Heatran for a Celebi? It also helps you take of Breloom. Celebi will not be the best counter to Machamp without Psychic! Just try some Pokemon over Heatran since most of what it counters is already taken care by Rotom! Specs Fire Blast is a 1 hit KO on a Sub-Machamp! This team looks pretty good overall so just keep testing all the suggestions our members suggest. You'll perfect this team soon for sure.
Good Luck

I noticed a slight...okay, rather major weakness to Choice Specs Jolteon. I think I have a set that can help with that, and it won't be hurting the team too badly (three immune to Sandstorm).

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Careful/Impish
EVs: 252 HP | 52 Atk | 32 Def | 172 SpD

• Curse
• Slack Off
• Earthquake
• Stone Edge

This set has amazing stalling power, and does the same thing as Swampert, but without the 4x weakness to Grass, or needing to use Rest. If this set doesn't work, I'd like to suggest a Stockpile Hippowdon.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Impish
EVs: 176 HP | 84 Def | 248 SpD

• Stockpile
• Slack Off
• Roar
• Protect

Now, unlike the set on Smogon, this set is running Protect over an attacking move. The reason is quite obvious. One way or another, you will be shut down by something faster, with access to Taunt. At least with Protect, you stall out some more Toxic damage, more Leftovers recover, and more Sandstorm damage on your opponent. Protect also scouts for Trick Pokemon, who can ruin Hippowdon in a single move.

I would also recommend swapping Drapion out for Roserade as a Lead.

Roserade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe

• Sleep Powder
• Toxic Spikes
• Leaf Storm
• Hidden Power [Fire]

This set can set up Toxic Spikes much more reliably than Drapion, who can be quickly out-sped and left with nothing to do but use Crunch or Earthquake. I know that you don't like it, but the only other real choice is to use Smeargle, which completely sucks for setting up anything.

That's about everything I could think of at the moment. I wish you the best of luck with this team.

Hey, I got your VM.

Well, team is pretty straight forward. But I'm not sure about Drapion. I've tried it in OU and it was just... ugh. I would highly suggest you replace it with Roserade. Its faster and it has access to Sleep Powder which is a great support move.

Roserade @ Focus Sash | 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA | Timid Nature
Hidden Power [Fire] | Toxic Spikes | Sleep Powder | Leaf Storm

I would consider Specs on Starmie instead of Scarf. It hits like a truck and can OHKO Tyranitar but Scarf will do only 63.7% - 76% to it. I also prefer Specs to Scarf because if you accidentally trick the wrong thing, you don't end up maybe helping it.

Other than that I can't see too many things I would change. Good luck.

I would change Starmie back to a Scarf set, simply because mixed DDmence will wreck your team after a DD. Scarf Starmie will outspeed +1 Mence and Gyarados, and proceed to OHKO with Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, respectively, while it still holds the power to 2HKO most T-Tar with Hydro Pump, so they cannot switch in easily.

You may want to move Blissey's SpDef EVs to Def, and change its nature from Bold to Calm, because I cannot think of anything that those EVs protect you against, but I may be wrong.

I noticed a slight...okay, rather major weakness to Choice Specs Jolteon. I think I have a set that can help with that, and it won't be hurting the team too badly (three immune to Sandstorm).

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Careful/Impish
EVs: 252 HP | 52 Atk | 32 Def | 172 SpD

• Curse
• Slack Off
• Earthquake
• Stone Edge

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WoW, Hippowdon is a better curser, than Swampert Is, I like how Hippowdon doesnt have any quadruple weaknesses, and when times are desperate can also be a mixed wall. I swithed heatran to blissey, to combat all special attackers, so Jolteon shouldn't be so much of problem.

Roserade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe

• Sleep Powder
• Toxic Spikes
• Leaf Storm
• Hidden Power [Fire]

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This pokemon just didn't fit, its just too frail, though pretty frail. Thanks for rating the team :)

If Sub-Machamp is causing you trouble then how about replacing Heatran for a Celebi? It also helps you take of Breloom. Celebi will not be the best counter to Machamp without Psychic!

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With 3 physical walls on my team, and a ghost, Most fighting types dont give me much trouble anymore, except Infernape because its fire moves. Breloom is a lesser threat, but It usally takes down or severely damages at least one member of the team. Thanks for rating my team!

I would change Starmie back to a Scarf set, simply because mixed DDmence will wreck your team after a DD. Scarf Starmie will outspeed +1 Mence and Gyarados, and proceed to OHKO with Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, respectively, while it still holds the power to 2HKO most T-Tar with Hydro Pump, so they cannot switch in easily.

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Yeah, I was noticing that, So I switched it back and its no longer a huge threat. Thanks for rating my team!

Hello. Most of what can be said about this team has already been said, but the major weakness I see is to Machamp. You really don't have anything to counter it, especially since Hippowdon lacks significant Defense investment. Furthermore, Infernape will be quite menacing as Starmie lacks Recover and isn't a very sturdy Pokemon. For this reason I think you can drop the Specs and give it Leftovers. You can keep the moveset, just replace Trick with Recover. I would recommend some HP EVs as well, and something to consider is using Reflect. With Reflect, you can take physical hits very well and will have a much easier time handling Machamp. Simply set up Reflect as it hits you, Recover and Surf until it dies. On Forretress, I'd stick with Earthquake as it is helpful against Lucario trying to set up on you, Tyranitar, as well as Heatran if you hit them as they switch in. This could be very useful, as Heatran could potentially explode on Blissey leaving you to deal with a powerful special attacker. With Earthquake you can also KO Magnezone, so you don't really need Shed Shell, and Leftovers is extremely helpful when you want to set up all entry hazards against say a Surfing Swampert. I would also stick Ice Beam on Blissey to give you a pseudo counter to MixMence, otherwise you can't do significant damage to it and it can simply Roost off Stealth Rock damage. While I understand that Hippowdon is the basis of your team, I think you'd do a whole lot better with Swampert in its place.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Nature: Careful / EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
~ Curse / Waterfall / Rest / Sleep Talk

This Swampert helps you take status and will also help against Gengar and Infernape without Grass Knot. Swampert also does not bring in sandstorm, meaning Rotom-A can make more Substitutes and and all your Leftovers Pokemon can recover their health. Thanks to Rest, you don't have to worry about Toxic ruining your sweep or any other status for that matter like you do on Hippowdon. Swampert also isn't weak to Surf. Good luck.