OU WiFi Team Aces High

Hey, guys. Well, I’m new to Smogon, and I guess I can call this my first team. But I worked on this with my friend from school. In any case, on to the team. Basically, what we wanted to do with this team was create a team of balance. As you will see, I have 2 of every type of pokemon. 2 Physical Sweepers, 2 Special Sweepers, and 2 Walls. Actually this has become 3 Physical Sweepers (2 bulky(-er?) ones), same 2 Special Sweepers (one bulky, one glass cannon), and of course the one wall/lead/bulky water. I know how to battle, but we wanted to know how to make this team better. Haven’t kept track of my record with this team, but at the least, I’ve won 3 and lost 2 on Shoddy. Anyway, here it is.

Changes are in BOLD

Swampert @Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Relaxed nature
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Atk
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Beam
-Protect
Well, what to say here. It’s the standard MixPert set, right off the analysis page. Protect to scout for Choiced moves, (CBGross, you ain’t goin nowhere xP). Then, Stealth Rock to get things going. Avalanche just in case a grass type wants to come in and say hello. But I’m thinking it’s gonna change for something else… Any ideas?
This guy likes to draw in Grass type attacks, as I’ve said before, so that’s a “free” switch into Infernape, who dislikes Water, Psychic, Flying, and Ground Attacks, all of which don’t bother Swampert TOO much.

Thanks to ChaosSyn and Dominion for the change from Avalanche to Ice Beam


Infernape @Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Hasty nature
EVs: 172 Atk/144 SpA/192 Spe
-Grass Knot
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-Overheat

I used to have a fully physical Ape in this slot, but from the rates I've been getting it seems a MixApe is better for the team. EV's and moves pulled right from the StrategyDex, which give a nice balance between the two attacking spectrums, and some really good coverage. Grass Knot for the pain-in-the-ass Starmies, Stone Edge for the pain-in-the-ass flyers, and Close Combat and Overheat for STAB and more coverage.


Or should I keep the original Ape set which was:

Infernape @Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP

-Swords Dance
-Fire Punch
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge

Salamence @Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant nature
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
This is just a standard Mence using D-Dance. This is one of my physical sweepers and it has a nice type coverage. I think it’s a good switch in on physical sweepers since it has Intimidate and, I’ll also be able to set up at least 1 D-Dance which should have enough speed to do some decent sweeping with an Adamant nature. Lum Berry just in case anyone tries to Twave or Sleep Powder or anything and try to stop this guy's rampage.

In terms of synergy, Mence is a Dragon, obviously, sporting lots of resistances. I can come in on any resisted attack, which won't be too hard, and then DD on the switch. After that, just go to town. It can take any Ground, or Water attacks aimed at Ape, and Grass attacks aimed at Suicune.

Or should I have a Classic MixMence set in this slot, which would turn out as:

Salamence @Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Naive Nature
EVs: 80 HP/252 SpA/176 Spe

-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Brick Break
-Roost


Ideas regarding MixApe vs. MixMence would be greatly appreciated =)

Gengar @Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Timid nature
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Trick
-Focus Blast
Well, this is it, folks. ScarfGar is my revenge killer for anything that kills my sweepers. I’m gonna go on the assumption that my guy took a piece of his opponent with him, and this guy is here to just clean things up. Yet again I've changed what used to be Will-o-Wisp, but now I have Trick, so that I don't have to sacrifice any of the Speed or SpA that ScarfGar packs, and can then trade his stylish Scarf for something else. Life Orb, anyone? That way, he can deal just grab a new toy to play with and hit people with it as well. I have yet to come across a Pokemon that resists Ghost AND Fighting, so Shadow Ball and Focus Blast give optimum type coverage.

This guy and Infernape seem to synergize well, sharing a weakness to Psychic, but allowing Ape to come in on a Ghost type move aimed at this guy, or allowing this guy to come in on a predicted Earthquake aimed at Ape. He’s also really helpful with keeping the entry hazards I’ve set up on the field. I would be really sad to see all of my hard work just blown away in one turn. Thus, hello, Spin Blocker.

Yup, same guys. They've helped me out sooo much it's not funny. XD

Suicune @Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Timid nature
Evs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP
-Calm Mind
-Shadow Ball
-Surf
-Ice Beam
Suicune’s a beast in general (lol). But since I need to provide a description, here goes nothing. Suicune has such high defenses without EV investment that I can switch it into a resisted attack, and let it set up. Calm Mind after Calm Mind, and before you know it, this guy has swept an entire team before they can say LOL OFFENSIVE SUICUNE. The given moves hit 9 out of the 17 types super effectively. I decided to trade Hydro Pump for Surf just for the guaranteed hit, sacrificing that little bit of power.

In terms of synergy, it’s only weaknesses are Grass and Electric. Sure, Swampert and Suicune share a weakness to Grass, but that’s where Infernape comes in, and I can go right to Swampert for the immunity to Electric. Suicune can also take water attacks aimed at Infernape and Ice attacks aimed at Salamence

Scizor @Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature
EV's: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Complete redux from what I used to have. There used to be a Forretress in this spot, but after a smart post by Dominion, (thanks, man XD), changed to the king of OU. Sure, it's old, sure it's unoriginal. But hey, if it works, it works. This guy's an absolute beast. Tech-boosted STAB Bullet Punches, boosted again by Choice Band? Can you say Ouch? Pursuit works mindgames, am I gonna Bullet Punch? Are you gonna switch? I got you, wherever. Yeah, i know you've heard this song before, prolly a million times.

But the real beauty of this guy is his uninvested defenses. EVs give him enough HP to switch into SR as many times as he wants, which is important since I have no Rapid Spin... And his typing lets him take hits for the rest of the team, hit back, and just leave, and let someone else finish him out.

Well that’s my team. Sure it’s not perfect. Then again nothing is. Be nice, as this is only our first team, and our first time making an RMT. But at the same time, don’t hold back if you find something wrong. We want this to get better. But if all you have to say is “YOU SUCK” or “UBER NOOB,” don’t bother posting, since it’s just gonna take up space.

EDIT: Now that Salamence has been called Uber, I need a new suggestion for his space on the team. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Your team is a mix between stall and offense. In Gen 4, this generally doesn't work out so well. So, heres my opinion:

1. Salamence is sadly Adament. If it wasn't I'd suggest replacing Stone Edge with Fire Blast. Dragon Claw should be replaced with Outrage. It does 50% more damage that Dragon Claw. Even if a Steel type switches in, Outrage will deal high damage after a DD. Give it a shot. If you honestly dislike being stuck in an Outrage then keep Dragon Claw but after a DD, the damage is much higher with Outrage.

2. Suicune. It's 100% walled by Other Water type due to HP fire. Change it to HP Grass or HP Electric. HP Grass will hit Swampert but HP Electric will hit Gyarados. I would suggest CroCune but I think you want a more offensively driven team from what I'm seeing.

3. Forretress. I can see your love of spikes but if they arent doing anything too productive then they are wasting turns. Sure you might get a layer or two of spikes but was it really worth a slot that could have gone to another offensively oriented pokemon? Have you considered Scizor? Same typing. Just more offensively driven. Many different things can go here. Even Forretress can stay, but since this team isn't built around being pure stall. I feel that this slot would find better use being taken up by an Offensive pokemon. (Lucario, Scizor mabye?)

4. Infernape. Flare Blitz + Life Orb = suicide. Expecially after a Swords Dance. Replace it with Mach Punch, or Overheat. If you go with overheat (which will help you get through physical walls) then change your nautre to Naive. Perhaps Mixape in this slot? I like Infernape but people tend to forget that his defense is as good as a wet noodle. Expecially after a close combat and/or flare blitz.

5. Swampert. Give him Ice Beam over Avalanche. This will hit Salamence much aharder than Avalanche. Intimedate will weaken your physical movepool. Ice Beam is left unaffected -and- takes advantage of the typical Naive nature of Salamence.

Other than those little things, the team seems ok. I dislike Scarfgar but thats just my prejudice I believe so I won't say anything about him.

About your idea on Forretress, I see where you're going, and yeah, I can now see that it kinda slows down my team. But let's say I replace him. Aren't most of my guys gonna get screwed by SR and all them without Rapid Spin support? I totally get you, but I'm just wondering.

Swampert @Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Relaxed nature
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Atk
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Beam
-Protect/Roar/Rest

Avalance is a -4 priority, so you don't wanna lose ANY speed since he doesn't really have any to begin with and it's a lot weaker than Ice Beam. Protect is good for scouting, but roar might be helpful to force out those pesky grasses that try to switch in. Rest is also good for recovering esp with leftovers.


Infernape @Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Jolly nature
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP
-Swords Dance/Thunderpunch/Grass knot
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-Flare Blitz/Fire Blast/Fire Punch

I don't really like SD with Life Orb since usually you won't get to take more than 2 attacks and live. So you'd have to be pretty good with predicting a switch. And Flare Blitz isn't in my opinion a good option since with life orbs recoil it puts you in range of almost any poke getting a OHKO, so unless you're using him as a revenge killer then i'd switch to one of the other 2 attacks.

Salamence @Choice Band/Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant nature
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Dragon Dance/Fire Blast/Outrage
-Dragon ClawOutrage

DDMence's are good, but there's a lot of them circling around and Dragonite/Flygon/Kingdra are a lot more popular these days so you'll probably be wasting your time with a DD. Unless you predict the switch that is. I agree with dominion, Outrage will be much better than Dragon Claw, most pokes can't survive an outrage if they've taken SR damage too. I'd say Fire Blast and Outrage if you choose CBmence and Outrage and Dragon Claw if you go with Life Orb.

Gengar @Life Orb/Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Timid nature
EVs:252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP
-Shadow Ball
- Destiny BondThunderbolt/HP Ice/Explosion
-Wil-o-Wisp/Thunderbolt.
-Focus Blast

Scarfgar with Wil-o-Wisp isn't a good idea for revenge killing. so i would go with Life Orb if you want to keep Wisp and switch out destiny bond. If you want to keep that suicide idea then go with Explosion, but HP Ice and Thunderbolt have nice coverage so that is an option.

Suicune @Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Timid nature
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Calm Mind
-HP Electric
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam

Suicune isn't the best for pure attacking, so i would go with leftovers to take advantage of its awesome "walling" abilities. HP electric will come in more handy with the pokes that'll switch in on it that don't resist Ice/Water. Surf/Hydro Pump is up to you, but surf is more accurate with a loss of power.

Just some of my suggestions. Take them with a grain of salt since i'm not the best battler, but they were well thought out ideas. :)

Ummm... My ScarfGar has a Timid Nature... I don't think Explosion will be doing anything to anyone =/
As for your comments on Ape and Mence, the moves (Fire Blast on Mence and Grass Knot on Ape) won't be doing much either, since the natures are both dropping SpA as well...
Everything else seems pretty smart. Thanks for the rate, ChaosSyn! ^.^

lol, i forgot about natures :/

For Gengar: you could always run Hasty instead.

For mence: Fire Blast is strong enough even with the power loss. But you could always go lonely instead.

For ape: Grass knot could be replaced with HP Grass, and that would still put a good dent in anything even with the power loss.

Your team ins't SR weak. Salamence is weak to it. But everything else doesn't mind so no, you don't 'need' rapid spin. If you honestly feel like Rapid Spin is important, then try Rapid Spin Starmie. It provides a slew of attacks plus rapid spin. Problem is that Suicune is doing what Rapid Spin starmie would be doing if you decided to use it.

Lol Dominion it's funny you mention Rapid Spin Starmie. Cuz that was precisely what my Suicune replaced. But if you think that I really don't NEED Rapid Spin, then I guess it won't be TOO missed, and I can switch it with Scizor or something. Thanks for the rate! ^.^

You could always run a bulky suicune:

Suicune@leftovers
Calm/Bold
EVs: 252HP/128SpD/128Def
Toxic
Substitute
Rest/Surf/Protect
Roar/Ice Beam/Surf

I just made that set up right now so you can play with the moves and/or the EV spread, but its a base that could help you out.

Normally I don't just run down all the members when I rate a team, but for someone new as yourself, I think this is the best approach.
Swampert- Avalanache, sadly, is usually worse than Ice beam, because even with 120 power it doesn't do as muich damage (Salamence has Intimidate, Gliscor has higher physical defense, etc.) However, you should never run an all physical set with a speed reducing nature, that's silly, why not just use Impish? Either change the nature or the ice move (Ice beam is my recommendation).

Salamence- he's just begging for outrage, he has a lum berry and everything. I'm not really a fan of adamant mence either, who knows, you might win a speed tie with Flygon or Jirachi! It's usually worth it. I would recommend using Fire Blast, but stone edge actually doesn't look so bad, just watch out for Skarmory and Scizor. I guess it's a matter of preference, hitting Zapdos and Gyarados is important too.

Gengar- Please do not run Destiny bond on him, it makes him 100% set-up fodder. Will-o-wisp, while not standard, actually doesn't look so bad, so maybe keep that.

Suicune- If the game gave you Hp Fire, it's not the worse hidden power in the world... I do wish you had Electric though. Surf is usually better over Hydro Pump, because Suicune needs more comsistent damage. I personally do not like LO on Suicune and spring for Leftovers, but that's subjective as well.

As far as team building goes, 2-2-2 sounds really great on paper. But it's just not a good approach. Balance usually means using bulkier offensive Pokmoen, not glass cannon and stone walls. At your skill level, just running plain old offense is a good way to get a grasp of the metagame (stall is nigh impossible for beginners). Good luck.

ChaosSyn said:

You could always run a bulky suicune:

Suicune@leftovers
Calm/Bold
EVs: 252HP/128SpD/128Def
Toxic
Substitute
Rest/Surf/Protect
Roar/Ice Beam/Surf

I just made that set up right now so you can play with the moves and/or the EV spread, but its a base that could help you out.

Click to expand...

Well like Dominion said, I'm looking more for an offensive team. Yeah, Suicune makes one beast of a wall, but looking at it, i'm thinking it's gonna slow down the momentum a little bit. Just thinking right now, tho. Thanks for the suggestion.

Smith said:

Normally I don't just run down all the members when I rate a team, but for someone new as yourself, I think this is the best approach.
Swampert- Avalanache, sadly, is usually worse than Ice beam, because even with 120 power it doesn't do as muich damage (Salamence has Intimidate, Gliscor has higher physical defense, etc.) However, you should never run an all physical set with a speed reducing nature, that's silly, why not just use Impish? Either change the nature or the ice move (Ice beam is my recommendation).

Salamence- he's just begging for outrage, he has a lum berry and everything. I'm not really a fan of adamant mence either, who knows, you might win a speed tie with Flygon or Jirachi! It's usually worth it. I would recommend using Fire Blast, but stone edge actually doesn't look so bad, just watch out for Skarmory and Scizor. I guess it's a matter of preference, hitting Zapdos and Gyarados is important too.

Gengar- Please do not run Destiny bond on him, it makes him 100% set-up fodder. Will-o-wisp, while not standard, actually doesn't look so bad, so maybe keep that.

Suicune- If the game gave you Hp Fire, it's not the worse hidden power in the world... I do wish you had Electric though. Surf is usually better over Hydro Pump, because Suicune needs more comsistent damage. I personally do not like LO on Suicune and spring for Leftovers, but that's subjective as well.

As far as team building goes, 2-2-2 sounds really great on paper. But it's just not a good approach. Balance usually means using bulkier offensive Pokmoen, not glass cannon and stone walls. At your skill level, just running plain old offense is a good way to get a grasp of the metagame (stall is nigh impossible for beginners). Good luck.

Click to expand...

Well, thanks for that. Glad you got my message. Anyways, the Suicune thing keeps coming up, so I guess I'm gonna change SOMETHING. Shame I got Fire, I know, but in hindsight, i realized I could hit Scizor without switching out. And Gengar, too. I guess trading DBond for TBolt is the best way to go, seeing as he is Scarfed anyway.
Haha, about the 2-2-2 thing, it's really funny, cuz it just goes to show exactly how much I know, which apparently isn't much =/. The whole offense thing was what I was going for in the end, but I thought throwing in a couple of walls just as insurance called it balance. But thanks for setting me straight, now I'm less of a noob than I was before, right?

Jase D Ace said:

Well like Dominion said, I'm looking more for an offensive team. Yeah, Suicune makes one beast of a wall, but looking at it, i'm thinking it's gonna slow down the momentum a little bit. Just thinking right now, tho. Thanks for the suggestion.

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If you want a more offensive team then i wouldn't put suicune in at all. I would probably go with a life orb gyarados or something like that. Suicune won't pack that much of a punch unless you use like a toxic stall version. Just my opinion tho. I usually don't like stallish pokes, but i just got f***ed up by a toxic stall cune and that's making me want to put one in rotation :)

ChaosSyn said:

If you want a more offensive team then i wouldn't put suicune in at all. I would probably go with a life orb gyarados or something like that. Suicune won't pack that much of a punch unless you use like a toxic stall version. Just my opinion tho. I usually don't like stallish pokes, but i just got f***ed up by a toxic stall cune and that's making me want to put one in rotation :)

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Hmmm at first glance, LOGyara looks like a pretty good idea, but taking in what Dominion said earlier about removing Forretress and adding Scizor or something, it makes 2 pokes weak to SR with no way of removing... When I first read your post, I was like... Hmmm sounds like a plan, no real change in synergy, but then i realized it's Flying type gives it an SR weakness =/. I know i sound like I'm shooting down all your ideas, but I really value them, because I can learn from what you guys say, me being new and all. So, just keep them coming. I'm really sorry if I sound like a stubborn fool, I'm just trying to make sense of everything =/

Jase D Ace said:

Hmmm at first glance, LOGyara looks like a pretty good idea, but taking in what Dominion said earlier about removing Forretress and adding Scizor or something, it makes 2 pokes weak to SR with no way of removing... When I first read your post, I was like... Hmmm sounds like a plan, no real change in synergy, but then i realized it's Flying type gives it an SR weakness =/. I know i sound like I'm shooting down all your ideas, but I really value them, because I can learn from what you guys say, me being new and all. So, just keep them coming. I'm really sorry if I sound like a stubborn fool, I'm just trying to make sense of everything =/

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It's all good with me lol. I'm pretty new to all of this too. I have my team up to be rated and pretty much nobody is helping me out lol. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but since gyara is part water, isn't SR damage neutral? If that's the case, then LOgyara would work well in your team. And i would also put scizor in. He's a good solid poke. I don't play shoddy that much anymore since i found pokemon-online but if you want you can test your team out against me.

Okay, guys, really really dumb idea. If i give Cune a Choice Specs with Shadow Ball, HP Fire, Ice Beam and Hydro Pump, would that do anything? Its bulk and resistances let it switch in, and the moves hit 11 of 17 types super effectively, so i thought maybe? But then again, will it truly suffer without Calm Mind? Just askin, prolly a dumb idea, but one i thought was worth mentioning...

And how about replacing Ape's Life Orb with a Focus Sash to get off one SD, and then sweep? With that Sash though, i know Flare Blitz has to go... But I guess Fire Punch is gonna do the same thing, without recoil, according to the SmogonDex entry for Ape, right?

Just ideas I'm throwing around, but you know... I'm a noob, remember?

Suicune really doesn't operate well with a Choice Specs. 1 Calm Mind gives you the same power as Choice Specs so it honestly isn't worth it. HP Fire is still a bad idea. Seriously consider changing it to HP Grass or HP Electric.

Focus Sash is only good on Leads. Stealth Rock, Sandstorm, Spikes, and Hail all break the sash, so theres no point in using it. Life Orb is still a good idea. Use Fire Punch over Flare Blitz if you want a physical fire move.

Calm Mind + 3 attacks is perfectly viable. The problem with your current set is that Water type laugh at Suicune without HP Grass or Electric. HP Electric will allow you to counter Gyarados. Something that will ravage your team once it gets a DD in. HP Grass will help you cut through enemy Swampert. A pokemon that checks your Salamence.

But see the thing is I can't rebreed my suicune for a new HP... This team isn't for Shoddy, my friend just tested it there, which i now know is kind of a bad idea, since the two are really, really different... I guess I still have nothing to switch it for...

oh.. (bashes head against the wall). Well then. You'll have to compensate for that. HP Fire isn't that great anyway. Lets do some math:

STAB Surf does: 95 x1.5 = 137 base power
HP Fire (super effective) does: 70 x2 = 140. This is assuming you have perfect HP fire EVs. Very doubtful if your not using a gameshark/action replay.

Not much of a difference eh? Now, what types are resistant to water but weak to fire? Grass. This is the only type worth using fire over water.

Grass type is hit by Ice and fire for super Effective. So Ice Beam should be used here anyway.

This makes HP Fire useless. Atleast with Water/Ice combo. Put shadow Ball here instead. Shadow Ball will hit other Water Types for nuetral as well as allow you to dent Rotom. After a Calm Mind you should be able to survive a Thunderbolt and be able to 1HKO Rotom with Shadow Ball.

Dominion said:

oh.. (bashes head against the wall). Well then. You'll have to compensate for that. HP Fire isn't that great anyway. Lets do some math:

STAB Surf does: 95 x1.5 = 137 base power
HP Fire (super effective) does: 70 x2 = 140. This is assuming you have perfect HP fire EVs. Very doubtful if your not using a gameshark/action replay.

Not much of a difference eh? Now, what types are resistant to water but weak to fire? Grass. This is the only type worth using fire over water.

Grass type is hit by Ice and fire for super Effective. So Ice Beam should be used here anyway.

This makes HP Fire useless. Atleast with Water/Ice combo. Put shadow Ball here instead. Shadow Ball will hit other Water Types for nuetral as well as allow you to dent Rotom. After a Calm Mind you should be able to survive a Thunderbolt and be able to 1HKO Rotom with Shadow Ball.

Click to expand...

Awesome dude! That's a really good idea, too. Thanks a bunch, man! But what about steels? Just go to Ape? And about the IV's, i doubt the IV's are correct, just like you. Anyway, Shadow Ball's in, HP Fire is out. and it checks one of my counters on this guy, too.

Anyway, don't beat yourself up, I should have made it clear that I wasn't on Shoddy lol sorry about that.

Thanks man! This clears out one of my biggest problems on the team.

Jase D Ace said:

Okay, guys, really really dumb idea. If i give Cune a Choice Specs with Shadow Ball, HP Fire, Ice Beam and Hydro Pump, would that do anything? Its bulk and resistances let it switch in, and the moves hit 11 of 17 types super effectively, so i thought maybe? But then again, will it truly suffer without Calm Mind? Just askin, prolly a dumb idea, but one i thought was worth mentioning...

And how about replacing Ape's Life Orb with a Focus Sash to get off one SD, and then sweep? With that Sash though, i know Flare Blitz has to go... But I guess Fire Punch is gonna do the same thing, without recoil, according to the SmogonDex entry for Ape, right?

Just ideas I'm throwing around, but you know... I'm a noob, remember?

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I would say that choice specs isn't a good idea since like dominion pointed out its the same as a single calm mind in S.Atk boost, but with specs you only get that once attack and no S.Def boost. If you're determined for an attacking cune then Life Orb is the way too go. I still suggest the Leftovers w/ Toxic and maybe sub too.

Taking Life Orb off ape means that you'll probably wanna put him as a lead. Here's the suggested LeadApe:

LeadApe@Focus Sash
Naive / Hasty
64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
~ Fake Out
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Close Combat / Encore

I personally don't like this set but a lot of people have good things to say about it. I would probably run this setup instead:

LeadApe@Focus Sash
Naive/Hasty/Jolly
64 HP / 192 Atk / 252 Spe
~Fake Out
~Stealth Rock
~Mach Punch/Close Combat
~Taunt

It seems a bit odd but it can be unexpected. You can play around with the EVs a bit but this thing is meant to be annoying. You can start with the Fake out, then go to Taunt then set up your own rocks. Then Mach Punch is there for priority or you can Close Combat for the pure STAB damage. I've used this guy once or twice and he actually does a bit of damage to the other team if you use him right.

Steels are no threat to this Team. Infernape, Swampert, Salamence, Suicune and Forretress all resist the big Steel types: Metagross, Scizor and Jirachi. So theres ot too much of a problem there as long as you play smart. None of those particularly like Surf, Fire Punch or Earthquake so you have plenty of ways around them.

I love Leadape but this team seriously needs Ape not to be a lead. His whole team would have to be juggled around if Ape wasn't SDing Fire Punches.

He does need a different Swampert set (most likely just basic Leadpert) or possibly a new lead in general. But Infernape isn't the best option. I'm not too keen on Leads but Swampert is mighty handy for this team.

D Ace. Update your original post with the changes to your team. That way everyone who comments has a point of reference without having to read this entire thread again. ^_^ (Because in all honesty I've forgotten what exactly has changed thus far..)

Dominion said:

Steels are no threat to this Team. Infernape, Swampert, Salamence, Suicune and Forretress all resist the big Steel types: Metagross, Scizor and Jirachi. So theres ot too much of a problem there as long as you play smart. None of those particularly like Surf, Fire Punch or Earthquake so you have plenty of ways around them.

I love Leadape but this team seriously needs Ape not to be a lead. His whole team would have to be juggled around if Ape wasn't SDing Fire Punches.

He does need a different Swampert set (most likely just basic Leadpert) or possibly a new lead in general. But Infernape isn't the best option. I'm not too keen on Leads but Swampert is mighty handy for this team.

D Ace. Update your original post with the changes to your team. That way everyone who comments has a point of reference without having to read this entire thread again. ^_^ (Because in all honesty I've forgotten what exactly has changed thus far..)

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Gotcha, the changes have been made and are in Bold. Hopefully this makes it easier on the raters.

Again, I can't thank you and ChaosSyn enough for your help. I hope you guys can continue to help me out =)

And of course Smith too, but you guys have been doing the most. I don't think I would have thought of any of the changes here, unless they were right off the site lol.

ChaosSyn said:

I would say that choice specs isn't a good idea since like dominion pointed out its the same as a single calm mind in S.Atk boost, but with specs you only get that once attack and no S.Def boost. If you're determined for an attacking cune then Life Orb is the way too go. I still suggest the Leftovers w/ Toxic and maybe sub too.

Taking Life Orb off ape means that you'll probably wanna put him as a lead. Here's the suggested LeadApe:

LeadApe@Focus Sash
Naive / Hasty
64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
~ Fake Out
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Close Combat / Encore

I personally don't like this set but a lot of people have good things to say about it. I would probably run this setup instead:

LeadApe@Focus Sash
Naive/Hasty/Jolly
64 HP / 192 Atk / 252 Spe
~Fake Out
~Stealth Rock
~Mach Punch/Close Combat
~Taunt

It seems a bit odd but it can be unexpected. You can play around with the EVs a bit but this thing is meant to be annoying. You can start with the Fake out, then go to Taunt then set up your own rocks. Then Mach Punch is there for priority or you can Close Combat for the pure STAB damage. I've used this guy once or twice and he actually does a bit of damage to the other team if you use him right.

Click to expand...

Well, your Infernape set is tempting, but it makes my Swampert somewhat redundant, seeing as setting up rocks is his MAIN role. Also, I kinda want to keep Ape as a sweeper, seeing as he's so quick, and hits like a small truck, I rely on him to keep momentum or snatch it if I don't already have it.

As for Suicune, yeah, I can see now how Specs is a really bad idea. And I think I WILL keep Suicune as an offensive poke, to keep the whole Offensive theme going on, and to keep momentum on my side. But I will take your advice on trading Life Orb for Leftovers, so that it can take advantage of its natural, uninvested bulk, and it's invested sweeping stats, while recovering health. So really, it's taking hits, giving hits, and just healing itself, all at the same time.
Smith said that a balanced team is a team with bulky sweepers, not how I had it before, and he could not be more right, now that I think about it. This said, I think Cune really fills this role well.

Thanks so much! XD

Ok, now that you've updated your team, how about a re-rate? You're Swampert and Infernape look pretty solid, but i'm still a little iffy about your mence. I would say you should have your CB poke as your Mence. CBMence's are insane. I usually can take out AT LEAST 2 pokes. Usually 3. And obviously if you go with CBMence then you'll wanna take out Dragon Dance and replace it with something a tad more offensive. Now for your Suicune. I'm still intent on convincing you to change to a Leftovers set. And why Shadow Ball? And Hydro pump should be taken out for Surf. And now for Scizor. A nice addition, but I would go with a LOScizor instead of CB. Especially with that move set. And either way you should swap the HP EVs with the Speed EVs.

Test out your new team before you read any of this. Because I know you just made the changes.

CB on Mence is a good and bad idea. You'll be switching in Mence a lot if you do that. that racks up SR damage quickly. Then we'd be back at square one with a Rapid Spinner for support. And that'd be for only 1 pokemon: mence. Also, Fire Blast doesn't get a boost from Choice Band (sadface).

Leftovers on Suicune isn't a bad option when you consider it's massive bulk. I support it. But ofcourse test it out. If your noticing the damage drop is more of a hinderance than the recovery boost then switch back to lifeorb. CM + Leftovers will make you very bulky. I'd suggest moving those Special Attack EVs into HP just for more Leftover recovery if you do decide on thaty route.

LO Scizor is also better for this team. Your offensive momentum depends greatly on the amount of switches you do. Less switches = better. I know we're probably asking you to change wwaayy too much but these are simply suggestions.

If you go back to LOmence and make Scizor carry a LO then Suicune should defenantly carry Leftovers. As the battle progresses a lot of Life Orb damage really racks up.

Scizor with HP evs isn't a bad idea but you have to ask yourself: what is it allowing him to survive? Speed EVs arent that great on him either. It's pure preference.

Anyway, I suggest just playing the team for awhile. Find out what your weaknesses are and tinker around with the team. You'll learn more from actually playing with it than having us tell you whats wrong with it. We've altered enough so far. So have at it for awhile. Once you break it in and get use to it, give us a PM with any trouble your having.

Other than that, the Team looks fairly solid. Personal preferences aside, it's essentially ready for combat.

I agree completely with Dominion. And i'm testing out the team right now as it stands without our re-rates. Suicune is taking a beating and being kinda useless :( That lack of lefties on him coupled with the life orb damage really takes it's toll on cune. And on one of my matches with your team i got swept pretty bad by a bronzong with hypnosis and dream eater. O_o
The good news is that Scizor did some pretty good damage, tho i didn't like being locked into one attack. And Swampert was a beast. he took hits like a tank and dealt them back pretty good too. I protected every other turn to let leftovers give me back some health unless i predicted a switch or a DD/SD/etc. Other than that so far your team's pretty solid tho.