Manectric (Choice Specs)

DangerMouse

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Overheat / Flamethrower
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Switcheroo
item: Choice Specs
ability: Static
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Manectric is an amazing Choice Specs user for many reasons; 105 base Special Attack and Speed, access to important coverage with access to important coverage moves, and Switcheroo to hinder special walls that try to sponge his attacks are all valuable to a Choice Specs set. This set is best used with a hit-and-run strategy in mind and for revenge killing. Manectric can also cause disruption in the form of Switcheroo to potentially cripple one of your opponent's Pokemon.</p>

<p>Thunderbolt is Manectric's main STAB attack, and does serious damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Access to both Overheat and Flamethrower separate Manectric from his fellow Electric-types, as they allow him to hit Grass-, Steel-, Ice-, and Bug-type Pokemon for super effective damage. Overheat is the better option over two turns if you don't mind the Special Attack drop; however, Flamethrower won't drop the power of Manectric's other moves, which is relevant once you have used Switcheroo (it is also slightly more accurate). Hidden Power Grass is used to round off Manectric's coverage by allowing him to hit 8 types for super effective damage and everything else for neutral. An alternative Hidden Power type could be used here if you have a special need for it. Switcheroo allows Manectric to cripple potential counters, such as Clefable, Registeel, and Chansey by handing them Manectric's Choice Specs. Manectric can also make good use of Leftovers, which helps with his frailness, or a Flame Orb / Toxic Orb from Clefable that can be used to cripple another one of your opponent's Pokemon in turn.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EVs are self-explanatory; maximize Speed and Special Attack are maximized to make the best use of Manectric's potential, while 4 EVs are used so that the rare Download Porygon2 doesn't get a Special Attack boost. Alternatively, you can run 216 Speed to outrun positive base 100 Speed Pokemon, only losing the ability to Speed tie other Manectric, Scyther, and Mismagius. This will allow you to put 32 EVs into HP, which is a Life Orb number (in case you pick one up with Switcheroo). A Timid nature is needed, as otherwise the many positive base 95 Speed Pokemon in UU will outrun Manectric.</p>

<p>Choice Specs Manectric really appreciates Rapid Spin support due to its frailness and how often it will be switching in and out. Like all revenge killers and sweepers, entry hazard support is also helpful for securing KOs. Claydol makes a great partner since he is immune to the Ground-type attacks Manectric is weak to, absorbs Thunder Wave, has access to Rapid Spin, and can set up Stealth Rock. Bulky Blastoise can come in on most Ground-types, threaten them with a STAB Water-type attack, and Rapid Spin entry hazards away. Blaziken is an excellent offensive partner for Manectric because he eliminates the special walls that Manectric has trouble with, while Manectric can threaten Milotic and other Water-types in return.</p>
 
manectric should always carry switcheroo in that last slot, its like the major selling point of manectric =]. being able to completely ruin many of your counters, such as chansey and special defense clefable is huge.
 
Signal Beam is useless on Manectric. Thunderbolt only hits slightly less than Signal Beam does on your typical bulky psychic.

Thunderbolt vs Choice Scarf lead Mesprit: 61.1% - 72%
Signal Beam vs Choice Scarf lead Mesprit: 65% - 76.4%
And Signal beam doesn't really get you any notable KO's.

I think you should remove mentions Toxic, Thunder Wave and Rain Dance. They are useless on Manectric, and I'd much rather attack than support.

Manectric is full of potential in the UU metagame, and you better have a lot of experience using it. Do us proud will you?
 
Added to what PK Gaming said it's not needed to list the IVs as well because there are no restrictions due to it not being legendary (unlike Raikou, who I'll never replace with that ugly dog =/).
 
DangerMouse said:
Flamethrower is the superior option over Overheat as it allows Manectric to avoid a drop in SPA however Overheat is also an option as it will allow Manectric to do more damage if you don’t mind the drop.
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Being a huge fan of Manetric, I have used him quite often. This statement I've highlighted here is simply not the case. It's also been one of the most debated topics on Manetric. Overheat, over the course of two attacks, has more damage output than Flamethrower. The easiest way of showing this is through BP explanation. Overheat has a BP of 140. After one use, it is halved, theoretically to 70. Flamethrower has 95 BP. So, using simple addition, we conclude that over the span of two turns, Overheat has 210 BP (140 + 70), while Flamethrower has 190 BP (95 + 95). Some common examples in the UU Metagame:

252 / 156 Registeel:
Overheat: (62.1% - 73.1%) + (30.8% - 36.8%) = 92.9% - 109.9%
Flamethrower: (42.3% - 50%) + (42.3% - 50%) = 84.6% - 100%

Manetric has a good chance of 2HKO'ing the standard Registeel, even after the -2 SpA drop. Flamethrower cannot achieve this. SR does not matter, as Registeel carries Leftovers, but after one layer of Spikes, Overheat is almost guaranteed the 2HKO.

252 / 252 Venusaur:
Overheat: 77.5% - 91.8%
Flamethrower: 52.7% - 62.6%

Has a chance to OHKO after SR, and guaranteed after SR + one layer of Spikes. Flamethrower can't even OHKO with SR + three layers of Spikes.

252 / 252 Steelix:
Overheat: 104.5% - 123.2%
Flamethrower: 70.6% - 83.6%

Overheat is a guaranteed OHKO. Even with one layer of Spikes, Steelix isn't OHKO'd by Flamethrower.

Obviously, this indicates that Overheat is the superior choice. Please place Overheat in the first position over Flamethrower. I would even go so far as to suggest getting rid of Flamethrower, as it is inferior in pretty much every way to Overheat, but there are some accuracy issues with Overheat, and Flamethrower can still OHKO targets Thunderbolt cannot (Sceptile, etc.). I would wait until more people voice their opinions on the matter before deciding if Flamethrower should even be on the moveset as a slash.

I agree, Signal Beam should be taken off the set. You have Overheat for Grass types, so that leaves Psychic and Dark. Alakazam is already OHKO'd by TBolt, and most Dark types are hit for neutral on Bug in the UU metagame anyway (Drapion, Skuntank, Spiritomb, Toxicroak, etc.). The only instance I see it being useful for is Grumpig, who is virtually not seen in UU play.

As for your other choices, concerning the Specs set, they are practically useless, and present Manetric with no benefit whatsoever, especially considering the fact that...it's wearing Choice Specs. Even if that were not the case, Toxic is near useless on the set as most Bulky things that wall you (Chansey, Clefable) are immune to it and you have attacks to take care of all the other tanks and walls. Rain Dance powers down your Fire attack (re: Registeel and Venusaur) while Thunderbolt already has perfect accuracy. Base 105 Speed is great in the UU tier, and it's best to use Manetric as an attacker rather than use TWave, as you're really just slowing the pace of Specs Manetric down. I would remove any mention of these three moves while you're writing the actual analysis. Switcheroo is perfect.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
 
Change's Made

I want to keep flamethrower slashed on the set for the simple fact overheats SpA drop weakens all of Manectric’s attacks after getting rid of your choice specs a SPA drop can force you to switch if your opponent makes a switch taking unnecessary hazard damage. I did put Overheat first because it is stronger I won't fight anyone that lol. I won’t say either is better until more people comment I personally think it’s a matter of preference I'm messing around with both at the moment.

Signal Beam and support options were taken off the set.

Tightened up the paragraph a little and removed mention of IV’s

Thank you for the replies guys your help is awesome.
 
Yes but Overheat leaves you set up fodder for so much shit. Manectric uses Overheat as something switches in and dies. Then the next poke can set up on a 70 BP Overheat rather than a 95 BP Flamethrower... IMO Flamethrower should be the first slash but QC can decide.
 
Flamethrower should definitely be the first option, the problem with overheat is the -2 spa drop really hurts something as frail as manectric and if you trick away your specs, having your only fire attack for steel-types mean a -2 every time its used sucks.

i'd keep them both in like they are now, and mention the merits of both.

i disagree with those who say that locked in overheat leaves you as bait for so much set up - doesn't flamethrower? Almost anything that will set up on that -2 overheat can probably set up something on the flamethrower, such as kabutops/feraligatr. even pursuiters will still be taking a fair amount of damage from overheat and they likely won't even ko with pursuit.
 
I think it leave's you as set up bate even after you get rid of specs unless you pick up an orb but your most likely going to get leftys. A -2 Thunderbolt will scratch standard defensive 252/0 Milotic, and wont OHKO Feraligatr (who will OHKO back with EQ), these are just examples, I dont think anyone is going to switch in those pokes but taking a -2 hit means Manectric is most likely going to have to switch which will allow your opponent to get a free stat boost or sub ect... Having the freedom to fire off flamethrower and switch to a non weakend move helps... This doesn't prove the ends justifies the means the added power of Overheat helps alot so i will take out that is set up fodder that can be a harsh statement
 
well, to be honest being able to trick a special wall like clefable and then having a chance to trick a flame orb to cripple another one of their sweepers sounds really appealing to me if you can't get a hold of leftovers/life orb, so i'd keep it mentioned.
 
Thinking of adding this in the EV section but i feel it might be useless...

<p>The EV’s are self-explanatory maximize Speed and Special Attack to make the best use of Manectric’s potential. You can run 216Spe to outrun positive base 100’s only loosing to other Manectric’s and anything over 105 base speed, this will allow you to put 32Hp hitting the magic Life Orb number incase you pick one up with switcheroo the 4 Ev's left over can be put in Def or SpD. Timid nature is needed otherwise the many positive base 95’s in UU will outrun you.

Cancel that its in the analysis already no need to add it
 
Towelie said:
Yes but Overheat leaves you set up fodder for so much shit. Manectric uses Overheat as something switches in and dies. Then the next poke can set up on a 70 BP Overheat rather than a 95 BP Flamethrower... IMO Flamethrower should be the first slash but QC can decide.
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kd24 said:
Almost anything that will set up on that -2 overheat can probably set up something on the flamethrower, such as kabutops/feraligatr.
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This. Most importantly, with Flash Fire Pokemon like Houndoom and Arcanine running around, as well as things like Milotic, any Fire move will be taken advantage of quite easily. TBolt should be the primary attack option anyway, with Overheat/Flamethrower and HP Grass being extremely situational (Fire moves are for the Steels and Grass Pokemon of the tier, while HP Grass is really just for Grounds like Quaggy and Rhyperior).

Another point that is getting ignored, however: Specs Manetric should be used as a Specs user first. I'm not entirely sure why we're so worried about when it Switcheroo's its item, as that is really a last ditch move designed to cripple walls. Although it's definitely the differentiating factor compared to other Specs users, it's in the fourth move slot for a reason. We don't use Scarf Rotom simply as a Trick user. We use Choice Pokemon as Choice users first. Saying that the -2 SpA drop is devastating after the Specs are off seems kind of pointless, as this set is designed to utilize Specs to beat certain UU threats. Obviously, with either Overheat or Flamethrower, Manetric isn't going to touch things like 252/252 Venusaur and Registeel without Specs. That's why Overheat should be the primary choice: it causes way more damage than Flamethrower over two turns with Specs, and it allows Manetric to actually beat prominent Pokemon, unlike Flamethrower. The -2 SpA drop is marginal, as more often than not, you would switch out Manetric after a Specs Fire move if Milotic comes in. Counters are counters, after all.

Even if we ignore this fact about Specs, Flamethrower without Specs fails to OHKO Sceptile after SR, and 0/0 Venusaur after SR AND one layer of Spikes. Overheat OHKO's Sceptile straight up, and OHKO's Venusaur virtually guaranteed after SR damage. Using Overheat for more than one turn seems silly after you Switcheroo your Specs off, so that's a moot point. And the -2 SpA overall can easily be remedied by switching out. Just like you would if it was a Specs user. Taking off your Specs doesn't immediately constitute Manetric as a sweeper, after all. I'd rather be able to beat threats to Manetric rather than be a tiny bit safer on neutral hits. I also wouldn't allow my opponent to set up on -2 SpA attacks.

The only benefits I see of having Flamethrower is the extra accuracy and the lack of a -2 SpA drop after your Specs have been switched off, which is a small factor overall. Overheat scores a lot of OHKO's and 2HKO's Flamethrower cannot, both with and without Specs (although especially with), and has more damage output over two turns. I'm personally not seeing where the negative is.
 
You seem to be making too little of Manectric's sweeping capacities once the Specs are tricked away. With Flamethrower Manectric can afford to hit stuff like Venusaur and Registeel harder without having to worry about switching out after attacking or falling short of KOing things because of a SpAtk drop. After all, the whole point of using this set is the capacity of tricking those Specs away.
 
-2SPA hinders all of your attacks so even if your opponent switches out their grass type and brings in a fire resist you are going to do a whole lot less damage with your other attacks forcing you to switch or get KO'd because your weakened attacks scratched your opponent, chances are you will get rid of your specs some point during the match thats all dependent on your's and your opponents team if you don't need to lose your specs thats great however you will most likely want to ditch them to screw something over if you have the chance manectric is still great even without specs

I'm not saying one is better than the other they both have their merits it all depends on how you want to play Manectric thats why they are slashed and you can choose which one you want if you want to play him as a straight specs user overheat is better if you want to use him to create disruption and a cleaner after ditching specs flamethrower is better
 
I hope you are going to use periods when you write the analysis.

the order overheat / flamethrower makes the most sense to me. I think the calcs that drkslay posted show pretty solidly that overheat is the best option on specs when it hits desired targets, not to mention it does quite a bit more damage to fire resists. the setup argument is also essentially void while specs are still on since 70 bp vs 95 bp is a tossup if it's something like a rhyperior or feraligatr since you can't switch moves.

however, after manectric has tricked away its specs (switcherooed looks stupid and this isn't formal so eat it grammar team) flamethrower is probably better overall. however, overheat's extra damage against grass pokemon when compared to flamethrower (0/0 venusaur: 87% - 103% vs 59.8% - 70.4%) makes up for flamethrower's non-specs reliability a bit, since it means you can revenge kill leftovers or synthesis variants of venusaur with greater ease.

flamethrower is better for late game cleanup when everything is heavily weakened, but overheat is better for early game predicted switches while you have specs and for mid-game revenge killing after you've tricked away specs. given that the set has choice specs, it makes the most sense to consider its effectiveness with specs first and consider its effectiveness without specs second.

edit: also while you have specs, 2hkoes aside, isn't it nicer to hit registeel for 67% rather than 45% average damage on one hit before they switch out to milotic to absorb the second hit?
 
whistle said:
I hope you are going to use periods when you write the analysis.

the order overheat / flamethrower makes the most sense to me. I think the calcs that drkslay posted show pretty solidly that overheat is the best option on specs when it hits desired targets, not to mention it does quite a bit more damage to fire resists. the setup argument is also essentially void while specs are still on since 70 bp vs 95 bp is a tossup if it's something like a rhyperior or feraligatr since you can't switch moves.

however, after manectric has tricked away its specs (switcherooed looks stupid and this isn't formal so eat it grammar team) flamethrower is probably better overall. however, overheat's extra damage against grass pokemon when compared to flamethrower (0/0 venusaur: 87% - 103% vs 59.8% - 70.4%) makes up for flamethrower's non-specs reliability a bit, since it means you can revenge kill leftovers or synthesis variants of venusaur with greater ease.

flamethrower is better for late game cleanup when everything is heavily weakened, but overheat is better for early game predicted switches while you have specs and for mid-game revenge killing after you've tricked away specs. given that the set has choice specs, it makes the most sense to consider its effectiveness with specs first and consider its effectiveness without specs second.

edit: also while you have specs, 2hkoes aside, isn't it nicer to hit registeel for 67% rather than 45% average damage on one hit before they switch out to milotic to absorb the second hit?
Click to expand...

convinced and changing it asap thanks for all the help everyone
 


I think you're probably going to need one of us to write up this set for you if your "grammar is terrible". Please mention that somewhere in this thread so we can find someone to write this analysis.
 
well he already wrote it up and the content is pretty good (except team options could use a bit more stuff). I'd be willing to take a roughly finished product and prettify it if he wants.

QC APPROVED (2/2)

edit: I forgot that we're doing only two approvals for now since Heysup is out of town. welcome to UU.
 
Oh, I thought that was just a skeleton. It seems a bit...small. Well, if you think it's fine it's not a problem for me.

Also, I think we can move this because of the thing Philip wrote in the QC documentation thread?

Also why aren't you using the koffing
 
Yea I think I am going to need help with a grammar check I was never great at it. Is there anything else you need from me? I'm a lil new (long time lurker new poster) so I'm at a lost for what the next step is.
 
I was planning on revamping Manectric sometime but silly me didn't reserve it.. if you still want someone to take over this writeup I'd love to. If not, I'll just need to know how to go about adding this set into a revamp of the entire analysis if they're up at the same time, assuming there's nothing stopping me from doing the revamp of course.
 
Erebyssial said:
I was planning on revamping Manectric sometime but silly me didn't reserve it.. if you still want someone to take over this writeup I'd love to. If not, I'll just need to know how to go about adding this set into a revamp of the entire analysis if they're up at the same time, assuming there's nothing stopping me from doing the revamp of course.
Click to expand...

Whatever is easier i dont mind if you take over the write up assuming you get to do the revamp. If you need help with anything let me know.
 
Proofread:

DangerMouse said:
(All of the moves need a space after the number, but you can't bold a space...)

[SET]
name: Choice Specs Manectric
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Overheat/Flamethrower
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Switcheroo
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
ability: Static
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Manectric is an amazing candidate for Choice Specs for many reasons: 105 base Special Attack and Speed, great coverage with access to unique coverage moves, and access Switcheroo to hinder special walls that switch in and try attempt to sponge his attacks. This set is best used in a for hit and runs style, and for revenge killing. Manectric can also cause disruption in the form of switcheroo potentially crippling one of your opponents Pokémon.

<p>Thunderbolt is Manectric’s main STAB attack. Access to Overheat and Flamethrower separate Manectric from his fellow Electric-types as it allows him to hit Grass, Steel, Ice, and Bugs Pokemon for super effective damage. Overheat is the stronger option over two turns if you don't mind the drop in SpA, and is the superior option for early and mid game. However Flamethrower won't drop the power of your other moves and is slightly more accurate, making it the superior option for late game clean up when most of your opposition is severely weakened. Hidden Power Grass is used to round off coverage, and allow allowing Manectric to hit 8 types for super effective damage, and obtain perfect neutral coverage. and everything else for neutral, an alternative Hidden Power type could be used here if you have a special need for it. Switcheroo allows Manectric to cripple potential counters, such as Clefable, Registeel, and Chansey by handing giving them your Choice Specs and locking them into a single move. In turn, Manectric pick's up recieves Leftovers, which helps with his frailness, or a Flame or Toxic Orb from Clefable, which can be used to cripple another Pokemon. that in turn can be used to cripple another one of your opponent’s Pokémon.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV’s are self-explanatory: maximize Speed and Special Attack to make the best use of Manectric's potential. You can run 216(space)Speed EVs to outrun positive base 100s, only being outrun by only losing to other Manectric and anything over 105 base Speed. This will allow you to put 32 EVs into HP, hitting the a magic Life Orb number in case you pick one up with Switcheroo, if that concerns you at all. Timid nature is needed otherwise the many positive base 95s in UU will outrun you.

<p>Specs Manectric really appreciates Rapid Spin support due to its frailness and how often it will be switching in and out. And Like all revenge killers and sweepers, entry hazard support is always also appreciated. Claydol makes a great partner since he is immune to Ground attacks, absorbs Thunder Wave, has access to Rapid Spin, and can set up Stealth Rock. Bulky Blastoise can come in on most Ground-types and threaten them with a STAB Water attacks and spin hazards away. Blaziken is an excellent partner for Manectric, as Blaziken can wall breaking potential easily eliminate's special walls, and Manectric can threaten Milotic and other Water-types that Blaziken fears.in return.
Click to expand...

Just remember that types, moves, and items are all capitalized. Also, whenever a type is followed by the word type, you need a hyphen. For instance "Water-type". In addition, you didn't have any "ADDITIONAL COMMENTS" tags, so I added them where I thought they were supposed to go. Finally, a lot of things were changed, so I may have introduced new problems by doing so...
 
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