Gliscor (Anti Lead)

[SET]
name: Anti Lead
move 1: Sky Attack
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Quick Attack/Taunt
move 4: Stealth Rock/Taunt/Roost
item: Power Herb
nature: Jolly
evs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site :
-Great lead for beating Machamp and Azelf leads
-Ev's provide enough defense against most leads attacks.
-Sets up stealth rocks
-Provides a solid counter to Lucario late game
-Roost and Taunt can be used to break stall mid-game
-Roost and Stealth rocks can be used on stall teams to begin in a winning position.
-Quick attack can be used later in the game to provide priority.
-Sky attacks massive 140 BP STAB attack can be used effectively even without Power Herb to cause massive damage to threats specifically on the switch.
-provides a Tyranitar counter late game.


Additional comments:
-The beauty of this set is just the surprise factor of such a strong attack coming from gliscor.

Teammates and Counters:

Teammates
Grass Types are decent team mates with this set. They can switch in to swampert and spore (breloom) or leech seed (shaymin). Tyranitar is a good team mate if you opt not to use quick attack. It can switch into psychic and fire blast and pursuit and the sandstorm allow can do what quick attack would have done. Lead metagross with lum berry is also a decent teammate if you opt not to use stealth rock and go for a stall break/anti lead set. It can switch into Choice Band azelf ice punch and set up stealth rock. Offensive suicune or Life orb Starmie make good partners as they can switch into swampert and Aerodactyl and other leads to be a revenge killer.

Counters

Generally Defensive pokemon are counters to this set. If you run taunt then the defensive pokemon can be dealt with better for another pokemon to switch in. lead aerodactyl can be tricky as you may want to use sky attack just to break the sash when they use taunt or use stealth rock when they think the u-turn is coming then switch out to a counter. Leads with sleep can be a problem, so rest talkers are good team mates for this lead.




Disclaimer?: the problem is that shoddy does not have power herb. Wifi and Pokemon online have power herb. This is why despite the flaws of shoddy this should still be looked at to be put on site.

I don't know about this, but I'd like to point out that you should have 216 speed EVs and you only need 92 Atk evs to KO machamp. This would probably just be in the other options though.

Eggbert said:

I don't know about this, but I'd like to point out that you should have 216 speed EVs and you only need 92 Atk evs to KO machamp. This would probably just be in the other options though.

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Machamp, but i got to do damage to other leads as well.

Pretty gimmicky set that doesnt work well after the Power Herb is gone, and isn't honestly very different from the already on-site Lead set. Should, at most, be a sentence on the already on-site lead set saying you can OHKO Machamp with Sky Attack.

I played a lot of Gliscor when I was updating it.
And trust me, Power Herb Sky Attack definitely came to mind.

The only problem is, most leads are going to SR first turn against Gliscor if they don't already have Fake Out. You aren't stopping them getting their Rocks down, you aren't really damaing anything enough apart from maybe anything weak to Flying (Heracross, never a lead, Machamp, you is going to switch out or Ice Punch you) or Ground (Metagross, survives, Heatran, always Shuca), and even then, there are better options. Gliscor isn't fast enough to contend with the common leads and it is not nearly as bulky enough with your given spread to do anything back.

I would rather just play with a Taunt / SR / EQ / Filler move lead with more Speed and some HP instead of Attack.

TL;DR - Gliscor is too slow and weak to be an effective anti-lead since you either don't stop their Rocks, or you aren't doing enough damage. The only things I can see this stopping are attacking Machamp (maybe, I think you still lose unless Sky Attack can KO), or any other anti-lead.

Zystral said:

I played a lot of Gliscor when I was updating it.
And trust me, Power Herb Sky Attack definitely came to mind.

The only problem is, most leads are going to SR first turn against Gliscor if they don't already have Fake Out. You aren't stopping them getting their Rocks down, you aren't really damaing anything enough apart from maybe anything weak to Flying (Heracross, never a lead, Machamp, you is going to switch out or Ice Punch you) or Ground (Metagross, survives, Heatran, always Shuca), and even then, there are better options. Gliscor isn't fast enough to contend with the common leads and it is not nearly as bulky enough with your given spread to do anything back.

I would rather just play with a Taunt / SR / EQ / Filler move lead with more Speed and some HP instead of Attack.

TL;DR - Gliscor is too slow and weak to be an effective anti-lead since you either don't stop their Rocks, or you aren't doing enough damage. The only things I can see this stopping are attacking Machamp (maybe, I think you still lose unless Sky Attack can KO), or any other anti-lead.

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This is the fight against "opponent has rocks and dead and im at full health" and "no rocks and dead anyway while im still alive" and im still alive.it does not have to be faster than other leads because quick attack has priority.

You should call this set Anti-Machamp lead instead. ^^
Other then beating Machamp all the times don't see what this has over the "normal" lead set.

And if you want to beat Lucario midlate game you really should have 216 Spe EV's.

I can't think of a single appealing thing about this set. From the one-time use secondary STAB that needs an item just to function and is useless midgame, to the fact that you can't even come close to fitting everything you need onto this set due to the fact that Sky Attack exists, to the fact that you actually managed to include Quick Attack over important things like Taunt, Roost, and Stealth Rock.

This set is a mediocre gimmick, plain and simple.

QC REJECTED (1/3)

What I think differentiates this Gliscor from other anti-leads, like Machamp, is the fact that it isn't threatening after it takes out the opposing lead. It's got common weaknesses, and this set's slow - the opponent can kill/force it out, and then you're left with dead weight. Machamp is so good because it's (nearly) impossible to OHKO - if the opponent sacrifices for first-turn Rocks, they basically lose two pokemon, and tempo. Gliscor loses to more leads and isn't that threatening.

Yes, SR differentiates the two, but then for attack + priority + SR, Metagross is bulkier, loses to less and has Explosion.

Delko said:

You should call this set Anti-Machamp lead instead. ^^
Other then beating Machamp all the times don't see what this has over the "normal" lead set.

And if you want to beat Lucario midlate game you really should have 216 Spe EV's.

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This is not an anti Machamp lead. It beats more leads than machamp like azelf infernape / most leads with a focus sash besides mamoswine and can still set up rocks later in the match or in the beginning. and it is a great defensive pokemon to use against things like cm rachi late game.

Ice-eyes said:

What I think differentiates this Gliscor from other anti-leads, like Machamp, is the fact that it isn't threatening after it takes out the opposing lead. It's got common weaknesses, and this set's slow - the opponent can kill/force it out, and then you're left with dead weight. Machamp is so good because it's (nearly) impossible to OHKO - if the opponent sacrifices for first-turn Rocks, they basically lose two pokemon, and tempo. Gliscor loses to more leads and isn't that threatening.

Yes, SR differentiates the two, but then for attack + priority + SR, Metagross is bulkier, loses to less and has Explosion.

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yet Metagross loses to heatran leads and infernape leads instantly, and if you do carry the occa berry you lose anyway to machamp leads most of the time. And if you have lum you have to switch on the fire blast and then you just lost a tempo for his pokemon to come in. It may be a one shot deal but it can be useful to eliminate these pokemon early without losing your own pokemon in the process.

Outside of "beating" common leads (still loses to Hippo, Swampert, Starmie, Azelf, Aerodactyl and Forretress, Skarmory and other sleeping leads if it doesn't carry Taunt. If it does, loses to Infernape and other Sahsers) this set doesn't accomplish much throughout the match to be honest. Gliscor already loses a considerable amount of HP against pretty much all leads, doesn't have a good staying power, has nearly no use for Sky Attack and Quick Attack, has to choose between Roost and Stealth Rock, doesn't outspeed positive base 90s, doesn't attain the same bulk (so on...).

Seven Deadly Sins said:

I can't think of a single appealing thing about this set. From the one-time use secondary STAB that needs an item just to function and is useless midgame, to the fact that you can't even come close to fitting everything you need onto this set due to the fact that Sky Attack exists, to the fact that you actually managed to include Quick Attack over important things like Taunt, Roost, and Stealth Rock.

This set is a mediocre gimmick, plain and simple.

QC REJECTED (1/3)

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if you want it to be a mid game pokemon you use taunt instead of stealth rocks and have another pokemon like shuca heatran use stealth rocks.This is a effective lead because unlike colbur berry azelf. Im not dying to "beat" a pokemon.

Bluewind said:

Outside of "beating" common leads (still loses to Hippo, Swampert, Starmie, Azelf, Aerodactyl and Forretress, Skarmory and other sleeping leads if it doesn't carry Taunt. If it does, loses to Infernape and other Sahsers) this set doesn't accomplish much throughout the match to be honest. Gliscor already loses a considerable amount of HP against pretty much all leads, doesn't have a good staying power, has nearly no use for Sky Attack and Quick Attack, has to choose between Roost and Stealth Rock, doesn't outspeed positive base 90s, doesn't attain the same bulk (so on...).

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If it caries taunt then infernape dies anyway.Adding taunt to the last move and keeping quick attack lets you beat infernape.This is why i say carry a grass type like breloom or a pokemon like scarf tar to trap these pokemon and kill them. I doubt smart people would keep skarmory in anyway on a gliscor.

Please stop double posting; either condense all your responses into one post (by using the multi-quote button) or use the edit button (this is right next to the quote and multi-quote buttons).

Why are you double post spamming.

This thing could actually beat Infernape leads (If they chose to get up SR then you've "lost") by Earthquake and Quick Attack.

This would better work for the set by running:

Gliscor @ Power Herb
216 HP/80 Attack/216 Speed
Jolly
-Sky Attack
-Earthquake
-Quick Attack
-Taunt

Not sure about Azelf leads (Most SR in my experience since they know a lot of Glissy leads carry U-turn), but still- It's a 140 power move that gets STAB. That hurts. If the Azelf Taunts I'm sure that it can probably be finished off with Quick Attack after Sky Attack.

EDIT: Check that, with 80 attack EVs you have a 90-ish% chance of OHKOing Machamp and with Quick Attack afterwards you can KO Azelf leads by a very slight margin. I would increase attack to...

Ugh. If I take EVs from either stats it makes you lose the Taunt war between opposing Gliscor and it makes you lose bulk.

So yeah. Agreeing with the naysayers here. The EVs won't make it work.

GaRgAnt said:

Why are you double post spamming.

This thing could actually beat Infernape leads (If they chose to get up SR then you've "lost") by Earthquake and Quick Attack.

This would better work for the set by running:

Gliscor @ Power Herb
216 HP/80 Attack/216 Speed
Jolly
-Sky Attack
-Earthquake
-Quick Attack
-Taunt

Not sure about Azelf leads (Most Taunt in my experience since they know a lot of Glissy leads carry U-turn), but still- It's a 140 power move that gets STAB. That hurts. If the Azelf Taunts I'm sure that it can probably be finished off with Quick Attack after Sky Attack.

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No need to Minimod. This does not get the sky-attack + quick attack KO on azelf.The extra HP ev's are not needed beyond what i have there and the speed might be needed but not really in the lead spot because azelf and ape all lose to this set.

I got ninja'd by Eo before I could finish my post.

And how the hell do they lose, they actually win if they just set up Stealth Rock. I don't think you get what we're bitching about, it doesn't work. Explain how they lose plz

GaRgAnt said:

I got ninja'd by Eo before I could finish my post.

And how the hell do they lose, they actually win if they just set up Stealth Rock. I don't think you get what we're bitching about, it doesn't work. Explain how they lose plz

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They die. Stealth rock isn't the end all to the opponent.Stealth rock is not exodia or a tactical nuke if you get my drift.

There is more to the lead battle than that bud. SR like it or not is detrimental to all teams, and if this lead can't set them up it has to at least be able to prevent some kind of entry hazard from being set up from some class of leads.

Suicide leads are going to die eventually. You're just making them die a bit earlier than usual. And if that's called winning, I'll probably quit Pokemon.

GaRgAnt said:

There is more to the lead battle than that bud. SR like it or not is detrimental to all teams, and if this lead can't set them up it has to at least be able to prevent some kind of entry hazard from being set up from some class of leads.

Suicide leads are going to die eventually. You're just making them die a bit earlier than usual. And if that's called winning, I'll probably quit Pokemon.

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I don't even think you read the analysis. Thats why i have slashes in there. if you want to have another pokemon with stealth rocks then there you go. What you just said is the point of an anti lead; To kill the other pokemon.So in your theory attacking machamp is the worst lead in pokemon and any pokemon that is mono stealth rock is exceptional.

Attacking Machamp has a lot of OTHER things going for it when going on the offense.

Have you noticed:

Machamp's awesome 90/80/85 defenses (Did I list them correctly?)?

the assured confusion off a base 130 attack stat and base 100 power STAB move of Dynamicpunch?

The fact that Machamp gets priority to finish off Sashers that it can reasonably get down to KO range of Bullet Punch?

How if a lead just sets up and dies the owner of the lead now has to face a full health, Lum Berried Machamp?

Does Gliscor have such advantages of an anti-lead? Machamp puts people in a dilemma of whether or not to attack and not set up rocks, or set up rocks without dealing any damage at all and leave your teammates to deal with a full-health Machamp.

Please play more before you talk.

Curtains said:

I don't even think you read the analysis. Thats why i have slashes in there. if you want to have another pokemon with stealth rocks then there you go. What you just said is the point of an anti lead; To kill the other pokemon.So in your theory attacking machamp is the worst lead in pokemon and any pokemon that is mono stealth rock is exceptional.

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No, that's wrong. Machamp stops rocks through confusion, and puts tremendous pressure on teams with suicide leads. Mono Stealth Rock is bad, obviously, but thats why there are 4 moves. And pokemon like Aerodactyl might as well be mono- SR, because that's their job. This lead isn't even that bad, but it's worse than most other leads (Metagross beats Machamp and Azelf much better than this, for example), and the Lead Gliscor set thats already on site is nearly identical to this, so theres no need for a new "Anti-Lead Set".

Yes thank you. ^ Respect.

GaRgAnt said:

Attacking Machamp has a lot of OTHER things going for it when going on the offense.

Have you noticed:

Machamp's awesome 90/80/85 defenses (Did I list them correctly?)?

the assured confusion off a base 130 attack stat and base 100 power STAB move of Dynamicpunch?

The fact that Machamp gets priority to finish off Sashers that it can reasonably get down to KO range of Bullet Punch?

How if a lead just sets up and dies the owner of the lead now has to face a full health, Lum Berried Machamp?

Does Gliscor have such advantages of an anti-lead? Machamp puts people in a dilemma of whether or not to attack and not set up rocks, or set up rocks without dealing any damage at all and leave your teammates to deal with a full-health Machamp.

Please play more before you talk.

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There are many leads now that are prepared to take down machamp with ease like overheat heatran. Have you heard of him? Or Lum metagross, CB azelf,choice band dragonite. and thats just to name a few. Any smart player will be prepared for one of the top leads today and won't get aimlessly blasted in the face waiting for a non confusion turn.

Random Pizzaman said:

No, that's wrong. Machamp stops rocks through confusion, and puts tremendous pressure on teams with suicide leads. Mono Stealth Rock is bad, obviously, but thats why there are 4 moves. And pokemon like Aerodactyl might as well be mono- SR, because that's their job. This lead isn't even that bad, but it's worse than most other leads (Metagross beats Machamp and Azelf much better than this, for example), and the Lead Gliscor set thats already on site is nearly identical to this, so theres no need for a new "Anti-Lead Set".

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But with this lead you don't have to waste another pokemon with stealth rocks. You can get to business and kick the other guys ass.

edit

Please play more before you talk.

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ok i got infracted because i could have hurt your feelings. So ill make this clear. Im not a beginner.