Bronzor (LC Analysis)

Dubs said I should do Bronzor so! I've never done any C&C work so correct whatever I fuck up

I'm not really sure what warrants a separate set in each case (most Bronzor sets have the same 2/3 staple moves), and IRC people couldn't really agree so just debate it out here and I'll go with the flow. Anything decided not worth its own set will be thrown into OC (or maybe AC)

---


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/bronzor

Status: done :)

[Overview]

<p>Bronzor is one of the most defensive Pokemon in LC, thanks to its typing and stats. Although it is not able to use Hypnosis because it is a genderless Pokemon, it still has many support options that it can use effectively. As with Bronzong in OU, however, one must beware that Bronzor does not have much offensive capability and allows setup from Pokemon who resist its attacks.</p>

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Light Screen / Reflect
item: Oran Berry
nature: Relaxed
ability: Levitate
evs: 220 HP / 8 Atk / 152 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Bronzor is a great utility Pokemon, and is easily one of the best users of Stealth Rock in the tier. The combination of Psychic and Earthquake hits many common Pokemon for super effective damage, preventing Pokemon such as Houndour and Gastly from taking advantage of Bronzor. The last moveslot can be customized to fit any given team's needs. Hidden Power Ice 2HKOes Gligar, while Light Screen or Reflect can be used for extra team support. Light Screen also allows Bronzor not to be OHKOed by non-Life Orb Houndour's Fire Blast, while Reflect gives Bronzor an easier time against the physical threats it will likely switch into. Keep in mind that if Hidden Power Ice is not used in the fourth slot, 4 EVs can be taken away from both Attack and Defense.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Other options for the fourth moveslot include Flash Cannon, Trick, and Recycle. Flash Cannon can be used for another STAB attack, although it doesn't hit anything in particular. Trick can be used to steal opposing Oran Berries, which increases Bronzor's longevity while diminishing the opponent's. Recycle is not implemented on Shoddy Battle, but can be used to continually receive healing from Oran Berry. The EVs are geared towards Defense, as many threats that Bronzor will check on a team are primarily physically oriented. If a more balanced EV spread is desired, 60 HP / 8 Atk / 152 Def / 4 SpA / 228 SpD / 12 Spe can be used, giving Bronzor even defenses of 23 HP / 18 Defense / 18 Special Defense. This allows Bronzor to take special hits slightly better, while physical moves will hit around 4% harder.</p>

<p>With this set, Bronzor also makes an acceptable lead, as it is able to combat common leads like Meowth, Aipom, Snover, Diglett, and Kabuto. If you choose to use Bronzor in the lead slot, Lum Berry can be used to protect Bronzor from Meowth's Hypnosis and confusion from Machop's DynamicPunch.</p>

<p>Bronzor's main uses on a team are to tank Normal-, Ground-, and Rock-type attacks and to check Gligar. Therefore, Pokemon who dislike these things make great teammates. Lead Machop usually loses to Fake Out leads such as Meowth and Aipom, so it appreciates Bronzor coming in to take those hits and set up Stealth Rock. Other Pokemon like Chinchou and Snover are in a similar boat. Bronzor itself needs partners to beat Fire-types who are common switch-ins, as well as Mantyke and Munchlax. Munchlax can tank most hits from Houndour and Mantyke and strike back hard, as can Chinchou. Other Water-types can also do this. Gligar or Fighting-types like Machop and Mankey can hurt Munchlax, though it is difficult to switch them in.</p>

[SET]
name: Field Effect Support
move 1: Rain Dance / Trick Room
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Stealth Rock
item: Damp Rock / Oran Berry
nature: Relaxed
ability: Levitate
evs: 220 HP / 8 Atk / 152 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Because of Bronzor's great typing, it is an excellent choice for setting up field effects. Damp Rock should be used if Rain Dance is chosen for the first moveslot, and Oran Berry should be used with Trick Room. Psychic and Earthquake are present to hit Pokemon who are threatening to Bronzor. Hidden Power Ice is solely for hitting Gligar, but Stealth Rock can be used instead to provide more support for the team. If Stealth Rock is chosen, 4 EVs can be taken from both Attack and Defense.</p>

<p>Bronzor is particularly good as a Rain Dance user because it can easily check two Pokemon who give Rain Dance teams lots of trouble: Snover and Croagunk. It also lures in Fire-type Pokemon, who provide easy switch-ins for most Rain Dance sweepers once rain is up. Furthermore, Rain Dance nullifies Bronzor's weakness to Fire-type attacks, effectively giving it no weaknesses.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Rain Dance Bronzor should be used on teams centered around Rain Dance. Thus, good partners for it are rain sweepers, such as Mantyke, Buizel, Kabuto, and Omanyte. Other teammates should also set up Rain Dance. Voltorb is a Pokemon who can set up Rain Dance quickly to offset Bronzor's slow Rain Dance, and works well type-wise with Bronzor.</p>

<p>Trick Room Bronzor, in a similar vein, should be used on dedicated Trick Room teams. Cubone, Krabby, Munchlax, Machop, and Trapinch are all good Trick Room sweepers. Pokemon other than Bronzor to set up Trick Room include Slowpoke, Porygon, Duskull, Exeggcute, and Shuppet.</p>

[SET]
name: Dual Screens
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Psychic / Stealth Rock
item: Light Clay / Oran Berry
nature: Sassy
ability: Levitate
evs: 220 HP / 4 Atk / 148 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Bronzor is one of the best Pokemon in Little Cup for setting up dual screens. Light Clay increases the length of both Light Screen and Reflect to 8 turns, allowing Bronzor to better support the rest of the team. Oran Berry can be used, but keep in mind that the screens will not last nearly as long. Earthquake and Psychic once again are present to hit common threats to Bronzor. Stealth Rock can be used over either Earthquake or Psychic if you need Bronzor to set it up. The choice should be dependent on the rest of your team; if Houndour or Chinchou is troublesome, keep Earthquake, but if Gligar or Gastly seems more threatening, keep Psychic.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Setup Pokemon operate best with dual screens up. Oran Berry Krabby is bulky enough to set up a Swords Dance or an Agility (or both!) and sweep. Anorith, Dratini, Gligar, and Bagon can all attempt to do something similar.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Gyro Ball
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Psychic / Trick
item: Macho Brace
nature: Brave
ability: Levitate
evs: 220 HP / 244 Atk / 4 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Under Trick Room, Bronzor can be a serious offensive threat. With a Brave nature, a 0 Speed IV, and Macho Brace, Bronzor hits a speed of 3, giving Gyro Ball 150 Base power against all Pokemon with 18 speed and higher. This also means that while Trick Room is up, Bronzor will move before any other Pokemon. Against more offensive teams, Bronzor should "outspeed" and OHKO or 2HKO almost everything.</p>

<p>Earthquake is a coverage move, hitting Pokemon like Chinchou and Houndour harder than Gyro Ball. Psychic works best against slower, more defensive Pokemon, such as Hippopotas. It can also help to ease prediction thanks to its fairly good neutral coverage. Rock Slide can be used over Psychic to 2HKO Mantyke and Paras, but it does not do much other than that.</p>

<p>Trick is an interesting option to go over Psychic. After using it, it will severely weaken Gyro Ball, but it can be used to cripple an opposing Pokemon. Because it reduces Bronzor's damage output so much, it is advised to use it near the end of Bronzor's sweep. Using it on the final turn of Trick Room can let you cripple the opposing Pokemon for the rest of the match.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Unlike the Field Effect set Bronzor, this Bronzor does not need to be used on a dedicated Trick Room team, and can act as more of a standalone sweeper. Still, Bronzor is unable to get past some specific Pokemon, and teammates should address this. Opposing Bronzor, Munchlax, and bulky Water-types such as Mantyke and Chinchou check this set with relative ease. Snover and Munchlax are two good options for wearing down these Pokemon. Munchlax in particular makes a very good partner, as it also appreciates having Trick Room set up.</p>

<h2>Gyro Ball Base Power Table</h2>

<p>This section is to help show when it is wise to use Gyro Ball and when it is not. It should also demonstrate the big drop in power when not using Macho Brace.</p>

<table class="sortable">
<thead>
<tr><th colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">Gyro Ball Damage Table</th></tr>
<tr><th>Target Speed</th><th>6 Speed Bronzor</th><th>3 Speed Bronzor</th></tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr><td>10</td><td>41</td><td>83</td></tr>
<tr><td>11</td><td>45</td><td>91</td></tr>
<tr><td>12</td><td>50</td><td>100</td></tr>
<tr><td>13</td><td>54</td><td>108</td></tr>
<tr><td>14</td><td>58</td><td>116</td></tr>
<tr><td>15</td><td>62</td><td>125</td></tr>
<tr><td>16</td><td>66</td><td>133</td></tr>
<tr><td>17</td><td>70</td><td>141</td></tr>
<tr><td>18</td><td>75</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>19</td><td>79</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>20</td><td>83</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>21</td><td>87</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>22</td><td>91</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>23</td><td>95</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>24</td><td>100</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>25</td><td>104</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>26</td><td>108</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>27</td><td>112</td><td>150</td></tr>
<tr><td>28</td><td>116</td><td>150</td></tr>
</tbody>
</table>

[Team Options]

<p>Since Bronzor is such a good user of Stealth Rock, Pokemon who can take advantage of Stealth Rock make nice teammates. Bulk Up Buizel and Dragon Dance Dratini are two examples, as Stealth Rock nets them some important OHKOs. Pokemon who force a lot of switches, such as Shroomish and Choice Scarf Gligar, can also abuse Stealth Rock.</p>

<p>Pokemon to help take Fire-type attacks aimed at Bronzor make great partners to all of its sets. Munchlax, Mantyke, and Chinchou can all switch into and threaten common Fire-types. A Houndour of your own can switch in to gain a Flash Fire boost, while Bronzor can switch in on Rock- and Ground-type attacks directed at Houndour.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Heatproof can be used as an ability instead of Levitate, but there is very little to be gained by doing so. While Spikes are uncommon in LC to tip the opponent off, it still leaves Bronzor unable to safely switch into Gligar, Diglett, and other Earthquake users. Although it prevents non-Life Orb Houndour's Fire Blast from OHKOing, Bronzor can't OHKO most Houndour back with Earthquake, so there is generally no reason to want to take the Fire-type attack.</p>

<p>Gyro Ball can be used as an attack on any of the main sets, but Bronzor is usually so strapped for moveslots that it isn't worth it, especially considering how weak Gyro Ball is without Macho Brace. Bronzor can run Protect to scout Choice items as well as to rack up residual damage. Bronzor can also potentially pull off a Calm Mind set, although it lacks reliable recovery and is strapped for moveslots.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Houndour, Magby, and other Fire-types threaten Bronzor with STAB Fire Blast as long as they aren't brought in on Earthquake. Mantyke can come in safely on every move, and set up Rain Dance or just blast away with a strong STAB Hydro Pump. Most Water-types, like Staryu and Chinchou, can come in and hit Bronzor pretty hard as well. Gastly must avoid Psychic, but it can put Bronzor to sleep with Hypnosis and then set up a Substitute.</p>

<p>Wynaut is a big threat to Bronzor, as it can come in on any of its moves and Encore, dealing with the situation accordingly. Magnet Rise Magnemite can also trap and kill Bronzor, as long as it is not brought in on Earthquake. While Munchlax does not particularly enjoy taking Earthquakes, it can take a couple and hit Bronzor back with a super effective Fire Punch. Bulky Pokemon with recovery moves, such as Lileep and Slowpoke, will beat Bronzor one-on-one. In general, Pokemon who aren't hit too hard by Bronzor's attacks and can set up make great switch-ins to Bronzor. Examples of these are Shroomish and Paras.</p>

Ok i have some ideas to make this more organized and generally make the slash more reduced. you should add two sets: one wall/lead and a set-up zong. most set up sets are usually additional comments or oc material, but bronzor really is an exception with good set of resistances and good bulk. here are the two sets i had in mind

[SET]
name: Wall
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Ice / Flash Cannon
item: Oran Berry
nature: Sassy
ability: Levitate
evs: 60 HP / 4 Atk / 228 Def / 4 SAtk / 148 SDef / 12 Spe

set comments will have mentions of the things you mentioned and emphasizing on countering the best physical sweeper in the game with hp ice. this is the very reason why i feel like hp ice should be the first option. flash cannon is lesser used.

in additional comments, i want to see this particular set being used in the lead slot. it doesn't really need a separate analysis because it has pretty much the same moves. it makes a great lead with reliable SR and ability to pillow fake out leads and deal with machop leads. dual screens also goes in the additional comments and can be squeezed in with either earthquake or hp ice/flash cannon. if dual screens is mentioned, light clay must be mentioned in tandem with the previous sentence mentioning it.

[SET]
name: Set Up
move 1: Trick Room / Rain Dance
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Earthquake
item: Oran Berry / Damp Rock
nature: Sassy
ability: Levitate
evs: 60 HP / 4 Atk / 228 Def / 4 SAtk / 148 SDef / 12 Spe

this should get its own analysis. trick room and rain dance are good set up moves in the lc metagame and bronzor is p. much the self-proclaimed master at doing this. two slashes is sufficient enough. additional comments should include sr if you want to set up both weather/trick room + sr.

Few comments on franky's sets:

I've seen a screen used quite often on lead/wall zor, and it can be quite useful in certain situations. I think the order should be HP Ice/Reflect/Light Screen with Flash Cannon in AC. While Reflect/Light Screen are used more, in this metagame HP Ice is arguably more useful. Gyro Ball, Light Clay, etc. in AC.

On the second set, sr should be slashed over something (it's that important) but i'm not sure what. Screens should be just put in AC, I've seen Trick Room/Stealth Rock/Reflect/Light Screen a few times.

Screens should get it's own set, something like Stealth Rock/Reflect/Light Screen/attack. not much to say about it.

I think the best place to slash SR would be over HP Ice on the second set.

I'm thinking Screens should probably be a third set since it requires a different item/two different moves, and Bronzor is one of the best Screeners..... SR would probably only be AC for me on a Screen set since giving it only one attack leaves it far too vulnerable to Houndour / Chinchou / whatever.

??


EDIT: updated

I definitely think the EVs need adjustment. The wall set needs max HP, as the current spread is really inefficient - then, I think physical defense needs to be emphasised, as while Bronzor is a good mixed wall it is mainly geared towards countering the likes of Gligar and Dratini.

Also if HP Ice is the main option, the EVs on the main spread need to be adjusted to account for that.

Adjusted the EVs to account for HP Ice.

I'm currently experimenting with EVs in the defenses. I'll provide calcs of random attacks Bronzor may/will take for each spread I test.

23/18/18 defenses (current spread)
25/17/17 defenses (220 HP/148 Def/68 SDef)
25/18/16 defenses (I'm guessing you meant a spread more like this?)
~~~

I'll probably end up doing something with those calcs, like ranking them in order of importance, so I'll update this post in a bit

EDIT: OK, I've decided the third spread takes hits the best. I'm OK with it take slightly more damage from special attacks in exchange for it taking much less physical damage. (I even like it better than 25/19/15 which I also tested but didn't post). I'm updating the OP so all sets but the Screener set use this spread.

Those calcs seem a bit odd actually. Why would two points in HP > a point in each defense make Bronzor take more damage physically but less specially?

Not a clue. It probably has to do with odd things in the damage calculator and that percents are weird with low hp values, but I'm running all my calcs again......

EDIT: yeah, i've double checked and they're correct

Dual Screen can run Oran to almost guarantee getting both up, even though they won't last nearly as long. You seem to have handled the slashes/set separation pretty well, can't see anything to improve right now.

A nice thing to include would be a table of Gyro Ball base power to show people when it's effective, and why it's not on the main sets. I can make it if you want, think I did one on the LCF once.. could dig it up.

Some kind of CM set should probably get a test and maybe an OC mention, I've not seen it working very well myself but remember hearing people talking about someone using it with some success on ladder.

Wonder if Recycle would be effective, 10 HP recovery is pretty nice especially since Bronzor can actually wall quite a few Pokemon. Could only test on PO though, unless someone's implemented it recently.

As for the EV spread, for sets without Oran the spread you propose makes sense, however Oran restores 45% of a 22 HP spread and only 40% of a 25 HP spread. Defensiveness of various spreads:

HP/Def/SpD
HP*Def
HP*SpD

35/18/16
Phy: 630
Spc: 560

33/18/18
Phy: 594
Spc: 594

34/18/17
Phy: 612
Spc: 578

33/19/17
Phy: 627
Spc: 561

Just a small suggestion/nitpick; HP ice can also be achieved with just a 30 Spe IV and 31 everything else--that might be a little bit simpler to understand. Nothing big, but that's the IV spread I've used when I go for HP ice.

---

I've also experimented with using a trick set to steal opposing mon's orans for more health recovery (see: munchlax/hippopotas/duskull/etc.) [Does this fail ingame if you don't have an item? b/c if yes than it's a shoddy glitch that might need attention]

Anyways, the trick set I used was this:

Bronzor @ oran
Relaxed/Sassy Nature
4 Atk / 228 Def / 4 SpA / 228 Def / 16 Spe [accounts for 30 Spe IV hp ice]
-SR / screen of choice
-trick
-HP Ice
-EQ



Basically the premise of this set is to maximize defenses, and steal opposing mon's Orans for health, while supporting the team via SR or screens. Even with a relaxed nature, the 16 spe IVs allow bronzor to outspeed 0 Spe EV adamant munchlax always. By using opponent's orans for health, you can maximize defenses to take hits well on both sides of the spectrum. Trick can also be used to steal a sweeper's LO/whatever item before going down--this has saved me in matches more than once.


Dunno if the above set should be included, but I've used it successfully in the past. I do however think the IV/EVs should switch to 30 Spe IV HP ice [when listed], as it's less confusing that way.

sorry about giving you extra work but hey, im giving you a stamp!



there is just one thing - trick room life orb offensive bronzor can be a huge threat and i would like a mention in oo as it, or, if you have as much success testing it as i did, write a whole set up

i used brave life orb gyro ball/trick room/earthquake/psychic iirc ill have to check to make sure

Zari said:

Just a small suggestion/nitpick; HP ice can also be achieved with just a 30 Spe IV and 31 everything else--that might be a little bit simpler to understand. Nothing big, but that's the IV spread I've used when I go for HP ice.

Click to expand...

I suppose it might be simpler, but I'm just using the Shoddy default which is more common. It doesn't really matter either way I suppose.

I've also experimented with using a trick set to steal opposing mon's orans for more health recovery (see: munchlax/hippopotas/duskull/etc.) [Does this fail ingame if you don't have an item? b/c if yes than it's a shoddy glitch that might need attention]

Anyways, the trick set I used was this:

Bronzor @ oran
Relaxed/Sassy Nature
4 Atk / 228 Def / 4 SpA / 228 Def / 16 Spe [accounts for 30 Spe IV hp ice]
-SR / screen of choice
-trick
-HP Ice
-EQ

Basically the premise of this set is to maximize defenses, and steal opposing mon's Orans for health, while supporting the team via SR or screens. Even with a relaxed nature, the 16 spe IVs allow bronzor to outspeed 0 Spe EV adamant munchlax always. By using opponent's orans for health, you can maximize defenses to take hits well on both sides of the spectrum. Trick can also be used to steal a sweeper's LO/whatever item before going down--this has saved me in matches more than once.

Click to expand...

I've tested this and decided that it will deserve mention on the first set in AC. It's helpful in certain scenarios, but there are also times where I wished I had a specific Screen or HP Ice or whatever else.

It is how it works ingame, so all set there :)

kd24 said:

there is just one thing - trick room life orb offensive bronzor can be a huge threat and i would like a mention in oo as it, or, if you have as much success testing it as i did, write a whole set up

i used brave life orb gyro ball/trick room/earthquake/psychic iirc ill have to check to make sure

Click to expand...

I tested this with Macho Brace over Life Orb, and I like it a lot. With Macho Brace and minimum speed, Gyro Ball hits 150 on everything 18 Speed and up.... which is a lot. It does ~65% to Gligar, as testament. I'm not sure whether Life Orb is a good idea since it removes the bulk that makes Bronzor so annoying, and EQ is still OHKOing Houndour either way so....

I will update the OP accordingly.

EDIT: I forgot to respond to eric!

eric da espeon! said:

Dual Screen can run Oran to almost guarantee getting both up, even though they won't last nearly as long. You seem to have handled the slashes/set separation pretty well, can't see anything to improve right now.

Click to expand...

Added this pretty much after you posted but forgot to respond. :)

A nice thing to include would be a table of Gyro Ball base power to show people when it's effective, and why it's not on the main sets. I can make it if you want, think I did one on the LCF once.. could dig it up.

Click to expand...

I don't know how to format it or whatever, but I'll be happy to make one for both the Wall set (or OC) as well as the TR sweeper set. I"ll probably update it into this post later and then i'll figure out formatting.....

Some kind of CM set should probably get a test and maybe an OC mention, I've not seen it working very well myself but remember hearing people talking about someone using it with some success on ladder.

Click to expand...

I haven't tested this yet, but I will try to soon. I may be surprised, it's happened before! Probably OC though.....

Wonder if Recycle would be effective, 10 HP recovery is pretty nice especially since Bronzor can actually wall quite a few Pokemon. Could only test on PO though, unless someone's implemented it recently.

Click to expand...

I don't have PO, so can someone else test this for me?

-------

6 Speed Bronzor Gyro Ball power chart:3 Speed Bronzor Gyro Ball power chart:I'm actually not sure whether the Base Power formula is 25*(target speed/your speed) or 1 + 25*(target speed/your speed). Bulbapedia/Serebii is the former while Smogon is the latter.... sooo..... I used the first one anyways.

bronzor is tried and true and long overdue


surprised no one did this analysis earlier, but it's really good and I approve
I'd like to see payback mentioned if it isn't already there since dark + ground gives perfect neutral coverage, even if payback is an inferior option to psychic, it's AC material at least.

i was going to but i have too much of a workload so i let dubs reassign it

I'm thinking about going Rock Slide > Psychic on the TR sweeper set.... but it's really weak and doesn't even OHKO pokemon that it hits SE (offensive Mantyke and Paras). Still, it is a solid 2HKO on both, which is better than Psychic in any case. Psychic does hit harder than Rock Slide, so I'm not really convinced either way.

EDIT: In testing I have decided that I like Psychic more to hit defensively bulky pokemon, but I will mention RS in AC


In any case, what is the best way to format a Gyro Ball power table?

Bronzor's pretty standard, not a whole lot to say.

BUMPITY BUMP.

I'm not actually done yet because I kept deleting my own work, but -all- that's left is team options/optional changes/counters. EDIT-Dis shit done

I really need help putting in Gyro Ball charts as i have no idea how to go about it correctly..... help????????

Thanks jc! :) I added your edits and then gave the analysis another proofread

Additions in bold, removals in red.
This was a great writeup. I honestly can find no error consistent or serious enough to say much more than that. Great job!

Cheers.

GP Check 2/2

Thanks again R_D!

Ok, i'm pretty sure this is done!