Ditto

Emperor · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:42:16 AM

http://www.serebii.net/abilitydex/eccentric.shtml

With the addition of Ditto's new ability eccentric ditto can now copy an opposing pokemon without wasting a turn to transform. This is a massive change for ditto as it essecially means that ditto is effectively any pokemon on your opponents team at any time with ditto's HP.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/transform

Assuming the transformation is still the same as transform this would also mean that ditto could come in to a stat boosted poke and copy it leaving it to a speed tie to determine who goes first unless you added a choice scarf or the like to the ditto.

Edit: Therefore, ditto can theoretically effectively outspeed every pokemon in the game not holding a scarf with a choice scarf on turn 1

Discuss this change!

doomvendingmachine · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:45:07 AM

Still too much of a gimmick imo for any serious battler. Who wants to rely on a 50/50 speed tie to see who wins a game? This will be used by a lot of newbs at the bottom of the ladder though i think.

Arc Tech · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:45:49 AM

Doesn't transform not copy the item? Meaning that if you give ditto choice scarf, it would always go faster than the opponent, making sure you can beat them without a speed tie. (does quick powder still work if ditto's transformed?)

~~Epic Cherubi~~ · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:46:56 AM

Christ. Choice Scarf Ditto could become one of the most solid revenge killers around, assuming eccentric copies boosts too.

If he manages to switch in on a boosting move he can cut down Lucario, Tyranitar, Gyarados, all Dragons, that mole, Ghost candle and I'm sure tons of others. If we get lucky and eccetric only works when you initially switch in you could steal the boosts of a dragon and start sweeping with a +2 / +2 Onono dragon. HP EVs makes your copy have effectively base 77 HP, which isn't terrible compared to some things he will be cloning.

Emperor · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:47:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arc Tech

Doesn't transform not copy the item? Meaning that if you give ditto choice scarf, it would always go faster than the opponent, making sure you can beat them without a speed tie. (does quick powder still work if ditto's transformed?)

yeah I added that in but since the species changes only C Scarf could be used not the powder.

DoctorOctagonapus · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:50:24 AM

How would this function in a double switch? would you copy the mon switching out or switching in? or would it be random?

milotic111 · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:53:54 AM

Well, if this ability like trace gets priority over the opponents attack when switching it in. It works kinda like trace porygon2 on jolteon ect.

For example the zebra with moterdrive and lightningrod. If you switch ditto in on moterdrive zebra using wild bolt or something, you transform into it (including previous boosts) and even get an extra speedboost due to your new moterdrive.

Rinse repeat for waterabsorb (CM suicine with waterabsorb and roar, you can try to ror it out now), flash fire, pokemon using attacks they are immune for themselves.

This way ditto becomes a lot more usefull, and even may be useable. But only if it has trace priority.

SupremeDirt · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:53:54 AM

I would assume due to positioning being a factor it would copy the thing in the same position as you.

Has anyone obtained one?

Emperor · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:55:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DoctorOctagonapus

How would this function in a double switch? would you copy the mon switching out or switching in? or would it be random?

Well, it would depend on the pokemon's speed (?) when you're switching out because you wouldn't know the order of occurence

Hamme Van · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:56:54 AM

At one point me and one of my friends had thought of Scarf Ditto, it sounded great on paper but the turn you transformed usually was the last turn Ditto did anything because of it's whopping Base 48 defenses. But now this Ditto will only take entry hazards damage and is hopefully more viable and will actually catch people by surprise. OU Ditto anyone?

Zcythe · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:56:59 AM

Giving this guy a scarf does make him a very potent revenge killer. Basically every SD/DD/NP/Agility user is killed by this set. Not to mention, after you kill them you keep there boosts. Besides stat boosters, he can come in on non-scarftran, Specs-Rotom, and such. Although I am not entirely sure, this guy may just change the metagame enough that pokemon refuse to use moves that are super-effective against themselves in fear of ditto.

I have just one question, does he copy the other pokemon's stats after calculating choice items or before?

HART4FLOON · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:59:32 AM

I'm really interested in how useful this will make Ditto. Hopefully it's like Trace and happens when you switch in. If it also copied the opponent's stat boosts then that'd be awesome!

Oh do I love pink blobs...

sora13 · Sep 19th, 2010, 11:59:45 AM

Doesn't he copy the enemy's item too?

**PK Gaming** · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:02:13 PM

So Pokejungle was right all along. I finally found the ability!

Yeah, you can basically turn your ditto into the the ultimate bandaid. (Choice Scarf Doryuuzu checks Doryuuzu etc)
Very cool.

Emperor · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Zcythe

Giving this guy a scarf does make him a very potent revenge killer. Basically every SD/DD/NP/Agility user is killed by this set. Not to mention, after you kill them you keep there boosts. Besides stat boosters, he can come in on non-scarftran, Specs-Rotom, and such. Although I am not entirely sure, this guy ma just change the metagame enough that pokemon refuse to use moves that are super-effective against themselves if fear of ditto.

I have just one question, does he copy the other pokemon's stats after calculating choice items or before?

Since ditto copies the current stats of the pokemon ditto should copy the scarf add on and effectively be able to outspeed every pokemon in the game on turn 1

Zcythe · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat sora13

Doesn't he copy the enemy's item too?

If it works like standard Transform, then no.

doomvendingmachine · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:04:09 PM

When i first posted i hadent thought about the potential of a scarf set. A serious, copetative use of ditto? could be.

milotic111 · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Emperor

Since ditto copies the current stats of the pokemon ditto should copy the scarf add on and effectively be able to outspeed every pokemon in the game on turn 1

So if you slap a choice-scarf on ditto, it's not even a 50/50 chance of revenging (assuming the opponent has moves to KO itself), but your alway's able to? That's interesting. Lol magnezone (just be sure to catch a ditto with HP-ground, I beleive HP-type doesn't get copied right?)

Zcythe · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:11:25 PM

Direcly from Smogon

...

This means that the new ability will not copy your opponents scarf. Unfortunately, this means no revenge killing Scarf-Flygon.

To another note, I am disappointed that it doesn't copy HP, as such we can try to revenge bulky pokemon like CroCune and CurseLax because we cant OHKO them but they can OHKO us.

red12345 · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:12:04 PM

You can scout the moves (and possibly the moveset) with ditto which is so sweet.

Emperor · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:16:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Zcythe

Direcly from Smogon

...

This means that the new ability will not copy your opponents scarf. Unfortunately, this means no revenge killing Scarf-Flygon.

To another note, I am disappointed that it doesn't copy HP, as such we can try to revenge bulky pokemon like CroCune and CurseLax because we cant OHKO them but they can OHKO us.

"The stats are copied exactly"

I don't see how you wouldn't copy the stat increase of the scarf as well

DDRMaster · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:18:27 PM

Even if Ditto uses a Choice Scarf, it still will only speed tie with the opponent's Pokemon if they use Dragon Dance on the turn Ditto switches in. Ditto will Trasform right as it is sent in and the opponent will get the DD off afterwards so Ditto won't copy the boosts. To me, using Ditto still seems really gimicky but it would probably be best used against Calm Mind/Curse Pokemon since it will copy the Def boosts as well. Ditto's HP is still really low, so it probably won't be able to take many hits even with the boosts.

kyu · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:26:01 PM

Weird, the data we have so far says that his Dream World ability is "Jack of All Trades", which boosts non-STAB attacks. I was wondering if Transform changed somehow so that Ditto retains his own ability. Eccentric makes much more sense, though, and it's exactly what I was hoping for.

~~Epic Cherubi~~ · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:27:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DDRMaster

Even if Ditto uses a Choice Scarf, it still will only speed tie with the opponent's Pokemon if they use Dragon Dance on the turn Ditto switches in. Ditto will Trasform right as it is sent in and the opponent will get the DD off afterwards so Ditto won't copy the boosts. To me, using Ditto still seems really gimicky but it would probably be best used against Calm Mind/Curse Pokemon since it will copy the Def boosts as well. Ditto's HP is still really low, so it probably won't be able to take many hits even with the boosts.

With max HP it gets 77 base HP which isn't terrible. Ditto has a 50/50 chance of beating a Dragon Dancer switching in, unless it comes in through a revenge kill or slow U-turn, in which case it will steal all the boosts and be faster.

In fact, fuck it. Let Ononono-whatever Dragon Dance up to +6. Who cares if he kills something, because you now have a slightly tougher Ditto that is much faster and just as strong. Outraaaage.

Arc Tech · Sep 19th, 2010, 12:28:42 PM

This could be the best revenge killer- most sweepers either hit themselves SE or don't have the defenses to survive their own attacks.
Doryuuzu is weak to EQ, Shanderaa is weak to Shadow ball, dragons are weak to Outrage, blaziken and nape can take their fighting attacks, Gyrados commonly carries stone edge, etc.

Plus then you get to steal their sweeps- assuming you can kill the rest of their team with 1 move. At the very least you get a strong hit on one poke.

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:42:16 AM	#1
Emperor Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 518	Ditto http://www.serebii.net/abilitydex/eccentric.shtml With the addition of Ditto's new ability eccentric ditto can now copy an opposing pokemon without wasting a turn to transform. This is a massive change for ditto as it essecially means that ditto is effectively any pokemon on your opponents team at any time with ditto's HP. http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/transform Assuming the transformation is still the same as transform this would also mean that ditto could come in to a stat boosted poke and copy it leaving it to a speed tie to determine who goes first unless you added a choice scarf or the like to the ditto. Edit: Therefore, ditto can theoretically effectively outspeed every pokemon in the game not holding a scarf with a choice scarf on turn 1 Discuss this change! __________________ Pokemon Black fc-5243 1202 3802 No unreleased Dream World Abilities or hax items I use Legal Hacks. Note: My router is rather picky with people and tends to block connections a lot. If you get an 86420 error it means I cannot battle you. I am sorry for wasting your time if this happens :( (this problem continues as long as you have the same connection) Last edited by Emperor; Jan 10th, 2011 at 7:33:40 PM.

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:45:07 AM	#2
doomvendingmachine I'm just a symptom of the moral decay that's gnawing at the heart of the country Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 991	Still too much of a gimmick imo for any serious battler. Who wants to rely on a 50/50 speed tie to see who wins a game? This will be used by a lot of newbs at the bottom of the ladder though i think. __________________ [12:26pm] <Earthworm\|Away> what is a chastity belt [12:26pm] <Earthworm\|Away> does it muffle my speech

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:50:24 AM	#6
DoctorOctagonapus Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 34 NY	How would this function in a double switch? would you copy the mon switching out or switching in? or would it be random? __________________ Black: 3525 1402 7249 Pearl: 2364 0203 5903 HeartGold: 4641 1558 9305

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:53:54 AM	#7
milotic111 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426	Well, if this ability like trace gets priority over the opponents attack when switching it in. It works kinda like trace porygon2 on jolteon ect. For example the zebra with moterdrive and lightningrod. If you switch ditto in on moterdrive zebra using wild bolt or something, you transform into it (including previous boosts) and even get an extra speedboost due to your new moterdrive. Rinse repeat for waterabsorb (CM suicine with waterabsorb and roar, you can try to ror it out now), flash fire, pokemon using attacks they are immune for themselves. This way ditto becomes a lot more usefull, and even may be useable. But only if it has trace priority. __________________ Soul-silver friendcode: 1935-3655-9447 Smogon wi-fi battles: Win:3 lose:3 Tie:1 D/C:2 If you use brelom, I'll run on sight for it saves time. Brelom completely assasinates me, so if you want a good battle, don't use brelom. ZOMG kecleon killing garchomp and scizor!!

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:56:54 AM	#10
Hamme Van Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 65	At one point me and one of my friends had thought of Scarf Ditto, it sounded great on paper but the turn you transformed usually was the last turn Ditto did anything because of it's whopping Base 48 defenses. But now this Ditto will only take entry hazards damage and is hopefully more viable and will actually catch people by surprise. OU Ditto anyone? __________________ Vader: is hebrew hammer heysup?

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:45:49 AM	#3
Arc Tech Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 661	Doesn't transform not copy the item? Meaning that if you give ditto choice scarf, it would always go faster than the opponent, making sure you can beat them without a speed tie. (does quick powder still work if ditto's transformed?)

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:46:56 AM	#4
~~Epic Cherubi~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 239	Christ. Choice Scarf Ditto could become one of the most solid revenge killers around, assuming eccentric copies boosts too. If he manages to switch in on a boosting move he can cut down Lucario, Tyranitar, Gyarados, all Dragons, that mole, Ghost candle and I'm sure tons of others. If we get lucky and eccetric only works when you initially switch in you could steal the boosts of a dragon and start sweeping with a +2 / +2 Onono dragon. HP EVs makes your copy have effectively base 77 HP, which isn't terrible compared to some things he will be cloning.

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:53:54 AM	#8
SupremeDirt Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 552	I would assume due to positioning being a factor it would copy the thing in the same position as you. Has anyone obtained one?

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:56:59 AM	#11
Zcythe Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 41	Giving this guy a scarf does make him a very potent revenge killer. Basically every SD/DD/NP/Agility user is killed by this set. Not to mention, after you kill them you keep there boosts. Besides stat boosters, he can come in on non-scarftran, Specs-Rotom, and such. Although I am not entirely sure, this guy may just change the metagame enough that pokemon refuse to use moves that are super-effective against themselves in fear of ditto. I have just one question, does he copy the other pokemon's stats after calculating choice items or before?

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:59:32 AM	#12
HART4FLOON Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 273	I'm really interested in how useful this will make Ditto. Hopefully it's like Trace and happens when you switch in. If it also copied the opponent's stat boosts then that'd be awesome! Oh do I love pink blobs... __________________ [QUOTE=New World Order;3943789] - Celebi is a penis, Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Scizor can take it[endQUOTE] oh baby

Sep 19th, 2010, 11:59:45 AM	#13
sora13 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 443 San Jose,CA	Doesn't he copy the enemy's item too? __________________ Veni, Vidi, Vici. Credit to for Plus for the awesome avatar.

Sep 19th, 2010, 12:02:13 PM	#14
PK Gaming Quiet Thunder God Moderator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,528 Izanagi	So Pokejungle was right all along. I finally found the ability! Yeah, you can basically turn your ditto into the the ultimate bandaid. (Choice Scarf Doryuuzu checks Doryuuzu etc) Very cool. __________________

Sep 19th, 2010, 12:04:09 PM	#17
doomvendingmachine I'm just a symptom of the moral decay that's gnawing at the heart of the country Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 991	When i first posted i hadent thought about the potential of a scarf set. A serious, copetative use of ditto? could be. __________________ [12:26pm] <Earthworm\|Away> what is a chastity belt [12:26pm] <Earthworm\|Away> does it muffle my speech

Sep 19th, 2010, 12:11:25 PM	#19
Zcythe Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 41	Direcly from Smogon ... Transforms into the target, copying its stats (except HP), moves (at 5 PP each), type, weight, and ability. The stats are copied exactly, without regard to EVs, IVs, and level. IVs of the target are copied for purposes of Hidden Power, as well. Transform copies the target's species, which means that DeapSeaScale, DeepSeaTooth, Light Ball, Metal Powder, Quick Powder, Soul Dew, and Thick Club activate only if the target is the correct species. Level is not copied, so a low level Pokemon does less damage than a high level Pokemon when using the same move (because the attacker's level is part of the damage formula). Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs keep their boost upon Transforming. The Transforming Pokemon is allowed to select a new move. If a Pokemon Transforms into Giratina-O, it will instantly revert to the altered forme of Giratina, as it is not holding the Griseous Orb item. This means that the new ability will not copy your opponents scarf. Unfortunately, this means no revenge killing Scarf-Flygon. To another note, I am disappointed that it doesn't copy HP, as such we can try to revenge bulky pokemon like CroCune and CurseLax because we cant OHKO them but they can OHKO us.

Sep 19th, 2010, 12:12:04 PM	#20
red12345 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 166	You can scout the moves (and possibly the moveset) with ditto which is so sweet.

Sep 19th, 2010, 12:26:01 PM	#23
kyu Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 76	Weird, the data we have so far says that his Dream World ability is "Jack of All Trades", which boosts non-STAB attacks. I was wondering if Transform changed somehow so that Ditto retains his own ability. Eccentric makes much more sense, though, and it's exactly what I was hoping for. __________________ D/P FC: 1676 1012 2099

Sep 19th, 2010, 12:28:42 PM	#25
Arc Tech Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 661	This could be the best revenge killer- most sweepers either hit themselves SE or don't have the defenses to survive their own attacks. Doryuuzu is weak to EQ, Shanderaa is weak to Shadow ball, dragons are weak to Outrage, blaziken and nape can take their fighting attacks, Gyrados commonly carries stone edge, etc. Plus then you get to steal their sweeps- assuming you can kill the rest of their team with 1 move. At the very least you get a strong hit on one poke.