Hippowdon (Specially Defensive)

Kevin Garrett · Oct 3, 2010

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/hippowdon

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Roar / Ice Fang / Crunch / Toxic
move 4: Slack Off
nature: Careful
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Hippowdon's Special Defense stat may not look impressive at a quick glance, but with its great HP stat, Hippowdon is capable of taking on some of the peskiest special sweepers in the metagame. Hippowdon can use its Electric-type immunity to switch into common threats such as Jolteon and Zapdos, both of which fail to 2HKO Hippowdon with Choice Specs and Life Orb Hidden Power Grass or Ice, respectively. Hippowdon can also switch into Calm Mind Jirachi and retaliate with Earthquake. Other notable Pokemonit is capable of handling are Life Orb Gengar, Mixed Dragonite, and Lead Choice Specs Heatran (Hippowdon can Slack Off the damage from Overheat to cut it to under half of its health on the second turn).

Hippowdon makes an excellent user of Stealth Rock. This variant is particularly good at using it because Hippowdon is capable of taking both physical and special attacks. Slack Off gives Hippowdon reliable recovery so it can stay healthy throughout the battle, making it difficult for the opponent to remove Stealth Rock permanently. Roar works wonders in combination with entry hazards by forcing the opposing Pokemonout, only to receive more damage upon returning to the field. If there is not a great need for Roar, there are other moves that can work in its place. Ice Fang works for eliminating Dragonite and Flygon, two threats that can otherwise only be phazed out. Crunch is beneficial if you are in need of something to take outGengar; it also works well against Rotom-A. Toxic offers consistent damage to work alongside Sand Stream and has excellent coverage with Earthquake, as the latter hits most Steel-types for super effective damage.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Here are some damage calculations that demonstrate Hippowdon's great special bulk with the given EV spread:

<ul class="damage_calculations">
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. Hippowdon: 36% - 42.4%</li>
<li>252 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 42.9% - 51%</li>
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 40.5% - 48.1%</li>
<li>252 Modest Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 44.8% - 52.9%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Psychic vs. Hippowdon: 38.6% - 45.7%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Grass Knot vs. Hippowdon: 69% - 81.4%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 55% - 65%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite -2 Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 27.9% - 32.9%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 79.3% - 93.6%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran -2 Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 39.5% - 46.7%</li>
</ul>

While Hippowdon can still take physical attacks like a beast, it loses the ability to survive boosted attacks from the likes of Lucario and other physical sweepers. To amend this deficiency, Defensive Gyarados is recommended as a teammate to Hippowdon. They are excellent partners for each other because Hippowdon covers Gyarados's Electric- and Rock-type weaknesses, allowing Hippowdon to switch into common threats to Gyarados. Since many of the aforementioned threats are special attackers, Hippowdon's EV spread has great synergy with Gyarados. Additionally, Gyarados offers a resistance to Water-type attacks and takes neutral damage from Grass- and Ice-type attacks aimed at Hippowdon.

If you want Hippowdon to take physical attacks more effectively, you can try using an Impish nature with an EV spread of 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD; this spread will give you the best of both worlds. The only downside is that it can be stretched thin easily and does not have the same degree of special bulk that the max Special Defense set has. The mixed spread would be recommended if you wish to only take on a select few special threats. It will still prevent Life Orb Gengar from 2HKOing Hippowdon with Shadow Ball, but wary switching into Calm Mind Jirachi, Jolteon, Dragonite, etc. Don't forget that Shadow Ball has the possibility of dropping Hippowdon's Special Defense by 1 stage, which would prevent from it being able to recover immediately with Slack Off.

Rising_Dusk · Oct 3, 2010

The appropriate set name is specially defensive, because Hippowdon is definitely not a special wall in the way something like Blissey is. Otherwise, I like this set, and I think it's useful and deserves an analysis. It can set up on different things, but has trouble with things that physically defensive Hippowdon doesn't; for instance, this set cannot take a +2 CC from Lucario anymore and is always OHKOed by it.

Megan_Fox · Oct 3, 2010

Ever since you brought this Hippo up a couple days ago on IRC, i was actually thinking about a specially defensive Hippo writeup so I'm glad you posted it. It looks good to me, though i would add Toxic to AC, it seems like it could toxic stall pretty well. I know you probably aren't too fond of the idea, but i would also mention Impish somewhere in the writeup since it does produce overall higher defenses. You know the set inside out so you can decide on that. Looks good anyhow so..

Or

Approved (1/3)

Kevin Garrett · Oct 3, 2010

Rising_Dusk said:
The appropriate set name is specially defensive, because Hippowdon is definitely not a special wall in the way something like Blissey is. Otherwise, I like this set, and I think it's useful and deserves an analysis. It can set up on different things, but has trouble with things that physically defensive Hippowdon doesn't; for instance, this set cannot take a +2 CC from Lucario anymore and is always OHKOed by it.

I'll change the set name. I was just copying what was listed in other analyses. Thanks for pointing that out.

Megan_Fox said:
Ever since you brought this Hippo up a couple days ago on IRC, i was actually thinking about a specially defensive Hippo writeup so I'm glad you posted it. It looks good to me, though i would add Toxic to AC, it seems like it could toxic stall pretty well. I know you probably aren't too fond of the idea, but i would also mention Impish somewhere in the writeup since it does produce overall higher defenses. You know the set inside out so you can decide on that. Looks good anyhow so..

Initially I had Toxic, but left it off because I was focusing on Gengar. I could add it, though. Would additional comments be where I would write about Impish nature?

Bad Ass · Oct 3, 2010

hello your evs are bad

252 hp / 72 def / 184 spd impish is really all you need; not 2hko'd by logar shadow ball, or 2ho'd by 252 spa rotom-a crit shadow ball + regular shadow ball + sr (or 3hko'd by a normal SB). also you should probably slash in crunch because it can beat ghosts with either spread. and for the record, sometimes i use toxic and it is sexy for making bulky waters think twice before coming in, as well as making it harder for shaymin to gain health when it leech seeds the switch. ALSO 700 Atk vs 319 Def & 420 HP (180 Base Power): 367 - 432 (87.38% - 102.86%) so it's only a 15% chance to ohko.

Kevin Garrett · Oct 3, 2010

How are they bad? With your EVs you can't switch into Draco Meteor from Dragonite or Flygon and Slack Off. It can't survive Specs Heatran lead either. Specs Jolteon also 2HKOs it. I could go on and on.

Bad Ass · Oct 3, 2010

a) hippowdon should not be taking on mix dragonite.
b) calculations

the most attack flygon can afford to run is 252 satk / 80 atk / 176 speed rash because it must beat lucario
252 SATK rash flygon draco meteor284 Atk vs 226 Def & 420 HP (210 Base Power): 245 - 289 (58.33% - 68.81%)
180 ATK rash flygon earthquake 256 Atk vs 319 Def & 420 HP (150 Base Power): 113 - 133 (26.90% - 31.67%)

which means that unless flygon rolls absolute max both rolls and sr is down he can't kill hippo. and fyi mine has a 43% chance to survive specs tran overheat but really why are you keeping in hippowdon on specs tran?

edit: dragonite calcs using max satk (hasty) and 32 atk
304 Atk vs 226 Def & 420 HP (210 Base Power): 263 - 310 (62.62% - 73.81%) draco meteor 67 average
152 Atk vs 226 Def & 420 HP (210 Base Power): 132 - 156 (31.43% - 37.14%) -2 draco meteor 34 average
304 Atk vs 319 Def & 420 HP (120 Base Power): 107 - 127 (25.48% - 30.24%) superpower

so two draco meteors, on average, will ko, but by one percent. and dm + sp will not

Kevin Garrett · Oct 3, 2010

Who says it shouldn't? If it can, it should be able to as long as the rest of the team doesn't suffer from it. That's just like saying Hippowdon shouldn't be offensive, yet we have a Choice Band set on site.

Why not invest heavily in Special Defense? I recommend Defensive Gyarados as a partner. That alone handles Lucario, Scizor, etc. If it doesn't have a huge investement, Jolteon would rip through the combination. As for its defense, max Attack CB Scizor U-turn does a good bit less than half. This spread lets it wall both sides equally. It can still come in on Scarf Flygon Outrage and Slack Off and many other physical moves.

Bad Ass · Oct 3, 2010

read my edit. hippowdon can, sure, but he values the ability to take on sd luke and sd ape etc more than being able to take one specstran overheat and live with 5%.

Kevin Garrett · Oct 3, 2010

Read my edit. If you Slack Off on Heatran Overheat, their damage the next turn is cut in half. It does about 90% max, so that means it will only do 45% the next turn. That's pretty big if you are wanting to use Hippowdon on a team without something like Blissey, Empoleon, Snorlax.

Megan_Fox · Oct 3, 2010

not to get off topic but yea AC is where Impish is to be mentioned.

Kevin Garrett · Oct 3, 2010

I think your spread is good Bad Ass and I will add that specific one to the additional comments, but the whole idea here is to be able to take on as much as you can specially. Calm Mind Jirachi, LO Zapdos, Specs and LO Jolteon, they are all very popular. It gives it a lot more cushion with maxed out stats. It's also more comfortable against Gengar for taking a hit and attacking or phazing, especially since Gengar can drop your SpD.

Bad Ass · Oct 3, 2010

okay i will take that

Philip7086 · Oct 3, 2010

Glad you posted this. Looking good!

Or

Approved (2/3)

Seven Deadly Sins · Oct 5, 2010

Just wanted to note that I back the fully specially defensive set over Bad Ass' mixed defensive set. Stall is the kind of team where not everything will be at 100% all the time, especially if Hippowdon is being required to check stuff like Gengar and Jirachi all the time. Having a spread based on saying "oh hippowdon can take these attacks at 100%" means that if it's slightly weakened, now it sucks at doing both. While offense is the kind of thing where hitting specific damage marks is preferred, and then dumping the rest into bulk, defense operates differently, and having a little cushion to make up for stuff like Toxic Spikes or Spikes or an unlucky Burn or something is definitely a good idea.

That said, this set looks good.

QC APPROVED (3/3)

Kevin Garrett · Oct 10, 2010

[SET COMMENTS]

Hippowdon's Special Defense stat may not look impressive with a quick glance, but with its great HP stat, it is capable of taking on some of the peskiest special sweepers in the metagame. Hippowdon can make good use of its Electric-type immunity for switching into common threats such as Jolteon and Zapdos. Both fail to 2HKO Hippowdon with Choice Specs Hidden Power Grass or Ice. It can switch into Calm Mind Jirachi and retaliate with Earthquake. Other notable things it is capable of handling are Life Orb Gengar, Mix Dragonite, and Lead Choice Specs Heatran. Hippowdon can Slack Off the damage from Overheat to cut it to under half on the second turn.

Hippowdon makes an excellent user of Stealth Rock. This version is particularly good at using it because it is capable of taking attacks from both spectrums. Slack Off gives Hippowdon reliable recovery so it can stay healthy throughout the battle, making it difficult to be rid of Stealth Rock even if your opponent has a Rapid Spinner. Roar works wonders in combination with entry hazards by forcing your opponent's out to receive more damage upon returning to the field. If there is not a great need for Roar, there are other moves that can work in its place. Ice Fang works for eliminating Dragonite and Flygon, two threats that could only be phazed out before. Crunch is beneficial if you are in need of something to take out Gengar. It also works well against Rotom-A. Toxic offers consistent damage to work alongside Sand Stream and has excellent coverage with Earthquake, as the latter hits most Steel-types for super-effective damage.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<ul class="damage_calculations">
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. Hippowdon: 36% - 42.4%</li>
<li>252 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 42.9% - 51%</li>
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 40.5% - 48.1%</li>
<li>252 Modest Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 44.8% - 52.9%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Psychic vs. Hippowdon: 38.6% - 45.7%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Grass Knot vs. Hippowdon: 69% - 81.4%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 55% - 65%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite -2 Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 27.9% - 32.9%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 79.3% - 93.6%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran -2 Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 39.5% - 46.7%</li>
</ul>

While Hippowdon can still take physical attacks like a beast, it loses the ability to live boosted attacks from the likes of Lucario and other physical sweepers. To amend this deficiency, I recommend using Defensive Gyarados as a teammate to Hippowdon. They are excellent partners for each other because Hippowdon covers the Electric- and Rock-type weaknesses of Gyarados, making it able to switch into common threats to Gyarados. Since many of the said threats are special attackers, Hippowdon's EV spread is just right for making a strong synergy core with Gyarados. Additionally, Gyarados offers a resistance to Water-type attacks and take neutral damage from Grass- and Ice-type attacks.

If you want Hippowdon to get more mileage with physical attacks, you can try using an Impish nature with an EV spread of 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD. That spread will give you the best of both worlds. The only downside is that it can be stretch thin easily and does not have the same kind of bulk that the max Special Defense set has. This would only be recommended if you wish to only take on a select few special threats. It will still prevent Life Orb Gengar from 2HKOing you with Shadow Ball, but wary switching into Calm Mind Jirachi, Jolteon, Dragonite, etc. Don't forget Shadow Ball has the possibility of dropping your Special Defense by 1 stage, which would prevent you from being able to recover on it with Slack Off.

Great Sage · Oct 11, 2010

Bold for insertions, italic for deletions.

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Roar / Ice Fang / Crunch / Toxic
move 4: Slack Off
nature: Careful
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Hippowdon's Special Defense stat may not look impressive at with a quick glance, but with its great HP stat, it is capable of taking on some of the peskiest special sweepers in the metagame. Hippowdon can make good use of its Electric-type immunity for switching into common threats such as Jolteon and Zapdos. Both fail to 2HKO Hippowdon with Choice Specs Hidden Power Grass or Ice. It can also switch into Calm Mind Jirachi and retaliate with Earthquake. Other notable things it is capable of handling are Life Orb Gengar, Mixed Dragonite, and Lead Choice Specs Heatran. (Hippowdon can Slack Off the damage from Overheat to cut it to under half of its health on the second turn).

Hippowdon makes an excellent user of Stealth Rock. This version is particularly good at using it because Hippowdon it is capable of taking both physical and special attacks from both spectrums. Slack Off gives Hippowdon reliable recovery so it can stay healthy throughout the battle, making it difficult for the opponent to remove Stealth Rock permanently to be rid of Stealth Rock even if your opponent has a Rapid Spinner. Roar works wonders in combination with entry hazards by forcing your opponents out, only to receive more damage upon returning to the field. If there is not a great need for Roar, there are other moves that can work in its place. Ice Fang works for eliminating Dragonite and Flygon, two threats that could only be phazed out before. Crunch is beneficial if you are in need of something to take out Gengar. It also works well against Rotom-A. Toxic offers consistent damage to work alongside Sand Stream and has excellent coverage with Earthquake, as the latter hits most Steel-types for super effective damage.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<ul class="damage_calculations">
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. Hippowdon: 36% - 42.4%</li>
<li>252 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 42.9% - 51%</li>
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 40.5% - 48.1%</li>
<li>252 Modest Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 44.8% - 52.9%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Psychic vs. Hippowdon: 38.6% - 45.7%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Grass Knot vs. Hippowdon: 69% - 81.4%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 55% - 65%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite -2 Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 27.9% - 32.9%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 79.3% - 93.6%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran -2 Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 39.5% - 46.7%</li>
</ul>

While Hippowdon can still take physical attacks like a beast, it loses the ability to live through boosted attacks from the likes of Lucario and other physical sweepers. To amend this deficiency, I recommend using Defensive Gyarados is recommended as a teammate to Hippowdon. They are excellent partners for each other because Hippowdon covers the Electric- and Rock-type weaknesses of Gyarados, making it able to switch into common threats to Gyarados. Since many of the said threats are special attackers, Hippowdon's EV spread has great synergy is just right for making a strong synergy core with Gyarados. Additionally, Gyarados offers a resistance to Water-type attacks and takes neutral damage from Grass- and Ice-type attacks aimed at Hippowdon.

If you want Hippowdon to take physical attacks more effectively get more mileage with physical attacks, you can try using an Impish nature with an EV spread of 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD. That spread will give you the best of both worlds. The only downside is that it can be stretched thin easily and does not have the same kind of special bulk that the max Special Defense set has. This mixed spread would only be recommended if you wish to only take on a select few special threats. It will still prevent Life Orb Gengar from 2HKOing Hippowdon you with Shadow Ball, but wary switching into Calm Mind Jirachi, Jolteon, Dragonite, etc. Don't forget Shadow Ball has the possibility of dropping it your Special Defense by 1 stage, which would prevent from it you being able to recover immediately on it with Slack Off.

No particularly pervasive errors, just beware of conflating the Pokemon and "you".

GP CHECK 1/2

Kevin Garrett · Oct 11, 2010

I updated the OP with those changes. Thank you.

Snorlaxe · Oct 11, 2010

GP CHECK 2/2

pink is grammar edits
blue is prose edits

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Roar / Ice Fang / Crunch / Toxic
move 4: Slack Off
nature: Careful
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Hippowdon's Special Defense stat may not look impressive at a quick glance, but with its great HP stat, Hippowdon is capable of taking on some of the peskiest special sweepers in the metagame. Hippowdon can use its Electric-type immunity to switch into common threats such as Jolteon and Zapdos, both of which fail to 2HKO Hippowdon with Choice Specs Hidden Power Grass or Ice. Hippowdon can also switch into Calm Mind Jirachi and retaliate with Earthquake. Other notable Pokemon it is capable of handling are Life Orb Gengar, Mixed Dragonite, and Lead Choice Specs Heatran(Hippowdon can Slack Off the damage from Overheat to cut it to under half of its health on the second turn).

Hippowdon makes an excellent user of Stealth Rock. This variant is particularly good at using it because Hippowdon is capable of taking both physical and special attacks. Slack Off gives Hippowdon reliable recovery so it can stay healthy throughout the battle, making it difficult for the opponent to remove Stealth Rock permanently. Roar works wonders in combination with entry hazards by forcing the opposing Pokemon out, only to receive more damage upon returning to the field. If there is not a great need for Roar, there are other moves that can work in its place. Ice Fang works for eliminating Dragonite and Flygon, two threats that can otherwise only be phazed out. Crunch is beneficial if you are in need of something to take out Gengar; it also works well against Rotom-A. Toxic offers consistent damage to work alongside Sand Stream and has excellent coverage with Earthquake, as the latter hits most Steel-types for super effective damage.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Here are some damage calculations that demonstrate Hippowdon's great special bulk with the given EV spread:

<ul class="damage_calculations">
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. Hippowdon: 36% - 42.4%</li>
<li>252 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 42.9% - 51%</li>
<li>252 Timid Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 40.5% - 48.1%</li>
<li>252 Modest Life Orb Zapdos Hidden Power Grass / Ice vs. Hippowdon: 44.8% - 52.9%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Psychic vs. Hippowdon: 38.6% - 45.7%</li>
<li>252 Timid Jirachi +1 Grass Knot vs. Hippowdon: 69% - 81.4%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 55% - 65%</li>
<li>200 Rash Dragonite -2 Draco Meteor vs. Hippowdon: 27.9% - 32.9%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 79.3% - 93.6%</li>
<li>252 Modest Choice Specs Heatran -2 Overheat vs. Hippowdon: 39.5% - 46.7%</li>
</ul>

While Hippowdon can still take physical attacks like a beast, it loses the ability to survive boosted attacks from the likes of Lucario and other physical sweepers. To amend this deficiency, Defensive Gyarados is recommended as a teammate to Hippowdon. They are excellent partners for each other because Hippowdon covers Gyarados's Electric- and Rock-type weaknesses, allowing Hippowdon to switch into common threats to Gyarados. Since many of the aforementioned threats are special attackers, Hippowdon's EV spread has great synergy with Gyarados. Additionally, Gyarados offers a resistance to Water-type attacks and takes neutral damage from Grass- and Ice-type attacks aimed at Hippowdon.

If you want Hippowdon to take physical attacks more effectively, you can try using an Impish nature with an EV spread of 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD; this spread will give you the best of both worlds. The only downside is that it can be stretched thin easily and does not have the same degree of special bulk that the max Special Defense set has. The mixed spread would be recommended if you wish to only take on a select few special threats. It will still prevent Life Orb Gengar from 2HKOing Hippowdon with Shadow Ball, but wary switching into Calm Mind Jirachi, Jolteon, Dragonite, etc. Don't forget that Shadow Ball has the possibility of dropping Hippowdon's Special Defense by 1 stage, which would prevent from it being able to recover immediately with Slack Off.

nice job overall (excellent set, by the way)

Kevin Garrett · Oct 11, 2010

I changed one sentence. "Hippowdon can use its Electric-type immunity to switch into common threats such as Jolteon and Zapdos, both of which fail to 2HKO Hippowdon with Choice Specs and Life Orb Hidden Power Grass or Ice, respectively." Choice Specs Zapdos can 2HKO with max damage rolls. Thanks.

Rising_Dusk · Oct 11, 2010

I love it when things get done quickly. ~~Uploading this bad boy.~~ Uploaded. Strong analysis, I made very few edits, added a mention of Blissey as a teammate for Water-type special attackers, and fixes some bizarre prose I found. Otherwise, it was great.

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