Psychic Arceus (Analysis)

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/arceus/psychic

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[Overview]

<p>Once upon a glorious first generation, Psychic-types were the dominant force of the metagame, with virtually zero weaknesses, and a powerful STAB that made all cower in fear. Truly, had Psychic Arceus chosen to reveal Himself at that time, He would have been the mightiest among gods. But alas, it was not to be, for Psychic Arceus appears instead in a time when His own devious Dark- and Steel-type creations run rampant, placing His very survival in jeopardy. Competition from other Psychic-types also threatens to overshadow the prowess of Psychic Arceus; the mighty Mewtwo, born of the technologies of mere mortals, actually completely beats Arceus on the offensive front; while Lugia, the harbinger of tempests and halcyon winds alike, surpasses even its creator in defensive ability. Psychic Arceus is unquestionably formidable, but whether He can make an impact against so many others remains to be seen.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Psychic Arceus, like every other Arceus forme, can be an excellent Calm Mind user. Funnily enough, this ultimately comes back to bite him, as he is often considered outclassed by Dark and Ghost Arceus, both of whom sport significantly better STAB, as well as Steel Arceus, who has a better defensive typing and can beat Blissey one-on-one. Additionally, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Mewtwo, Lugia, and Giratina-O are also usually referred to as "better" Calm Mind users, for their own reasons. This draws much from Psychic Arceus's appeal, but he's still completely viable.</p>

<p>Judgment is the same great, effectively 120 Base Power STAB move that all Arceus formes share. Following it, Focus Blast covers Steel- and Dark-types, hitting both super effectively, but leaves Psychic Arceus open to opposing Psychic-types. Conversely, Shadow Ball will hit Psychic-types super effectively, but leave Arceus open to Steel- and Dark-types. Finally, Recover is what sets Arceus apart from most other Calm Mind users—who can only rely on Rest for healing—by giving him a reliable recovery move with which he can take advantage of his bulk.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Fire Blast or Flamethrower can be a decent secondary attacking move, getting reliable coverage on Steel-, Dark-, and Psychic-types, but losing out on Tyranitar. Ice Beam is also usable for its harder hit on Dragon- and Flying-types, although STAB Judgment hits most for about equal damage, while Latias and Latios are both bulky enough specially to avoid being 2HKOed by it. The EVs are such because the only legally obtainable Arceus is received at Lv. 100, meaning he caps out at 100 EVs per stat (with Vitamins). Therefore, the best way to EV Arceus is to put 100 EVs in each stat, except for the one which is least useful, here being Attack. A Timid nature is used so that Arceus can still outspeed base 90 and 95 Speed Pokemon, many of which are prominent in Ubers.</p>

<p>Latias can handle every other Calm Mind user that can set up on Psychic Arceus with its own Calm Mind set, but shares, along with team role, Dark-, Ghost-, and Bug-type weaknesses with Psychic Arceus. Lucario has a 4x resistance to both Bug- and Dark-type attacks, allowing him to set up on Pursuits, Crunches, Megahorns, and other such things aimed at Psychic Arceus, or just hit hard off the bat with Close Combat. Darkrai causes problems for this set, so a RestTalk or Choice Scarf user such as Kyogre or Heracross would be nice. Finally, Magnezone can trap and KO Steel-types, who would wall Psychic Arceus if you opt for Shadow Ball.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>If it wasn't made clear enough, Psychic Arceus is heavily outclassed in many roles. In fact, the only reason a Calm Mind set is there is because every analysis needs at least one set. Despite being overshadowed, however, Psychic Arceus can pull off Swords Dance and RestTalk sets successfully; just know that Pokemon such as Ghost Arceus, Dark Arceus, Garchomp, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Lucario; and Steel Arceus, Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Kyogre; respectively, are probably better candidates for the job.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Most Calm Mind users give Psychic Arceus a hard time, as his poor STAB and typing allow many to beat him in a Calm Mind war with a simple type advantage. Latias and Lugia, in particular, give him the most trouble, as their huge Special Defense stats, resistances to both Psychic and Fighting, and access to Recover allow them to take everything Psychic Arceus can throw at them and eventually come out on top. Non-Calm Mind Lugia can also deal with Psychic Arceus by taking a hit and phazing him out with Whirlwind. Choice Band Scizor can take most boosted attacks (besides Flamethrower / Fire Blast), U-turn out, and leave Psychic Arceus weak enough to be KOed by most things. Darkrai outspeeds Psychic Arceus, and can put him to sleep with Dark Void or smack him with Dark Pulse before he can do anything. Wobbuffet can Encore Calm Mind or even Mirror Coat Shadow Ball to beat Psychic Arceus. Specially defensive Tyranitar can take a +1 Focus Blast if it has to, and then weaken Psychic Arceus with STAB Crunch.</p>

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Credits
  • QC Period - firecape
  • Epic Overview - Fatecrashers
  • GP Check 1 - Calm Pokemaster
  • GP Check 2 - TelemonianAjax
 
Couldn't it run a SD set to at least help differentiate it from Mewtwo? Zen Headbutt/X-Scissor doesn't get half-bad coverage, then it can run Recover, ExtremeSpeed, or Earthquake to hit steels.
 
SD should also be there and I believe there is a staller set that was made by someone as well.

SD/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake/(Twave or Night Slash) is the set from memory. The two big kickers are a 2hko on defensive groudon which ghost can't do and 1hko on Palkia after rocks which ghost also can't do.

I'll let whoever made the hax staller set speak for that one themselves.
 
The CM set is fine. It has its merits over Mewtwo, such as more HP and defenses. Its not completely outclassed by Mewtwo, though if you're talking about coverage, then Mewtwo is better.
 
Yeah, we've talked on Irc about this set, and well, it's quite frankly outclassed. Mewtwo is better for coverage and even gets Aura sphere to boot. Higher speed also puts Mewtwo in better position. Also Scizor is a good counter, 451 Atk vs 259 Def & 330 HP (120 Base Power): 150 - 177 (45.45% - 53.64%), +1 focus blast to the standard CB Scizor, and Cb U-turn does 70%, which basically forces Arceus to either recover or die if it's below 70% health. Also SD sets aren't viable, because of crappy movepool and defensive Arceus is pure Blasphemy.
 
God this got discussed AGES ago when the testing of arceus went on in the first place. Yes every single psychic Arceus set is outclassed and yes noone would really use them but just like luvdisc and farfetch'd all the semi viable sets should be put in.

CM is different because it has a little bit more bulk. Not enough to not be outclassed but enough that it is different.
SD is different because it has better stab than its rival ghost arceus. Yes that only helps with two three pokes and isn't enough to not be outclassed but it is different enough to warrant going on the page.
The paraflinch set is outclassed by steel but again it has a completely different typing which is enough difference to warrant the set going up.

Yes Smogon doesn't want to have useless sets on site. On the flipside of that we don't want a page with no sets on it when there are three sets that while being plain and simple outclassed are still different enough that someone may find a use for them should the slight difference actually make a difference for the team it is to be used on.
 
this Uber set is fine, I mean, it certainly outclasses many other Calm minders due to it's very all rounded bulk
 
Its not really a question of whether its outclassed by Mewtwo, its a question of whether it is outclassed by the other Arceus forms, especially Ghost Arceus. Ghost Arceus has the exact same stats but more immunities (Normal and Fighting) and MUCH better offensive STAB. (Ghost/Fighting gives perfect coverage while Psychic/Fighting is walled by other Psychics and Psychic/Ghost is walled by Steels).

Ghost SD Arceus also has a much batter STAB than Psychic: Shadow Force. This allows Arceus OHKO Palkia after an SD with no Rocks as well as always 2HKOing even Max HP/Max Def Impish Groudon after an SD with no rocks. It also nails Lugia and Giratina-A for OHKOes, and it also OHKOes Wobbuffet after an SD wheras Psychic Arceus can't do a thing it.

I am only approving the CM set.

QC APPROVED(2/3)
 
calze6 said:
Would running ice beam over an attack or recover be good as it can take down dragons easier like rayquaza?
Click to expand...
Not really, as one of the biggest reasons to use Arceus is the bulk factor and the ability to recover. Most of the dragons in the tier are actually hit decently with Judgment or Focus blast, except Lati@s, who'd just take the ice beam, which isn't even a guaranteed 2hko, and even avoids the 2hko by using calm mind. Lati@s is faster than Arceus as well.
 
Once upon a glorious first gen, Psychic was the dominant type of the metagame, with virtually zero weaknesses, and a powerful STAB that made all cower in fear. Truly, had Psychic Arceus chosen to reveal Himself at that time, He would have been the mightiest among gods. But alas, it was not to be, for Psychic Arceus appears instead in a time when His own devious Dark and Steel creations run rampant, placing His very survival in jeopardy. Competition from other Psychic-types also threaten to overshadow the prowess of Psychic Arceus; the mighty Mewtwo, borne of the technologies of mere mortals, actually has Arceus completely beat offensively; while Lugia, the harbinger of tempests and halcyon winds alike, surpasses even its creator in defensive ability. Psychic Arceus is unquestionably a powerhouse, but whether He can make an impact in the current metagame remains to be seen.

yeah i double posted

so?
 
"Judgment is the same great, effectively 120 Base Power STAB move'

Judgment has 100 Base Power, right? (http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/judgment)

edit: oh, yeah, that's weird. I wouldn't do that - even the ones using Life Orb/Choice Band/Specs don't do that. It would be like 140 Base Power Overheat with Choice Specs. Or... you can just ignore the item, which is what I would do.
 
Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments

[OVERVIEW]

<p>Once upon a glorious first generation, Psychic was the dominant type of the metagame Psychic-types were truly dominant, with virtually zero weaknesses, and a powerful STAB that made all cower in fear. Truly, had Psychic Arceus chosen to reveal Himself at that time, He would have been the mightiest among gods. But alas, it was not to be, for Psychic Arceus appears instead in a time when His own devious Dark- and Steel-type creations run rampant, placing His very survival in jeopardy. Competition from other Psychic-types also threaten to overshadow the prowess of Psychic Arceus; the mighty Mewtwo, born of the technologies of mere mortals, actually has Arceus completely beat offensively; while Lugia, the harbinger of tempests and halcyon winds alike, surpasses even its creator in defensive ability. Psychic Arceus is unquestionably a formidable foe, but whether He can make an impact against so many others remains to be seen.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Psychic Arceus, like every other Arceus forme, can be an excellent Calm Mind user; funnily enough, this ultimately comes to bite him in the butt, as he is often considered outclassed by Dark and Ghost Arceus, both of whom sport significantly better STAB, as well as Steel Arceus, who has a better defensive typing and can beat Blissey one-on-one. Additionally, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Mewtwo, Lugia, and Giratina-O are also usually referred to as "better" Calm Mind users, for their own reasons. This draws much from Psychic Arceus's appeal, but he's still completely viable.</p>

<p>Judgment is the same great, effectively 120 Base Power STAB move that all Arceus formes share. Following it, Focus Blast covers Steel- and Dark-types, hitting both super effectively, but leaves Psychic Arceus open against to opposing Psychic-types. Conversely, Shadow Ball will hit Psychic-types super effectively, but leave Arceus open to Steel- and Dark-types. Finally, Recover is what sets Arceus apart from most other Calm Mind users, who can only rely on Rest for healing, by giving him a reliable recovery move with which to he can take advantage of his bulk.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Fire Blast / Flamethrower can be a decent secondary attacking move, getting reliable coverage on Steel-types, Dark-types, and Psychic-types, but losing out on Tyranitar. Ice Beam is also usable for its harder hit on Dragon- and Flying-types, although STAB Judgment hits most for about equal damage, while Latias and Latios are both bulky enough specially to not be 2HKOed by it. The EVs are such because the only legally obtainable Arceus is gotten at Lv. 100, meaning he caps out at 100 EVs per stat (with vitamins). Therefore, the best way to EV Arceus is to put 100 EVs in each stat, except for the one which is least useful, here being Attack. A Timid nature is used so that Arceus can still outspeed base 90s and 95s, many of which are prominent Pokemon in Ubers.</p>

<p>Latias can handle every other Calm Mind user that can set up on Psychic Arceus with its own Calm Mind set, but shares a Dark- and Bug-type weakness with Psychic Arceus, not to mention role. Lucario has a 4x resistance to both Bug- and Dark-type attacks, allowing him to set up on Pursuits, Crunches, Megahorns, and other such things aimed at Psychic Arceus, or just hit hard off the bat with Close Combat. Darkrai causes problems for this set, so a RestTalk or Choice Scarf user such as Kyogre or Heracross would be nice. Finally, Magnezone can trap and KO Steel-types, who would wall Psychic Arceus if you decide opt for Shadow Ball.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>If it wasn't made clear enough, Psychic Arceus is heavily outclassed in many roles. In fact, the only reason a Calm Mind set is there is because every analysis needs at least one set. Despite being overshadowed, however, Psychic Arceus can pull off Swords Dance and RestTalk sets successfully; just know that Pokemon such as Ghost Arceus, Dark Arceus, Garchomp, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Lucario; and Steel Arceus, Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Kyogre; respectively, are probably better candidates for the job.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Most Calm Mind users give Psychic Arceus a hard time, as his STAB and typing allow many to beat him in a Calm Mind war with a simple type advantage. Latias and Lugia, in particular, give him the most trouble, as their huge Special Defense stats, resistances to both Psychic- and Fighting-type attacks, and access to Recover allow them take everything Psychic Arceus can throw at it and eventually come out on top. Non-Calm Mind Lugia can also beat Psychic Arceus by taking a hit and phazing it out. Specially defensive Tyranitar can take a +1 Focus Blast if it has to, and destroy Psychic Arceus with STAB Crunch. Choice Band Scizor can take most boosted attacks (besides Flamethrower / Fire Blast), U-turn out, and leave Psychic Arceus weak enough to be KOed by most things. Darkrai outspeeds Psychic Arceus, and can sleep it put it to sleep with Dark Void or smack it with Dark Pulse before it can do anything. Wobbuffet can Encore Calm Mind or even Mirror Coat even Shadow Ball to beat Psychic Arceus.</p>

Good job.

gpstamp


GP 1 / 2
 
Looks good.

[OVERVIEW]

<p>Once upon a glorious first generation, Psychic-types were the dominatingnt force of the metagame, with virtually zero weaknesses, and a powerful STAB that made all cower in fear. Truly, had Psychic Arceus chosen to reveal Himself at that time, He would have been the mightiest among gods. But alas, it was not to be, for Psychic Arceus appears instead inat a time when His own devious Dark- and Steel-type creations run rampant, placing His very survival in jeopardy. Competition from other Psychic-types also threatens to overshadow the prowess of Psychic Arceus; the mighty Mewtwo, born of the technologies of mere mortals, actually has Arceus completely beats Arceus offensively; while Lugia, the harbinger of tempests and halcyon winds alike, surpasses even its creator in defensive ability. Psychic Arceus is unquestionably formidable, but whether He can make an impact against so many others remains to be seen.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Psychic Arceus, like every other Arceus forme, can be an excellent Calm Mind user; f. Funnily enough, this ultimately comes back to bite him in the butt, as he is often considered outclassed by Dark and Ghost Arceus, both of whom sport significantly better STAB, as well as Steel Arceus, who has a better defensive typing and can beat Blissey one-on-one. Additionally, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Mewtwo, Lugia, and Giratina-O are also usually referred to as "better" Calm Mind users, for their own reasons. This draws much from Psychic Arceus's appeal, but he's still completely viable.</p>

<p>Judgment is the same great, effectively 120 Base Power STAB move that all Arceus formes share. Following it, Focus Blast covers Steel- and Dark-types, hitting both super effectively, but leaves Psychic Arceus open toresisted by opposing Psychic-types. Conversely, Shadow Ball will hit Psychic-types super effectively, but leaves Arceus open to Steel- and Dark-types. Finally, Recover is what sets Arceus apart from most other Calm Mind users, —who can only rely on Rest for healing, —by giving him a reliable recovery move with which he can take advantage of his bulk.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Fire Blast /or Flamethrower can be a decent secondary attacking move, getting reliable coverage on Steel-types, Dark-types, and Psychic-types, but losing out on Tyranitar. Ice Beam is also usable for its harder hit on Dragon- and Flying-types, although STAB Judgment hits most for about equal damage, while Latias and Latios are both bulky enough specially to not beavoid being 2HKOed by it. The EVs are such because the only legally obtainable Arceus is gottenreceived at Lv. 100, meaning he caps out at 100 EVs per stat (with vitamins). Therefore, the best way to EV Arceus is to put 100 EVs in each stat, except for the one which is least useful, here being Attack. A Timid nature is used so that Arceus can still outspeed base 90s and 95s Pokemon, many of which are prominent Pokemon in Ubers.</p>

<p>Latias can handle every other Calm Mind user that can set up on Psychic Arceus with its own Calm Mind set, but shares, a Dark-long with role on the team, Dark-, Ghost-, and Bug-type weaknesses with Psychic Arceus, not to mention role. Lucario has a 4x resistance to both Bug- and Dark-type attacks, allowing him to set up on Pursuits, Crunches, Megahorns, and other such things aimed at Psychic Arceus, or just hit hard off the bat with Close Combat. Darkrai causes problems for this set, so a RestTalk or Choice Scarf user such as Kyogre or Heracross would be nice. Finally, Magnezone can trap and KO Steel-types, who would wall Psychic Arceus if you opt for Shadow Ball.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>If it wasn't made clear enough, Psychic Arceus is heavily outclassed in many roles. In fact, the only reason a Calm Mind set is there is because every analysis needs at least one set. Despite being overshadowed, however, Psychic Arceus can pull off Swords Dance and RestTalk sets successfully; just know that Pokemon such as Ghost Arceus, Dark Arceus, Garchomp, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Lucario; and Steel Arceus, Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Kyogre; respectively, are probably better candidates for the jobs.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Most Calm Mind users give Psychic Arceus a hard time, as his poor STAB and typing allow many to beat him in a Calm Mind war with a simple type advantage. Latias and Lugia, in particular, give him the most trouble, as their huge Special Defense stats, resistances to both Psychic and Fighting, and access to Recover allow them to take everything Psychic Arceus can throw at them and eventually come out on top. Non-Calm Mind Lugia can also beatdeal with Psychic Arceus by taking a hit and phazing him out with Whirlwind. Specially defensive Tyranitar can take a +1 Focus Blast if it has to, and then destroy Psychic Arceus with STAB Crunch [COMMENT: This isn't possible. Ttar can take a +1 Focus Blast at 252/252 Careful, but then can't KO with Crunch (it can't even come close). If you put more into Attack, or even just switch to Adamant, there's a chance +1 FB OHKOs. Maybe say "weaken"?]. Choice Band Scizor can take most boosted attacks (besides Flamethrower / Fire Blast), U-turn out, and leave Psychic Arceus weak enough to be KOed by most things. Darkrai outspeeds Psychic Arceus, and can put him to sleep with Dark Void, or smack him with Dark Pulse, before he can do anything. Wobbuffet can Encore Calm Mind or even Mirror Coat Shadow Ball to beat Psychic Arceus.</p>

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