Cradily (OU Analysis)

I got permission from Rising_Dusk to take this over for Megan_Fox. Please give him credit for the moveset, and the skeleton for Set Comments and Additional Comments.



http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/cradily

[Overview]

<p>At first glance, Cradily may seem handicapped as a Curse sweeper due to the large number of weaknesses and only average stats compared to the rest of the Pokemon that reside in the tier. However, while Cradily's Rock typing may haunt it with a number of weaknesses, it does give a big advantage to it; increasing its Special Defense stat by 50% under sandstorm. That combines with the fact that it has access to Recover, a move that other Curse users such as Swampert, Tyranitar, and Regirock wish they had. Overall, Cradily is not completely inpaired due to a number of defining qualities, which allow it to be a potent threat in today's metagame.</p>

[SET]
name: OU Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Recover / Rest
move 4: Earthquake / Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
nature: Careful

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Cradily is an effective user of Curse, having several advantages over Tyranitar and Regirock, beginning with Suction Cups to prevent it from being phazed, and also not being weak to Water- and Grass-type attacks. Curse is a great move, boosting Cradily's average Attack and Defense stats, allowing it to hit harder and take hits more easily. Rock Slide is Cradily's main attack, gaining STAB and hitting most Pokemon who don't resist it quite hard after a few boosts. The next slot is up to preference. Recover allows Cradily to heal without going to sleep, and prevents it from becoming set up bait in certain cases. However, Rest completely heals Cradily, and also allows Cradily to function well even if it is hit by Toxic or Will-O-Wisp. Earthquake should be used if Recover is in the previous slot, giving Cradily more coverage, while Sleep Talk is the preferred option if Cradily carries Rest, allowing Cradily to attack or set up Curse while asleep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread maximizes Cradily's HP and Special Defense stats, allowing Cradily to take most special attacks with ease, especially when sandstorm is in play. The remaining EVs are put into Attack, allowing Cradily to hit a bit harder. No EVs are invested into its Defense stat because Cradily will be boosting it with Curse, meaning the EVs are better off being invested to add to Cradily's special bulk. Careful nature is used to boost Cradily's Special Defense even further.</p>

<p>A Pokemon with the Sand Stream ability is needed in order for Cradily to be most successful. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are both great options, being able to set up Stealth Rock, and provide permanent sandstorm in which Cradily can take more powerful special hits. A teammate who can switch into Bug-, Steel-, and Fighting-type attacks is also appreciated. Examples include Gyarados and Zapdos, who resist all three types which Cradily is weak to and will often attract.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Cradily has quite a number of options that it could opt for, but many are rather mediocre. Seed Bomb is by far the best move not mentioned above Cradily can make use of. Seed Bomb can replace Earthquake, providing Cradily with a secondary STAB attack, as well as being able to nail common physial walls such as Swampert and Hippowdon. Cradily can make use of a set consisting of Stockpile and Swords Dance, but this limits Cradily to two moves, and only one if it chooses to opt for a healing move, greatly limiting it's coverage. Stone Edge can be used instead of Rock Slide, trading accuracy for power, but is not recommended, as Stone Edge has low PP, and can be easily stalled out. Mirror Coat can be used to reflect any special attacks for double the damage, but doing this will also limit Cradily's coverage, only being able to use one attack. Toxic can be used to cripple bulky opponents, but is generally not worth a moveslot. Finally, Pain Split can be used over Recover, so Cradily can heal itself while damaging the opponent, but if the opponent does not have relatively high HP, Cradily will not be able to heal much, and the extra HP that Recover can provide is often crucial for Cradily.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Cradily has a number of counters, and most of them are Pokemon who have an attack which Cradily is weak to. Scizor is the number one threat to Cradily, having three moves that hit Cradily for super effective damage. Scizor becomes an even bigger threat if it carries Swords Dance, because it can Swords Dance to boost its Attack by two stages, while Cradily can only boost its Defense by one stage each turn. If Scizor manages to defeat Cradily, one of Cradily's teammates must be able to deal with a Scizor who has multiple Attack boosts. Metagross is another counter, having a powerful Meteor Mash to hit Cradily, which is further boosted by STAB. Meteor Mash coming from Metagross hurts Cradily a lot, even after one or two defense boosts. Similarly to Metagross, Infernape has a powerful STAB super effective Close Combat to dispose of Cradily, but is a lesser threat as it is much more frail, and Cradily can easily retaliate with Earthquake. Jirachi is a threat, because it can often flinch Cradily to death with a STAB super effective Iron Head. Jirachi can also Trick Cradily a Choice Scarf, rendering it useless for the rest of the match. Finally, Breloom resists anything Cradily can throw at it, use Spore to incapacitate it, set up a Substitute, and knock it out with Focus Punch.</p>
 
Perhaps the SpD EVs can be lowered to 172, which insures that Cradily is never 2HKOed by LO Gengar Focus Blast factoring in Lefties and SS?
 

AccidentalGreed

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No need to go max, I agree. It's plausible that some of the EVs should go into Attack for that extra pinch against Gyarados.

Other than that, Cradily's objective and set here is just about the same as Regirock's and Tyranitar's, so this set should go like hotcakes.
 
I think recover and EQ should definitely be the primary option. While it leaves you vulnerable to status, having Rock as a mono type leaves you walled by Steel types which is bad to have. Plus it lowers your list of Counters.
Just my 2 cents on Curse Cradily.
 
When most people see a Cradily, they go, "ARGH OMG STATUS IT"

In other words, Rest really helps in alleviating those annoying status conditions that would otherwise horribly cripple Cradily (especially burn and poison).
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
Shouldn't Swords Dance be an option as well? It poses a more immediate threat to offensive teams, since it boosts Cradily's attack twice as quickly, and plays much differently than the Curse set. Also, Seed Bomb is an extremely important move as it is able to threaten Hippowdon, who would otherwise out-stall Cradily, as +6 Rock Slide does not 2HKO (especially since Cradily's main role on a team should be to place enormous pressure on Heavy Stall). This is the set I have been using and it is working wonderfully.

name: OU Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Seed Bomb
move 3: Stone Edge/Rock Slide
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
evs: 224 HP/128 Atk/100 Def/56 SpD
nature: Careful

RestTalk Gyarados is really the #1 partner for this thing, as it is able to switch in endlessly against Steels and Fighting types who would otherwise put Cradily's life in danger.
 

deinosaur

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Well I would say this set seems to work, however I agree that the max SpD is not necessary, and I think that EQ Recover would work better because this is mainly to kill what it can until it dies, which it will do with the extra coverage.

Status will indeed be a problem, but as I said, this will do tons of damage before it dies.
 

Kevin Garrett

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Seed Bomb mention is a must. It reliably takes out Swampert and Hippowdon, two common defensive walls that could be pesky. The standard Swampert set is no problem, but if they are running Curse you are completely screwed without it. Also, Hippowdon can stall out Rock Slide and probably Earthquake as well.
 
K, so as for the possible attack EVs im a bit unsure about it because i kinda feel taking Special hits as efficiently as possible is more important. Its sort of like the Specially Defensive Hippo that was recently added on site, you can EV it so take certain attacks but the point is that you want to maximize Defensive Bulk. For Cradily taking hits as well as possible and cursing up is more important than slightly more attack IMO. I feel that a lot of the time, situations arent always Black and White, sure you might have enough EV's to take Gengars Focus Blast twice after SR but what if they put up a layer of spikes, or you had to switch Cradily in on a Flygon's U-turn as he then brought Gengar in? Point is Cradily can really use all the Defense he can get and after multiple Curses, Power shouldn't be as big of an issue. I do understand the concerns of those who feel otherwise though, so ill look into it more and get opinions of others.

As for Chesto, I dont see why there is a real need for it when you have recover. Chesto Berry gives you only a one time reliable recovery so i feel its inferior in comparison to the other two listed options.

As for Seed Bomb, sounds good. Seed Bomb will probably get a mention about possibly using it over sleep Talk. Mono Grass coverage is really quite poor but its true, it does cover some stuff that Rock Slide (with or without EQ) cant cover.

For SD, i considered a Stock Pile + SD but i decided it wasnt really worth it as it takes up two moveslots. As for the set you suggested, it doesnt seem bad, but my main concern is that it lacks Bulk and that in combination with low speed isnt good. Ill test it though.

As for those who think Recover + EQ should be the main option, even though its a slash, ill be sure to explain that both are equally good options.
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
For SD, i considered a Stock Pile + SD but i decided it wasnt really worth it as it takes up two moveslots. As for the set you suggested, it doesnt seem bad, but my main concern is that it lacks Bulk and that in combination with low speed isnt good. Ill test it though.
It does not "lack" bulk.

LO Heatran Fire Blast (in sandstorm) vs. 224 HP/56 SpD Cradily: 37.67% - 44.72% (0% chance to 2HKO after SR)

Dragonite LO 252 SpA Draco Meteor: 39.4% - 46.5%

Starmie 252 SpA LO Ice Beam: 33.1% - 39%

Flygon 252 Atk ~Natured Outrage vs. 224 HP/100 Def Cradily: 40.7% - 47.9%

This Cradily takes special hits extremely well and can also tank most physical hits decently. It dies to Close Combat and CB Scizor's U-Turn, but that's why you should pair this with RestTalk Gyarados! Curse Cradily won't like taking these attacks either.
 
ok, perhaps i said that wrong. It doesn't "lack" Bulk but its not as Bulky as Curse Cradily both Specially but more importantly Physically. Yes its true, Curse Cradily doesn't appreciate Strong Physical Attacks but the point is it tanks attacks much more efficiently. Still, your points are valid so like I said, I will test it but im still unsure of it. Cradily doesn't "have" to deal more damage in a quicker period of time if its capable of setting up slowly and more reliably without the worry of being phazed away unlike other similar sweepers.
 

panamaxis

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Just going to throw it out there that cradily is 100000x better with recover and EQ than rest and sleep talk. Cradily should not be treated as a sweeper that can wall, it is a wall that can sweep. For example:
LO Heatran Fire Blast (in sandstorm) vs. 224 HP/56 SpD Cradily: 37.67% - 44.72% (0% chance to 2HKO after SR)

Dragonite LO 252 SpA Draco Meteor: 39.4% - 46.5%

Starmie 252 SpA LO Ice Beam: 33.1% - 39%

Flygon 252 Atk ~Natured Outrage vs. 224 HP/100 Def Cradily: 40.7% - 47.9%
Pretty sure this means jack all if you can't recover it off in one turn. You pretty much have to rest or lose to these pokemon the next time they come in. Not to mention EQ let's you beat skarmory (it stalls out RS with roost) hippowdon (same thing), while providing a pathway to get rid of metagross, lucario and infernape in one or two turns. Perhaps most importantly it provides an insanely good counter to CM jirachi with earthquake.

As for those who think Recover + EQ should be the main option, even though its a slash, ill be sure to explain that both are equally good options.
They're not equally good options...they serve completely different objectives and change the way cradily has to be played drastically....

tl;dr: Walling should be the primary objective, sweeping is secondary. Being able to take common attacks consistently >>>> having a way to get past status. Recover and Earthquake should be the primary option in the slash.
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
Being able to take common attacks consistently >>>> having a way to get past status.
Agreed, instant recovery is just too good to pass up. Anyway, Cradily doesn't care about Thunder Wave and can switch in to the first layer of Toxic Spikes to avoid Toxic damage. Burn will always be annoying, but most users of Will-O-Wisp can't hurt Cradily.

The argument of whether you should have Seed Bomb or Earthquake just depends on the rest of your team. If you lack a good counter to CursePert, Seed Bomb would be superior, but if CM Jirachi is a problem for your team to handle, EQ would be superior.
 
I had Resttalk as the main option because I seem to get status'd most of the time when i use Cradily whether it be Burn, Sleep, or Poison. Because of this I generally have preferred Resttalk > recover but I have no problem switching them around. Based off the posts in this thread, it does seem like recover is overall preferred more so I'll change the OP accordingly.
 

shrang

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Any mention about a "Baton Pass receiver" set?? Suction Cups is what sets Cradily apart from other receivers, and that should get a mention at least.
 
I broke the thread halp!! /fix

I accidentally ravaged SDS's post in the topic and can't really save it, so I am posting the contents here for reference:
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Just a note- since Recover and Earthquake are slashes, they should be in main set comments, not additional comments.

Also, while I can understand going with maximum special bulk. Cradily doesn't have much offense to its name. Might be a good idea to see if some of those EVs can be moved into Attack, possibly?
 

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I got permission from Rising_Dusk to take this over for Megan_Fox. Please give him credit for the moveset, and the skeleton for Set Comments and Additional Comments.



http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/cradily

[Overview]

<p>At first glance, Cradily may seem outclassed as a Curse sweeper due to quite a the large number of weaknesses, as well as and only average stats compared to the rest of the Pokemon that reside in the tier. However, while Cradily's Rock typing may haunt it with a number of weaknesses, it does give a big advantage to it,; and that is increasing it's Special Defense stat by 50% under sandstorm. That combines along with the fact that it has access to both Recover, means it has a reliable way of healing, and is a move that other Curse users such as Swampert, Tyranitar, and Regirock wish they had. Overall, Cradily is not completely outclassed due to a number of defining qualities, that which allow it to be a potent threat in today's metagame.</p>

[SET]
name: OU Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Recover / Rest
move 4: Earthquake / Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
nature: Careful

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Cradily is an effective user of Curse, having several advantages over Tyranitar and Regirock, namely beginning with Suction Cups to prevent it from being phazed, and also not being weak to Water- and Grass-type attacks. Curse is a great move, boosting Cradily’s average Attack and Defense stats, allowing it to hit harder and take hits better more easily. Rock Slide is Cradily’s main attack, gaining STAB, and hitting most Pokemon who don’t resist it quite hard after a few boosts. The next slot is up to preference. Recover allows Cradily to heal without going to sleep, and prevents it from becoming set up bait in certain cases. However, Rest completely heals Cradily, and also allows Cradily to function well even if it is hit by Toxic or Will-O-Wisp. Earthquake should be used if Recover is in the previous slot, giving Cradily more coverage, while Sleep Talk is the preferred option if the previous moveslot was Cradily carries Rest, allowing Cradily to attack or set up Curse while asleep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread maximizes Cradily's HP and Special Defense stats, allowing Cradily to take most special attacks with ease, especially when sandstorm is in play. The remaining EVs are put into Attack, allowing Cradily to hit a bit harder. No EVs are invested into it's Defense stat, because Cradily will be boosting it with Curse, meaning the EVs are better off being invested to turn Cradily into a bulky special tank add to Cradily's special bulk. Careful nature is used to boost Cradily’s Special Defense even further.</p>

<p>A Pokemon with the Sand Stream ability is needed in order for Cradily to be most successful. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are both great options, being able to set up Stealth Rock, and provide permanent sandstorm in which Cradily can take more powerful special hits much better. A teammate who can switch into Bug-, Steel-, and Fighting-type attacks are is also appreciated. Examples include Gyarados and Zapdos, who resist all three types which Cradily is weak to and will often attract.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Cradily has quite a number of options that it could opt for, but many are rather mediocre. Seed Bomb is by far the best move not mentioned above Cradily can make use of. Seed Bomb can replace Earthquake, providing Cradily with a secondary STAB attack, as well as being able to nail common physial walls such as Swampert and Hippowdon. Cradily can make use of a set consisting of Stockpile and Swords Dance, but this limits Cradily to two moves, and only one if it chooses to opt for a healing move, greatly limiting it's coverage. Stone Edge can be used instead of Rock Slide, trading accuracy for power, but is not recommended, as Stone Edge has little low PP, and can be easily stalled out. Mirror Coat can be used to reflect any special attacks for double the damage, but doing this will also limit Cradily's coverage, only being able to use one attack. Toxic can be used to cripple bulky opponents, but is generally not worth a moveslot. Finally, Pain Split can be used over Recover, so Cradily can healing itself while damaging the opponent, but if the opponent does not have relatively high HP, Cradily will not be able to heal much, and the extra HP that Recover can provide is often crucial for Cradily.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Cradily has a number of counters, and most of them are Pokemon who have an attack which Cradily is weak to. Scizor is the number one threat to Cradily, having three moves that hit Cradily for super effective damage. Scizor becomes an even bigger threat if it carries Swords Dance, because it can Swords Dance to boost it's Attack by two stages, while Cradily can only boost it's Defense by one stage each turn. If Scizor manages to defeat Cradily, one of Cradily's teammates must be able to deal with a Scizor who has multiple Attack boosts. Metagross is another counter, having a powerful Meteor Mash to hit Cradily, which is further boosted by STAB. Meteor Mash coming off of from Metagross hurts Cradily a lot, even after one or two Curse defense boosts. Similarly to Metagross, Infernape has a powerful STAB super effective Close Combat to dispose of Cradily, but is a lesser threat as it is much more frail, and Cradily can easily retaliate with Earthquake. Jirachi is a threat, because it can often flinch Cradily to death with a STAB super effective Iron Head. Jirachi can also Trick Cradily a Choice Scarf, rendering it useless for the rest of the match. Finally, Breloom resists anything Cradily can throw at it, use Spore to incapacitate it, set up a Substitute, and knock it out with Focus Punch.</p>
Double EDIT: oops

GP 1/2

 

Chou Toshio

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add/change
delete

[Overview]

<p>At first glance, Cradily may seem outclassed handicapped as a Curse sweeper due to quite a the large number of weaknesses, as well as and only average stats compared to the rest of the Pokemon that reside in the tier. However, while Cradily's Rock typing may haunt it with a number of weaknesses, it does give a big advantage to it,; and that is increasing it's Special Defense stat by 50% under sandstorm. That combines along with the fact that it has access to both Recover, means it has a reliable way of healing, and is a move that other Curse users such as Swampert, Tyranitar, and Regirock wish they had. Overall, Cradily is not completely outclassed inpaired due to a number of defining qualities, that which allow it to be a potent threat in today's metagame.</p>

[SET]
name: OU Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Recover / Rest
move 4: Earthquake / Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
nature: Careful

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Cradily is an effective user of Curse, having several advantages over Tyranitar and Regirock, namely beginning with Suction Cups to prevent it from being phazed, and also not being weak to Water- and Grass-type attacks. Curse is a great move, boosting Cradily's average Attack and Defense stats, allowing it to hit harder and take hits better more easily. Rock Slide is Cradily's main attack, gaining STAB, and hitting most Pokemon who don't resist it quite hard after a few boosts. The next slot is up to preference. Recover allows Cradily to heal without going to sleep, and prevents it from becoming set up bait in certain cases. However, Rest completely heals Cradily, and also allows Cradily to function well even if it is hit by Toxic or Will-O-Wisp. Earthquake should be used if Recover is in the previous slot, giving Cradily more coverage, while Sleep Talk is the preferred option if the previous moveslot was Cradily carries Rest, allowing Cradily to attack or set up Curse while asleep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread maximizes Cradily's HP and Special Defense stats, allowing Cradily to take most special attacks with ease, especially when sandstorm is in play. The remaining EVs are put into Attack, allowing Cradily to hit a bit harder. No EVs are invested into it's Defense stat, because Cradily will be boosting it with Curse, meaning the EVs are better off being invested to turn Cradily into a bulky special tank add to Cradily's special bulk. Careful nature is used to boost Cradily's Special Defense even further.</p>

<p>A Pokemon with the Sand Stream ability is needed in order for Cradily to be most successful. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are both great options, being able to set up Stealth Rock, and provide permanent sandstorm in which Cradily can take more powerful special hits much better. A teammate who can switch into Bug-, Steel-, and Fighting-type attacks are is also appreciated. Examples include Gyarados and Zapdos, who resist all three types which Cradily is weak to and will often attract.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Cradily has quite a number of options that it could opt for, but many are rather mediocre. Seed Bomb is by far the best move not mentioned above Cradily can make use of. Seed Bomb can replace Earthquake, providing Cradily with a secondary STAB attack, as well as being able to nail common physial walls such as Swampert and Hippowdon. Cradily can make use of a set consisting of Stockpile and Swords Dance, but this limits Cradily to two moves, and only one if it chooses to opt for a healing move, greatly limiting it's coverage. Stone Edge can be used instead of Rock Slide, trading accuracy for power, but is not recommended, as Stone Edge has little low PP, and can be easily stalled out. Mirror Coat can be used to reflect any special attacks for double the damage, but doing this will also limit Cradily's coverage, only being able to use one attack. Toxic can be used to cripple bulky opponents, but is generally not worth a moveslot. Finally, Pain Split can be used over Recover, so Cradily can healing itself while damaging the opponent, but if the opponent does not have relatively high HP, Cradily will not be able to heal much, and the extra HP that Recover can provide is often crucial for Cradily.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Cradily has a number of counters, and most of them are Pokemon who have an attack which Cradily is weak to. Scizor is the number one threat to Cradily, having three moves that hit Cradily for super effective damage. Scizor becomes an even bigger threat if it carries Swords Dance, because it can Swords Dance to boost it's Attack by two stages, while Cradily can only boost it's Defense by one stage each turn. If Scizor manages to defeat Cradily, one of Cradily's teammates must be able to deal with a Scizor who has multiple Attack boosts. Metagross is another counter, having a powerful Meteor Mash to hit Cradily, which is further boosted by STAB. Meteor Mash coming off of from Metagross hurts Cradily a lot, even after one or two Curse defense boosts. Similarly to Metagross, Infernape has a powerful STAB super effective Close Combat to dispose of Cradily, but is a lesser threat as it is much more frail, and Cradily can easily retaliate with Earthquake. Jirachi is a threat, because it can often flinch Cradily to death with a STAB super effective Iron Head. Jirachi can also Trick Cradily a Choice Scarf, rendering it useless for the rest of the match. Finally, Breloom resists anything Cradily can throw at it, use Spore to incapacitate it, set up a Substitute, and knock it out with Focus Punch.</p>



Looks great guys (yes, I barely did anything-- that's a good thing!). Just watch the curly apostrophes. Also, if you want to keep the word "outclassed" in the Overview, you might want to mention some of the other cursors, though cursing is such a rare strategy that I don't think people really worry about whether or not something ouclasses this or that. Curse Tar, Curse Cradily or Curse Swampert are all just way too different from each other.

GP 2/2

 
I hate you, and this is why I will upload your analysis.

EDIT:
Not bad, but there's a lot of nasty repetitious prose that I had to go through and fix. You also really got who/which/that and he/it mixed up, so I had to fix that as well. Other than these issues, good job!
 

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