Golem (Substitute + 3 Attacks)

marilli

marilli

I COULD BE BANNED!
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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/golem

[SET]
name: Substitute + 3 Attacks
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Explosion
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Sucker Punch
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Substitute, Golem can gain some extra leverage and ease prediction. Since fast special attackers are physically frail, those that attempt to switch in on an immunity or resistance will be put into an awkward position. This Golem can also act as an excellent lure for all bulky Water-types in UU, most notably Milotic. When behind a Substitute, it can safely Explode on bulky Water-types without worrying about being outsped.</p>

<p>Explosion is required to net a clean OHKO on the bulky Water-types that Golem will lure, while Earthquake and Stone Edge provide strong STABs with good coverage. To illustrate Golem's power, Life Orb Earthquake will OHKO standard Registeel and deal 80% minimum to 4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur, while Stone Edge will 3HKO defensive Uxie and OHKO offensive Rotom. Alternatively, Stone Edge can be dropped for Sucker Punch, which bypasses its pathetic Speed and has good synergy with Substitute.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The item choice dictates how Golem plays. On the one hand, using a Life Orb allows Golem to hit much harder, but since Life Orb in tandem with Substitute will be rapidly draining Golem's HP, it is forced to be played as offensively as possible. On the other hand, Leftovers keeps Golem healthy and recovers HP lost from using Substitute. The given Speed EVs allow Golem to outspeed Chansey and Registeel without Speed investment, but 4 additional EVs can be used, as outspeeding 4 Speed Donphan is quite crucial. Attack is maxed so that Golem can dish out as much damage as possible, while the remaining EVs are allocated to HP for additional bulk.</p>

<p>This Golem thrives on breaking tanks and walls. Hence, you should consider having sweepers that capitalize on its work. Normal-type sweepers such as Swellow and Kangaskhan love Registeel gone. Blaziken, Feraligatr, and all rain sweepers can take advantage of bulky Water-types being removed. Golem appreciates another Normal-type resistor capable of checking Normal-types. Otherwise, your team can be left vulnerable to Ambipom and Swellow after Golem uses Explosion. Omastar and Kabutops resist Normal-type moves, and they can also sweep with opposing bulky Water-type gone. However, beware of the horrid synergy they have with Golem.</p>

<p>Predicting Explosion and preventing Golem from setting up Substitute are perhaps the easiest ways to counter it. Uxie and Claydol can take its hits and set up on it or break its Substitutes. Ghost-types, like Spiritomb and Rotom, are likely to switch in on a predicted Explosion, which could essentially waste Golem's life. Therefore, Pursuit users are good teammates; they can efficiently remove Ghost-types and scare the bulky Psychic-types. However, Claydol and Uxie are bulky enough to survive STAB Pursuits, especially behind Reflect. Since they are often seen in the lead slot, fast Sleep Powder and Taunt leads can effectively shut them down.</p>

Skeleton:
Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Reliably lures out a top metagame threat Milotic, and other bulky waters, and kills them with little prediction required (Sub on the Switch, Explode while they break your sub)
-Can do similar things to physically bulky grassers such as tangrowth
-A welcome normal/ flying resistance that allows to set up substitutes by scaring out Normal- type attackers common in UU
-Fills quite a differnt role from the subperior set, similar to SubTran of UU


Additional Comments:
-Given speed EV's allow it to outspeed uninvested base 50's such as Chansey and Registeel, but more speed EV's can be run to outspeed faster Donphans
-Life orb allows OHKO on registeel, and in general boosts damage output to acceptable levels, but lefties recovery can go a long way to his longevity
-Sucker punch can be utilized if so desired to beat frail special attackers (most notably missy who loves to predict your EQ/ Explosion) one on one and finish weakened opponents

Teammates and Counters:
-General sweepers walled by bulky waters, such as DD Feraligatr, are good teammates.
-Rain sweepers love opposing bulky waters gone--keeping even just a solo rain sweeper under your wings can mean gg


-Most special attackers beat it one on one, but have to be weary of switching into substitute or a super-effective attack.
-Uxie and Claydol laughs pretty hard at its attacks
-Rhyperior gets a special mention for not only generally outclassing Golem, but also utterly destroying it while Earthquake can only muster feeble damage thanks to Rhyperior's great bulk
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ShinyAzelf said:
Milotic and Venusaur both outspeed Golem, so you only get one hit on them, so unless they are weakened, you'll probably end up losing.
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Looks to me the plan is to Sub and then Explode on them.

Also, wouldn't Life Orb be useful if you don't need to explode? Boosts your attacks while I don't really see the need for Lefties
 
Yeah, Yam is right. This intents to Sub on the switch, explode while they attack.

Also, brick break is for getting rid of dual screens, purpose of more than half of the uxies/claydols around--but i guess i should get rid of that perhaps.

I'll also mention the option of life orb--but then it's not so good for players who doesn't really intend to blow up right away because they're afraid a ghost might switch in so they want to scout on the first time they switch in. Besides, Life Orb+ Sub is usually not a very good combo. However, i will edit in those changes.

Do you guys think that this is good enough set to go through QC...........
 
The only thing this guy has over Rhyperior is explosion. If the purpose of this set is to blow up on its counters then we might as well go running around with CB Electrode.

Anyway I think that sucker punch should be mentioned in AC to pick off weakened/faster pokemon.
 
Use 48 Spe evs rather than 44. It is important to outspeed 4 Spe Donphan. Also put Life orb as your main option to get the extra power boost, as with Life Orb you can 2HKO Bulky Milotic (meaning if it was weakened and sitting around half of its health you don't need to explode to finish it off) and can OHKO Registeel considering a layer of Spikes is up.
 
Aeron Ee1 said:
*cough*speedcreep*cough*
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Exactly. That's why although i run 8 extra speed EV's than the given set myself just to give a middle finger to fellow creepers, i posted just the 44 EV's given.

As for life orb, really wanted this to have much physical bulk as possible, as to counter normal types really hard. I thought of making it Impish even, and having just enough attack EV's to deal barely enough to venusaur. Not to mention, only against such normal types can golem dare subbing up. But OHKO against registeel sounds really good.

As for the comment on CB electrode: i guess if you don't want to explode, then i guess that's what rhyperiors are for, right? This set is very easy to use, despite the fact that with proper team support, subperior is undoubtably better. Not to mention, it gets you out of prediction 'skills' duties *cough* guessing *cough* (rhyperiors are also pretty good at killing already heavily damaged milotics with a simple CB set on the switch) Besides, i doubt that even with CB adamant and Jolly, electrode explosion can simply OHKO Milo--not to mention your opponent can easily switch out of that. With a golem with sub up, I think is a different issue as it can do other things, too.
 
Aeron Ee1 said:
*cough*speedcreep*cough*
Click to expand...

? Outspeeding Donphan is quite important as it can wreck Golem with Earthquake and being able to OHKO first with Explosion is worth sacrificing 4 HP Evs that won't change how many hits its takes to take it down whatsoever(Golem is so rare in UU I didn't even propose the idea to outspeed opposing ones>_>). As for using Life Orb It is not only getting OHKO on Registeel that matters, Golem is not the type of Pokemon to last long given the role that you proposed and the only Pokemon that 'Golem counters hard' are few such as Swellow and one or two more that are common in UU so I don't see the idea of trying to maximize its bulk. In this case, investing so heavily in its HP stat is acceptable since you dont have any other stat to invest.
 
Fine, people XD. I also like the damage output i'm seeing, so i'll put life orb as the first slash. Still I am leaving leftovers slashed in, unless it is of general consensus to deslash lefties. Also I edited in the speed EV's.

Should I start writing up this?

EDIT: following Supermarth's guideline on the 'speed creep' issue. people should really set a clear line on these speed creeps and outclassing and stuff-but then if life was that easy...
 
No, you still need the approval of QC members. Please contact or wait for the members listed here before writing this, (bottom of page).
 
SOMALIA said:
? Outspeeding Donphan is quite important as it can wreck Golem with Earthquake and being able to OHKO first with Explosion is worth sacrificing 4 HP Evs that won't change how many hits its takes to take it down whatsoever(Golem is so rare in UU I didn't even propose the idea to outspeed opposing ones>_>).
Click to expand...
That is the definition of Speed creep. We don't want to go "oh use 8 EVs to outspeed 4 EV Pokemon" because then that second Pokemon can just use 12 Speed EVs to outspeed the 8 EVs one. This brings about the question of where do we draw the line? Since things that beat 4 Spe Donphan by 1 point are an arbitrary line (4 Spe Donphan beats min Spe 50s, which is a natural number), just leave it as 44 Spe and make a mention in the Additional Comments that you can run more Spe for faster Donphan.
 
This looks good to me. You'll have to fix some of your explanations, as Golem really doesn't attract Venusaur (or at least it shouldn't, as Earthquake will deal more than 80% with LO); but as long as the final write-up is ok:

QC Approved 1/2
 
80% minimum o.O ...why did I never bother actually attacking Venusaur with an attack other than explosion TT. More than half of shoddybattlers and PO users were eager to switch Venusaur in and I never challenged the notion that it was a correct play =(

But then I was probably using lefties when I saw 60% ish damage.
 
Since your Rock-type attack is being used for power rather than simply as a coverage move, I would remove Rock Slide sicne the power difference is huge. Other than this, this looks good to go.

QC APPROVED 2/2
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You don't need the skeleton anymore, so remove that. Also, try to expand on teammates and counters in Additional Comments. Additionally, FGW core should be FWG core. Finally, try to combine the two paragraphs in Set Comments into one. Great job for your first time, though!
 
^Actually, leaving the skeleton in a spoiler in perfectly acceptable and somewhat useful for refrence purposes. TheLegendKiller's DD Crawdaunt set had it, so I don't see why it shouldn't be left there.

Just make sure to put it in a spoiler, Amarillo. Oh, and props for being a Poket Monsters Special fan :)
 
Thanks, guys. I'll get to work!

@Eon: PokeSupe FTW! =)

EDIT: 10 posts yeah! beginning of things to come! XD
 
Not a member of the offical GP Check team, so don't count this as an offical check, but I can still help you with the edits.

Additions in blue.
Removals in red.
Comments in navy blue.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/golem
[SET]
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(Pictures should go above the link)
[SET]
name: Substitute
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Explosion
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Sucker Punch
item: Life Orb/ Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With so many defensive faults, Golem can use Substitute to effectively gain an some extra life leverage. Since fast special attackers are generally physically frail, levitating special attackers any that switch into Golem on a predicted EQ expecting an easy OHKO will be put in an awkward position. Substitute also eases prediction while using him for Golem, who since it already has an excellent offensive STAB combination in QuakeEdge. (I'm not exactly sure about this sentence, but I'll leave it for now) This Golem fares very well against two common team prototypes types: FWG balance and stall. He can act as an excellent lure for THE the top current top metagame threat in UU, Milotic, along with other bulky waters. Substitute on the switch, then explode or hit hard with one of its STABs. (You should move this to the first AC paragraph, probably early on when you're discribing how Golem is used) With a Life Orb, 4/0 EV'd Venusaur takes more than 80% from a EQ Earthquake, and is a poor switch-in. Common stall team members, such as Registeel, Chansey, and Spiritomb, (add comma) struggle to dent him Golem while he it deals out powerful earthquakes attacks. As a result, this set can put much serious pressure on any stall team or FWG balance team.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The item choice will dictate how Golem plays. If running Life Orb, it hits much harder- - (Remove hyphen, leave a space) but with Substitute, Life Orb, AND and Explosion, Golem is forced to play suicidally as offensively as possible. Not that he has any other way of playing, but Explosion at low HP is a lot more predictable. (The sentence isn't very necesary) If Golem has some defensive burden on his shoulders lest the team get swept by Normal-types, Leftovers is an option. If you choose to running Leftovers, Substitute can be used more haphazardly, as Golem isn't getting his health drained left and right. they will increase its survivability. He now lasts significantly longer, and can even more reliably explode on a bulky water--but now Venusaur is a viable switch-in. This means that Golem can use Explosion more reliably against bulky waters, but conversely, it makes Venusaur a much more viable switch-in. In general, stick with Life Orb as the damage is dampened by quite a lot. (This makes it sound like using Leftovers is pointless) Anyways, you shouldn't rely too heavily on Golem defensively to begin with as he is meant to explode. You should not consider SubGolem as a defensive Pokemon, as it is designed to use Explosion as a fail-safe. If you focus on want staying power, Rhyperior will suit you better.</p>

<p>The given speed EV's allow it to outspeed Chansey and Registeel with uninvested speed no speed investment, but additional 4 additional speed EVs can be run as outspeeding 4 EV speed Donphans is quite crucial. Also, Sucker Punch can be used to hit frail special attackers and weakened opponents while synergising well with substitute.</p>
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Jesus, I barely made it through the second AC paragraph. This is a monster writeup with a lot of corrections to make. >_>
 
I'm not sure which is the most recent one, but the thread-starter post is the one that has been most recently updated, so I am going to go with that one.

[SET]
name: Substitute + 3 Attacks
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Explosion
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Sucker Punch
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Golem can use Substitute to gain some extra leverage and to ease prediction. Since fast special attackers are physically frail, those that switch into Golem on a predicted EQ will be put in an awkward position. This Golem fares very well against two common team types: Fire / Water / Grass Balance and stall. It can act as an excellent lure for the current top threat in UU: Milotic, as well as other bulky Water-types. With Life Orb, 4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur takes more than 80% from Earthquake, and as a result, is a poor switch-in. Common stall team members, such as Registeel, Chansey, and Spiritomb, will struggle to dent it while it deals powerful attacks. As a result, this set can put lots of pressure on any stall team or Fire / Water / Grass Balance team.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This Golem intends to use Substitute on the switch and Explode on bulky Water-types. The item choice will dictate how Golem plays. If running Life Orb, it hits much harder, but with Substitute, Life Orb, and Explosion, it is forced to play as offensively as possible. If Golem has some defensive burden on its shoulders, lest the team get swept by Normal-types, Leftovers is an option. Leftovers improves its longevity, so Substitute can be used more haphazardly. This means that while Golem can use Explosion more reliably against bulky Water-types, Venusaur becomes a viable switch-in. You should not consider Substitute Golem as a defensive Pokemon, as it is designed to use Explosion as a fail-safe. If you want staying power, Rhyperior will suit you better.</p>

<p>The given Speed EVs allow it to outspeed Chansey and Registeel with no speed investment, but 4 additional speed EVs can be run as outspeeding 4 Speed Donphan is quite crucial. Also, Sucker Punch can also be used to hit weakened opponents while synergising well with Substitute.</p>

<p>This Golem thrives on breaking tanks and walls. Hence, most of its teammates are sweepers who capitalize on its work. Normal-type sweepers such as Swellow love Registeel gone. Arcanine, Blaziken, Feraligatr, Azumarill, and all rain sweepers, can take advantage of absent bulky Water-types being removed. Ironically, Golem appreciates another Normal-type resistor, or priority users capable of checking Normal-types. After it blows up, its team is often left vulnerable to Ambipom and Swellow if it doesn't have a back-up. Omastar and Kabutops gets special mention for fitting both criterions, despite intensifying the existing the Grass-type weakness. </p>

<p>Predicting Explosion, or not letting Golem set up its Substitute is perhaps the easiest way to counter it. Uxie and Claydol can take its hits and set up on it, despite the fact that Uxie cannot break Golem's Substitute unless it runs Psychic. Rhyperior gets a special mention for outclassing it in general, as well as being one of the few Normal-type resistors it cannot OHKO with Life Orb.</p>
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Blue means a change/addition
Red and crossed out means remove.

I can see a few traces of being new, but that's fine - you'll get better with practice. Welcome to Smogon!

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Can you make another Set Comments paragraph describing what every move on the moveset does? Well, I guess Substitute is pretty much overdone, but the others need some weight. Sucker Punch can probably be moved to this new paragraph. Thanks!

edit: Take a look at the other analyzes if you want to know what I'm talking about. Say, Exeggutor (http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/exeggutor). It describes the moves afterward. The first paragraph should be dedicated in just describing the role of the Pokemon if you want to do it that way.
 
Alright, I'll get to work on that. Urghhh... should I try to cut down on some explanations on substitute and stuff? (I realize that this is quite long. Especially the Counters & Teammates section i was told I should expand a little more, but not anymore I guess?)

EDIT: OK, I put those counter-counters on there as well. =P Merry Christmas!
 
I have no problem with a set being 6 paragraphs long as long as all of the information is relevant. So, don't worry on the length. When it gets to 10 paragraphs in length, then we'll talk concision.

Do, however, remove the paragraph about countering the set. You can have it though if, when you mention something that counters Golem, mention teammates Golem can have to counter-measure those counters... Confusing enough for you?
 
GP Check: 2/2
additions/changes in blue
removals in red
comments in navy

[SET]
name: Substitute + 3 Attacks
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Explosion
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Sucker Punch
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Golem can use Substitute to With Substitute, Golem can gain some extra leverage and ease prediction. Since fast special attackers are physically frail, those that attempt to switch into Golem on a predicted EQ (Be a little more specific. I'm not switching Alakazam on a Earthquake.) in on an immunity or resistance will be put into an awkward position. This Golem can also act as an excellent lure for the current top threat all bulky Water-types in UU, (comma) most notably Milotic, as well as other bulky Water-types. With Substitute, When under a Substitute, it can safely Explode on bulky Water-types without worrying about its subpar speed being outspeeded.</p>

<p>Explosion is required to net a clean OHKO on the bulky Water-types it that Golem will lure, while Earthquake and Stone Edge provide strong STABs with good coverage. To illustrate Golem's power, Life Orb Earthquake will OHKO standard Registeel and deal 80% minimum to 4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur, while Stone Edge will 3HKO defensive Uxie and OHKO offensive Rotom. If so desired Alternatively, Stone Edge can be dropped for Sucker Punch, which bypasses its pathetic Speed and synergizes well has good synergy with Substitute.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The item choice will dictates how Golem plays. On one hand, using a Life Orb allows Golem to hit much harder, but since Life Orb, in tandem with Substitute, will be rapidly draining Golem's HP, it is forced to played as offensively as possible. If running Life Orb, it hits much harder, but with Substitute, Life Orb, and Explosion, it is forced to play as offensively as possible. On the other hand, Leftovers keeps Golem healthy and recovers HP lost from Substitute. If Golem has some defensive burden on its shoulders, lest the team get swept by Normal-types, Leftovers is an option. Leftovers improves its longevity, so Substitute can be used more haphazardly. This means that while Golem can use Explosion more reliably against bulky Water-types, Venusaur becomes a viable switch-in. (Just how? It is still 2HKOed by Earthquake/Stone Edge and OHKOed by Explosion, just like the bulky Waters.) You should not consider Substitute Golem as a defensive Pokemon, as it is designed to use Explosion as a fail-safe. (I don't really like this line. I think we already know this is an offensive set... more specifically a "lure" or wallbreaker.) If you want staying power, Rhyperior will suit you better. (This is Golem. Don't advertise to Rhyperior in the middle of an analysis.) The given Speed EVs allow it Golem to outspeed Chansey and Registeel with no Speed investment, but 4 additional EVs can be run used as outspeeding 4 Speed Donphan is quite crucial. Attack is maxed so that Golem can dish out as much damage as possible, while the remaining EVs are allocated to HP for additional bulk.</p>

<p>This Golem thrives on breaking tanks and walls. Hence, most of its you should consider having teammates are sweepers who that capitalize on its work. Normal-type sweepers such as Swellow love Registeel gone. Arcanine, Blaziken, Feraligatr, Azumarill, and all rain sweepers, (remove comma) can take advantage of bulky Water-types being removed. Ironically, Golem appreciates another Normal-type resistor, (remove comma) or a priority user capable of checking Normal-types. Otherwise, its your team can be left vulnerable to Ambipom and Swellow after Golem uses Explosion. Omastar (It doesn't have a priority move.) Spiritomb and Kabutops are both ideal candidates for checking Normal-types due to their immunity or resistance to Normal-type attacks, respectively, and access to priority attacks get special mention criteria, for fitting both despite intensifying the existing the Grass-type weakness.</p>

<p>Predicting Explosion, (remove comma) or not letting Golem set up its and preventing Golem from setting up Substitute is are perhaps the easiest ways to counter it. Uxie and Claydol can take its hits and set up on it or break its Substitutes, despite the fact that Uxie cannot break Golem's Substitute unless it runs Psychic (Most do.). Ghost-types, like Spiritomb and Rotom, are likely to switch in on a predicted Explosion, which could essentially waste Golem's life. Therefore, (comma) Pursuit users are hence good teammates; they can efficiently remove Ghost-types and scare the bulky Psychic-types. However, Claydol and Uxie are bulky enough to survive STAB Pursuits, especially behind Reflect. Since they are often seen in the lead slot, fast Sleep Powder leads and Taunt leads can effectively shut them down.</p>

The grammar's good but there are some odd phrasing of the sentences. Also had some statements I did not agree with. If you can point out what they're really suppose to mean, then you can keep them.

edit: I'm afraid I'll forget to stamp.
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