Psychic Arceus (Analysis, GP 2/2)

Status: Written, ready for GP checks

Credits: Overview is written by alex 67

QC - 2/2, GP - 0/2



http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/493.shtml

[Overview]

<p>In this guise the Creator embraces the power of mystical telekinesis by attaching a Mind Plate to His Self. While His telekinetic Judgement doesn’t affect the magical creatures of nightmares and cannot sufficiently hurt His fellow telekinetics, He can focus, and send a powerful blast of fist to crush the nightmares and remain calm against His fellows, and eventually shock them with a powerful wave of psycho energy or a dark Payback for getting in His way. Despite these feats, the Creator has stiff competition from His fellows; The Ancient One and The Guardian Of The Seas: Mewtwo and Lugia, and must exploit being a hybrid of the two. He can beat them both, however, with the appropriate attack. Overall, the telekinetic Creator has improved over the years as He has completely broken free from all restrictions and has established His Self among the Titans.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While it appears that Mewtwo outclasses Psychic Arceus as a Calm Minder with its higher Special Attack, Speed, and access to Psystrike, Psychic Arceus has one very distinct advantage over Mewtwo: bulk. With fantastic 120 / 120 / 120 defenses, Psychic Arceus is not anywhere near as easily revenge-killed as Mewtwo. Psyshock allows it differentiate from other Calm Mind Arceus, dealing heavy damage to Blissey, Chansey, Kyogre, and Ho-Oh by hitting their weaker Defense. It also allows Psychic Arceus to win Calm Mind wars against anything that is not a Dark-type, as Psyshock attacks the opponent's Defense instead of their Special Defense, ignoring any accumulated Calm Mind boosts. Focus Blast provides excellent coverage alongside Psyshock, hitting Steel-types and Tyranitar for super effective damage. Recover is used to keep Arceus alive longer, as well as letting it stack up more Calm Minds.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Psychic Arceus has a huge special movepool; Ice Beam, Dark Pulse or Thunder can be used to hit Lugia, who otherwise walls Arceus. Dark Pulse has the added advantage of hitting Wobbuffet for super effective damage, as well as its 20% flinch rate, which could potentially bail Arceus out of a tight spot. Fire Blast can be used to hit Steel-types such as Scizor and Forretress harder. However, replacing Recover is not recommended at all, as Psychic Arceus's niche over Mewtwo is its superior bulk. Substitute can be used in place of Recover to avoid status, but since Psyshock hits Blissey and Chansey really hard anyway, it is usually redundant.</p>

<p>The EV spread used is just a simple max Special Attack, max Speed spread. An alternate spread of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe can be used if you are more focused on Arceus building up Calm Minds instead of sweeping right off the bat. A Modest nature is preferred, as it gives Arceus maximum firepower while having enough Speed to outspeed Jolly Garchomp and below. Timid can be used to speed-tie with other Arceus formes, as well as outspeeding Thundurus, Tornadus, and Terrakion.</p>

<p>Darkrai, Lugia, Ghost, Bug, and Dark Arceus can cause problems for Psychic Arceus. Darkrai outspeeds Arceus, can put it to sleep with Dark Void, and set up using Nasty Plot. Bug and Dark Arceus can set up Calm Mind alongside Psychic Arceus, then strike it down with their super effective Judgements, although Dark Arceus needs to watch out for Focus Blast. Ghost Arceus can set up Calm Mind or Swords Dance alongside Psychic Arceus and destroy it with Judgement, Shadow Claw, or Shadow Force. However, the aforementioned Arceus formes, with the exception of Dark Arceus, should not try to defeat Psychic Arceus in a Calm Mind war, but instead try to KO it with a super effective Judgement as soon as possible. This is due to Psyshock bypassing their Special Defense. Lugia can simply wall Psychic Arceus, set up Reflect to decrease the damage of Psyshock, then use Toxic to stall it. Wobbuffet resists both Psyshock and Focus Blast and can kill it with Mirror Coat, or Encore a harmless move to set up a more dangerous Pokemon. Kyogre is an excellent teammate to Psychic Arceus, especially the Calm Mind RestTalk variant. It can reliably check Darkrai and the aforementioned Calm Mind Arceus variants. Ho-oh is also an excellent check to other Calm Mind Arceus formes with its massive Special Defense and powerful physical STAB attacks. Defensively, Skarmory is one of the best counters to Swords Dance Ghost Arceus available, while offensively, a Darkrai of your own can outspeed it, put it to sleep and set up using Nasty Plot, provided that it avoids Brick Break.</p>

[SET]
name: Countering Utility
move 1: Payback
move 2: ExtremeSpeed / Zen Headbutt
move 3: Zen Headbutt / Will-O-Wisp / Earthquake
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Psychic Arceus is a very solid check to Psystrike Mewtwo in the rain. With its fantastic bulk and pure Psychic typing, Arceus resists both Psyshock and Aura Sphere while remaining neutral to Fire Blast and Ice Beam. Psychic Arceus can switch in on Mewtwo as it uses Calm Mind, taking very little damage from anything while KOing with a combination of Payback and ExtremeSpeed. In addition to checking Mewtwo and other Psychic types, Arceus can be a fantastic counter to Fighting-types such as Fighting Arceus, Terrakion, and Lucario, as well as Poison Arceus.</p>

<p>Payback is Arceus's main move, as it puts Mewtwo into KO range of ExtremeSpeed. The third slot is variable. Zen Headbutt gives Arceus the ability to KO Fighting-types. Will-O-Wisp is another option, allowing it to cripple Scizor and Tyranitar, who would cause a lot of problems otherwise, while still being able to cripple physical Fighting-types. Note that it will turn into setup fodder for Fighting Arceus that use Calm Mind. Earthquake is also an option, as most physical Fighting-types used in the Uber tier are weak to Ground, allowing Arceus to hit them, as well as Tyranitar for decent damage. Zen Headbutt can be used over ExtremeSpeed if you can make sure that the rain is up at all times, and this can allow Arceus to free up a slot for Will-O-Wisp or Earthquake. Recover is used in the last slot to maintain Arceus's longevity.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given EVs allow Arceus to survive a sun-boosted Fire Blast from Psystrike Mewtwo after it has used Calm Mind once if the need arises, while allowing Arceus to 2HKO in return with Payback and ExtremeSpeed. A more defensive spread of 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD with a Careful nature can be used to take two Choice Scarf Kyogre's Surfs, two Choice Scarf Zekrom's Bolt Strikes and other powerful attacks more easily. However, with that spread, Arceus fails to 2HKO Mewtwo with Payback and ExtremeSpeed, and is in return 2HKOed by sun boosted Fire Blast after a Calm Mind. As Psychic Arceus's main job is to counter Mewtwo, this spread is not the most desirable. As for other move options, Flamethrower or Fire Blast can used to roast Forretress and Scizor to ash.</p>

<p>Scizor and Tyranitar can be huge problems to Psychic Arceus if it lacks Will-O-Wisp. Both can do huge amounts of damage to Arceus with their STAB moves if it stays in, or hurt it severely with Pursuit if it switches out. Scizor can also set up Swords Dance in Arceus's face. Darkrai can easily switch into Arceus, put it to sleep with Dark Void, and set up using Nasty Plot. Kyogre is an excellent partner for this reason, as it can drown Scizor, Tyranitar, and Darkrai with rain-boosted Water-type attacks, while the rain it summons also helps Arceus counter Mewtwo more efficiently. Dark and Bug Arceus can also set up quite easily on Psychic Arceus. Choice Scarf Terrakion can revenge-kill both Dark and Bug Arceus while resisting their STABs. Ho-Oh is also a fantastic counter to Calm Mind Arceus variants.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Psychic Arceus can run a Swords Dance set consisting of Swords Dance, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, and Recover, but it is not very good due to its poor Psychic STAB. Arceus also has plenty of other special attacks that it can use. Surf can be used to hit Tyranitar reasonably hard while remaining neutral against Steel-types. Grass Knot can be used to hit all weather inducers bar Abomasnow and Ninetales for super effective damage. Judgement is Arceus's strongest STAB attack, but Psyshock is usually better due to the ability to bypass Blissey's and Chansey's Special Defense. Arceus also has great support moves such as Cosmic Power and Refresh, but a mono-attacking set is better off run by Arceus formes with better STABs.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Dark Arceus is possibly the best counter to Psychic Arceus due to its immunity to Psychic-type moves. It will, however, need to watch out for Focus Blast. Bug and Ghost Arceus can Calm Mind alongside Psychic Arceus and strike it down with their super effective Judgement, although they should not drag out the Calm Mind war, as Psyshock will hurt. Lugia utterly walls Psychic Arceus, as it can set up Reflect and easily use Whirlwind to pseudo-haze Psychic Arceus, or stall it out with Toxic. Darkrai can outspeed Psychic Arceus and put it to sleep with Dark Void, then set up with Nasty Plot. Wobbuffet is a huge thorn in Psychic Arceus's side, as it resists both Psyshock and Focus Blast while using Mirror Coat to KO Psychic Arceus easily. The countering utility set is not very threatening, and anything physically defensive can take it on without much trouble. If Arceus lacks Will-O-Wisp, Scizor and Tyranitar in particular cause it problems, as they can heavily damage Arceus with their STAB attack of choice, or use Pursuit to heavily damage Arceus should it switch out.</p>

You know, the bulky CM psycho shock isn't outclassed either so that also deserves a set.

Skeleton is done

Psychic Arceus lacks a Stealth Rock and electric weakness which can be something. Psychic Arceus can beat Zekrom with Will-o-wisp and Recover, while Lugia can potentially stall out Zekrom with Roost and Reflect, it isn't something Lugia wants to do usually.

Maybe Max HP as an alternative spread for the utility counter since it maximizes bulk? Be careful not to use Psyhic Arceus as a worse Cresselia though who flies over Spikes, more bulk and leftovers recovery.

I'd probably max Speed on the CM set so you can outspeed Garchomp and Palkia unless the HP does anything specific. Also, Recover MUST ALWAYS be used in the 4th slot of the Calm Minder or else you may as well just use Mewtwo.

Not gonna approve this yet because its Psychic Arceus (:B), but we'll see how testing goes.

EDIT- Okay so I tested the CM Psycho Shock set and it is actually very good. Psycho Shock is great against Bliss, Ho-Oh, and other CMers, and the bulk is very, very nice to have over Mewtwo. I was actually quite impressed.

I'll test the other set tomorrow.

I am testing this for Fireburn since he made me the judge for Psychic Arceus ;)

For me, the supporting Psychic Arceus should use a different ev spread.
The set I am currently using and it fits well in some teams:
Arceus-Psych (Arceus-Psychic) @ Mind Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Recover
- Payback
- Flamethrower
- Zen Headbutt

The spread survives a +1 Fire Blast from Mewtwo in the sun even after 2 Stealth Rock damages. The defense evs prevents Arceus from being 2HKO by Zekrom's scarf Lightning Strike most of the time. The moves are standard, but instead of Will-O-Wisp, Arceus can kill the spikers outrigt, like Forretresss, Lugia can't use the fire attack at all making it an advantage. It survives 2 Scarf Surf from Kyogre as well.

Having no Attack EVs doesn't allow Arceus to do much damage to Mewtwo in return, so stuff like Fire Blast in neutral weather has a good chance of 2HKOing after SR while you can't 2HKO in return since Payback isn't doing enough for Extremespeed to finish it off. I'll wait for you to finish testing. Maybe have some Attack EVs, but have heavy SpD investment?? Maybe something like 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD with an Adamant nature, this way you can still take a +1 Fire Blast in the sun after Stealth Rock damage while 2HKOing with Payback and Extremespeed after Stealth Rock. Not getting 2HKOed by Scarf Lightning Strike and stuff like that aren't exactly important since you aren't going to do much back to Zekrom anyway (You'll pretty much just spam Recover, waiting for a crit). A Brave nature can be used if you want Flamethrower, I guess.

shrang said:

Having no Attack EVs doesn't allow Arceus to do much damage to Mewtwo in return, so stuff like Fire Blast in neutral weather has a good chance of 2HKOing after SR while you can't 2HKO in return since Payback isn't doing enough for Extremespeed to finish it off. I'll wait for you to finish testing. Maybe have some Attack EVs, but have heavy SpD investment?? Maybe something like 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD with an Adamant nature, this way you can still take a +1 Fire Blast in the sun after Stealth Rock damage while 2HKOing with Payback and Extremespeed after Stealth Rock. Not getting 2HKOed by Scarf Lightning Strike and stuff like that aren't exactly important since you aren't going to do much back to Zekrom anyway (You'll pretty much just spam Recover, waiting for a crit). A Brave nature can be used if you want Flamethrower, I guess.

Click to expand...

It doesn't OHKO Mewtwo even with those attack evs. If you want to hurt Mewtwo, I don't know since max Attack Arceus isn't OHKOing Mewtwo with Payback either. If you use both Extremespeed and Payback, you lose 2 slots and the last one is going to be Recover. Having Extremespeed for a wall is bad but you need it to stop Mewtwo. Actually not 2HKOed by Zekrom can be a lot since if Zekrom is scarfed, Arceus can stall out the 8PP or wait for a miss which is more likely than a Critical hit. Flamethrower sets is apart from Lugia or Cresselia so that definitely should be mentioned.

Arceus can't outspeed Mewtwo anyway which is it's main role, so it's better to maximize bulk and power since you said the power is important. Zen Headbutt allows it to counter Fighting Arceus which is done better with larger bulk. I guess your spread can work but it will miss some bulk. Try not to go physically defensive because it makes you a worse Cresselia or Lugia.

Psychic Arceus can wall Terakion like a champ and OHKO it outright. Lugia doesn't enjoy facing Terakion usually.

Well, it wasn't supposed to OHKO Mewtwo, it was supposed to 2HKO with Payback and Extremespeed.

yeah you need those 2 moves to kill Mewtwo but your bulkier spread definitely deserves to be the main option.

alright, will do

Uhm it survives 2 Surfs not Water Spout from Scarf Kyogre. Maybe mention Flamethrower somewhere? since Lugia can't do that.

I think the advantage of not having Rock weakness should be mentioned not Ice alone. Since Psychic Arceus can counter all Terakion sets and doesn't fear Rock Polish Groudon's Stone Edge. Timid Lugia dies to Stone Edge after Stealth Rock.

lol, I thought Kyogre = Water Spout but whatever.

Flamethrower and Fire Blast have been mentioned, and I've also stuck not weak to Rock in there (and by extension Stealth Rock)

For the CM set, you should just max out Speed and slash in a Timid nature. Max Speed Modest lets Arceus outrun Garchomp. while Timid lets you tie with other Arceus and outspeed Terakion + Genies.

Also, deslash Thunder on the CM set. You need to be using Recover to take advantage of that bulk or else you might as well run Mewtwo.

Looks good other than that.

QC APPROVED (1/2)

Thanks Fireburn, changes made.

Yes Psychic Arceus can work well providing you use it correctly. Add Lugia as a counter to Psychic Arceus. It fears nothing at all and can easily Toxic Arceus and end it's life slowly. You mentioned bulky pokemon can counter it but Lugia needs to be mentioned more since it laughs at everything Arceus runs even from the Calm Mind set. An alternate spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe needs to be mentioned for the Calm Mind set because Arceus can utilize it's bulk to squander more attacks while setting up. Since Fireburn showed me Psychic Arceus works well when I battled with him...



QC APPROVED 2/2

Yay, thanks trickroom.

Okay, analysis is written. Can someone write an Overview for me? I really cbf doing a fancy one for Arceus.

I think you mean Psycho Break (or Psystrike if that's the English name) when you're referring to Mewtwo. Nice write-up; to think Psychic Arceus was considered to be completely useless at the beginning of Generation 5 :)

Just need some GP checks. No biggie.

shrang, I will whip up an overview for you AFTER you implement my nitpicks!

Okay this is the big one. I think that the Countering Utility set needs to actually be the last set in the analysis, or maybe even in other options for this reason: It suffers stiff competition as a Mewtwo check from an anti Mewtwo Dark Arceus and to a lesser extent, an anti Mewtwo Ghost Arceus.

As you noted, Psychic Arceus's big claim to fame is to wall Mewtwo in the rain. However, even though you survive a +1 LO Fire Blast, it still does a massive 75% - 88.3% in the sun! Part of this is because you are forced to invest in Atk to beat Mewtwo with Payback + ExtremeSpeed. After testing it a couple of weeks ago, I found that Dark Arceus solved this problem thanks to its STAB payback OHKOing Mewtwo without any attack investment after Stealth Rock damage (93% min). I was able to run trickroom's Psychic Arceus spread of 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Sdef with Careful, and thus I took 63.3% - 74.5% from a +1 LO Aura Sphere (remember, that does the same amount of damage a sunny Fire Blast would do!). Another big advantage over Psychic Arceus was that I now had an extra moveslot, which was useful in case I wanted Roar for phazing, Magic Coat, Stealth Rock, or whatever filler move my team needed. Another nice thing about Dark Arceus was that Payback 2HKOs even max HP Ghost Arceus, so Ghost Arceus without Will-O-Wisp were unable to set up on me unlike Psychic Arceus. Finally, the extra bulk was quite handy!

As for Ghost Arceus, I ran 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD Impish with Shadow Claw and ExtremeSpeed, which does just enough to KO Mewtwo after Stealth Rock and Life Orb recoil. While it still takes a lot from sunny Fire Blasts and takes 56.8% - 66.9% from +1 Psystrike, it is able to posses greater bulk while still beating Mewtwo! Of course, Shadow Claw + ExtremeSpeed being your attacking moves on a defensive Ghost Arceus isnt too hot, but its still workable most of the time!

TL;DR: You need to move the utility counter to the last slot and really focus on its main advantages over Dark and Ghost Arceus. The main ones being able to defeat Mewtwo while maintaining good health in the rain, the Fighting resist (over Dark Arceus), and the ability to defeat Fighting Arceus and Posion Arceus (if you run Zen Headbutt).

As for CM Psychic, heres a list of nitpicks.

-I think some damage calcs for both spreads would be pretty nice to have, and Timid should be slashed in first just because speed tying with other Arceus is always nice!

-Dark Pulse is also better than Shadow Ball imo due to flinch chance.

-Althought Wobbuffet is uncommon atm, I still think you should mention that it'll be a real pain in the butt if you lack Dark Pulse or a sunny Fire Blast because it will either encore and kill you, or encore and bring in something scary like a Rayquaza.

-One of the big selling points of this Arceus as a CMer over other Arceus is that you can win in a lot of CM wars thanks to Psyshock, so mention that. Oh yeah change all mentions of Psycho Shock to Psyshock too.

-Mention that if you opt for any move over Focus Blast or Fire Blast, Steel Arceus will then become a huge issue because it can simply Roar you away. Similar deal with Heatran only it doesnt care about Fire Blast, but can be hit by Thunder. Mention good ways to beat these Pokemon and Lugia as well!

-Fire Blast should NEVER replace Recover, Recover is a really important selling point of using this over Mewtwo since unlike Mewtwo, Arceus's great bulk + Recover allows it to stick around!

Changes have been noted. I'll make these changes as soon as I finish writing up Latias.

I know Theorymon is going to write an Overview also but I wrote one to hopefully give some ideas about what to say because it's pretty hard to come up with good things to say about Psychic Arceus. Feel free to hack and slash it because I'm just trying to inspire ideas for the overview. So here it is.

Okay, I have (finally) implemented Theorymon's changes (I think). Theorymon, feel free to write up an overview, I kind of like alex 67's one at the moment, so if you write up your, I'll see which one is better =D

Thanks Shrang:). Just a minor nitpick though in the second line of the countering utility set change it to Psystrike instead of Shock.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Psychic Arceus' main niche in the Uber metagame is being a very solid check to Psybreak Mewtwo in the rain. With its fantastic bulk and pure Psychic-typing, Arceus resists both Psyshock and Aura Sphere while

Click to expand...

Edit: Dammit thank you Ficition. Psycho Break sounds so much cooler too.