ORAS OU 1st Rate My Team - Double Genie Core (Peaked 1400+)

[TPP]

This is my 1st Rate My Team. This team has proven to be my best one (without Mega Metagross) and has won 15 in a row. I would like to make it even better so that I can the very best like no one ever was ;)

Team Building Process/In-Depth Analysis

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower​

I heard from a friend that the double genie core was winning games for him and I tried it and its fantastic. Having Thundurus is really handy because he out speeds practically anything (not including Talonflame or Raikou) that isn't scarfed. Its a quick revenge killer and really makes it hard to switch into. A mixed Thundurus is able to hit Ferrothorn and Chansey while maintaining its high special attack stat. Defiant is used to increase his attack to even higher levels and is really helpful against Intimidate Users. This is a pretty standard mixed set and EV's allow Thundurus to nearly 1HKO Latios.

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Rock Polish
- HP Ice
- Sludge Wave

Landorus is able to become a special sweeper with its ability and good movepool. Its able to take out Heatran, and annoying fairy types including Azumarill and Clefable. Rock Polish is easy to use on opposing Lando-T and turns Lando into the monster that people think should go to Ubers. HP Ice to kill Garchomp, Lando, and Gliscor. Together, he and Thundurus can break almost anything.

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Substitute

Keldeo plain murders things with its high special attack. The Calm Mind + Sub set allows Keldeo to set up and be able to take a hit that would normally kill it. This is extremely helpful against threats like Talonflame that can be killed after it breaks Keldeo's sub. So being able to get a guaranteed hit and avoid a revenge kill makes this set an optimal choice for the team.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Analytic
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect Type
- Psyshock
- Scald

Previously Latias, Starmie lets me keep my Spikes when I Rapid Spin to help Charizard come in safely. Normally I would run a more offensive one, but reflect type will help a lot more against threats like Bisharp, and Analytic is run to really hit hard on when my opponent switches out. The only reason I don't have Ice Beam is because I already have 2 Pokemon that have HP Ice. Hydro Pump hits extremely hard, but since I'm running Reflect Type, Scald will help more as it can burn threats.

Klefki (M) @ Red Card
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Bold Nature
- Play Rough Dazzling Gleam
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise

Previously Skarmory, Klefki is an extremely good hazard user because of prankster. Thunder wave also lets him cripple things right off the bat, and Magnet Rise gets rid of the ground weakness, so Lando can't touch Klefki, and Charizard's ground weakness is gone. Running spikes allows the other members of team to have an easier time 1HKO most threats. Play rough is a handy fairy move that hits Mega Sableye and fighting types like Keldeo for decent damage. Red Card is extremely useful because it can get rid of threats that have set up, such as Belly Drum Azumarill. I can switch Klefki in and Azumarill will lose the +6 attack. Magnezone is no longer a threat for Klefki as well because of Red Card. Red Card also allows Klefki to paralyze something, switch the paralyzed opponent out, and allow Klefki to set up spikes or paralyze the new pokemon.

Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw

Finally we have the physical sweeper of this team. Immunity to burns and being able to set up on Volcarona and Heatran turns him into a sweeping machine. Earthquake is able to 1HKO Heatran and Electric types such as the now popular Raikou. Fire Punch is used to avoid recoil damage, and because I don't have roost, recoil damage would be permanent. Jolly is run to outspeed other Charizards, Gardevoirs, and allow Charizard to outspeed most threats at +1 such as Mega Manectric and scarfed Lando-T.

Threat List

Talonflame (Flare Blitz + Brave Bird)

They outspeed my team and their electric and ice coverage sweeps my team once Charizard X is defeated

Importable

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Superpower
- Knock Off

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Polish
- Sludge Wave

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Substitute

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Analytic
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect Type
- Psyshock
- Scald

Klefki (M) @ Red Card
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise

Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake

​

 

[Toon Linked]

nice team, personally I would replace Protect with Toxic just to eventually kill things like Zapdos

 

[TPP]

Here is the proof, I used to be 30-24 and then started using this team

 

[AD impish john]

Nice Team I'm Going to try it. TalonFlame is your Number One weakness But Mega Altaria can be threating

 

[astroboy]

Few things!

Cleric Sylveon isn't really optimal, as it's pretty outclassed by Clefable.

Here's a clef set closest to your sylveon:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell

While having less special bulk, this set stops set up sweepers that arent talon or gyara in their tracks. it has better mixed bulk to help take on threats like mega gallade and thundurus at the same time, and is just a way better glue and a stop for special mega altarias (while skarm can handle physical ones)

Also, what are you running Hp Grass for? Gastrodon? I'd find that scald is a way better option, as it allows you to deal damage while potentially burning your checks, making it way easier for a teammate to handle them.

Lastly, I disagree with your thundurus set. Generally, when using double genie, one of them is used for setting up while the other is for wallbreaking. Here are some sample sets taken from the ORAS Good Cores thread

Sets

Wallbreaker Thundurus-I
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Flying]

Thundurus-I Nasty Plot
Thundurus @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast / Thunder Wave / Substitute

Wallbreaker Landorus-I
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

Landorus-I Calm Mind
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

Hope this helps! Good luck, and welcome to smogon!

 

[TPP]

Nice Team I'm Going to try it. TalonFlame is your Number One weakness But Mega Altaria can be threating

Hope you do well and yeah, Mega Altaria can be threatening, but Skarmory can take care of it as long as Altaria doesn't have fire blast

 

[TPP]

Few things!

Cleric Sylveon isn't really optimal, as it's pretty outclassed by Clefable.

Here's a clef set closest to your sylveon:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell

While having less special bulk, this set stops set up sweepers that arent talon or gyara in their tracks. it has better mixed bulk to help take on threats like mega gallade and thundurus at the same time, and is just a way better glue and a stop for special mega altarias (while skarm can handle physical ones)

Also, what are you running Hp Grass for? Gastrodon? I'd find that scald is a way better option, as it allows you to deal damage while potentially burning your checks, making it way easier for a teammate to handle them.

Lastly, I disagree with your thundurus set. Generally, when using double genie, one of them is used for setting up while the other is for wallbreaking. Here are some sample sets taken from the ORAS Good Cores thread

Sets

Wallbreaker Thundurus-I
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Flying]

Thundurus-I Nasty Plot
Thundurus @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast / Thunder Wave / Substitute

Wallbreaker Landorus-I
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

Landorus-I Calm Mind
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

Hope this helps! Good luck, and welcome to smogon!

Thanks, Sylveon is used because its has really good special bulk. Clefable probably works better, but Sylveon takes hits special hits better, but Clefable takes better physical hits and stops sweeping. It'll be a hard choice, but I'll try it. For Thundurus I probably should try a mixed one, Superpower would come in real handy.

 

[azuma]

your team looks cool but change your thundurus set to this:

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
- Knock Off

works way beter.

imo choice scarf keldeo is a massive waste of its potential but thats your choice

 

[TPP]

your team looks cool but change your thundurus set to this:

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
- Knock Off

works way beter.

imo choice scarf keldeo is a massive waste of its potential but thats your choice

Thanks for the Thunderus set, and I like having scarf keldeo because it outspeeds everything that isn't scarfed like Latios and even some pokes after 1 dragon dance such as Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados

 

[astroboy]

Thanks for the Thunderus set, and I like having scarf keldeo because it outspeeds everything that isn't scarfed like Latios and even some pokes after 1 dragon dance such as Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados

Actually, you still don't outspeed standard mega charixard at +1, because it's usually Jolly with 220 speed. With your team, I might suggest running this set

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

With this set, you can destroy stall while still being able to hurt things on offense. This also means that when behind a sub, you can't be revenged by talonflame, who's a big problem for your team. Hope this helps!

 

[TPP]

Actually, you still don't outspeed standard mega charixard at +1, because it's usually Jolly with 220 speed. With your team, I might suggest running this set

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

With this set, you can destroy stall while still being able to hurt things on offense. This also means that when behind a sub, you can't be revenged by talonflame, who's a big problem for your team. Hope this helps!

I changed it to timid, and the main reason for using scarf is to outspeed pokes with 110+ speed that Thundurus can't handle. I do enjoy the calm mind and sub set, but it'll be hard to decide which one to use. The calm mind set can sweep, but choice scarf can revenge kill...

 

[Physical Alakazam]

Use this spread on Thundy:

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
- Knock Off

 

[TPP]

Use this spread on Thundy:

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
- Knock Off

Why 64 instead of 76?

 

[AD impish john]

I lost alot on OU like int 1100 and this team is perfect at that range no expect these pokemon.

 

[Celticpride]

Hi there, I wrote the Double Genie post in the good cores thread so maybe I can elaborate on that a little bit. You want to run 76 Attack EVs to clinch the OHKO on Latios after Rocks, the most common Thundurus answer in my experience. Also, I didn't list it because the post was getting unreasonably long and bloated for a good cores post, but Rock Polish Lando-I + Mixed Thundurus-I is a perfectly reasonable core, and that move would allow you to go from Scarf Keldeo -> CM Keldeo. The whole balance when using the three together (and you should because Keldeo checks Weavile and that's huge, but I'll get to that) is to maintain some reasonable balance between immediate attacker (aka no set-up), faster cleaner and set-up breaker. You can run any combination of the three really, and that's the real beauty of it: as long as you don't overplay your hand early you keep them guessing. From your current team make-up wallbreaker Thundurs-I, CM Keldeo and RP Landorus-I seems like a solid mix.

As far as specific moves on the sets below, Psychic + Sludge Wave allow Landorus to beat Mega Venu and Clefable respectively (both big checks to Thundy). On Thundurus, HP Ice beats Gliscor and the combo of Knock Off and Superpower beats Chansey (who otherwise handles Landorus well). There's different ways to go about it as both have really deep movepools, but that combination does a great job of allowing them to beat one the others checks.

Going back to Keldeo, having workable checks for the two biggest Ice Shard users in the tier should be a priority. Keldeo checks Weavile pretty well, but Mamo is less accounted for. Your team is also lacking in any form of hazard, and there's a quick fix for that. Going from Skarm to Magnet Rise Klefki allows you to hard check Mamoswine reasonably, as well as giving you Spikes support. I would also go from Sylveon to Latias. The reason for this is simple, it replaces the Defog support lost when I mentioned removing Skarm. Healing Wish can also give one of your big guns another shot at sweeping when they are worn down. The bigger issue with those two, they stop any momentum you have gained. Double Genie offense thrives off of earning momentum and not letting the other team breathe. Every time you switch to Skarm or Sylveon, you lose virtually all the momentum you have gained and may even give some back the other way. Klefki and Latias give up less free turns than the two you have now, and you get more of a pure HO offense look instead of the more polarized balanced look you have now (ie extreme offense meets extreme defense). That's much more of a subjective thing, but I feel it would run more smoothly if everything synced up better.

That's all I've got, nice looking squad there.

Sets

Some posted the Thundy set above, but I'm reposting it because Wyunat

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power Ice

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 8 Def / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Sludge Wave

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword

-------

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Healing Wish

Klefki @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough

 

[TPP]

Hi there, I wrote the Double Genie post in the good cores thread so maybe I can elaborate on that a little bit. You want to run 76 Attack EVs to clinch the OHKO on Latios after Rocks, the most common Thundurus answer in my experience. Also, I didn't list it because the post was getting unreasonably long and bloated for a good cores post, but Rock Polish Lando-I + Mixed Thundurus-I is a perfectly reasonable core, and that move would allow you to go from Scarf Keldeo -> CM Keldeo. The whole balance when using the three together (and you should because Keldeo checks Weavile and that's huge, but I'll get to that) is to maintain some reasonable balance between immediate attacker (aka no set-up), faster cleaner and set-up breaker. You can run any combination of the three really, and that's the real beauty of it: as long as you don't overplay your hand early you keep them guessing. From your current team make-up wallbreaker Thundurs-I, CM Keldeo and RP Landorus-I seems like a solid mix.

As far as specific moves on the sets below, Psychic + Sludge Wave allow Landorus to beat Mega Venu and Clefable respectively (both big checks to Thundy). On Thundurus, HP Ice beats Gliscor and the combo of Knock Off and Superpower beats Chansey (who otherwise handles Landorus well). There's different ways to go about it as both have really deep movepools, but that combination does a great job of allowing them to beat one the others checks.

Going back to Keldeo, having workable checks for the two biggest Ice Shard users in the tier should be a priority. Keldeo checks Weavile pretty well, but Mamo is less accounted for. Your team is also lacking in any form of hazard, and there's a quick fix for that. Going from Skarm to Magnet Rise Klefki allows you to hard check Mamoswine reasonably, as well as giving you Spikes support. I would also go from Sylveon to Latias. The reason for this is simple, it replaces the Defog support lost when I mentioned removing Skarm. Healing Wish can also give one of your big guns another shot at sweeping when they are worn down. The bigger issue with those two, they stop any momentum you have gained. Double Genie offense thrives off of earning momentum and not letting the other team breathe. Every time you switch to Skarm or Sylveon, you lose virtually all the momentum you have gained and may even give some back the other way. Klefki and Latias give up less free turns than the two you have now, and you get more of a pure HO offense look instead of the more polarized balanced look you have now (ie extreme offense meets extreme defense). That's much more of a subjective thing, but I feel it would run more smoothly if everything synced up better.

That's all I've got, nice looking squad there.

Sets

Some posted the Thundy set above, but I'm reposting it because Wyunat

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power Ice

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 8 Def / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Sludge Wave

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword

-------

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Healing Wish

Klefki @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough

Thanks for a well detailed explanation on everything. I just tested it out and I like the changes. Only problem is the lack of priority attacking moves (but I never had any to start with so its not your fault) and its more of a hyper offense team which sounds great. Klefki is really handy because no one else could take a dragon type move, specifically draco meteor, on my team. Calm Mind Keldeo is a really good sweeper once I get rid of everything that outspeeds it. Thanks for the sets too!

 

[Toon Linked]

Nice team, love the changes! I tried out the team and its superb.

 

[Flygonial]

I don't think your team is particularly fond of Mamoswine or Weavile, but it seems like you can play your way around them. However, it seems like your team has a compound triple electric weakness before 'Zard Mega Evolves, and I don't think you'd be switching it into anything with Charizard - even after it mega evolves, since it needs to be healthy as it can to set-up. Zapdos over Skarmory would help with that, but it won't against Mamo or Weavile. Replacing it with Ferrothorn won't be too disruptive to synergy but then you'd lose out on defog support. Do Mega Manectric and Raikou ever pose a problem for you?

 

[TPP]

I don't think your team is particularly fond of Mamoswine or Weavile, but it seems like you can play your way around them. However, it seems like your team has a compound triple electric weakness before 'Zard Mega Evolves, and I don't think you'd be switching it into anything with Charizard - even after it mega evolves, since it needs to be healthy as it can to set-up. Zapdos over Skarmory would help with that, but it won't against Mamo or Weavile. Replacing it with Ferrothorn won't be too disruptive to synergy but then you'd lose out on defog support. Do Mega Manectric and Raikou ever pose a problem for you?

Check the edits as I added Latias and Klefki in places of Sylveon and Skarmory. I haven't had much problems with them because Charizard X takes them out, but I can see what you mean as both of them can sweep my team afterwards. Latias should be able to take care of them, but I understand your point. Thanks

 

[Flygonial]

Alright, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[AD impish john]

It's been so long my friend and its time for my better team Rating skillz to shine ^_^

I'm not going to change Lando-I and Thundurus as it makes your team the Double Geni Core. Why are Keldeo and Lando-I EVs 30/30? You're not running any Hidden power so I would fix it to 31/31. Change calm mind to HP ice to hit other Lando-I and other ground types such as Garchomp. Latias/Mega Zard X Counters Mega Manectric easily but its Raikou that is the threat. Imo make Klefki a screen set upper to take less damage from your threats even though you lose your set up spikes it may help. Hope I helped ^_^

Pokemon

Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Foul Play/Play Rough
- Thunder Wave

 

[Mega NO Body]

Hi pokepal I'm rating your team for a change haha. Anyway I think Klefki should run dazzling gleam over playrough to deal with tank chomp. And since you have defog on latias setting up spikes become useless since you'll just remove them yourself with defog.

 

[TPP]

Hi pokepal I'm rating your team for a change haha. Anyway I think Klefki should run dazzling gleam over playrough to deal with tank chomp. And since you have defog on latias setting up spikes become useless since you'll just remove them yourself with defog.

Dazzing Gleam will probably work better Mega Sableye as well, so I'll change that. I'm also going to use Starmie > Latias because half my team was weak to ice, and Rapid Spin doesn't remove my spikes.