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Metagame 1v1

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by The Immortal, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Yung Dramps

    Yung Dramps

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2017
    Messages:
    513
    Oh hey! Buzzwole! Neato!

    I've been using this guy, but with a totally different set. Here it is:

    S W O L E (Buzzwole) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Superpower
    - Lunge
    - Poison Jab
    - Stone Edge

    Lunge is a cool choice on this set for extra power over physical attackers like Megagross. 12 spe is for base 80s.
    Tallydaorangez likes this.
  2. Wrath of Alakazam

    Wrath of Alakazam

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Messages:
    118
    That's not my usual Buzzwole, just this one set I found to be super cool. I usually use Fightinium Z 252HP/ 148 Atk / 108 Defense ,Adamant of course,with Bulk Up/SuperPower/ Stone Edge/ Leech Life . The EV's are for surviving Flare Blitz from Charizard-Mega X.

    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Buzzwole: 354-416 (84.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    PS: Tally just had me realised that this was post #802[My bae Marshadow's Pokedex number] ,so shout-out to Tallydaorangez
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
    Tallydaorangez likes this.
  3. Iron Crusher

    Iron Crusher

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    Heyo Iron Crusher here with a few thing first of all i'm superexcited about the upcoming suspect, but this post is not about that, this post is simply about a slightly underused mega, namely mega medicham!

    Zen Smasher (Medicham-Mega) @ Medichamite
    Ability: Pure Power
    EVs: 52 HP / 184 Atk / 252 Def / 20 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Rock Tomb
    - High Jump Kick
    - Bulk Up

    it's however a different set compared to the normal fast medicham as it's designed to take out, kyurem-black, Charizard-mega-X and Gyarados-mega.

    Defensive calcs (open)

    +1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 52 HP / 252 Def Medicham-Mega: 216-255 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 52 HP / 252 Def Medicham-Mega: 223-264 (81.3 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 52 HP / 252 Def Medicham-Mega: 231-273 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    Now that we have that out of the way we can talk about the matchups mainly the offensive calcs and the matchups:

    Gyarados-Mega (open)

    For this matchup the first thing you need to know if the gyara is bulky or not, to figure this out you just start with fake out + rock tomb:
    -1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 62-73 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO
    -1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 184-218 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    -1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gyarados: 55-65 (13.9 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO
    -1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gyarados: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    so judging from this you can either judge the set by damage or do it simpler and just see if it outspeeds you when you use rock tomb.
    if the gyara is fast you can simply press High-Jump-Kick to kill it after rock tomb + fake out:
    -1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 148-174 (44.7 - 52.5%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO

    If the gyara is slow however you press rock tomb once more, either that will kill it or another hit will take it out as just a High-Jump-Kick will not always do enough:
    -1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gyarados: 131-155 (33.2 - 39.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

    If it megas at any point in this matchup High-Jump-Kick will most likely end up killing it.

    Replay fast gyara: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-638099061
    Replay bulky gyara 1: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-638524803
    Replay bulky gyara 2: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-638526584


    Charizard-Mega-X (open)

    For this matchup knowing wether the zard is bulky or not is simple, as you can measure the damage with fake out:
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 69-82 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- 73.2% chance to 4HKO
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 51-61 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 69-82 (19.1 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO

    if the Charizard-mega-x is not bulky you can simply press High-Jump-Kick to win:
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 336-396 (113.1 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 336-396 (93.3 - 110%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

    if the charizard-mega-x however is bulky you need to start with bulk up as normal High-Jump-Kick will not kill the bulky variant and it could press counter on the rock tomb:
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 246-289 (68.3 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 152-180 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
    +1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 367-433 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Replay fast zard: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-637374877
    Replay bulky zard: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-638533200


    kyurem-black (open)

    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Kyurem-Black: 552-650 (121.8 - 143.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    i think this is what's to say about that, it either lives an outrage and kills or outspeed and kills.
    it does lose to fast icium kyub as a small warning.


    other interesting calcs (open)

    Magearna:
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 34-40 (9.3 - 10.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 325-384 (89.2 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    Not a guaranteed kill but it's pretty cool.

    Donphan:
    252+ Atk Donphan Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. +1 52 HP / 252 Def Medicham-Mega: 178-211 (64.9 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. +1 52 HP / 252 Def Medicham-Mega: 28-33 (10.2 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO
    +1 184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 469-553 (122.1 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-637384366

    Mega-blastoise:
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 208 HP / 112 Def Blastoise-Mega: 59-70 (16.8 - 19.9%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 208 HP / 112 Def Blastoise-Mega: 285-336 (81.1 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    again not a guaranteed kill but pretty cool imo.

    Durant:
    228 Atk Choice Band Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 52 HP / 252 Def Medicham-Mega: 223-264 (81.3 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (not that it won't flinch)
    184+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Durant: 333-393 (126.6 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    This thing can take a bigger punch than expected from it and i've been having quite some fun with it ripping things to shreds, anyhow hope you all enjoyed reading this and hope it's usable. have fun using it, or not! :P

    ~Iron Crusher
  4. Wrath of Alakazam

    Wrath of Alakazam

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Messages:
    118
    An interesting set, but this literally kills the same thing regular MedichM kills, except an extra kill in scarf KyuB, right? Coz TPunch without Faking Out kills reg gyarados, since not many ppl mega Evolve gyarados!!
    dusk raimon likes this.
  5. Iron Crusher

    Iron Crusher

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    not really this set is mean to beat kyurem-black, gyarados-mega and Charizard-Mega-X 100% or maybe just 95% of the time but this set removes the aspect of 50/50's like will gyara mega or not, or the 50/50 speedtie with charizard-mega-x, it's also adamant and thus it has slightly more firepower. it's meant to be a more guaranteed counter than that.
    It's bulk and firepower do have it's uses outside of those like durant and physical mega blaziken. just trust me it does not do the same. if you have any other questions you can just ask me on PS.
  6. TGC Disunited

    TGC Disunited

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    61
    It also beats Bronzong if anyone cared at all
  7. RNGIsFatal

    RNGIsFatal

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    799
    Two things to ask:

    1. Will Power Construct be banned or allowed in suspect ladder? I personally believe it should be temporarily unbanned in suspect ladder to see how it influences the metagame so that we can make better decisions.

    2. There are like 3 people including me who actually posted opinions about possible Power Construct unban... what do you all think? Again, I think it will make the metagame more dynamic while not breaking the equilibrium of 1v1 food chain because you can't abuse the bulk until you take a hit and transform, which means it won't make crazy defensive plays like living Ice Beam from Greninja, prevailing against Kyurem-B and others by abusing its bulk.
    charizard8888, DEG and MaceMaster like this.
  8. MaceMaster

    MaceMaster

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    366
    With the Power Construct suspect coming up soon, and no one posting any sets for it, I thought I'd take a stab at it. I spent a couple hours in the teambuilder, and here's what sets I came up with...

    [​IMG]
    Zygarde @ Groundium Z
    Ability: Power Construct
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 8 SpD / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Thousand Arrows
    - Substitute
    - Rock Slide
    This first set is a modified version of my original Aura Break Zygarde. The EVs as compared to the original remove the speed investment as Zygarde-C's greater bulk and lower speed make this both unnecessary and impractical. Instead, most of them are poured into the attack to improve rolls. This set beats Magearna and Mega Mawile who are, outside of this set, good checks to Zygod. Substitute blocks various status moves such as Sleep Powder and Charm. Rock Slide hits Mega Pinsir. This set does have some notable disadvantages though such as losing to every Kyurem, Gyarados and Charizard X set in existence, which brings me to Zydoge...

    [​IMG]
    Zygarde-10% @ Dragonium Z
    Ability: Power Construct
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 224 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Dance
    - Coil
    What makes Zydoge interesting is that it can proc Power Construct safely by using Substitute twice, or not proc it at all and instead use its Devastating Drake and high speed to nuke non-Scarf Kyurem and Charizard X. It can also beat some Gyarados variants, and any variant if your opponent doesn't know how to play around it. The protocol against Charizard X is simple: use Substitute turn 1 to scout and play appropriately from there. Kyurem is even more simple: just click Devastating Drake. Gyarados, however, is interesting. Here's a little flowchart for you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qJbNUS5IVVJPLHgb-W-cqGcgeXvZs4lKF0eOhiKwJds/edit?usp=sharing
    There are some annoyances with this set, however. It's unable to beat Scarfers/faster pokemon that other sets can beat such as Porygon-Z. Its mono-dragon coverage paired with Tapu Koko's access to Taunt makes this the only relevant ground type that standard Koko can beat...

    [​IMG]
    Zygarde @ Dragonium Z
    Ability: Power Construct
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 8 SpD / 28 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Coil
    - Outrage
    - Extreme Speed
    - Thousand Arrows
    Finally we have the defensive set. This set is able to beat any non-Taunt Gyarados as well as Donphan which gives it a niche over the others. Like Zydoge, it's also able to beat Charizard X. Not a whole lot to discuss regarding this set. Enjoy the sets once the suspect starts! Might add some sample teams with these sets once I actually build them to be sure everyone gets a chance to use Zygod during the suspect.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  9. Iron Crusher

    Iron Crusher

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    I'll just post what i think then.
    I personally don't have anu real idea on how it is going to affect the meta at all, i do hope to see it unbanned for the suspect so we can actually see what it does and how well it does.
    i've also been working on my own set and my own team for the suspect and i found that it beats a surprising amount of things as it's very hard to kill without a solid ice type move, my set is purely defensive tho so naturally it takes hits but the extra bulk it gets from transforming does help it in various matchups like against Charizard-Mega-X.
    This is the set i have been basing my calcs of:

    10% (Zygarde) @ Groundium Z
    Ability: Power Construct
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Coil
    - Rest
    - Thousand Arrows
    - Core Enforcer

    Coil boosts defenses and offensive capabilities, rest for recovery, thousand arrows because no immunity attacks are useful, and core enforcer because counter exists.
    As for calcs it's surprisingly though to calc for it's complete form as it gains health thus having to calc it manually.

    So as for the calcs and what this thing beats i'll show you what i found for this set:

    Kyurem-Black (open)

    Ye kyurem-Black just wins this matchup pretty much no doubt, it either hits it with an ice beam or with a subzero-slammer and it doesn't seem to live that
    4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 472-564 (112.3 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 864-1020 (205.7 - 242.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Replay 1: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-639081517
    Replay 2:


    Gyarados-Mega (open)

    This matchup however should be won by Zygarde-Complete:
    Replay 3: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-639081517
    Replay 4: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-639080955
    This matchup consists of hitting coil then arrows then coil and tectonic depending on the damage.
    4 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 91-108 (27.4 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    +1 4 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 271-319 (81.6 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    Charizard-Mega-X (open)

    this matchup consists of pressing coil taking 2 hits and taking out with tectonic rage.
    I actually did some real pain in the ass calcs for this:
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 320-380 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    420 X 0.904 = 379.68
    636 - 379.68 = 256.32
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 216-254 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    636 X 0.399 = 253.764
    256.32 - 253.764 = 2.556 = ~1%
    haha you just barely survive that fun ain't it.
    Replay 5: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-638970668
    What happens if it doesn't mega i'll show you:
    Replay 6: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-638972431
    Replay 7: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-638974791


    Tapu Koko (open)

    It's a ground type, should say enough.


    Tapu Lele (open)

    Not much to say it mainly just loses.
    168+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde in Psychic Terrain: 463-546 (110.2 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde in Psychic Terrain: 406-478 (96.6 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
    4 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 246-291 (87.5 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO


    Mega Aggron (open)

    you start this matchup by pressing coil and see what set it is
    Curse aggron:
    This matchup is basically a PP-stall unless hax occurs as you will not be able to deal enough damage unless hax occurs, you should still win this one tho as:
    (rest)16 + (coil)32 + (thousand arrow)16 + (core enforcer)16 = 80 > (curse)16 + (head smash)8 + (rest)16 + (heavy slam) 16 = 56
    Metal burst aggron:
    you have Core enforcer to break sturdy and setup to kill filter Aggron-Mega so this is a kill:
    Replay 8: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-638987016


    Charizard-Mega-Y (open)

    let's get this show on the road:
    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 158-187 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    420 X 0.445 X 2 = 373.8
    636 - 373.8 = 262.2
    252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete in Sun: 223-263 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    636 X 0.413 = 262.668
    262.2 - 262.668 = -0.468 = ~0% = around a 99% chance to kill, so i'd say it's safe
    Replay 9: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-638999414


    dragonite (open)

    NEXT!!!
    actual calcs (open)

    252+ Atk Dragonite Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 440-518 (104.7 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 416-492 (99 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 408-480 (97.1 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO



    Lopunny-Mega (open)

    This should win even in worst case scenario being ice punch:
    252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 216-256 (51.4 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    420 X 0.609 = 255.78
    636 - 255.78 = 380.22
    252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Ice Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 144-172 (22.6 - 27%) -- 36.3% chance to 4HKO
    636 - 0.27 = 171.72
    380.22 - 171.72 = 208.5
    252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Ice Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 112-132 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
    636 X 0.207 = 131.652
    208.5 - 131.652 = 76.848
    oh right almost forgot fake out damage:
    420 X 0.123 = 51.66
    76.848 - 51.66 = 25.188
    at this point you can safely KO with Tectonic rage:
    Replay 10: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-639012042


    magearna (open)

    4 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 344-408 (94.5 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    this is a roll, not much else to say about that, no chance of living tho:
    0+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 602-710 (143.3 - 169%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Mawile-Mega (open)

    252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 350-414 (83.3 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    420 X 0.985 = 413.7
    636 - 413.7 = 222.3
    252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 236-278 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    636 X 0.437 = 277.932
    222.32 - 277.932 = -55.612
    Hmm this is a roll, darn i need to run the minimum calcs now, man this is taking up wayy too much time.
    420 X 0.833 = 349.86
    636-349.86 = 286.14
    636 X 0.371 = 235.956
    286.14 - 235.956 = 50.184
    -55.612 + 50.184 = -5.428 = a roll in the favor of Mega-mawile


    Metagross-Mega (open)

    This is a win even in worse case scenario which is ice punch:
    252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 320-380 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    as this is the exact same damage as Charizard-Mega-X with outrage so i won't repeat those.
    Replay 11: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-639025787
    With magnet rise,
    Replay 12: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-639026792


    Mimikyu (open)

    this is a loss if the mimikyu is either fairium, bulky, Z-charm or curse so i'd not use this as a reliable counter.


    pinsir-mega (open)

    Pinsir wins this if it has swords dance ( Swords Dance 42.750%) and a weaker move to hit it with like earthquake
    you set up with coil, pinsir sets up with Swords dance, it hits you with the weaker move then with giga impact you lose:
    +3 4 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +6 252 Atk Pinsir-Mega Earthquake vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 125-148 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 20.9% chance to 3HKO
    +6 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Giga Impact vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 337-397 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +6 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Giga Impact vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 421-496 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +4 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Giga Impact vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 423-498 (100.7 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Aegislash (open)

    this is a win for Zygarde:
    252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 333-393 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 40-48 (6.2 - 7.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    4 Atk Zygarde-Complete Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 272-324 (83.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
    4 Atk Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 138-164 (42.5 - 50.6%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO


    Donphan (open)

    Definite win,
    252+ Atk Donphan Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 192-226 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO
    252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 116-140 (27.6 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
    Just chip it with Core enforcer, set up rest and hit it with tectonic rage.
    Replay 13: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-639035971


    Landorus (open)

    this thing simply cannot deal enough damage to kill this unless it crits after setting up.
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 220-261 (52.3 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 82-97 (12.8 - 15.2%) -- possible 7HKO
    +6 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 489-576 (76.8 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    and because most landorus sets lack recovery you can simply chip at it until you win.


    Magnezone (open)

    This is a win unless it's a specs magnezone,
    252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 300-356 (71.4 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 452-532 (107.6 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Porygon-Z (open)

    If it has ice beam you lose immediately,
    252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 464-548 (110.4 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 384-454 (91.4 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    otherwise it's a roll.
    you can't ohko it:
    4 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Porygon-Z: 259-306 (83.2 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    BUT uproar won't kill it either:
    252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Uproar vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 232-274 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    420 X 0.652 = 273.84
    636 - 273.84 = 362.16
    252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Uproar vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 232-274 (36.4 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    636 X 0.43 = 273.48
    362.16-273.48 = 88.68 = it LIVES!!
    just carry ice beam for this and PZ will be fine.


    Snorlax (open)

    This is an interesting one actually, this one can put lax in a though spot.
    +6 124+ Atk Snorlax Breakneck Blitz (190 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 343-405 (81.6 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 4 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 132 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 399-471 (80.7 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    it all still seems to come down to sleep rolls in the end. hihi SLEEP


    Slowbro-Mega (open)

    this is a loss, not much else to say


    Venusaur-Mega (open)

    Does the venu carry charm, yes = you lose, no = you don't


    Alright this took a lot longer than i expected it to, i will most likely at more matchups at a later date but for today i just worked through all A/S ranks today, hope you all enjoyed reading this anyhow and if it gave you a bigger view of what zygod can actually do.

    current end stats (open)

    Win 11, lose 5, Chance 5


    ~Iron Crusher
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
    Gross Sweep, r0spe, Baleblaze and 8 others like this.
  10. TGC Disunited

    TGC Disunited

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    Apr 30, 2017
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    Wow get ready for my third short post in a row (long one will be coming soon-ish!)
    Give us a REAL replay for Mega-Gyarados. Custom Game does NOT include Intimidate, and I wonder why you did not just do it in Ubers like literally all your other replays.
  11. MaceMaster

    MaceMaster

    Joined:
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    Hey, that's pretty good :] Your calcs could have been simplified, though... When Zygarde transforms, the damage it took to get below 50% is subtracted from complete form's max HP. This means that as long as Zygarde takes at least 50% from the first hit but isn't OHKOd, it's just easier to do the calcs with complete form. Example:
    How you did it:
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 320-380 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    420 X 0.904 = 379.68
    636 - 379.68 = 256.32
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 216-254 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    636 X 0.399 = 253.764
    256.32 - 253.764 = 2.556 = ~1%

    How it could have been done:
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 320-380 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [Proof that first hit does between 50 and 99 percent]
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 320-380 (50.3 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 216-254 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Total Max Damage: 99.6%

    How you're doing it right now is correct, but I just figured that since you said you were planning on continuing the analysis you might want to know that trick n_n
    Kentari and charizard8888 like this.
  12. DEG

    DEG Let's snuggle forever!
    is a Smogon Media Contributor

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    motogp, nv, MaceMaster and 10 others like this.
  13. Yung Dramps

    Yung Dramps

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    After a little less than 2 weeks of hard-ish work and many many pointless arguments, I, as well as everyone else credited in this document, proudly present



    [​IMG][​IMG]1v1 Throwback[​IMG][​IMG]

    Wut it is: Basically, we made a resource document and VR on how to play 1v1 in Generations 1-5.

    The Google Doc with all the rules n' shit: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yAo6KA4PxZgodGXeoo2r6pYXbRNwmlryMNjDNObbz6c

    Where to discuss all this stuff: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-gens-other-metas-mega-thread.3597495/page-2 Not all generations are listed yet!

    We hope you enjoy![​IMG]
  14. ManectricOP!

    ManectricOP! I COULD BE BANNED!

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    i was forced into this ;(((
    motogp likes this.
  15. DEG

    DEG Let's snuggle forever!
    is a Smogon Media Contributor

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    Suspect Test 3.0: Kyurem-Black.



    [​IMG]
    The 1v1 Leadership team has voted upon Kyurem-Black to be suspected before Power Construct, as the result of this suspect test may change the results of the Power Construct's suspect test. The test will run for 2 weeks until Monday 16th of October at 23:59 GMT and the requirements are 2600 COIL on the 1v1 ladder. You are not required to make a fresh alt because there will be a new ladder with Kyurem-Black being BANNED. Once you've achieved your requirements create a Smogon conversation with me with a screenshot of your /rank and your vote, that way we can keep the thread clean and the vote private. Make sure to abuse Kyurem-Black on the ladder while you can! Polite discussion is highly encouraged, please do not talk about the Pokemon unless you have tested to not plague the thread with fake-statements. Kyurem-Black will need a 60% majority to get banned.

    Justifications: "Kyurem-Black was always allowed in the 1v1 metagame even since Generation 5, and it was always one of the best Pokemon in the metagame. In Generation 7, it gained new tools in Z-moves and the metagame shifts favored the usage of Kyurem-Black and its sets.

    Main problem in Kyurem-Black that it has many viable sets, while unpredictability isn't a problem and shouldn't be weighted too much while deciding, but these multiple sets of Kyurem-Black comes with little to no opportunity loss. These sets combined with its raw bulk allows it to defeat a good portion of the metagame easily. People said that Kyurem-Black forced people to run 100% counters that check all of its sets and not just the popular ones because you cannot know what it runs, and these Pokemon are limited."

    Sample Set (open)


    Choice Scarf
    Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Fusion Bolt

    Icium-Z
    Kyurem-Black @ Icium Z
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 200 Def / 44 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Iron Head
    - Freeze Shock

    Choice Band
    Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpA
    Relaxed Nature
    - Outrage
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Fusion Bolt

    Groundium-Z
    Kyurem-Black @ Groundium Z
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs: 16 HP / 236 Def / 248 SpA / 4 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earth Power
    - Rock Tomb
    - Ice Beam


    The B value for this test is 20. To figure out how many battles you'll need to have in order to achieve reqs, first determine your GXE (shown on the ladder and when you type /rank) and plug that into the following formula:

    N=20/log2(40*GXE/2600)

    (Google calculator is awesome for this kind of thing)

    Happy suspect and discussion!
    Join the 1v1 room for live discussion!
  16. Wrath of Alakazam

    Wrath of Alakazam

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    I swear this is the best thing that's gonna happen to 1v1
  17. RNGIsFatal

    RNGIsFatal

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    First of all I can't believe the suspect test has been postponed this late; from the beginning of this gen Kyurem-B was a fearsome threat that was overcentralizing with couple number of sets that is empowered by its monstrous defensive stats that laughs at Electroweb + Flash Cannon from Air Balloon Magnezone, +1 Outrage from Mega Gyarados, and Moonblast from Tapu Lele. That is not to mention Kyurem-B has been the best, if not, one of the best scarfers for generations. Until last generation I thought Kyurem-B is one-dimentional to certain extent because it needed Choice Scarf to deal with majority of the metagame but thanks to Gamefreak, a new toy called Icium Z forced all teams to naturally prepare for a fat 'mon that can tank a hit that is not reliant on Sturdy. This Ice Dragon is a cheap cash money in any portion of the ladder that has one of the best natural bulk / mixed offensive stats / movepool / ability (Teravolt) in the metagame, with the unpredictability rivaling Charizard which has two megas. More than couple EV spreads are viable to take on different threats, and specifically preparing for this leads to less versatile teams. I believe it is finally a time to get rid of this dragon from this tier.
  18. Yung Dramps

    Yung Dramps

    Joined:
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    Why are you putting Groundium Kyurem as a set here? Haven't we already established that it's just a shitty meme set? Specs or Weakness Policy would be better imo.

    Also, I don't think I need to explain how I feel about this suspect. But for those who haven't gotten it by now... YES. BAN. KILL. DELET!!!!
    Fanyfan likes this.
  19. RNGIsFatal

    RNGIsFatal

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    While Choice Specs and Weakness Policy are possible options, Choice Specs sets are almost always outclassed by Icium Z which threatens much larger portion of the meta and Weakness Policy works against Mega Metagross and that's about it. You are faster than Mega Gyarados which will press Outrage, Mega Mawile that will press Iron Head / Play Rough, and Magearna which will press Fleur Cannon.

    On the other hand, Groudium-Z can simultaneously threaten Mega Metagross, Mega Mawile, Magearna, and other Steel-types that are not bulky enough. This isn't merely a meme created by UselessCrabâ„¢. It is actually another viable set that Kyurem-B abuses to circumvent around its checks.
    Yung Dramps and Uselesscrab like this.
  20. lost heros

    lost heros Meme Master

    Joined:
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    381
    I feel like you don't actually know what these sets do exactly.

    Choice Specs isn't to get a Strong Ice STAB, it's used to circumvent Physical Walls. Choice Specs Kyurem-B not only performs nearly as well against most things that Icium-Z KyuB beats, but better against Physical Walls like Buzzwole, Specially weak Pokemon like Mega Mawile and Crustle, and can also act as a lure for Mixed walls like Mega Slowbro and Mega Venusaur (which can beat Kyurem-B by simply correctly predicting Subzero Slammer with a Protect)

    As for Weakness Policy, WP KyuB is slower than Gyara, unless you're not running a -spe nature? So that's easy enough. And Weakness Policy triggers against Dragon-types as well which gives it an advantage against Defensive Mega Charizard X, which Choice Scarf can lose to. As for Mawile, simply roosting on a predicted sucker punch turns what would be a counter into a 50/50.

    So the only real advantage Groundium Z has over Kyurem-B's other sets, is that it can beat Mega Metagross, Magearna, Mega Aggron, and Mega Mawile. But that's it! It doesn't preform as well against walls, physically bulky pokemon, or even Aegislash which Bulky Icium Z does better against. And then there are the other Steel-types Genesect, Celesteela, and Kartana where Groundium Z doesn't change the outcome at all. And while yes, beating 4 of the strongest pokemon in 1v1 is undeniably a good thing, it's just not worth it. All four can be beaten by most Fire-types or Ground-types. So whenever you use 1 Kyurem-B you can have to use Groundium Z, just ask yourself is it really worth it.

    And we still have to remember that Groundium Z had virtually no usage at 1630 weighted stats (or at least it didn't back in August's ladder / Suspect Ladder) while Choice Specs, Haban, and Weakness Policy sets DID.
  21. DEG

    DEG Let's snuggle forever!
    is a Smogon Media Contributor

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    I don't get it, why is there no discussion on this subject. After one week of a Kyurem-Black-less metagame, I'm pretty sure both sides need to argument and convince the other side. Without that there's no use of suspect testing, I get it you're discussing it in the room but I'd like to you to put it here. Anyways, I do not really think Kyurem-Black should be banned at all.

    Kyurem-Black has the all-around stats and everything else but it just falls short against other threats. Also as a Pokemon that has been the glue for 1v1 for so long, I'm pretty sure there's lot of changes in the metagame that we would like to discuss.

    Kyurem-Black is able to beat a good portion of the metagame but it cannot brainlessly beat the other portion, also some of the Pokemon it beats can be adjusted allowing them to beat Kyurem-Black. Meanwhile, this Pokemon doesn't even restrict teambuilding, there's a plethora of Pokemon that are good and are able to defeat Kyurem-Black to name a few, Mega Charizard X, Mega Gyarados, Jirachi, Fini, Primarina, Mega Mawile, Mega Heracross... All of them and more are capable to easily beat the suspected Pokemon. Now ya'll are going to jump on me and name me a few sets that are never seen like Electrium-Z and Groundium-Z, well can't any Pokemon beat another with such coverage moves? Plus they come with a big opportunity cost which makes Kyurem-Black lose against another bunch of Pokemon. Now I guess we should focus in Tournaments format and not ladder format where Kyurem-Black can run everything, but still the tournament formats is filled with much more Pokemon and unpredictable Pokemon that can really give Kyurem-Black a heart time adapting.

    On another note, I don't really see what differentiate Kyurem-Black from other threats like Tapu Koko, Sleep abusers, Mega Gyarados and others, they all are good and borderline but still nothing pushing them over the edge. Plus with that ladder being without Kyurem-Black the metagame is much more worse, there's lot of Sturdy Pokemon that are gaining the opportunity to double in usage, this pushes the metagame to be centralized more and more around Sturdy users which might end up bad. I urge you to discuss and show your opinion on this thread, so I and others can read where you're coming from and justify yourself.
    nv, wishes, Kentari and 3 others like this.
  22. Wrath of Alakazam

    Wrath of Alakazam

    Joined:
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    Since y'all are cooling
    Right, since y'all are cooling your boots, I'll be the first one to post.

    No, the problem with KyuB has been its ability to be a monstrous physical offender, and a special offender capable of killing its physical counters. This is not even about unpredictability of the KyuB, it's about how it limits team-building to a very narrow field of like 3-4 mons, namely Genesect, Terrakion, Metagross-M. Every other possible counter has a viable KyuB set to beat it. For example, bulky band beat MegaGyarados, Megacross, MegaCharizardX, Primarina, Tapu Fini, while specs beat MawileM and some others....

    Now, you think we may be jumping at you stating Electrium or Groundium. But the point here is that you need a dedicated KyuB counter in your team to not kill it! The last time such a team-builder narrowing Pokemon happened, Marshadow was banned!! And I see no reason or fact how KyuB is no way worse, broken and unfit for the meta than Marshadow was.


    The difference between TapuKoko, sleep, MGyara others(A) and KyuB (B) is that (A) forest not need a team to have a dedicated counter in it, does not fit the term broken. Sturdy is seeing usage because it has hardly been any time since KyuB was not allowed in, and already there are counter strats like sableye-mega, Venusaur-M, Chansey, amongst others to counter Sturdies


    #BanKyuB
    #EnoughIsEnough
    #GoBackToCoolingYourBoots
    #OMG1V1PLDraftOnToday4PMESTDon'tMissIt
  23. UnleashOurPassion

    UnleashOurPassion Nederbob

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    I just woke up, will make a proper post when I'm awake. For now: Fini and Primarina don't beat Kyurem-Black
    MaceMaster likes this.
  24. Yung Dramps

    Yung Dramps

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    I would make a big huge post discussing my opinions. Thing is, I already did that back in August. So I'm just gonna re-link my old Kyurem-Ban post. While some info may be outdated, I think the point it's trying to make still stands.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-kyurem-black-suspect-test.3587523/page-23#post-7473432

    Also, concerning DEG's thoughts on the Kyurem-less meta, I personally believe that it's a whole lot better. With Kyurem-Black gone, you can spend more time preparing for the rest of the metagame, which includes Sturdy users. Yes, they have certainly gotten more common, but I feel that it still isn't unbeatable. But if Kyurem-Black is banned, and it really turns out that the Sturdies become too much (which they won't, trust me), just suspect them! Remember, we don't wanna check broken with broken.
    charizard8888 likes this.
  25. RNGIsFatal

    RNGIsFatal

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    Sorry for one liner.
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-kyurem-black-suspect-test.3587523/page-27#post-7493875

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