Old Gens Other Metas Mega Thread

#26
Just to add on to this (and bump up this thread), here's someone who codes saying that they were in fact hackable onto teams in game
[16:31] jasp(=^-^=)baking: wait mac, pokestar studio mons are hackable onto in game teams in gen 5, right?
[16:31] @ MacChaeger.: Yes
It's been a while, but iirc the pokestars didn't have back sprites and would crash the game if hacked onto the players party (which moght have been related). Is this not the case?
 

Squawkerz

Torchic is best mon
#27
if these pokestar studios opponents are legal, then here is a list of all the usable types

all of these have 100 base on all stats
-Fighting (Black Belt)
-Grass (Black Door)
-Dark/Psychic (Brycen-Man)
-Steel/Normal (F-00 and F-002)
-Normal (Humanoid and Monica)
-Dark/Ghost (Spirit)
-Steel (MT and Transport)
-Steel/Electric (MT2)
-Dark (Monster)
-Flying/Electric (UFO)
-Psychic/Electric (UFO-2)
-Fire (White Door)

Out of these, the best one seems like Spirit, due to it having no weaknesses. Humanoid/Monica could be useful, but it would likely be outclassed by Chansey, Blissey, Slaking, and Regigigas. Brycen-Man, UFO-2, and F-00(2) could all use their unique types to throw an opponent off.
 

Pikachuun

邪法使い_CC
is a Pre-Contributor
#28
It's been a while, but iirc the pokestars didn't have back sprites and would crash the game if hacked onto the players party (which moght have been related). Is this not the case?
I'd like to think it's not the case, otherwise there's a bit of explaining that needs to be done.

EDIT: I will note that it is incredibly unstable (as in it would constantly hatch if you walk and turn into an egg after a battle) according to a source, which may be where this claim came from, but in-battle it's perfectly usable
 
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Vid

Love Yourz
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
#29
Before I forget, Monotype now has its own Past-Gen Mega Thread where stuff has been updated to reflect recent metagame trends (mostly Ice becoming a great anti-meta type in BW along with a couple other minor things)
The thread can be found here
 
#30
Hey! Some users in the 1v1 community decided to bring back old gens 1v1. They have worked pretty hard to achieve resources and rules from Generation 1 to 5. Some of them are completely done while others aren't done yet. I'll post as soon as they are done. I really appreciate the job they have done, here's the discord link where everything happened.

Generation I by Yung Dramps and Joker 1v1


Banlist: Self-KO Clause, OHKO moves, Sleep inducing, Clamp, Fire Spin, Evasion, Mewtwo, Mew

Why?

Sleep Moves



Everybody knows about the Gen 1 sleep bug where you spend a turn waking up. Now, in normal Gen 1 OU, this is crappy, but isn’t uncounterable, because you have two magical things called switching and sleep clause! No such luck in 1v1. Fast Pokemon like Gengar and Jynx can put slower threats into an endless loop, where they are continuously battered down with no escape. Exeggutor, meanwhile, has more than enough bulk to take hits comfortably, put the foe to sleep, and then weakening them with Psychic a few times before finishing it with Explosion. The only real counter to Sleep is to either outspeed AND OHKO (which is extremely difficult in Gen 1 due to Special and the generally higher bulk of everything due to having 252 EVs in all stats), or to hope the opposing sleep move misses.


Wrap/Fire Spin



Wrap is basically the same issue as Sleep, where if you don’t outspeed or KO, the opponent can put you in an endless vortex of pain. The primary offender is the Dragonite evolutionary line, all of which can make use of the infamous AgiliWrap set, where you tank a hit, double your speed, and then Wrap them to death. Tentacruel is not as horrific in the Psychic-type infested landscape of Gen 1, but it does have a few cool bonuses over Dragonite, such as Swords Dance, Barrier, and higher natural speed, notably allowing it to outpace Jynx, Articuno and opposing Dragonite. Rapidash (who uses Fire Spin) is even faster than Tentacruel, isn’t weak to Psychic, and has Agility to top it all off. In the end, these Pokemon use this broken mechanic to their advantage to cause chaos and disorder. And as for Bind, we do not deem it as broken as Wrap simply because there are only 3 mons that get it, and one of them is Tangela. The fastest Pokemon that gets this move is Pinsir, who has no way to boost speed, and whose natural speed is underwhelming. We will keep an eye on it, though. Cloyster is also on the watchlist.

Rules: No Team Preview, Bring 1.

Viability Rankings (Alpha):

S Ranks


Snorlax

A Ranks

A+

Tauros
Chansey
Zapdos
Alakazam


A

Golem
Rhydon
Slowbro
Lapras

A-

Jynx
Articuno
Starmie

B ranks

B+

Gengar
Machamp
Exeggutor

B

Moltres
Cloyster
 
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#31
Generation II by TehPazzaaaMan


Banlist: Self-KO Clause, OHKO Moves, Evasion, Perish Song, Sleep moves, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Mewtwo, Mew

Rules: No team Preview. Bring 1 Pokemon.

Viability Rankings (Alpha):

S Rank

Snorlax

A Ranks

A+ Rank

Exeggutor
Cloyster
Gengar
Miltank
Nidoking
Marowak

A Rank

Vaporeon
Suicune
Skarmory
Starmie
Tauros


A- RANK

Steelix
Tyranitar
Clefable
Dragonite

B ranks

B+

Blissey
Espeon
Jolteon
Porygon2
Quagsire
Rhydon
Alakazam
Tentacruel

C ranks

C+ Rank

Charizard
Muk
 
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#34
Generation II by TehPazzaaaMan


Banlist: OHKO Moves, Evasion, Perish Song, Sleep moves, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Mewtwo, Mew

Rules: No team Preview. Bring 1 Pokemon.

Viability Rankings (Alpha):

S Rank

Snorlax

A Ranks

A+ Rank

Exeggutor
Cloyster
Gengar
Miltank
Nidoking
Marowak

A RANK

Vaporeon
Suicune

Skarmory

Starmie

Tauros


A- RANK

Steelix
Tyranitar
Clefable

Dragonite

B ranks

B+

Blissey

Charizard

Espeon

Jolteon

Muk

Porygon2

Quagsire

Rhydon

Alakazam

Tentacruel
omg thats me!!
 
#37
Generation IV by Marowhacker


Banlist: Self-KO Clause, OHKO Moves, Evasion, Swagger, GEN IV OU Banlist, Soul Dew.
Unbans: Latios, Latias, Wobbuffet, Wynaut

Rules: No team Preview. Bring 1 Pokemon

Viability Rankings (Alpha):

S ranks


S Rank

Infernape

A ranks

A+ Rank

Weavile
Heatran
Snorlax
Porygon-Z


A Rank

Gengar
Tyranitar
Celebi
Starmie


A- Rank

Empoleon
Dusknoir
Bronzong
Rhyperior


B+ Rank

Scizor
Vaporeon
Gyarados


B Rank

Regirock
Abomasnow
Metagross
Latias
Latios
 
#39
Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with that mechanic. Do you have a replay exhibiting the issue?
The issue isn't an incorrect behavior. It's just that in past generations, the user of explosion wins if both pokemon faint; the "issue" is that because of this explosion is rather broken, so they want a clause/ban.
 
#40
Hey, everyone! First off, I wanna say how excited I am for 1v1 Classics! It warms my heart to see the project I led and participated in a whole lot already attracting a big enough following to get it's own tour! I have no doubt it will be a lot of fun. I am particularly interested in seeing what 1v1's lead players can come up with, and how their choices will shift the metagames. It'll be more than worth the 4 month wait.

Second of all, I would like to bring to your attention some things across the gens that don't look so hot. And by that, I mean they are borked, pls ban:

howtouse.png

Gen 1: Toxic + Leech Seed
For the unaware, in Gen 1, there was a bug which would cause Leech Seed and Toxic to stack, and their damage to multiply with each consecutive turn. Now, this sounds broken already, but you see, Toxic also reverted back to normal Poison if you switched out. Leech Seed also went away with switching. In other words, the effect of this combo is nullified by an ability that you do not have in 1v1. Remember: Exeggutor is a fine Pokemon with good bulk and a good typing for the time up it's sleeve, so this could get rather... unsavory if it isn't banned. Now this isn't super critical, just kinda bad and gay. After all, only two fully evolved mons get it, and there are things like Tauros and Ice types that can muscle through. Also, Substitute kinda dicks this strat too. But the next thing is worthy of note.


howtouse.gif
how.gif

Gen 2: Curse
If you know the slightest thing about Gen 2's competitive scene, you've heard the horror stories about Curse stall wars. Except in 1v1, Curse has even less counterplay than in regular 6v6 due to not being able to be phased or having a full party. The only things that can beat Snorlax, for instance, are Machamp, Growl/Charm PP Stall, and hax such as Thunder from Zapdos and Raikou. Snorlax isn't the only Curse user: You also have things such as Machamp, Miltank, Skarmory and Steelix who can use the move with just as much success. Is this the kind of meta you want? I didn't think so. Please, for the good of this format, I decree that we eliminate Curse from Gen 2.

Now for some quick VR suggestions!

Gen 1


Slowbro: A ---> A+
Tobybro is so freaking good. Maybe a little too good. But I digress. It deserves a rank up, no doubt about it.


Jolteon: Unranked ---> B+/A-
Thunderbolt critting past stuff like Lapras and Slowbro is definitely a cool novelty worthy of some sort of rank.


Gengar: B+ ---> B
Without sleep, it's honestly not that great. Normal types like Tauros can just take it out with EQ most of the time. It can still sort of check it if doesn't have that move, I guess. Lack of STAB seriously hurts it.


Gen 2


Gengar: A+ ---> B+ or below
Sleep isn't a good enough niche anymore to where it deserves A, especially with the low accuracy of Hypnosis.


Exeggutor: A+ ---> B or below
Self-KO Clause really hurts it's viability. Nidoking is simply a better sleep-based bulky attacker overall.


Tauros: A ---> B or B+
I seriously over-hyped this thing. We all overhyped Berserk Gene in general, honestly.


Ursaring: Unranked ---> B+
130 Attack STAB Hyper Beam's gotta count for something, right?

Gen 4


Latios/Latias: B ---> B+/A-
Upon further testing, these two are better than I thought.

Also urkerab pls add gen 4 1v1 to rom k thx

Also DEG pls add gen 5 resources to this forum k thx
 
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#44
With Gen 6 BH becoming Leader's Choice for the month...

I will start out with my Gen 6 team that I used the most in the ladder.
I was a nub back then and it is up to you to believe it or not, but I have experienced significant growth as a player while clashing with opponents around 1600-1700. Also I was neither the best player nor the best teambuilder so bare with what I have here.

  • Mega Garchomp did great job harassing fat teams while functioning as Shedinja trapper.
  • Shell Smash Kyurem-B with Sacred Fire discouraged Imposter and Steel-types from switching in, while Lum Berry was there to set up on weakened Imposter in emergency while blocking random Spore / Dark Void. King's Shield invalidated revenge killing after the boost.
  • Flash Fire Aegislash, if I remember correctly, did excellent job handling -ate and most Contrary users thanks to absence of Moongeist Beam.
  • Magic Bounce MMX surprised a lot of faster threats who attempt to set up using Spore or walls that try setting hazards on it. Expert Belt OHKO'd all MMY variants with Sucker Punch and this allowed me to invalidate all MMY setups without stapling Prankster Registeel.
  • Poison Heal Gyarados was much better back in Gen 6 due to lack of Core Enforcer and less viability of Mega Audino. Knock Off support was already enough to pressure most teams and Shift Gear let it sweep after -ate users have been taken out.
  • Poison Heal Giratina, while not fully being a check, was a decent answer to PH Regigigas which would otherwise threaten my team, and was p much a glue 'mon to take chip damage or mediocre attacks. I could probably get better 'mon to make my team less weaker to -ate but before I came up with a better wall that checks both -ate and Regigigas, the Gen 6 reached its end.
Good old memories. Feel free to share yours too.
 
#47
How is repeating yourself supposed to be helpful?
In later gens, using explosion and KOing the other pokemon will make you lose. In gen 1, this will make the pokemon that uses explosion win. We don't like this cause it's cheap and bad. The interaction itself is "right" but it's just uncompetitive and unfun.
 
#48
Since Gen VI BH is coming back, can the suspect discussion on -ates be revisited? I ask since we never got a final suspect on banning them outright due to the release of Gen VII and there seemed to be a lot of consensus on suspecting them, if not outright banning them, from what I can glean from the Gen VI suspect discussion's last days before talks about Gen VII's initial ban list.
 
#49
he's saying that explosion and self destruct should be banned
Just so everyone knows, the problem was that the coding for Gen 2 is very confusing. Although the basic code runs the same way as it does for later generations, when you faint from damage, there's a special extra tweak which makes you faint first, even though another Pokèmon has already self-destructed. (Gen 1 turned out to be reasonably straightforward - the code that handles Explosion and Self Destruct in Gen 1 was specifically changed to faint the user after the target.) The bans will take effect on ROM when I next restart the validator.
 
#50
Since DEG has been taking his sweet, merry time posting Gens 3 and 5 (which have been finished for a week now by the way), I'm gonna take it upon myself to put those down.

Gen 3


Managers: Whammerist


How to play:

In order to play Gen 3 1v1, you just need to bring 1 mon. That’s it. 1.

Then fight until someone dies.


Banlist:

OHKO Moves, Evasion Moves, Swagger, Explosion/Self-Destruct


Viability rankings:


S Rank

Salamence


A+ Rank

Snorlax
Gyarados
Flygon
Tyranitar
Metagross

A Rank

Heracross
Celebi
Jirachi

Gengar
Suicune
Milotic


A- Rank

Raikou
Regice
Zapdos
Swampert


B+ Rank

Blissey
Porygon2
Starmie
Aerodactyl