Battle Maison Discussion & Records

NoCheese

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So the final tally by my name should read 1,267 and an asterisk at 1,268, if you don't feel I've abused that privilege, lol.
(edited to just address my thoughts on the asterisk issue. Validity was never a concern.)

While it's not the best to leave an asterisk up indefinitely by not posting after a loss, since other players should know if they're chasing a moving target or not, it's rather moot now that you've surpassed that win total. Plus, we all deserve some time to digest things before writing up a summary of a loss, so in all situations, some delay (even with an asterisk) is completely understandable.

On the loss itself, Anastasia is a real pain in multiple formats, not just singles. My horrid play and her Mr. Mime3 ruined my second triples run at 962, and that close to 1000, I was pretty irritated, and took a fairly long hiatus before returning to triples again. The combination of both set 3 and 4 pokes and the fact that she's a "mixed" Trick Roomer with both slow and fast Pokemon makes her my least liked opponent for my Tailwind triples team.

On a lighter note, your picture shows 1269 active wins, not 1268. Unless you really prefer the humor of your asterisked active streak appearing as just one win longer than your completed one, I'm entering it at its full documented value of 1269 current wins.
 
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turskain

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Jumpman16, I thought you'd been taking a break from Singles and focusing on Triples for the moment. I'm a little disappointed that you lost in "just" the 1200s, since I was expecting something in the range of 2000+ wins from you. But I'm glad to see you're already back on track to legendary streak numbers with a second attempt.

I'm a little surprised you haven't tussled with Hex Maniac Anastasia yet since she tends to be a consistent fun-generator from my experience. Then again, Suicune does smash most of what Hex Maniacs have to offer all by itself, so being able to ignore it makes sense.

Edit: to actually comment on the loss - using Protect on Gliscor to stall Ice Punch PP alongside Suicune switches costs a lot of PP and Suicune got frozen anyway, so in hindsight valuable Protect PP could've maybe been preserved by skipping the Protect and going straight to Suicune. Except HJK deals tons of damage even when resisted, so that's not a good idea. For random AI moves, I'd be more afraid of the AI randomly using Ice Punch on Suicune than a random HJK on Gliscor - I lost a battle with Empoleon/Gliscor when Regice used Ice Beam on Empoleon to nail the Gliscor switch-in instead of going for Thunderbolt. That's the problem with switch stalling Ice moves - with the freeze risk and the random Ice OHKO risk when switching in Gliscor, I think that going for the switch stall play over risking an Icy Wind miss was a mistake in this case. With Leftovers recovery (your calc has Sandstorm factored in and no Leftovers for some reason?), HJK has a 2.3% chance to 2HKO, so even with a miss you would get two shots at Icy Wind, barring a crit.




Speaking of invincible teams, Triples Lukeninja probably is one and might remain one forever even if the streak is lost, as it currently has a flawless 3303-win record and isn't in active service. I know that if I eventually lose in Triples with a different team, it's going to be to something that Lucario/Greninja would've had no problems against - not just because of the "grass is always greener on the other team" effect, but that team is just better even if Gardevoir can also smite pretty hard. It seems silly to talk of teams being a lot stronger than others when many are making 1000+ in Triples (including the two I've been currently using if we add them up), but Triples Lukeninja is a cut above everything else I have produced.




On the topic of covered "covered up losses", I have plenty of uninteresting ones prior to battle 40 featuring sets never seen after that mark in every mode with many teams, a loss at battle 70 to some truly baffling misplays with Cloyster/Gliscor/Greninja, and many more - if I lose early to something like "not using Sucker Punch", I generally don't post it and just fire up the next streak. The teams I don't have "covered up" losses with are the three teams I've used in the ongoing Triples streak (which all have a 100% win rate so far), and Nite/Aegi/Ninja V2 whose sole loss is battle #1011 (to misplays), and I suppose Klefki/Dragonite/Gengar/MegaKhan which broke #1 on the first attempt and lost due to a series of plays that make Multi AI partners look competent. The Multis streak with Noivern/Skarmory3/Aegislash/Golem3 also got the trophy on the first attempt after switching to Aegislash, so I guess that one counts as well, heh. And Lukeninja for Doubles only has the one loss to misplays. Wait a minute, that's five teams that don't have "covered up" losses, so...

The most succesful teams I've used in all five modes have had all of their losses posted, and all of them have only lost one battle (or none for the ongoing Triples teams so far) which was the streak-ending one, and all of the losses were due to misplays. By extension, all of the five streaks were accomplished on the very first streak attempt with that team.

Which is pretty neat, I suppose. The teams didn't pop out of nowhere, though, all of them are products of a development/learning process with many incremental improvements to the respective team concepts along the way - if we counted prior iterations and their losses, the numbers would look quite different.




I don't care much about "covered up losses", though, if you lose to dumb misplays then you lose and try again, that's how battle facilities go and all streaks and teams are going to face that loss sooner or later, and if you try multiple times then you will lose multiple times. Absolutely ridiculous hax and losses revealing actual flaws in the team are very interesting, but the average "click wrong move, file in your battle video at the left terminal" loss doesn't tend to be that interesting aside from the final streak number that it yields. Don't get me wrong, insight into the plays that went on in the loss and "what-ifs" are always good stuff, but the loss by itself always tends to be a bit inglorious in most cases.

Edit: to repeat myself and summarize this: Battle facilities are about racking up wins, not measuring the number of losses on the way there, so their exact amount (or lack thereof) is not very important in the long streak. That's not to say losses should be ignored outright - losing can expose flaws in a team nicely, which can help develop it further. But the act of losing and how many times it happens is not particularly relevant to the end result.
 
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Hi, I'm sorry I really don't know how to do this so I'm asking for help.I currently have a 505 super singles win streak ,battle video#505-S4LG-WWWW-WWWA-YCD8. I don't know how to post it.Can one of you guys please help? Thank-you
 

NoCheese

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Hi, I'm sorry I really don't know how to do this so I'm asking for help.I currently have a 505 super singles win streak ,battle video#505-S4LG-WWWW-WWWA-YCD8. I don't know how to post it.Can one of you guys please help? Thank-you
Welcome! You won't be eligible for the leaderboard until you either lose or reach 1000 wins, but you're in the right place for posting your team. A description of the team, its members, movesets, and strategy (which you have not yet provided) and a proof video code (which you've given), posted here, are all that are required, but of course, more information is appreciated, as it spurs discussion and can be useful for others looking to build or improve a Maison team. Click on some of the links to streaks already on the leaderboard (the first post of this thread) to see the sorts of things people usually put in their team discussions. There's no formal style requirement, but this can give you an idea of the sorts of things people like to share and discuss about successful teams.
 

cant say

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psuedo edit: I got sniped by NoCheese mid-write up but that isn't going to stop me!

Hi, I'm sorry I really don't know how to do this so I'm asking for help.I currently have a 505 super singles win streak ,battle video#505-S4LG-WWWW-WWWA-YCD8. I don't know how to post it.Can one of you guys please help? Thank-you
You're in the right place for this! Ongoing streaks are not eligible (unless they break 1000 iirc) so I would wait until you've lost to actually post. Have a look through some of the posts people have made for their streaks to give you an idea of what they are like, usually you just list your team members with their moves / EV spreads etc. with a description of how each one works and how you played with them. Providing the battle video code (which you've done) is usually enough proof but sometimes people like to also post a screenshot. You're battle video code is showing up as a Skype number so I would take out the # and 505 from the start as that's what's confusing the internet haha (maybe something like 'Battle 505: S4LG-WWWW-WWWA-YCD8'). I just wanted to point out that you seemt o be using an identical team to NoCheese's 611 streak, if you got the inspiration from his team it would be nice to give him a shoutout when you eventually post. Anyway, good luck with the streak!
 
Thanks I've used truant durant scence the battle train.I saw NoCheese's streak but our durant has a few differences.Which I will post.I'm trying to get to 1000 before ORAS. Thanks again.
 

cant say

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Thanks I've used truant durant scence the battle train.I saw NoCheese's streak but our durant has a few differences.Which I will post.I'm trying to get to 1000 before ORAS. Thanks again.
I'm sorry the battle subway!
Since you're new I thought I should point out that you can edit your posts (bottom left of your post, next to the timestamp). Double posting clutters the thread. I look forward to seeing your Durant set and whatever streak you get to!

ps: Welcome to Smogon :)
 

Jumpman16

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(edited to just address my thoughts on the asterisk issue. Validity was never a concern.)

While it's not the best to leave an asterisk up indefinitely by not posting after a loss, since other players should know if they're chasing a moving target or not, it's rather moot now that you've surpassed that win total. Plus, we all deserve some time to digest things before writing up a summary of a loss, so in all situations, some delay (even with an asterisk) is completely understandable.
It's kind of moot, sure...what I'm saying is that it's entirely possible for me to have been nowhere near 1250 for a good seven weeks, and that's kind of a dick thing to do to anyone who would think of chasing you. I guess in a roundabout way, if I'm going to even tell you all that I lost, I'm not enough of a dick to have not said anything. If I had posted nothing whatsoever (easy to do), then yes, for all intents and purposes, it WOULD be moot, cause no one but me would have known that I lost and it would still be a fact that I'm at over 1,250 with an active streak two months after I last updated you all with 1,250, so there's that. By this token I had no problem being upfront with what really happened, which is still kind of moot like I said.

Digesting before writing up a loss always results in some binge stuffing first on some revenge grinding for me. My thought process is always "fuck this game I'm going to spam as many battles up as I can in rebuilding my streak before even thinking of stopping". And with how that last battle played out, you can see that the writeup was non-trivial, unlike losing with Team Suizorus to lead Hurrrrrrnadus or something, so yeah, I'm not gonna make that post yet when I'd rather spend my effort getting at least back to like 200. At that point, it's like, "okay if I can get back to 500 or maybe 600 without close calls, then maybe I can get to like 700 or 800 and not really have to post just yet..." And that's exactly what happened, thankfully, to the point where I was genuinely not even worried about losing and wanted to try Triples.

On the loss itself, Anastasia is a real pain in multiple formats, not just singles. My horrid play and her Mr. Mime3 ruined my second triples run at 962, and that close to 1000, I was pretty irritated, and took a fairly long hiatus before returning to triples again. The combination of both set 3 and 4 pokes and the fact that she's a "mixed" Trick Roomer with both slow and fast Pokemon makes her my least liked opponent for my Tailwind triples team.
Yeah, I'm really surprised she never distinguished herself from the others all the time I played, but it's because, like I mentioned, Haxorus and Kanga don't really change their actions. Gardevoir4 always warranted a switch to Scizor using Team Suizorus and Kanga outspeed Gardy4 pre-ME and kills. I *think* I took a Focus Blast once from Gardy3 and realized I was facing Anastasia but I didn't care cause she brought out like Starmie and Zam to end it. I always switched out Haxorus on any Hex Maniac's Gardy too, and Haxorus *may have* taken an Ice Punch from Cham3, but that only has a 1/32 chance of killing (1/16 then 1/2 of it being Pure Power), and Haxorus always had to Outrage any Cham anyway (and always OHKOed). I guess I'm glad that this situation of "random Hex Maniac actually posing a threat" presented itself after 1,174 and not before, lol. Even then, the only thing I lose to if I'd've assumed a set 4 only trainer is probably Pure Power Medicham3 if it hits with HJK (22.5% chance), and as we can see, it IS possible to win despite that.

On a lighter note, your picture shows 1269 active wins, not 1268. Unless you really prefer the humor of your asterisked active streak appearing as just one win longer than your completed one, I'm entering it at its full documented value of 1269 current wins.
Yeah it's more accurate the way you have it, I wasn't sure which battle I ended on so I recorded both.

Jumpman16, I thought you'd been taking a break from Singles and focusing on Triples for the moment. I'm a little disappointed that you lost in "just" the 1200s, since I was expecting something in the range of 2000+ wins from you. But I'm glad to see you're already back on track to legendary streak numbers with a second attempt.

I'm a little surprised you haven't tussled with Hex Maniac Anastasia yet since she tends to be a consistent fun-generator from my experience. Then again, Suicune does smash most of what Hex Maniacs have to offer all by itself, so being able to ignore it makes sense.
Yeah, Scizor never gave any shits and Kanga generally can still PuP or just Sucker Punch everything that's Set 3 or 4 so I never really had to care that much. Not that I didn't make note of names when I saw them, but it would be like "Hex Maniac Anastasia sent out Starmie/Gengar/Slowbro/Alakazam!" and I'd mentally yawn and Sucker Punch or PuP regardless of Set 3 or 4.

I was indeed focusing on Triples, until my DS fell out of my pocket in the bathroom at 287, lol. That kind of deflated me a little but it was just two weeks ago so whatever. Not counting that "loss" and the misclick/trainer oversight, I can say I've won close to 3,000 battles in a row in the Maison in any format, which is cool (especially considering Singles is objectively much harder than Triples).

Edit: to actually comment on the loss - using Protect on Gliscor to stall Ice Punch PP alongside Suicune switches costs a lot of PP and Suicune got frozen anyway, so in hindsight valuable Protect PP could've maybe been preserved by skipping the Protect and going straight to Suicune. Except HJK deals tons of damage even when resisted, so that's not a good idea. For random AI moves, I'd be more afraid of the AI randomly using Ice Punch on Suicune than a random HJK on Gliscor - I lost a battle with Empoleon/Gliscor when Regice used Ice Beam on Empoleon to nail the Gliscor switch-in instead of going for Thunderbolt. That's the problem with switch stalling Ice moves - with the freeze risk and the random Ice OHKO risk when switching in Gliscor, I think that going for the switch stall play over risking an Icy Wind miss was a mistake in this case. With Leftovers recovery (your calc has Sandstorm factored in and no Leftovers for some reason?), HJK has a 2.3% chance to 2HKO, so even with a miss you would get two shots at Icy Wind, barring a crit.
Yeah, Medicham does 31-36% with HJK to Gliscor, and not using Protect means Suicune has to take eight Ice Punches instead of Five when accounting for Pressure. The AI has yet to randomly use "Ice move" on me though when switchstalling, not one that was too boggling anyway. Regice did use Icy Wind on Gliscor once, but it only does 60-73% and I'm pretty sure I'd Toxiced it before starting my Switchstall, plus you can understand why it aimed Icy Wind at Suicune instead of using TB.

Switchstall vs Icy Wind on Medicham came down to "ok, what do I do even if Suicune hits with Icy Wind? Stall Medicham out of literally everything?" It has 15 IP PP to stall, plus 15 ZH PP (and ZH does 38-45%), then HJK is no slouch as mentioned (breaks Sub every time) even though half the time Cham does 50% to itself when I Protect. Am I switching to Gliscor after IW hits or staying in with Cune? I "have to" switch since Cune can't 2HKO with Scald and HJK does too much to Rest Pressure Stall, right. And when I'm stalling it out completely with Gliscor, with just 32 stalling PP between Sub and Toxic, that's a losing proposition.

If I stay in, Suicune is 2HKOed by anything Cham3 uses after hitting with HJK (it's not using Bullet Punch), so I'd essentially be sacrificing Cune early with 15 IP PP left to stall out with Gliscor. And after that's done, I *still* have to kill it down 1-2—I'd want to use Toxic of course, to ensure I have a Sub against mystery third poke, and go from there, but I can't keep a Sub up against a Medicham I'm now faster than. I supposed I could have used Icy Wind then gone straight to Gliscor, stall out the 15 IP PP, then 2HKO with EQ having a 55% HP Cune waiting in the wings, but if I were smart enough to EQing after it's out of IP PP then I would have won anyway lol (using EQ after it missed that HJK would have won me the battle etc).

Icy Wind then Scalding twice is probably the best play, especially with Burn and CH chances. I do 129 HP min with those three attacks to Cham's 135HP...but as I said, I was certain HJK 2HKOed often enough to make this a questionable strategy.

I don't care much about "covered up losses", though, if you lose to dumb misplays then you lose and try again, that's how battle facilities go and all streaks and teams are going to face that loss sooner or later, and if you try multiple times then you will lose multiple times. Absolutely ridiculous hax and losses revealing actual flaws in the team are very interesting, but the average "click wrong move, file in your battle video at the left terminal" loss doesn't tend to be that interesting aside from the final streak number that it yields. Don't get me wrong, insight into the plays that went on in the loss and "what-ifs" are always good stuff, but the loss by itself always tends to be a bit inglorious in most cases.

Edit: to repeat myself and summarize this: Battle facilities are about racking up wins, not measuring the number of losses on the way there, so their exact amount (or lack thereof) is not very important in the long streak. That's not to say losses should be ignored outright - losing can expose flaws in a team nicely, which can help develop it further. But the act of losing and how many times it happens is not particularly relevant to the end result.
In this case, the only issue was the lack of forthrightness behind the currency of my ongoing streak. Before Kangliscune I lost a bunch of times with Suizorus while learning how to use it best (read: don't face lead Hurrrrrnadus, what a "strategy" huh)
 
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Thank you, tradition of not applying PP Ups to any attacks used by battle facility enemies.

turskain, you showed a bit of interest in my methods and questioned the logic behind some of my moveset decisions, and I had just experienced an exact sort of scenario play out as envisioned when a set was coined:

Specifically, my TR Setter Jellicent knowing Spite. While there had been multiple occasions in the past where an ally Protected against an extremely likely Focus Blast/Hydro Pump/etc and Jellicent permanently squelched the threat the following turn, during this particular battle I'm certain I would have lost without it, thanks in part due to some hax from the AI.

Jellicent/M-Gyarados/Slowking/Tyranitar/Magnezone/Aurorus versus Aromatisse/Kangaskhan/Abomasnow/Hariyama/Spiritomb/Unfezant, Set 3, belonging to a male Tourist. If you guessed that Hariyama was the primary antagonist, you'd be right. Since giving a turn-by-turn is rather unnecessary (while it was a challenging battle, the word count would be grossly disproportionate to fucks given) I'll just explain that Spiritomb had been a supreme asshole and outsped my Aurorus and Magnezone, Swaggering both and rendering it potentially unable to kill Hariyama in time. Life Orb Nature Power will do the job (confirmed Guts) but Hariyama has more than enough HP to survive anything Jellicent can do to it; Magnezone is on the opposite end of the field and may only target Spiritomb. With at least 70% of its HP, Hariyama can't be slain by Water Spout (at half power either way) before taking its turn, even with the drop from the first Close Combat.

Lo and behold, Aurorus smacks itself, but Jellicent successfully used Spite, and just like that, a wasted enemy turn. Jellicent could have eventually finished off Hariyama, but without Spite, Aurorus would have been slain. There were a bunch of other factors that would have allowed either Hariyama or Spiritomb to mop up, especially if Spiritomb managed to confuse Tyranitar (who would be forced to replace Aurorus) and force it to share the same fate. By the battle's end, Spiritomb had sat on +2 thanks to Psych Up and, while it would have required at least three Shadow Sneaks to kill Maggy, TR would have worn off by the time auto-center took effect, and Earthquake would have easily finished it. Admittedly I'm overanalyzing at this point and it's quite possible there were some sequences of turns I could have taken to mitigate the need for Spite, but at that moment it was easily my safest option. <_<

If nothing else, bulky Jellicent can't harm for shit without Water Spout, so a support move more reliable than Will-O was ideal =P
 
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turskain

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Jumpman16, going to Gliscor after Icy Wind, stalling IP, and then KOing with EQ would be the best play here in my opinion, since both Cune and Gliscor survive and Cune stays at 50% in that case; with Icy Wind + Scald + Scald, that 2.3% chance to 2HKO on top of the chance to crit starts looking scary, and even if it works you end up with a very low-HP Cune that won't survive a hit from something like Starmie or Froslass afterwards. Jolly Gliscor (which I'm used to) outspeeds all Medicham already and goes for Sub/Protect stall right off the bat, so Icy Wind just restores the status quo I've come to expect from Gliscor, which is "beating everything that's slower than it" assuming it has enough PP to stall out Ice/Water attacks (and isn't getting Quick Clawed, Taunted, or otherwise badly touched).




ReptoAbysmal, a bit of a late comment on Hex Maniac Mara's Balls of Steel: I just saw double Iron Ball from her in Triples (with a new team in service). Her team had Cofagrigus and Reuniclus, but she had both Iron Ball Conkeldurr and Iron Ball Dusknoir.

I'm not familiar with battle 1-40 threats, other than that I lose to them all the time. Swagger Spiritomb (like all Swagger/Confuse Ray users) sounds like hell, and I'm glad it doesn't appear past battle 40.

In the Jellicent situation you describe, would it have been possible to use Shift to rotate Jellicent into Close Combat? That'd have the same effect (for the turn) without actually requiring the move in a lot of cases with Jellicient's immunities. The jelly's movepool seems barren enough to make Spite almost look like a reasonable option. Recover to tank through attacks and restore Water Spout's power still looks more attractive from here, though.

You mentioned Synchronoise Flareon before, and I saw it in the spreadsheet - what's the plan with that? Hitting Fire/Fighting-types? I've been wanting to try your style sometime, but the burden of breeding several boxes of terrifying Trick Room threats you'll never use for anything else in the Maison is pretty discouraging.

Also, if you're taking ideas for terrible mons to infest the pool with - Protean Kecleon with its great 40 base Speed! Between Fake Out, Sucker Punch, and even Trick Room for a back-up setter and many more great options, it really seems like the Mat Block Greninja of Trick Room teams.




sb879, I noticed an error in the spreadsheet - Hex Maniac Anastasia seems to be missing from the trainer listing entirely, and the search function doesn't acknowledge her existence, either.
 
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ReptoAbysmal, a bit of a late comment on Hex Maniac Mara's Balls of Steel: I just saw double Iron Ball from her in Triples (with a new team in service). Her team had Cofagrigus and Reuniclus, but she had both Iron Ball Conkeldurr and Iron Ball Dusknoir.

I'm not familiar with battle 1-40 threats, other than that I lose to them all the time. Swagger Spiritomb (like all Swagger/Confuse Ray users) sounds like hell, and I'm glad it doesn't appear past battle 40.

In the Jellicent situation you describe, would it have been possible to use Shift to rotate Jellicent into Close Combat? That'd have the same effect (for the turn) without actually requiring the move in a lot of cases with Jellicient's immunities. The jelly's movepool seems barren enough to make Spite almost look like a reasonable option. Recover to tank through attacks and restore Water Spout's power still looks more attractive from here, though.

You mentioned Synchronoise Flareon before, and I saw it in the spreadsheet - what's the plan with that? Hitting Fire/Fighting-types? I've been wanting to try your style sometime, but the burden of breeding several boxes of terrifying Trick Room threats you'll never use for anything else in the Maison is pretty discouraging.

Also, if you're taking ideas for terrible mons to infest the pool with - Protean Kecleon with its great 40 base Speed! Between Fake Out, Sucker Punch, and even Trick Room for a back-up setter and many more great options, it really seems like the Mat Block Greninja of Trick Room teams.
I wonder if they'll fix that for ORAS's battle facility, or if they're even aware of the problem? Perhaps whatever TR-themed trainer exists won't be so narrow. I'd love to see a three Iron Ball team, but if the game tries to prevent dupes through multiple checks, that might be next to impossible. Even still, that makes another instance of item conflict in spite of Cofagrigus/Reuniclus pairing.

Yes, Shift would have worked for that turn, and I have a pretty bad habit of failing to consider that as an option when a decision is especially risky. That said, Spite has repeatedly come in handy as a permanent countermeasure (since 5PP moves are not uncommon), and shifting does introduce the problem of pulling a poke into a position it can no longer adequately fight from. As for Recover, while you do raise a good point, defensively oriented Jellicent is pitifully weak regardless. The move does have value simply in prolonging Jellicent's life, but as with Slowbro's Heal Pulse over Recover, in my mind the other pokes do 95% of the work, and so I want to put their well-being first. In the majority of battles, once the setter has activated TR, it has no job for the remainder of the battle besides providing just enough support not to be deadweight, if I even keep it in, for that matter.

Indeed, Synchro for your Infernapes and Emboars and the like. Although unlike Spitejelly that move is there only because Flareon learns jack shit. I figured Iron Tail was too redundant with Superpower there (though admittedly it may have more situational uses than Synchronoise, especially if Gravity is in play) and so with such limited options, I went with Quick Attack for mopping and Synchro for some lulz. I actually think I might delete Synchro for Helping Hand.

As for Kecleon, I've repeatedly pored over its options and just can't bring myself to like it. Fake Out is great, and I can think of many ways Skill Swap Protean can be a lot of fun, but unlike say Beheeyem, it more quickly becomes deadweight when Fake Out/SS have already been used. Beheeyem can still kill things after boosting. Having said that, the occasions I considered then rejected Kecleon, my pool was much smaller and had much fewer gimmicks...

Breeding dozens of pokes wasn't that daunting, actually, but that doesn't mean I didn't spend so much time doing it. EV training them was often more annoying, at least anything with attack investment, since someone thougt it'd be funny to give routes frequent downpours. Six generations in, I guess I just look past all the monotony.
 

turskain

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As for Kecleon, I've repeatedly pored over its options and just can't bring myself to like it. Fake Out is great, and I can think of many ways Skill Swap Protean can be a lot of fun, but unlike say Beheeyem, it more quickly becomes deadweight when Fake Out/SS have already been used. Beheeyem can still kill things after boosting. Having said that, the occasions I considered then rejected Kecleon, my pool was much smaller and had much fewer gimmicks...
Skill Swap seems like a gimmick and a good way to make Kecleon useless (doesn't Kecleon also turn into a Psychic-type when using the move before losing Protean, just to make things worse for it after it's used?). More than that, making use of Protean with just the gecko doesn't seem so bad, even if its stats aren't so good. Return deals some decent damage, Shadow Claw covers ghosts and deftly dodges Fighting-type attacks, and a Fighting-type move rounds out its coverage. Once ORAS tutors are out, Knock Off/Low Kick/elemental punches with Expert Belt are also possible options with Protean. It won't make things explode, but it also lacks weaknesses and can get rid of its Fighting-type weakness with a Ghost move, so it shouldn't be that horrible. STAB Iron Ball Fling could also be a small nuke.

At this rate I'm gonna have to start breeding to use Kecleon myself in ORAS, heh.

As for Shift, the Mega Gardevoir team uses Shift somewhat often with Infernape shifting into Steel-types on the right and Garde moving to take Psychic attacks, and Weavile shifting into Gengar and friends while Garde eats a Focus Blast, which has sharpened up my Shift sense considerably. The lack of cross-field moves also makes Shifting a lot more common, since you can't just hit anything from anywhere and positioning matters. I never used Shift much before, but viable situations happened so often with that team that it was impossible to ignore.
 
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I will say that the AI's issues with Protean make it at least somewhat tempting. I'll wait till ORAS to try that out. I'll also run some calcs to see how it can handle neutral hits with an offensive spread. Skill Swap is indeed a gimmick, but I hadn't bothered giving Kecleon any more credit or value as anything but.

In the meantime, I occasionally delight in the ways the AI's inability to plan even one move ahead makes things even easier for me. The 10-round slaughter I'd just finished consisted of Porygon2/M-Aggron/Vaporeon/Dragonite/Togekiss/Aegislash; I fought a Psychic that lead with Dusknoir and used Trick Room on all but one of its turns because of its lack of offense. Shadow Sneak would require a laughable number of uses to kill Maggron and of course does nothing to Porygon, so what else is it to do?

Coincidentally, Uberto decided to send in Trevenant4 when beginning a turn without TR, allowing me to kill it before it could move, and set it back up in time for Alakazam to show itself. It then helpfully SSed, which allowed me to put it in kill range for the following turn, where negative priority would screw it.

More on the lucky side of things, a Battle Girl earlier would have curbstomped me had her backup not been slower than my active team, which failed to activate TR. Much like a problem Jumpman faced previously, lacking a guaranteed OHKO makes the AI chose moves and targets more freely, and Arcanine4's lack of a OHKO on Aggron with Close Combat gave it the option to target P2 instead, and along with a crit Sky Attack from Hawlucha, was able to finish it off. Hawlucha isn't much of a threat to that team, but a Volcarona4 with a Quiver Dance under its belt is, and did significant damage before fainting.

Luckily, with a backup of Chestnaught/Golem/Rhyperior4, the latter two slower than my Togekiss and Aegislash, they stood no chance, though a crit Iron Head from my possessed medieval gear probably kept Rhyperior from taking down at least one of them. Had she been packing an Aerodactyl and Charizard/Barbaracle, I'd have been fucked six ways from Sunday.
 
yeesh, missing an entire trainer (with a unique pokemon set, no less) >_> thanks for catching that turskain . i've added anastasia to the spreadsheet, as well as fixing a minor bug where the 3rd pokemon set 1 in the Search sheet would have its Atk EVs (if any) always displayed. you can find the updated spreadsheets in the links of my original post (though the excel version somehow more than tripled in filesize ?_?).
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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So I primarily use the Maison Pokemon Movesets spreadsheet while I'm maisoning and have a question about one of the items; what is the 'Snowball'? Altaria2, Garchomp2 and Dragonite4 have it listed as their item. I've never seen any of them actually make use of their held item so I haven't been able to figure out exactly what they have...
 
So I primarily use the Maison Pokemon Movesets spreadsheet while I'm maisoning and have a question about one of the items; what is the 'Snowball'? Altaria2, Garchomp2 and Dragonite4 have it listed as their item. I've never seen any of them actually make use of their held item so I haven't been able to figure out exactly what they have...
If the holder is hit by an Ice-type attack, the holder's Attack stat is increased one stage. The item is consumed.
 

Lumari

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is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator Alumnus
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So I primarily use the Maison Pokemon Movesets spreadsheet while I'm maisoning and have a question about one of the items; what is the 'Snowball'? Altaria2, Garchomp2 and Dragonite4 have it listed as their item. I've never seen any of them actually make use of their held item so I haven't been able to figure out exactly what they have...
Consumable item that boosts Attack one stage if hit by an Ice-type move. I've had it trigger once on (Multiscale) Dragonite4, I saw it being triggered and I was like 'tartarsauce, it's Weakness Policy' but fortunately it wasn't lol.
edit: hi eppie n_n
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
If the holder is hit by an Ice-type attack, the holder's Attack stat is increased one stage. The item is consumed.
Consumable item that boosts Attack one stage if hit by an Ice-type move. I've had it trigger once on (Multiscale) Dragonite4, I saw it being triggered and I was like 'tartarsauce, it's Weakness Policy' but fortunately it wasn't lol.
edit: hi eppie n_n
Oh what that's a real item? I legit have never even heard of it, thought it may have been an error or something. Wow little embarrassed
 
Hey,everybody.I don't know if I'm supposed to do this but my super singles streak is now at725!Closing in on a G.Battle video GTKW-WWWW-WWWA-JDFV.If anybody's interested I'll Keep ya posted.

NoCheese Edit: JohnJohn0624 sent me a photo of completing all five trophies as well, which I attach here.
 

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Snowballs are one of those silly background items "dropped" when a specific move is used. The specific background is a mound of snow (go figure) and it's found on the route you ride a Mamoswine. It's not really worth the trouble, though.

And turskain, in the off chance you want to dick around with random team selection without breeding much if anything, do you by chance have a fair amount of Tailwind setters? You certainly have enough pokes with speed investment or enough to get a huge jump from it, and it's often just as broken as Trick Room, albeit also hard countered by that move.
 
I have just lost on Super Multi Battles round 103:

Here is the battle video on how I lost:
SMRW-WWWW-WWW6-GUMN
That super fast Darmanitan from turn 1 really threw me off, and it was all downhill from there :( I was hoping to recover by taking out Kangaskhan with sucker punch, and then beating down the right hand side 1 on 1 - but that didn't work out either, so battle 103 is as far as I got...

I played this Super Multi streak "with a friend" which was actually with myself on one of my extra 3DS systems.

Here is the Team I used and the set up explanation:



Cloyster (Lorelai)
IVs: 31/31/31/0/31/31
EVs: HP 6/Attack 252/Speed 252
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Skill Link
Item: Focus Sash

Attacks:
Icicle Spear
Rock Blast
Razor Shell
Shell Smash

I have Greninja set up a Mat block turn 1 and then have Lorelai here use a shell smash. Focus Sash lets me hang on in most situations when an attack gets through. From there I mostly rely on Icicle Spear to sweep, but will use Rock blast on Fire and Water Type Pokemon when present. Razor Shell is for those pesky Steel type Pokemon in hopes of cutting their defense down while doing damage.



Greninja
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: HP 4/Special Attack 252/Speed 252
Nature: Timid
Ability: Protein
Item: Life Orb

Attacks:
Mat Block
Scald
Grass Knot
Ice Beam

I have this Greninja use a Mat block turn 1 to set up Cloyster's Shell Smash. It also helps me scope out the attack style of the opponent for 1 turn too. It really only fails in fake outs and when a Pokemon is a lot faster than I expected (Like in my losing video) From there I switch between Scald, Ice Beam, and Grass knot as needed to deal effective STAB damage. Scald tends to be my favorite of the 3 for the chance of a burn.



Mega Mawile
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: HP 252/Attack 252/ Special Defense 4
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Huge Power (Intimidate before Mega Stone)
Item: Mawilite

Attacks:
Play Rough
Iron Head
Sucker Punch
Ice Punch

I bring this in when Cloyster falls in battle. I mostly rely on the sucker punch, especially in Trick Room situations - but if Mega Kangaskhan is out I will usually rely on Play Rough to take out any threatening Fighting Types on the field when possible. This Pokemon was a very good back up when matches went awry on me, and needed someone to pick up the slack.



Mega Kangaskhan (Kongaskhan)
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: Attack 252/ Speed 252
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Parental Bond (Scrappy Before Mega Stone)
Item: Kangaskhanite

Attacks:
Fake Out
Return
Sucker Punch
Power Up Punch

Another reliable Back Up for when Greninja goes down. I usually Open with Fake out to earn my partner Pokemon a free strike and do a decent chip of damage too. Sucker Punch came in very handy in Trick Room situations or when I needed to strike right away. Otherwise Power Up punch was handy to heighten the attack stat and create a killer Return sweep for me.

All in all, this was a very fun and fast paced team to work with, and made winning the 50 streak trophy of Super Multi's very easy for me.

I only have 1 more trophy left to win (Super Triples) So I will post back again when I earn that final one, in hopes of joining the prestigious "Trophy Hall of Fame" hopefully someday soon! lol
My friend and I were hoping to try your team here together. Do you think it matters that the Mega's stay with the pokemons you used? My friend wants to use Greninja and Mawile, I couldn't think if an instance when it would work out worse necessarily, but wanted to check with ya'll
 
No records to report as of yet, but I completed my trophies with just a few days to spare! I hate super multi battles.

I didn't save any battle videos, but basically, I had my team, Mega Char Y, pretty standard build, and a SDance Garchomp I rarely had to rely on. AI was scarfed typhlosion and a donphan. Got to battle 50- Chantelaines sent out Landorus and Virizion, never had a chance. Got completely outsped and the whole strategy was ruined. Next time around, I get to battle 50, PRAYING the whole time that they don't use the same members, and I luck out. Thundurus and Cobalion, and I can't remember the two backups. None of them lasted very long. All in all, I am so glad to not have to do multi battles again.
 

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Just completed the maison - 50+ wins in all formats. Just in time for ORAS. I'm a little exhausted.
Super Singles - MKang, Gliscor, Chansey
Super Doubles - Greninja, Mow Rotom, MKang, Conkeldurr (bringing a fake out and stab mach punch off the bench was hugely useful to finish off whatever the first two couldn't)
Super Triples - Greninja, Aron, SDance MGarchomp, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Aegislash (no need to reinvent the wheel)
Super Rotation - SDance Garchomp, Togekiss, Greninja, MKang (struggled with this until i figured out how awesome a SDance Garchomp with a Focus Sash could be. That sash gave me the confidence for several more SDance's. Plus, Togekiss' serene grace made the difference against several teams)
Super Multi - MKang, Togekiss with my friend who had Talonflame and MGyarados.

I'm sure plenty of people feel this way, but Terrakion is the bane of my existence. No poke strikes fear into my heart like that bastard.
 

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Hey everybody!Just an update Super singles streak now at 820! Hopefully I'll break 1000 by Thursday. Battle video RCWG-WWWW-WWWA-K2ML.Thanks. (UPDATE)Comming down the home stretch now at 900! Battle video:6XMG-WWWW-WWWA-KA7R. Thanks.
 
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