Battle Maison Discussion & Records

More details on my freshly-tweaked movesets:

Standard Mega Blaziken and standard Ninetales with Will-O-Wisp lead with HP Ice+Heat Wave Bold Zapdos (252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe) on the right. I will definitely change to Low Kick as soon as possible.

In the back:

Greninja@Expert Belt
standard nature/EVs
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- HP Fire

Scolipede@Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Adamant, 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Protect
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab (was Rock Slide)
- Earthquake

Excadrill@Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
Jolly, 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Shadow Claw (not sure about this...)

NoCheese - many thanks for the add! I absolutely understand about the verification issue, I'm just glad to be on the board at all (it's incredible, seeing all these 4-digit runs).
 
hello maison thread. i've been working on a spreadsheet for maison use for a while now, and since i've finished, i figured i would share it with all of you. it works for both the XY and ORAS versions of the maison.

Open Office
Microsoft Excel

these should open up download prompts. if you only have one of open office/excel and can't open the appropriate file once you've downloaded it, download the other file type, since both open office/excel can open each others' files. if you can't open either, send me a private message or a message on my profile, on any error messages you received, what file you were trying to open, what version of open office/excel you're using, and what OS you're using.


the first sheet is why i started making this in the first place, it just details all the pokemon in the maison. mostly self-explanatory, except that the sets aren't numbered. the first abomasnow set listed would be "Abomasnow1", the second "Abomasnow2", the third "Abomasnow3", and the fourth "Abomasnow4", as you may be used to seeing them in TRE's pastebins. also, EVs are always evenly distributed in the displayed stats.


here's the next sheet, which has what pokemon the trainers use. whatever numbers displayed to the right of the pokemon are what number sets (as detailed above) they can run. so in this screenshot, we can see than bunny is capable of using all 4 sets on whatever pokemon she uses, while mara can only use certain sets (sets 1 and 4 on slowking, for instance). and the bunch of trainers at the bottom can only use set 4 on their pokemon. if there's multiple trainers listed on a single pool of pokemon, then that means all of those trainers draw from that same pool. with the slashed names, the first name is what that trainer is named in XY, and the second is what they are named ORAS. renamed trainers are the only difference the ORAS maison trainers/sets has with its XY counterparts.


and here's the last sheet, which lets you look up to three pokemon at a time, which makes checking sets in the non-singles formats much easier. and if you put a name in the top cell, A1...


only the sets that trainer is actually capable of using are shown. if the trainer is not capable of using one of the entered pokemon, then no sets will be shown. if you want to go back to seeing all 4 sets, delete the trainer name.

if you're playing ORAS, a word of caution- several trainers were renamed. if you come across a situation where you input a name and the pokemon they send out, yet have no sets displayed, then you've stumbled across a renamed trainer not in the spreadsheet. while we have found all trainer renames for those that appear past battle 40 (at which point trainers stop being phased out, essentially the highest level of the maison), renamed trainers that only appear before battle 40 are not included in this spreadsheet, due to the ORAS maison trainer data not being ripped and the difficulty of finding them from observation. long maison streaks continue well past 40, giving ample time to find renamed trainers past battle 40 while also enjoying oneself in playing at the highest maison level and getting a worthy streak. but the renamed trainers who only appear before battle 40 require constant resetting of streaks once battle 40 is reached, which is purely tedious.

i apologize for the inconvenience, but if you do come across one of these renamed trainers not in the spreadsheet, i can at least give you two useful facts that will certainly be true. one, they will not use set 4 pokemon, and two, all their pokemon will have the same set number. so if you determine they are using set 1 braviary and they later send out a snorlax, you can be assured it is a set 1 snorlax.

the data from the pokemon sheet is the old google doc we used to have compared against TRE's ripped pokemon data, and the trainer data is gotten straight from TRE's ripped trainer data. in both cases it's just me pouring over, bluntly, a shitload of data, and while both sheets have been triple-checked, i make no claims of being perfect, so any help in verifying that the data is accurate would be much appreciated. additionally, please let me know of any mistakes you may encounter while using the "Search" sheet.

12/23 ORAS Update:

sadly, there is little to update for ORAS- just a bunch of renamed trainers. on the upside, there is little reason to have separate spreadsheets for XY and ORAS as a result, so this is compatible with XY and ORAS maison. renamed trainers have their new names slashed second on the Trainers sheet.

i also added a new feature:

here we have jai, who can use any of the four maison sets for his pokemon.


now if we type in a move in any of the four cells above each pokemon's moves, it automatically hides any sets that don't contain that move.


you can also filter out sets by hold item (type them in the cells above the hold items), and by combination of moves (and move+item, but that's not shown here).
 
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turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Rolling onwards to 4000 wins in Triples.

Battle video: LJRW-WWWW-WWWA-CX3M - #3805 vs. Latias/Regigigas/Terrakion/Raikou/Zapdos/Thundurus
Battle video: 92WW-WWWW-WWWA-CX39 - #4000 vs. Talonflame/Volcarona/Golem/Chesnaught/Carracosta/Typhlosion



After 3300 wins, Lucario/Greninja got really boring to play. Since I had the record and no one else was close yet, I wasn't too worried about losing anymore, and I ended up changing the team entirely to have a good time trying out some fun stuff. I've swapped the team twice in total now; the new teams are as follows.


Team #3304 - #3820: Greninja/Charizard for Triples V4

Greninja @ Focus Sash ** Zinglon
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 12 HP, 252 SAtk, 244 Spe
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot
-Dark Pulse
-Mat Block

Entei @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Modest
IVs: 31/14/31/30/30/31
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 248 SAtk, 8 SDef, 244 Spe
-Eruption
-Solar Beam
-Hidden Power [Ground]
-Flamethrower

Charizard @ Charizardite ** Plasma Storm
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spe
-Flamethrower
-Solar Beam
-Dragon Pulse
-Protect

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry ** Pulse-Wave
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
IVs: 31/31/31/30/31/30
EVs: 252 HP, 40 SAtk, 216 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Water]
-Dark Pulse
-Protect

Garchomp @ Life Orb ** SuperCarrot
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance
-Protect

Infernape @ Air Balloon ** Starburst
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Fake Out
-Protect
Remove Heliolisk. Eruption in the sun hits hard; a Modest nature is needed to secure KOs on Slowthings and other threats with Solar Beam. Instead of Gengar/Scizor/filler, I opt for Balloon Infernape whose virtues I have preached about; it sweeps very nicely in the Sun after Entei has switched out or gone down while also providing excellent support and having only two weaknesses (Flying and Psychic) with Balloon and Sunny Day. HP Ground on Entei hits Entei3/Heatran4.

The team is stronger than previous Greninja/Charizard iterations, but weaker than Lucario/Greninja. Its biggest weaknesses are the usual things that will fuck over a Choice Scarf lead: Quick Claw, faster opposing Scarf users (most notably Terrakion2, which is a huge threat), and Sucker Punch/Fake Out eating at Entei's Eruption damage. Lati@s1 is terrible, as it may dodge Fake Out with Lax Incense and smoke Chomp (and dodge Dragon Claw too, for that matter).

Entei is quite strong against non-Veterans, but the massive Terrakion2 weakness makes an eventual loss against a particularly nasty Veteran likely. #3805 is a good example of this, with some fancy Shift footwork to come out on top when Terrakion2 goes on a rampage.
The relevant stats to consider:

Entei's base stats
115/115/85/90/75/100

Typhlosion's base stats
78/84/78/109/85/100

Charizard's base stats
78/84/78/109/85/100

Charizard-Y's base stats
78/104/78/159/115/100


Typhlosion and Charizard have identical base stats, especially on their weak physical side, which is bad for AI predictability. Additionally, Typhlosion is KO'd by some important Earthquakes that Entei survives:

252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 44 HP / 4 Def Typhlosion: 162-192 (101.8 - 120.7%)
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Entei: 152-180 (79.5 - 94.2%)

There are others and Entei attracts less fire in general thanks to its bulk, but Donphan4 is probably the most important one out of all of them. With Entei, it is extremely likely to go for Stone Edge on Megazard whenever possible, whereas Typhlosion carries a considerable EQ risk.

Howewer, there is an advantage to Typhlosion - its higher base Special Attack means it doesn't need a Modest nature to secure key KOs, which allows a Timid nature to be used, outspeeding Terrakion2 and Landorus2 - the calcs above are with a Timid 44HP/4Def/248SAtk/212Spe EV spread (hitting 241 Speed with Choice Scarf) with that in mind. When facing Terrakion and Landorus, Timid Typhlosion is the superior choice, as you don't need to switch out on Turn 1 against them. Against "everything else" (outside Typhlosion3/Staraptor2 sitting at 228 Speed), Modest Entei will generally have the advantage.

Another factor is Typhlosion's Hidden Ability, Flash Fire, as Entei's HA is not yet released, and will likely be extremely painful to SR for HP Ground if it ever becomes attainable in ORAS/events. Flash Fire would be useful against opposing Entei3 and random Lava Plumes from the likes of Typhlosion and Heatran (possibly with a Flash Fire boost) and allow for some opportunistic switch-ins if you run something like Scizor in the back, but may also backfire against Trace - the common Porygon24 in particular can Trace Flash Fire, absorbing Eruption and ZardY Flamethrower with it, and slam you with an unavoidable Thunder Wave as a result.



In summary, Typhlosion can use a Timid nature and does better against Scarf Terrakion and Scarf Landorus as a result, and has Flash Fire as a rare situational boon. Entei does better against "everything else", but is limited to Pressure. Both ought to be viable, though I think Entei's greater bulk makes it the better choice in general.

You could also run Timid Entei, but the power loss is notable. It's a tradeoff worth considering, though, since Terrakion2 is a major threat. KOs you may miss include Slowking:

252+ SpA Entei Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slowking: 88-104 (43.5 - 51.4%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slowking: 118-140 (58.4 - 69.3%)

Edit: what am I thinking, Flash Fire Typhlosion isn't released, heh. Let's just predict it'll be released in ORAS in some form and that HA Entei will be either a gigantic PITA to acquire or remain unavailable. The Maison using all HAs rots your brain, I suppose.

Team #3821 - #4000: Mega Gardevoir with Triple Fake Out

Infernape @ Expert Belt ** Starburst
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Fake Out
-Protect

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31/14/31/30/30/31
EVs: 4 HP, 4 Def, 248 SAtk, 252 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Psyshock
-Hidden Power [Ground]
-Protect

Weavile @ Focus Sash ** USP Talon
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Beat Up
-Ice Punch
-Fake Out
-Protect

Hitmontop @ Sitrus Berry ** Wild Ball
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe
-Close Combat
-Sucker Punch
-Fake Out
-Protect

Zapdos @ Life Orb ** WallopBeam
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31/22/30/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Heat Wave
-Protect

Scizor @ Choice Band ** Camanis
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 164 Atk, 4 Def, 44 SDef, 44 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Superpower
-Quick Attack
I was originally planning to run a frontline of Infernape/Mega Salamence/Weavile in ORAS, but I realized that Mega Gardevoir which I'd tried in Doubles (and found very promising) could also fill the role.

Mega Gardevoir has insane special bulk; only Analytic Magnezone4 Flash Cannon, Refrigerator Aurorus4 Hyper Beam, and Gengar4 Sludge Bomb can kill it out of Set4s (plus Victreebel4, but that one will never get a hit on MegaGarde). Physically, it is unimpressive; but that's what Hitmontop and three Fake Out users are for.

Psyshock is preferred over Psychic for hitting things like Volcarona (speaking of goddamn Volcarona, +3 Volcarona4 Bug Buzz has a mere 31.3% chance to OHKO Mega Gardevoir, for an example of just how bulky MegaGarde is). Timid is needed for adequate Speed without Tailwind. HP Ground destroys Heatran and Magnezone, and provides adequate coverage otherwise. Destiny Bond is not worth the moveslot with how hard Gardevoir hits; if you outspeed them, you can just hit them. Shadow Ball is an option to snipe TR setters, but with Fake Out and coverage from the sides, it is unnecessary.

Weavile is given Sash, as Infernape's defensive typing is less dreadful and the monkey makes good use of Expert Belt. Beat Up reaches 91 total base power with this team, which is very close to Knock Off's 97.5. It has several advantages:

1) Not making contact - hitting Volcarona, Raichu, Moltres, and others without fearing Static/Flame Body is extremely valuable
2) Being able to 2HKO - Knock Off is worthless if used twice in a row, whereas Beat Up is able to secure many 2HKOs
3) KOing through Focus Sash - Froslass4, meet Beat Up

On the flip side, it becomes weaker if allies are KO'd or Statused. I think the benefits of Beat Up far outweigh its drawbacks in Triples.

Pressure is the preferred ability, since Pickpocket is very situational and may backfire if you steal a Choice item or something like Flame Orb or Iron Ball. Pressure is nice, reliable, and may even deplete some PP in combination with Zapdos's Pressure once in a blue moon.

Hitmontop and Zapdos are excellent back-ups for Mega Garde, lifted from the Doubles MegaGarde team I was using. Scizor rounds out the bulky back-line with a Steel (immunity to Poison, resistance to Explosion) and doubles down on priority. The EVs are lazily re-used, but there's nothing really wrong with them; you could move SDef EVs elsewhere, but the difference would be pretty small. Choice Band is the item of choice, as Fake Out support is frequent and U-Turn works nicely with mass Fake Out (and the EVs are for Choice Band as well - the Attack cut would be somewhat disastrous and cause many missed KOs on a Metal Coat/Life Orb Scizor).

More specifically, Zapdos resists Steel and does OK against most Steel-types, particularly Scizor and Escavalier. It also resists Flying, which is crucial since MegaGarde is generally OHKO'd by Brave Bird, as is Infernape. Ground immunity is a must, which it also provides. MegaGarde has pretty poor physical defense and fears strong neutral physical attacks - which is where Hitmontop with Intimidate can switch in to take a hit. Scizor is the least common switch option for Gardevoir, but it fills the need when neither Top or Zapdos can get in safely.

Ice Shard and Mach Punch would be cool to have on Weavile and Infernape, respectively; but they suffer from 4MSS and need Protect and IP/CC to secure KOs and handle some lead situations. They both also make great Protect bait with Gardevoir having very few weaknesses.

Hitmontop is amazingly bulky, though vulnerable to crits. More Fake Out never hurts, Close Combat deals good damage, and Sucker Punch provides good priority coverage. While the rest of the tutor moves on the team should be available in ORAS, Sucker Punch looks like it'll remain genIV-exclusive. Which is a shame, since Hitmontop is one of the best Fake Out users in the Maison, and Sucker Punch is essential for it. He is the MVP for the team; MegaVoir needs a versatile back-up support that can take the center in a team like this, and Hitmontop is the single best Pokémon to provide it. Scrafty could be an alternative, but it stacks weaknesses in a bad way and lacks priority to keep up with the rest of the team.



The team doesn't have any cross-field moves, Ground-types, Water-types, Dragon-types, or Mat Block Greninja, for that matter. But who needs those? I've only played 180 battles with it so far, but the team seems extremely strong and much better than the Entei one, and is the "second strongest" Triples team I've used, behind Lucario/Greninja.


Here's to another thousand wins. This streak is getting pretty ridiculous, though.



sb879, the spreadsheet is excellent. Magically cross-referencing trainers and their sets is very useful. Lacking the set numbers that you usually use to idenfify sets is a small annoyance, but it's pretty negligible.
 
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I avoided breeding an Elgyem for the longest time because of its relatively underwhelming stats in relation to its movepool (why no Dazzling Gleam and Aura Sphere? They seem all too suitable for it) but when purging a bunch of garbage I'd happened upon a little one sitting in a box, and checked its IVs on a whim; perfect apart from its nature (apparently during a reject wondertrading session, I was given one.)

And I actually found something I enjoyed doing with it, that being Nasty Plot and Power Swap to particular teammates, using Psychic and Dark Pulse if I actually decided to attack. Fun to use, and like Quagsire I was surprised that I repeatedly led with it and wasn't quickly bitten in the ass. EVd for "bulk" or what little semblance of bulk it could get. 252 HP and 164/92 or something.

But, yesh, I do love unorthodox support pokes, at least when they succeed the way I envisioned them on paper, which Area 51 did indeed.

I took the opportunity to breed some Numels in anticipation of Mega Camerupt, who'll undoubtedly become a star player. I hope Altaria keeps its poor speed so I can utilize one as well. I'm not looking forward to trading everything to OR if need be, since Bank will shaft me on my items.
 

turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I avoided breeding an Elgyem for the longest time because of its relatively underwhelming stats in relation to its movepool (why no Dazzling Gleam and Aura Sphere? They seem all too suitable for it) but when purging a bunch of garbage I'd happened upon a little one sitting in a box, and checked its IVs on a whim; perfect apart from its nature (apparently during a reject wondertrading session, I was given one.)

And I actually found something I enjoyed doing with it, that being Nasty Plot and Power Swap to particular teammates, using Psychic and Dark Pulse if I actually decided to attack. Fun to use, and like Quagsire I was surprised that I repeatedly led with it and wasn't quickly bitten in the ass. EVd for "bulk" or what little semblance of bulk it could get. 252 HP and 164/92 or something.

But, yesh, I do love unorthodox support pokes, at least when they succeed the way I envisioned them on paper, which Area 51 did indeed.

I took the opportunity to breed some Numels in anticipation of Mega Camerupt, who'll undoubtedly become a star player. I hope Altaria keeps its poor speed so I can utilize one as well. I'm not looking forward to trading everything to OR if need be, since Bank will shaft me on my items.
Mega Altaria's base Speed is 80 according to ORAS demo data dumps.

How is Nasty Plot into Power Swap working out? Taking two whole turns to transfer boosts to a teammate seems like it'd take so much time that if you actually managed to pull it off, you were going to win the battle anyway.

Also, I actually watched some of your videos - Razor Claw Machamp with Cross Chop? No Protect on any Pokémon? Dragon Rush Dragonite? It would be nice to know what your full list of Pokémon looks like nowadays.
 

turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Coming soon to Battle Resorts near you in ORAS: a Triples lead gimmick fresh off the presses!


Talonflame
@ Choice Band | Gale Wings | Adamant | 252HP, 252Atk, 4SDef
Brave Bird | Flare Blitz | U-Turn | Tailwind

Meowstic (male) @ Lum Berry / Focus Sash | Prankster | Jolly | 252HP, 172Def, 4SDef, 80Spe
Leer | Fake Out | Helping Hand | Thunder Wave

Sawk @ Choice Scarf | Sturdy | Adamant | 252Atk, 252Spe
Close Combat | Rock Slide | Knock Off | Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch / Reversal



Use Prankster Leer (147 Speed) to increase the damage of physical attacks by 50%, followed by Gale Wings Brave Bird (146 Speed) and Close Combat (205 Speed). Fake Out for distruption, the other two moves are filler; Helping Hand helps with White Herb, Clear Body, etc and boosts a special back-up later in the battle. Other options could be Imprison + Trick Room, screens, or Safeguard.

Talonflame is the fastest, hardest-hitting Choice Band user in town, making it a straightforward pick. Sawk has Sturdy to make running dual Choice items and no Protect on the leads less suicidal.

I'm not sure how viable this is, but it seems fun.
 
Mega Altaria's base Speed is 80 according to ORAS demo data dumps.

How is Nasty Plot into Power Swap working out? Taking two whole turns to transfer boosts to a teammate seems like it'd take so much time that if you actually managed to pull it off, you were going to win the battle anyway.

Also, I actually watched some of your videos - Razor Claw Machamp with Cross Chop? No Protect on any Pokémon? Dragon Rush Dragonite? It would be nice to know what your full list of Pokémon looks like nowadays.
Bummer on M-Altaria, though I have played with Venusaurite which has the same "issue"... it's just a matter of keeping it on the back burner until I feel it's safe. I'll probably mess with it a little bit. Looking at the dump myself, Swampert, Steelix, Slowbro and possibly Sableye will make additions to my TR pool, along with of course Camerupt (BEASTLY stat spread for a Sheer Force abuser.)

NP-PS was actually pretty handy in some battles, particularly when bulkier mons began coming into play. Indeed, it was probably ultimately frivolous since my teams had been handling these kinds of enemies for ages without Beheeyem or any sort of stat-passing save for Weakness Policy Glaceon, but it allowed for some otherwise impossible OHKOs with spread moves. Often when the middle poke was the prime target for the AI, I gave the boosts to the next thing to enter unless Beheeyem had a target it could finish.

I did some mock battles with random replays I hadn't deleted using a Musharna and Exploud to complement it; you can already tell what I had in mind.

One thing to bear in mind, which will also answer one of your other questions- a ton of movesets were made with opportunities in mind, particularly when said poke was not an all-around utilitarian powerhouse like, say, Azumarill, with a primary moveset that is so good that deviating from it is stupid as well as pointless. For some pokes, this led to the creation of alternate sets, where the idea was not so much to resolve an item conflict should it arise, but when certain team rolls paired particular pokes together and gave me the chance to mess with something.

Protect was often just as likely to be a waste of a moveslot as a boon, given the random teammates, so I pretty much only gave it to pokes I very frequently expected to use it. Aggron, Chandelure, Abomasnow, to name a few.

And then you have pokes like Dragonite that I hadn't conceived for any purpose other than Gravity abuse, hence the Dragon Rush. If the opportunity is there, I'm golden; otherwise, I just go with it. When I began doing this in White's Subway, lengthy streaks were not my intent, but playing with the randomizer and seeing if I could strike gold, or make silver out of the shit I was given. I was inspired by a horrendously unfortunate loss I swallowed when using a doubles team that had gotten me very far- Tyranitar, Excadrill, Landorus and Garchomp; the AI had managed to set up Trick Room before dying, and then Mamoswine and Darmanitan appeared, and brutally slaughtered my team. I thought it was one of the worst possible matchups I could have faced after TR had been activated, and even with Protect on my side, it was unsalvageable. I thought it'd be fun to play with that kind of (mis)fortune some more, only turning the tables on the enemy.

So with high-risk fun as my MO, so many sets may appear suboptimal if not batshit insane, but I assure you, when they were coined, I did have something specific in mind (yes, my Flareon does have Synchronoise.)

I love Razor Claw Machamp, and would love Barbaracle more if its typing were of less questionable reliability. Whenever I had the thing (Tough Claws usually took precedence though) I was switching just as often as setting it up.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MQyjrSHbvJ0BkSt4eer10kpYPgNgyrN5LMClGtDPl3E/edit#gid=0

Those are all the pokes I have in my TR pool, though a bunch of potential hold items aren't listed; just the more frequently used ones. Megas and dupe sets are kept in separate boxes. The TR setters are mixed with the flunkies and can pop up in the pack of four that are drawn, but otherwise one is guaranteed to be chosen in its own separate roll.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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So I just finished another feeble attempt at Sharpedo / Aegislash / Hydreigon with a streak of 103. The loss was to Rollerskater Ryker with Altaria4 / Honchkrow3 / Vespiquen3. Altaria hit with Sing on turn 1 so I switched in Aegislash and managed to avoid a couple Sings to set up and take it out. Out comes Honchkrow which threatens with Dark Pulse (a crit can OHKO) so I switch to Hydreigon and chip away at it with Dragon Pulse. Finally Vespiquen comes out so I first switch back to Aegi then to Sharpedo (hoping for a Defend Order on the switch, which it does). This gives me two turns to wake up and take it out with Destiny Bond but unfortunately he stays asleep. I'm not sure who to send in as Hydra's Flamethrower does nothing but I don't want to send in Aegi because it can cop a Confuse Ray while setting up. I went for Hydreigon and Flamethrower puts it around 50% before going down. Aegi comes in, gets confused and kills itself (3 full confusions in a row). Pretty bummed but whatever. In hindsight I should have risked the Dark Pulse crit and King's Shield-ed, then Sacred Sword + Shadow Sneak it, which would have given me a huge chance to beat Vespiquen...

So now I have a couple weeks to play around before ORAS comes out, I was thinking of going back to Multis again. I have an AI with Garchomp (Scarf, Outrage / Earthquake / Fire Fang / Crunch) and Salamence (Yache berry, Draco Meteor / Dragon Rush / Earthquake / Brick Break). I was thinking of pairing them with Scarf-raptor (Brave Bird / Double Edge / Close Combat / U-turn) and Standard Zard-Y. Very ice weak and lead scarfs but could there be any potential in this / this AI? I think Multis are fun to play but out of 90+ friends they are probably the best I have access to... Maybe I can run something else to make it better? Hopefully someone could weigh in here
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
The thing that most worries me about that grouping is that you have three Pokemon that are all weak to mean old Aerodactyl in particular, and Rock-type attacks more generally. Sadly, this is a pretty common issue in AI multis, and not always an easy one to solve. Clearly, with both AI Pokemon using Earthquake, you need an immunity there, but maybe try to replace Staraptor or Charizard with a Levitator, just to lesson the Aerodactly issue? I recognize that the list of good Levitators is short, and some have their own issues (use Latios, for example, and now you have three Dragons and ugly Fairy- and Ice-type weaknesses), but for off-the-top-of-my-head concerns, the Rock-type weakness is my biggest fear.
 

turskain

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is a Community Contributor Alumnus
So I just finished another feeble attempt at Sharpedo / Aegislash / Hydreigon with a streak of 103. The loss was to Rollerskater Ryker with Altaria4 / Honchkrow3 / Vespiquen3. Altaria hit with Sing on turn 1 so I switched in Aegislash and managed to avoid a couple Sings to set up and take it out. Out comes Honchkrow which threatens with Dark Pulse (a crit can OHKO) so I switch to Hydreigon and chip away at it with Dragon Pulse. Finally Vespiquen comes out so I first switch back to Aegi then to Sharpedo (hoping for a Defend Order on the switch, which it does). This gives me two turns to wake up and take it out with Destiny Bond but unfortunately he stays asleep. I'm not sure who to send in as Hydra's Flamethrower does nothing but I don't want to send in Aegi because it can cop a Confuse Ray while setting up. I went for Hydreigon and Flamethrower puts it around 50% before going down. Aegi comes in, gets confused and kills itself (3 full confusions in a row). Pretty bummed but whatever. In hindsight I should have risked the Dark Pulse crit and King's Shield-ed, then Sacred Sword + Shadow Sneak it, which would have given me a huge chance to beat Vespiquen...

So now I have a couple weeks to play around before ORAS comes out, I was thinking of going back to Multis again. I have an AI with Garchomp (Scarf, Outrage / Earthquake / Fire Fang / Crunch) and Salamence (Yache berry, Draco Meteor / Dragon Rush / Earthquake / Brick Break). I was thinking of pairing them with Scarf-raptor (Brave Bird / Double Edge / Close Combat / U-turn) and Standard Zard-Y. Very ice weak and lead scarfs but could there be any potential in this / this AI? I think Multis are fun to play but out of 90+ friends they are probably the best I have access to... Maybe I can run something else to make it better? Hopefully someone could weigh in here
Garchomp3 is terrible because of Outrage, which it prefers over all other options even against Steels and Fairies. It often picks Outrage even if it could score a KO with Earthquake. And once it picks Outrage, the battle turns into a hax fest (even more so than usual with the AI), which is not sustainable for 50 battles. It could be a good pick against the Chatelaines in battle 50 since out of their Pokémon, only Cobalion resists Outrage and the rest will dislike it, including Latios.



Let me tell you a Garchomp3 story from the early 4000s where I thought I was going to lose (battle video not saved, otherwise I would've posted it since it was the closest battle since #3186): Excadrill/Garchomp/Hippowdon was sent out with Sand Stream. Gardevoir Traced Sand Veil, which made be paranoid about missing Fake Out on Chomp and getting Ape KO'd by Scarf EQ, so I protect on Ape and Garde while switching in Top to scout and preserve Weavile's Sash. Chomp3's Outrage hits Hitmontop and crits for the OHKO, then on the next turn its second Outrage crits Zapdos for another KO. It also dodged several hits with Sand Veil, but that didn't matter much since it started self-hitting and stopped getting crits after those first two KOs. Excadrill didn't have Sand Rush and the back-ups were bad (Ferrothorn + Gastrodon, I think?) so I was able to come back, but if Exca had Sand Rush or there were worse things in the back, I would've been seriously screwed as the battle was a 4v6 with those Garchomp crits.

Moral of the story for that Multis team: Garchomp3 is the worst kind of bullshit, and bound to screw you over sooner rather than later. Out of Choice sets available in Multis, it's probably one of the worst because of how god-awful Outrage is despite Choice partners usually being good picks. I'd take the terrible Archeops3/Salamence3 partner from my choices (with 80% accurate Head Smash missing every time) over that Garchomp with an effectively 50% accurate Outrage.

I could be wrong since the sight of Garchomp3 pisses me off, but my faith in it is very, very low. Stacking weaknesses wouldn't be that bad with double Scarf (I ran ScarfChomp with the Archeops3 partner without much trouble, aside from losing horribly to the Chatelaines), but Outrage is truly horrendous.



For the Altaria loss, keeping Sharpedo in against it is a mistake since Set4 is completely walled by Aegislash and Set3 will outspeed and use Sky Attack. Set3 can Dragon Dance on you after the switch-in, but it still deals no damage to Aegislash even with EQ and you can just get +6 and Sneak it.

+3 252 Atk Altaria Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield on a critical hit: 152-180 (91 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

It will "always" Sky Attack Sharpedo since it outspeeds and OHKOes, so it DDing on the switch should not be a possibility and even if it happened, Aegislash probably still sets up barring crits. In such a situation, Aegislash can go for a Sword+Sneak KO at +2 to give Altaria less time to boost if you're worried.
 
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Fun fact I've learned from my Multis trials: Choice Band Haxorus' Earthquake will never KO partner Greninja unless it has three Life Orb recoils. Life Orb Mat Block Greninja could be a good partner to protect Chomp turn 1 then pick things off turn 2 to ensure that Outrage hits what you want it to. In my experience the AI uses Outrage unless there's any sort of ground-weak, then it uses Earthquake.
 
I had enough bad memories with CB Earthquake partners in multis that I refused to pair with any, at least until I'd gotten Zard Y and Rotom-W, my winning pair. Otherwise, so many losses were incurred because the fucking partner decided to kill my own poke, even when EQ was the strategically worst possible move. The AI cannot get enough of the spread moves, especially when they lack any other OHKO options.

The nice thing about Slaking3 was Giga Impact being stronger than 2x Earthquake, making it rarely used, though it was mostly irrelevant since I'd brought two immunities anyway.
 
I think I have stumbled upon a new scientific fact, which I will dub Breloom's Law: whichever Pokemon you choose to Spore will be the one to have the Lum Berry. That said, I managed to get a streak of 118 wins in Super Doubles, just barely enough to get on the list. The team I used was:

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Lonely
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
-Brave Bird
-Tailwind
-Taunt
-Protect




Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
-Spore
-Force Palm
-Bullet Seed
-Protect




Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SAtk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
-Sludge Wave
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
-Protect




Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
-Sucker Punch
-Crunch
-Return
-Fake Out

Video of the loss: WWZW-WWWW-WWWA-GFF8 (At least it was to Suicune and Articuno, my two favourite legends!)
 

turskain

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Flaming Garchomp3 caused temporary brain damage and compelled me to try Super Multi Battles again.

After a few attempts and team changes, I am finally done with that infernal mode - until the streak is lost, anyway, but I don't think it will take too long, unlike with the Triples streak that refuses to die.

The team & AI partner are as follows:





Noivern @ Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Boomburst
-Flamethrower
-Dragon Pulse

Skarmory @ Choice Scarf ** Skarmory3 AI Partner
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Brave Bird
-Night Slash
-Steel Wing
-Rock Slide

Scarf Skarmory is generally not the worst AI partner to have - certainly better than Garchomp3, at the very least. Howewer, Golem is problematic as it is very eager to Explode and also hits your Pokémon with Earthquake. So how can you get away with it? Gengar and Telepathy users are pretty much the only Pokémon that can safely team up with the AI partner's loose cannon, and Gengar just isn't offensive enough to lead off with. Telepathy Noivern with Choice Specs is the strongest, fastest Telepathy user, with an additional boon thanks to the AI partner's Pokémon resisting Boomburst. Noivern's Speed is 1 point higher than Greninja, which is very good and lets it beat all opposing Dragons including Lati@s (barring misses, of course), among other things.

Draco Meteor would usually be unadvisable due to its low accuracy, but Noivern's terrible base Special Attack and the general bullshit that permeates Multis make it a necessary evil. When it hits, it hurts considerably. Boomburst is a powerful field move that allows Noivern to double KO weakened opposition in a 1v2 situation, and hit both enemies to finish off the Brave Bird victim and damage the other Pokémon and generally bombard the field quite nicely in many situations.





Aegislash @ Weakness Policy ** Repulsor
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe
-King's Shield
-Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword

Golem @ Focus Sash ** Golem3 AI Partner
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Explosion
-Autotomize

I originally used the aforementioned Gengar with Focus Sash for both partners to be fully immune to Golem's attacks; howewer, the lack of defensive synergy with Noivern proved too much to handle. I swapped in Aegislash for a pseudo-Dragonite/Aegislash synergy allowing Specs and DM SAtk drops to be reset easily, with Ghost typing to block Explosion and enough bulk to survive even CH Earthquake from Golem and King's Shield. Weakness Policy is the item of choice to maximize the "benefit" of having to sometimes take an allied Earthquake, and it's a decent item otherwise.

The Aegislash used here is an unoptimal 81-Speed variant, picked because of laziness since I haven't bred a Brave Aegislash yet due to lack of necessity and didn't want to take the 79-Speed one to the Move Relearner.

Golem's AI varies from brilliant to terrible, depending on how eager it is to Explode prematurely or try to grab an Autotomize boost while getting double targeted. Aegislash being on the field with it seems to give it some doubts about using Earthquake, which unfortunately (or fortunately, since at least it won't get killed trying to Autotomize) makes it use Explosion at full HP a lot when Aegislash is out. It hits hard, so having it blow up is usually a pretty good trade by the (very low) standards for Multi AI partners.



So should you go seek out an AI Partner with Skarmory3/Golem3 if you want an easy Multis trophy? Probably not, since Golem3 is a loose cannon and Skarmory3 is on the worse side of Scarf users thanks to its crappy movepool and low damage output. But if you find yourself saddled with one, you can take solace in the fact that you might manage to get the trophy using Boomburst Noivern with it.

Battle video and five-trophy post coming up once I lose.
 
I'm currently holding a 50+ Streak in the super singles and was hoping to earn some more BP. The team that got me there was:
Dragonite@ Weakness Policy
Jolly
4 SpDef 252 attack and speed
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Outrage

Kangaskhan@ Kangaskhanite
Adamant
4 HP 252 ATK and Speed
Fake Out
Sucker Punch
Return
Power-up Punch

Rotom-W@ Leftovers
Bold
4 SpAtk, 252 HP and Def
Will-O-Wisp
Thunderbolt
Hydropump
Protect

I was hoping to use a Timid Greninja in place of Rotom, but wasn't sure of the best moveset and item, can someone suggest?

I have one BR and am not willing to retrain one just for the Maison, which is obviously not optimal
 

Lumari

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TFP Leader
I'm currently holding a 50+ Streak in the super singles and was hoping to earn some more BP. The team that got me there was:
Dragonite@ Weakness Policy
Jolly
4 SpDef 252 attack and speed
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Outrage

Kangaskhan@ Kangaskhanite
Adamant
4 HP 252 ATK and Speed
Fake Out
Sucker Punch
Return
Power-up Punch

Rotom-W@ Leftovers
Bold
4 SpAtk, 252 HP and Def
Will-O-Wisp
Thunderbolt
Hydropump
Protect

I was hoping to use a Timid Greninja in place of Rotom, but wasn't sure of the best moveset and item, can someone suggest?

I have one BR and am not willing to retrain one just for the Maison, which is obviously not optimal
The default set for Greninja is Surf / Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Dark Pulse with Life Orb, a Timid nature, and max SpA / max Spe. Of course this can be tweaked depending on a team's specific needs (e.g. Extrasensory over Dark Pulse, a Speed cut for some extra bulk, or Specs over LO like the #3 team on the leaderboards), but if you're just gonna grind for BP instead of a really long streak this standard set should work fine. If I may give you some additional tips: you might wanna use Lum over WP on Dragonite (WP is terrific if it works, but in this place you want something reliable/consistent rather than something situational, and Lum just provides a really valuable safety net against status leads); also, Fake Out and PuP on the same Kanga set is generally utility overkill because that leaves you with only one reliable slaughtering move. Fake Out is more suitable for a cleaner, whereas PuP is more suitable for a (backup) sweeper, and because Greninja is probably gonna take on the cleaner role, I recommend swapping out Fake Out for Earthquake (or Crunch if you prefer that, but I'm pretty strongly convinced myself that Earthquake is the far better move overall because that one allows you to actually hit Rock- and Steel-types, and you've got enough Dark-type moves between Sucker Punch and Greninja's Dark Pulse anyway).

also, 'I am not willing to retrain one just for the Maison, which is obviously not optimal', please don't insult us ok :p

Good luck!
 
So you recommend leading with Dragonite? Great advice, thank you! What is a good way to decide how many DD's I can get away with? Should I always open with 1?

And I meant that more as a compliment my apologies if it wasn't taken as one
 

Lumari

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So you recommend leading with Dragonite? Great advice, thank you! What is a good way to decide how many DD's I can get away with? Should I always open with 1?

And I meant that more as a compliment my apologies if it wasn't taken as one
Yeah, Dragonite is probably the best lead for this team. Dragonite has proven to work really well as a lead anyway (Multiscale+Lum is a pretty terrific combo for ensuring safe setup), and while Khan and Ninja can work as leads also, they require more specific support; Dragonite can take pretty much anything except STAB Ice-type moves and some other really strong SE moves. Generally you should go for just one DD and then attack; against really weak opponents (Dusknoir4, which doesn't have Will-O-Wisp, comes to mind, but there are several more) you can always try squeezing in a second, but you should generally stick to just one unless you're really secure, crit happens, and Dragonite is stupidly powerful with just one DD anyway ;)
 

turskain

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Posting a Super Multi Battle streak of 57 wins.

Team write-up: on this very page
Battle video: U8AW-WWWW-WWWA-GL97 - #58 vs. Talonflame/Heatran/Slowking/Suicune

On the deciding turn, Golem opts to Explode on Slowking (~50%) + Heatran (100%) instead of using Earthquake, which seals the loss. To rub it in, Heatran OHKOes Aegislash with a 1v1 CH Lava Plume before it even gets to move. The battle video revealed that Suicune was the last Pokémon, and there was no way I was going to win 1v1 after a Lava Plume hit even without the crit (or a burn, or a Flame Body burn). If Golem had used Earthquake instead of Explosion, Aegislash could probably have beaten Suicune2 - if it's Suicune1 (CroCune), the AI most likely wins if it uses Rest (I beat Suicune1 earlier in the streak with Aegislash + Golem, but it had taken a good amount of prior damage and ate a big Explosion + Sword - if it's at full HP, that's not going to be enough).

I'm glad it's over. Like every other AI Multi team (except for the insane 168-win streak sitting at #1), the nature of the mode ensures that all teams will lose very quickly with no possibility of winning and nothing to be gained. Here's hoping AI Super Multi Battle will not be featured in ORAS.




Triples update: 4500 ongoing wins.

Team writeups:
Lucario/Greninja for Triples (#0001 - #3303, used for 3303 battles in total)
Greninja/Charizard for Triples V4 (#3304 - #3820, used for 517 battles in total)
Mega Gardevoir with Triple Fake Out (#3821 - #4500, used for 680 battles in total)


Battle video: J7KW-WWWW-WWWA-HWG2 - #4500 vs. Magnezone/Toxicroak/Bastiodon/Muk/Gengar/Eelektross

I've continued using the Mega Gardevoir team - it's strong. It's now been 1197 battles since I swapped the team.




With the Multi Battle streak finished, I now have five trophies.
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
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Posting a Super Multi Battle streak of 57 wins.
I'm glad it's over. Like every other AI Multi team (except for the insane 168-win streak sitting at #1), the nature of the mode ensures that all teams will lose very quickly with no possibility of winning and nothing to be gained. Here's hoping AI Super Multi Battle will not be featured in ORAS.
While AI multis can be maddening at times, I do find the almost certain knowledge that one's streak won't last too long kind of liberating. If I start a new streak in any other format, I'm essentially committing myself to many hours of battling. With AI multis, there's not that feeling of "what a long road this might be..." And the Battle Factory was a similarly tough nut to crack (I never ended up getting the gold print), but its difficulty and the potential for bad luck (in its case bad Pokemon options rather than poor AI decisions) gave it a certain charm. If I had to choose one, I'd rather the Factory return in ORAS than AI multis, but multis still has worth, and if multis appear in ORAS I'd be fine going through the struggle for the trophy/print. Ask me again when I lose on battle 50 though...maybe I'll be less sanguine about it then. Actually, I still have unfinished multis work here, too. After a bunch of tries to get the trophy, I left my current multis streak active at 50, and perhaps I should play it out. My team was shaky enough that I don't expect to make it even to 60, but would be nice to have an actual final win count before moving on to ORAS.

Triples update: 4500 ongoing wins.
Impressed as always by your continued triples juggernaut. Seems absurd to speak of another 500 battles in an offhand manner, but I know I'm certainly rooting for a nice round 5000 to cap it off!!!

With the Multi Battle streak finished, I now have five trophies.
Happy to add you to the list. Always been a bit odd having the top overall Maison battler not be in the trophy hall of fame! Your remedying this just before we move on to focusing primarily on ORAS bookends things nicely.

Maison records are updated through here, so please let me know if I've missed anything, folks!
 
I'm doing one last attemt at a good singles streak before ORAS Maison/Tower/whatever comes! Currently on 104 wins, so it's a loong way to go, lol. I've had a few losses when at about 200-400 wins that have pissed me off so much, because the losses almost always come after I don't pay attention (or just lose my patience), and I never seem to learn from it :( Trying one last time :)

I'm currently holding a 50+ Streak in the super singles and was hoping to earn some more BP. The team that got me there was:
Dragonite@ Weakness Policy
Jolly
4 SpDef 252 attack and speed
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Outrage

Kangaskhan@ Kangaskhanite
Adamant
4 HP 252 ATK and Speed
Fake Out
Sucker Punch
Return
Power-up Punch

Rotom-W@ Leftovers
Bold
4 SpAtk, 252 HP and Def
Will-O-Wisp
Thunderbolt
Hydropump
Protect

I was hoping to use a Timid Greninja in place of Rotom, but wasn't sure of the best moveset and item, can someone suggest?

I have one BR and am not willing to retrain one just for the Maison, which is obviously not optimal
I support The Dutch Plumberjack suggestions here. Lum Berry is extremely useful for getting of an attack or a Dragon Dance, and to heal itself from confusion after outrage. Also, in my experience, Fire Punch is not as good as it might seem on paper. I'd replace it with either a different coverage move, or Roost (I haven't tried Roost myself, but others are having great results with it). Jolly nature is an interesting choice, and looking at the speed tier list, I can certainely see some benefits from it! I prefer adamant myself, I guess it comes down to preference and the rest of your team, much like on Kangaskhan's nature choice.

I've used your Kangaskhan set myself, and I missed the immediate power from earthquake... I'd suggest placing it over fake out.

On Greninja, I'd use Scald over Surf too thaw out from freezes (I'll probably switch in against strong ice types that can KO Dragonite), and Dark pulse over Extrasensory because Kanga struggles against ghost (And fighting types as well lol, but at least Kanga can hurt them).

Triples update: 4500 ongoing wins.
What's most impressive about your streak is the fact that you haven't died of boredom yet, lol. Joke aside, it's cool to see you try out different things in the middle of a streak, and make it work! Well done:) I also love your specs greninja from your singels streak
 
I just got my trophy for Super Singles. Since BM actually gives out trophies (as opposed to Subway), I think I'll try another format and see how far I could go.

Appreciate any advice on adapting my oh-so-original team, i.e. who's the lucky fourth team member?



Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
- Fake Out
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake

Very original. There are many variants of M-Kanga but I opted to keep Fake Out and replace PuP with Earthquake because my team has a major electric weakness, and while I did have PuP for the first 20-30 battles it was one of those moves that I used for the sake of using, but didn't net me any extra kills.

I love Fake Out and found that it helped me turn 2HKO into OHKO pretty often. The only issue is that a few fighting types have Inner Focus (almost lost to a Mienshao trainer as a result), and so I also have...

Talonflame (F) @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Attack / 172 Speed
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Steel Wing

This bird absorbs the fighting attacks meant for Kanga and usually OHKO with Brave Bird. I started wtih 252/4/252 but felt like that wasn't bulky enough. Will probably continue moving Speed EVs into HP EVs.

Steel Wing has pathetic power, maybe should replace with Tailwind in Doubles?




Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse

Standard. I actually almost never end up using him. If I try to switch him in, he generally gets KO'd. If he gets outsped, he gets KO'd. If I don't switch him in, 90% of the time Kanga and Talon get the job done.



For a fourth team member, I was thinking Garchomp, since if Kanga goes down, a fast electric type like Zapdos or Jolteon could easily finish me off. Garchomp's immunity and the lack of HP Ice in battle facilities would be useful. But I feel like there won't be much synergy between the team members. Two earthquake users, but only one flier and one very frail special attacker.

So I also thought about replacing Greninja with LO Latios, since Levitate pairs well with Garchomp and Kanga, but that would make the team pretty weak to a strong water type with ice attacks.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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So in between runs of Triples loveliness I amassed a streak of 1,269 in singles:



Don't mind the omega ruby milk chocolate truffle and the alpha sapphire dark chocolate truffle, they'll be consumed when the time is right.

Team, as a reminder:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite ** Melbourne: Return/Power-Up Punch/Sucker Punch/Earthquake, Adamant, Scrappy -> Parental Bond, 252Atk/4SpD/252Spe
Suicune @ Leftovers ** Holy Water: Scald/Icy Wind/Calm Mind/Rest, Bold, Pressure, 196HP/252Def/60Spe
Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb ** pH Balance: Earthquake/Toxic/Substitute/Protect, Careful, Poison Heal, 236HP/4Atk/12Def/252SpD/4Spe

But a funny thing happened when I was driving to Best Buy on Sunday September 14 (coincidentally to purchase that TV you see in the above pic):

Battle 1,268: #RP7W-WWWW-WWWA-GBCH

I was met with some random Hex Maniac who led with Drifblim. Not a threat by any means—Drifblim4 can only threaten me with TB paralysis (the move itself does like 22%) or long Hypnosis-induced sleep (during which I can't be paralyzed) along with Aftermath. I can't Mega Evolve because I want to keep Scrappy in effect. Can only get to +1 but that doesn't really matter, certainty not against a Medicham that's OHKOed by even +0 Return.

What does matter is Medicham using HJK on Kanga right after I Mega Evolve and select Return.

Bewildered (but not nearly enough to lose control of my car!), I realized I'd been tricked into thinking this was a regular Hex Maniac. In actuality, I had never been threatened by or tipped off about a Hex Maniac that could use Set 3 pokes, believe it or not. Never had any reason to distinguish them from each other like Veterans or Ace Trainers, with this team or Suizorus, as Haxorus and Kanga's opening gambits against Hex Maniacs are virtually undisturbed.

Anyway, I knew it was the 145 speed Jolly Medicham that outspeeds Kanga pre-ME (142). Kanga always outspeeds and OHKOs lead Medicham4, which is why I didn't Sucker Punch, a move that would have won me this battle guaranteed as at +1 it does 102% min:

+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 138-163 (102.2 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(138, 139, 141, 142, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160, 163)

Sad, but whatever. Sad in that if I had any doubt it was Medicham4, I should have used Sucker Punch, but I'm weirdly principled in that I'm not going to use a move I don't need to. Using Sucker Punch on Medicham4 implies that I need Sucker Punch to kill it, and I "don't want the game thinking I don't totally have it owned with Return". Like, using Sucker Punch is a sign of weakness, basically. Cute principles, huh?

Anyway, my first instinct was to switchstall Medicham out of Ice Punch PP, and after realizing that going to Suicune and having it miss Icy Wind was likely a losing proposition:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 91-108 (45.5 - 54%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
(91, 91, 93, 94, 96, 96, 97, 99, 99, 100, 102, 103, 103, 105, 106, 108)

So I went to Gliscor first. As it turns out, the freeze it immediately incurred on Suicune proved to be crucial, as I wanted to be able to use Icy Wind immediately, not having to use Scald first. Perhaps this meant that I should have chanced Icy Wind upfront, since Suicune was going to have to take five Ice Punches anyway if my strategy was to switchstall (which would result in a freeze 41% of the time since Suicune would have to take five of them after Pressure and Gliscor Protects), but missing Icy Wind would have all but guaranteed a loss.

After the Turn 5 freeze, I switchstalled, throwing Protect in there after every Gliscor switch in. On turn 17, I switched my frozen Suicune into Medicham's final Ice Punch (and get back to 163HP with Lefties), meaning that on Turn 20 Gliscor would have the option of staying in after switching in and Protecting. Medicham used HJK on Turn 18, and again on Turn 19 as I protected, halving Cham's HP while Gliscor's went up to 95. The second HJK was interesting for a number of reasons:

1) ZH is stronger
2) Cune may have to switch into an HJK if Cham is opting to use HJK "for no reason"
3) Cham is now in kill range of EQ + Scald

My point was going to be that switching in Cune would have been very risky, and that Double Protecting could possibly kill Cham for me, but actually, calcing it now, this is ultra sad:

4 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 69-82 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(69, 70, 70, 72, 72, 73, 75, 75, 76, 76, 78, 78, 79, 79, 81, 82)

This oversight is a direct consequence of...I don't even know, lol. Probably "not enough fucks given", because by this time I was parked and had access to the Showdown calculator on my phone, but I just felt there was no way Gliscor did 50% to Medicham here with EQ. I also strongly felt that Cham would use HJK again, and knew that I wouldn't die even if the Protect coinflip didn't go my way. So of my five options, I knew I couldn't switch to Suicune, and Subbing or using Toxic were even worse ideas. I knew I couldn't *lose* if Protect failed cause I'd just use it again then switch Suicune into a likely ZH, but that's still bad form. So it used ZH as Protect failed on Turn 20 (my Double Protect success rate is like 20%), and Cham used ZH to take Gliscor to 17HP, which went back up to 61HP after I Protected worry-free (well, immediate–worry-free, since there's a chance I actually lose for the first time lol). Switched Cune into ZH, was at 117 HP after Lefties.

So of course it CHed Cune with HJK (its penultimate one, not that it mattered too much). In hindsight the CH only 35% mattered because I needed to CH or Burn with my freeze-thawing Scald to change how the rest of the battle played out. After Protecting on Turn 24 I EQed, taking a...Bullet Punch. Weird because it had ZH and HJK PP left, and this would give me a bit of a chance to beat poke 3 if I could just get a Toxic in. Poke 3 turned out to be Slowbro, which could either be:

3 | Slowbro | Bold | Leftovers | Psychic | Surf | Slack Off | Amnesia | HP/Def
4 | Slowbro | Quiet | Leftovers | Psychic | Surf | Blizzard | Trick Room | HP/Def

Essentially identical for my purposes. I really didn't want to be naked and have it use Trick Room if it happened to be Slowbro4, so I used Sub. Probably a mistake here too, since I'm in KO range of Blizzard if it IS Slowbro 4, and I'm in dire need of HP and have a drawback-free Protect at my disposal. I do Sub on this Turn 26 , and it uses Surf, meaning it's probably Slowbro3 but I can't be too sure. I use the only move I can in Protect, hoping it doesn't TR...and it uses Surf again. More confident that it's Slowbro3, I'm a tad more hopeful, but I'm also fully aware of how much Sub/Protect PP I have. I Protect on Turn 31 as it Surfs, and am back at 75 HP, and I close my DS to think of whether I'll have any Sub/Protect PP left when I'm done stalling. I have four Protect PP left and 13 Subs, so...maybe, but this is looking bad. I reopen my DS, and pick Protect by mistake because it was pretty bright and I couldn't see the last move I chose. Obviously that little misclick shouldn't be rewarded, and it fails, and my streak is washed away by a final Surf.

At the time, I didn't know how big the Turn 20 "not EQing" mistake was, or realize that it didn't matter that much that Medicham CHed Cune with HJK (it did have 25% luck on its side to be both Pure Power and Medicham3, of course). I wanted to know if I would have won despite all this horseshit if I hadn't misclicked. Here's my notes.

so if i hadnt misclicked, i have four protect pp left and 13 sub pp

32. sub #4/surf #7
33. protect #13/surf #8 (74 hp)
34. sub #5/surf #9
35. protect #14/surf #10 (73 hp)
36. sub #5/surf #11
37. protect #14/surf #12 (72 hp)
38. sub #6/surf #13
39. protect #15/surf #14 (71 hp)
40. sub #7/surf #15
41. protect #16/surf #15 (0pp, 70hp)

i prob still die because even if i hit with toxic slowbro leaves me with 38-47 hp and the next psychic prob kills. if i had ONE more protect pp i would probably have won without the misclick lol


0 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 236 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 45-54 (25 - 30%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
(45, 45, 46, 46, 48, 48, 48, 49, 49, 49, 51, 51, 51, 52, 52, 54)


One more Protect PP. As in, why did you Double Protect on Medicham on Turn 20 lol. I would still have needed at least 2 more Protect PP to get past Slowbro with Toxic because of Leftovers, so I guess I don't feel too bad about it.

-----

So bad hax and questionable play abound, the saddest part still being "just use Sucker Punch". Anyway, in my opinion, my reluctance to share the date of my loss with you all would ordinarily have been irresponsible for would-be chasers of the Singles crown, and an abuse of the exceptional * by my streak's number. I too would take considerable issue with this...if I hadn't made it back up to exactly 800 in less than a week. Some of you may disagree with this line of thinking, and I don't blame you. I actually almost posted my true feelings when I got back to 800 (with proof pics of 1,267 and 800*), which would have been something along the lines of "ok i lost at 1,268 last week but i'm back at 800, StarKO or VaporeonIce or whoever, if you're around there and want to take a shot at 1,268 you're welcome to but my loss really ticked me off and i can assure you that 1,267 may as well be a moving target." I can't be any more candid than that—if I had actually posted, it would have supremely motivated me out of pride to get to 1,267 even faster than I did. I hope you all can see and understand that!

At the end of the day, I can't prove that I didn't lose a bunch of times at 300 and 700 and 450 or whatever (or can't prove it, as I didn't take a timestamped picture of when I got to 800). I'm pretty sure I have two separate pictures of "Battle 1,001! Are you ready?" but those doesn't really prove anything (I could still have lost at 300 a bunch of times).

I like to think I would have posted about the ridiculous hax I would have encountered at the Battle 300s and 700s and 450s that I would be covering up by "pretending" I really am essentially over 2600-0 with this team. I really do. I probably *would have* if the battles had been sufficiently outlandish, feeling that you all would understand my plight in trying to get back to 1,268. There was simply no such plight, though, because this team is broken. I mean, who loses at 1,268 and just runs it back up to 800 in a week then stops to entertain a triples team he'd been theorymonning since around battle 500, the point where he realized that "lol, the maison is easy and this team is broken"? Someone with a broken team, that's who.

Anyway, kind of like my comment about recognition, perhaps I am assuming that more of you guys would care about the prospect of a bunch of covered up losses en route to surpassing a record that wasn't as "ongoing" as my silence would have had you believe than actually do care. When I got back to 800, I actually let out a chuckle irl. That chuckle was half miffed cockiness ("look how fast I made it back to 800, this is like fifth place already, fuck you Anastasia, that was a shitty fluke") and half incredulity ("sheesh, I genuinely can't believe how easy it was for this team to just waltz back up to 800, it's almost embarrassing how broken this team is").

So the final tally by my name should read 1,267 and an asterisk at 1,268, if you don't feel I've abused that privilege, lol.
 

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