Item Fixes / Implementation Thread

[Deck Knight]

This thread will be tightly moderated to keep discussion intelligent & focused.​

This thread serves a few general purposes, outlined below:

1. Implementation of the last round of Pokemon Specific Items (Fossils and Odd Keystone.)

2. Discussion of changes to Everstone / Rare Candy

Topic 1: Implementation of the last round of Pokemon Specific Items (Fossils and Odd Keystone.)

Some might say "why do this" or "power creep." To which my answer is that we've already implemented every other conceivable signature item, including items that do not have an in-game precedence as a Pokemon specific item for the purposes of game balance. Additionally, in the 6th Generation Knock Off is viable in its own right as a damaging attack, and it's distribution is massive enough that it can be expected in common battle conditions. Fossils and Odd Keystone are the last of these, having already exhausted elemental stones, incenses, additional specific effects on Razor Fang/Claw, etc. Additionally, Fossils themselves have a fairly high Fling value in-game, without Iron Ball's Speed halving effect.

Recommended in the IRC chat were suggestions like ability activation, which works for some fossils but not others. I would like to discuss the proper boosts for these items so they can be implemented.

Topic 2: Discussion of changes to Everstone / Rare Candy

On this note, with more Legend Runs coming up and releasing some of the more powerful legendaries, specifically the all-4 Rank ones (Celebi and Shaymin already being released), Everstone and Rare Candy have the potential to be overpowering, giving Pokemon with few weaknesses and broad movepools 110 HP with Rank 5 stats and 100+ Spe. What I would like to discuss is a way to nerf Everstone / Rare Candy (or really any similar item) for Pokemon that already have extremely high ranks. The spirit of these items was to elevate Pokemon like Arbok, Spinda, and Sableye, who may have great movepools or unique abilities, but are so statistically underwhelming they offer little threat without a boost.

However, these items can also be used by titans like Snorlax (+Atk and +SpD), Tyranitar, Garchomp, Necturna, and of course released or soon to be released All 100's legends. Snorlax in fact has 3 items it can use - Full Incense (Atk/SpD, Acts Last + No Guard effect), Soothe Bell (Atk/SpD), and Rare Candy (+Atk/SpD, +2 Normal STAB).

These items were initially created to be a balancing mechanism, but their negative effects on the higher end of the scale have never been adequately addressed. Knock Off is a significant threat to the weaker Pokemon, but these Pokemon do fairly well without it. I would like to brainstorm solutions for a metric that prevents stronger Pokemon (Say BRT 22, 23, 24, or higher) from benefitting as much from these items.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Regarding Topic #2:

One proposal I would like to raise is to make those items less "generic". Basically, if the Pokémon has access to another "Signature Item" (Excluding Eviolite), then they will not benefit from Rare Candy/Everstone, basically forcing them to use other options.

Basically the intent of Rare Candy/Everstone was to give those that did not have a Signature Item themselves a pseudo-generic rank boosting item. By giving those that get a Rare Candy/Everstone boost kinda defeats the intent of these items, & in some cases like Azumarill, Rare Candy/Everstone even outclasses the signature item they were given. Currently, there is no reason to use Sea Incense over Rare Candy for example with Azumarill. The same could also be applied to Soothe Bell & Link Cable (Which only boosts pure trade evolutions atm), & add a clause to each of these generic items that if the Pokémon has a boosting item unique to its line, it will not benefit or something. Thinking of something along the lines of Everstone/Rare Candy < Link Cable/Soothe Bell < All other "Signature Items", that is, if a Pokémon benefits from any other signature item, then it cannot benefit from Everstone/Rare Candy. If a Pokémon can benefit from a signature item not named Everstone/Rare Candy/Link Cable/Soothe Bell, then it cannot benefit from Everstone/Rare Candy/Link Cable/Soothe Bell. What this does is attempt to limit a Pokémon's Signature Item repository to 1/2 items at the most.

One issue is with Eevee being able to benefit from a whopping eight Signature Items (Water Stone, Fire Stone, Thunderstone, Soothe Bell, Rare Candy, Moss Rock, Ice Rock, & Fairy Tech). I am thinking Eevee could be a possible exception, where it can benefit from Soothe Bell. We could also make an exception for Pokémon with access to Mega Stones since Mega Pokémon are not always available? IDK.

One of the aims of this proposal is to basically make things like Soothe Bell more viable, since everything that benefits from Soothe Bell also benefits from Rare Candy, & apart from maybe Crobat, Rare Candy is the superior option.

And well... Yeah. I kinda want Rare Candy/Everstone to be a boosting item only for those that do not get another Signature Item already, since that was kinda the intent of introducing those two items, if I recall correctly.

I also support removing the Rank Boost at least from those two items from Pokémon that have a high BRT (23+ seems like a good cut-off, & not because I am biased against those who spam Rare Candy Necturna in my Gym). Maybe the BAP Boost could stay for these Pokémon? But yeah, remove the rank boost at the very least.

 

[Leethoof]

The arguments both for and against the creation of fossil items are hopelessly biased, baseless, and generally a shitstorm. Neither side is ever ever ever ever going to budge. Therefore, I shall circumvent them entirely and go straight to suggesting ideas for fossils.

Deck originally proposed on IRC a neat, but overpowered idea of raising a lower stat of the fossils and also reducing two of their weaknesses/neutralities to a neutrality/resistance. For example, Carracosta's SpD would be raised one, and she would be counted as having a Thick Fat that works against Grass and Steel moves only. However, this would be ridiculously strong and even I admit that is going too far. And as much as I like the idea of raising a lower stat (especially considering how many of the fossils have a Rank 5 stat somewhere already), perhaps going with the more standard "raising highest stat" is an effective method. Now, for the other effects, a few things were suggested:

Rediamond proposed that the BAP of their non-rock moves be increased by two. For example, Armaldo would get +2 BAP on all bug-type attacks. This falls a little short of items like Moon Stone, but still is a strong and useful effect.

Rediamond also later proposed that the BAP of related moves be increased by an amount (2 or 3 most likely). For example, Rampardos's Skull Fossil would increase the BAP of Headbutt, Head Smash, and other similar attacks. Cradily's Root Fossil might increase the strength of draining and recovery moves.

Texas proposed various unique effects, such as permanent ability activation, for each individual fossil. This might include an always-active Swift Swim for Kabutops, or removing Defeatist entirely from Archeops. This is similar to the evolutionary stones, and depending on the severity of the buff, could be a solid balanced format. Some random brainstorming I have for this proposal follow:

Old Amber (Aerodactyl): Give access to Brave Bird/Head Smash? Pressure Buff? Improve Unnerve to complete item ignoring? Remember, this one is competing with a Megastone.
TexEDIT: Hell No to the former
Helix Fossil (Omastar): Swift Swim is always active, regardless of weather. Weak Armor does not cause defense drops. Maybe Shell Armor has -1 BAP to all attacks?
Dome Fossil (Kabutops): Swift Swim is always active, regardless of weather. Weak Armor does not cause defense drops. Maybe Battle Armor has -1 BAP to all attacks?
Root Fossil (Cradily): Storm Drain is always active. Raises two highest base stats maybe, because +1 Permanent stage boost seems weak compared to others.
Claw Fossil (Armaldo): Swift Swim is always active, regardless of weather. Maybe Battle Armor has -1 BAP to all attacks?
Skull Fossil (Rampardos): No recoil damage, or maybe Sheer Force still has the secondary effects and +2 BAP at same time.
Armor Fossil (Bastiodon): I can't be trusted with this, but perhaps Sturdy gets buffed to -2 BAP.
Cover Fossil (Carracosta): Swift Swim is always active, regardless of weather, and gives x3 or even x4 Speed.
Plume Fossil (Archeops): Remove Defeatist.
Jaw Fossil (Tyrantrum): Boost Strong Jaw to +4 BAP? Give +2 BAP to recoil moves? idk he is so strong already but whatever we gave snorlax a sig item
Sail Fossil (Aurorasaurusaurus): Icy Rock, and gives Refrigerate moves an additional +1 BAP.

These are all just rough ideas, but if we discuss enough surely we can come up with something great!

 

[Gerard]

If pokemon using Rare Candy/Everstone over signature items is a problem then why not make it so signature items are immune to the effects of Knock Off, Trick, etc... just like megastones & arceus plates. This gives them a niche by making them knock off resistant in comparison to their generic counterparts, another suggestion would be to boost them if just lightly to make them better than Rare Candy/Everstone (and thus have a reason to be used over them)

Also, I honestly don't see the problem with 5/5/5/5 pixies (and I know I'm gonna be called biased for this) since more than half of them are weak to Knock Off anyway so you're not wasting an actions removing the items (I think weakness policy would actually make for a better item) and well, they're legends anyway, if you're gonna go through all the trouble of getting one, shouldn't the end result be well worth the effort? idk, just my two cents

 

[Its_A_Random]

Yeah, but what happens when you do not have access to Knock Off/Trick/Switcheroo/Embargo/Magic Room? Switch to a Pokémon with the move, only to give the opponent the opportunity to counter-switch? Right...

I prefer that we did not buff the strength of signature items by giving them a Sticky Hold effect, as it is a pretty damn big buff, & as someone generally opposed to power creep (except in very small, reasonable doses), I would argue that giving Pokémon with signature items that sort of effect is a massive indirect jump in power, as suddenly, you cannot remove the items & instead have to rely on Embargo/Magic Room (Both of which are rare in ASB. I think Embargo is underrated & should be used more anyway), & both of these moves do not have a massive distribution either. Not to mention, both are temporary effects, where-as Knock Off permanently removes the item for the duration of the battle. Also from a precedent standpoint (Which I personally see as a lame excuse, but...), it is very hard to justify the Sticky Hold effect, given these items do not have that effect ingame.

I agree that Weakness Policy would be really useful on some of the "pixie" legends as it does discourage Knock Off, but to those that are not Knock Off weak (Manaphy, Shaymin), Weakness Policy would not discourage Knock Off. Also, if I were to send out a Jirachi, & my opponent does not have a Knock Off mon out, then I would rather use the Everstone over the Weakness Policy, because not only do I get an effective +1.5 BAP on all attacks minimum, but I also get an effective -1.5 BAP on the opponent's attacks as well, as is the benefits of having 110/5/5/5/5/100 stats before nature application. The extra kick in the STAB attacks I use is just the icing on the cake, & it makes my pixie even harder to lose a 1v1 match-up, as opposed to a more manageable 110/4/4/4/4/100 before nature.

Also the legends argument is a pretty bad argument as well, because it is inevitable that a user will manage to snag Legendary Pokémon <whatever> (some users will make the effort to try), & it would also be possible that said legend could be used in major areas like tournaments or the Gym League, assuming no banlist. Sure the usage would probably be rare, but remember, Deoxys-D was UU last Generation in competitive, yet it got kicked upstairs to the Uber Tier. Deoxys-S is BL at the moment this generation in competitive, & it is currently being suspected for a possible kick upstairs to the Uber Tier. "Nobody used Swoobat" according to some, yet we still kept decay in stat changing moves, albeit in an altered form. Usage of a Pokémon is irrelevant when it comes to game issues.

I would not be fully opposed to some increases in signature items as long as the improvement is incremental (i.e. reasonable), but I would still prefer nerfing Rare Candy/Everstone as opposed to improving other items around it for reasons stated in my previous post such as intent & giving other items a reason to be used.

 

[ZhengTann]

I think there's an issue about RC/Everstone versus Sig Items that needs to be kept in mind of when we say that one outclasses the other. Taking a look at the price tags, Sea Incense for example costs 8 CC compared to Rare Candy's 15, which I believe is an illustration that item mechanics cannot be simply brought to balance at a drop of a hat. Variety is what I believe a theme when it comes to items, and when some Pokemon like Azumarill happens to have access to multiple so-called signature items (let's not forget that Expert Belt, Life Orb, Focus Sash and Leftovers exist as generic good items too), well it's up to the trainer to decide what items to equip in a match (I mean, look at Dogfish, he practically used Expert Belts on more than half of his team most of the times I've seen him battle).

That said, I agree with IAR's notion of limiting Rank boosts from items so that they actually benefit lower BRT Pokemons in the general metagame. The cap that such Rank Boosts will not affect Pokemon with a BRT of 23 and above seems reasonable, and it would mean that theoretically the highest a mon's BRT could go after an item's Rank boosts would be 24 (Deoxys-S sitting at 22 with highest Attack + SpAtk ties).

As to the Fossil / Keystone issue, I'd like to quote from Comp:

... All current signature items fall into 4 ingame-based categories: they are used to evolve a Pokemon; they are used to make baby pokemon; they serve as the catalyst of a form change; they have an in-game battle effect... Even items such as the Soothe Bell have basis in the fact that they increase friendship, allowing Pokemon that evolve by that method to evolve faster ingame...

If we really want the Fossils, then at least I'm suggesting that we stop here, before Wailmer Pail or SquirtBottle becomes Sudowoodo's sig item in ASB.

 

[Ute]

On irc we discussed the possibility of some type of Coronet/Chargestone Rock that works as a signature Item for Probopass, Magnezone, and Stratagem. My suggestion goes like this. My proposed description is below.

This Pokemon floats above the earth when released or easily takes flight, evading the Ground moves Bulldoze, Dig, Earthquake, Fissure, and Magnitude. Earth Power will have three (3) less Base Attack Power. All other Ground moves can still hit. This item does not interfere with the Pokemon using any of its attacks. If a Pokemon is already airborn (through Levitate, Magnet Rise, or Similar Effects) it is granted full immunity to offensive Ground Type moves.

 

[Stratos]

new key item list suggestions:

Silph Scope
PokeFlute
Lotto Coin Case
Squirt Bottle
Old/Good/Super Rods
...I could go on, but I think you get the point. This is silly. As Zt said Complications said, there are currently four specific types of sig item, and expanding this to include items that fulfill a fifth category—necessary to obtain a certain pokemon—can get ridiculous because these are much more ill-defined, and is not something i'm into doing

 

[Ute]

new key item list suggestions:

Silph Scope
PokeFlute
Lotto Coin Case
Squirt Bottle
Old/Good/Super Rods
...I could go on, but I think you get the point. This is silly. As Zt said Complications said, there are currently four specific types of sig item, and expanding this to include items that fulfill a fifth category—necessary to obtain a certain pokemon—can get ridiculous because these are much more ill-defined, and is not something i'm into doing

I'm not sure if this directed at me or the thread in general, but I'll respond to it anyway. Fossils/Odd Keystone etc. can clearly open up the way to a slippery slope and if they are to be implemented they will likely be the only exception to the four categories of items (Evolution Items, Breeding Items, Form Change Catalysts, and Battle Items), though it is uncertain if they will be implemented at all. My suggestion would be to specifically name a potential fifth category Fossils, rather than to open the way for these items Pwnemon mentioned if it is decided that fossils are to be added.
as for my suggestion, I only posted it because it counts as an Evolution Item (much like Moss Rock and Ice Rock) and there was some discussion about it on IRC (including Deck saying it seemed plausible). It is certainly open to criticism and alteration since I'm not as familiar with the game as most here are, but I think that could be a very useful but hardly overpowering option that may need some fine tuning before any decisions are made about it.

 

[Mulan15262]

On irc we discussed the possibility of some type of Coronet/Chargestone Rock that works as a signature Item for Probopass, Magnezone, and Stratagem. My suggestion goes like this. My proposed description is below.

This Pokemon floats above the earth when released or easily takes flight, evading the Ground moves Bulldoze, Dig, Earthquake, Fissure, and Magnitude. Earth Power will have three (3) less Base Attack Power. All other Ground moves can still hit. This item does not interfere with the Pokemon using any of its attacks. If a Pokemon is already airborn (through Levitate, Magnet Rise, or Similar Effects) it is granted full immunity to offensive Ground Type moves.

How about changing its name to Charged Stone.

 

[akela]

I originally suggested the idea of implementing Fossils in ASB because of one reason and one reason alone.

ASB's Fling

I have asked about removing Fossils from the description of Fling. No answer. Many people seem opposed to implementing Fossils, but no one can be half-assed to remove references to them from ASB. All Scarves, Odd Keystone, and Rare Bone are mentioned as well, but not included as items in ASB. ASB's description of Fling varies from Fling's in-cartridge effect in that Fling's in-cartridge effect can throw other items like the Relic items. I bring this up because the inclusion of All Scarves, All Fossils, Rare Bone, and Odd Keystone in ASB's Fling's description was justified by it having been copied and pasted from a place like Bulbapedia.

Maybe that is the case. But then it does not explain the following:

Bulbapedia's Fling

If it was simply copied from some place like Bulbapedia, it does not explain why it doesn't list All Wings, All medicines, All Potions, All herbal medicine, All Revives, All drinks, All Ethers and Elixirs, All Repels, All Vitamins, All Shards, All Mulches, All battle items, All Flutes,Lava Cookie, Sacred Ash, Old Gateau, Poké Doll, Fluffy Tail, Shoal Salt, Shoal Shell,Escape Rope, TinyMushroom, Big Mushroom, Balm Mushroom, Pearl, Big Pearl,Pearl String, Stardust, Star Piece, Nugget, Big Nugget, Heart Scale, Honey, Poké Toy, BalmMushroom, Big Nugget, Pearl String, Comet Shard, Pass Orb, Relic Copper, Relic Silver, Relic Gold, Relic Vase,Relic Statue, Relic Crown, Casteliacone, Sweet Heart as items affecting Fling. I cannot imagine why anyone would omit all those items but include All Scarves, Odd Keystone, All Fossils, and Rare Bone.

This is not me saying we should implement Fossils, although admittedly I would not necessarily oppose it. This is me saying that we have moves and items in ASB that reference things that do not exist in ASB. This is unnecessary and can confuse people.

What I ask for right now is a decision on if we should remove references to that which does not exist in ASB or create the things that are referenced in ASB but do not yet exist?

 

[Dogfish44]

Current references to Fossils et. al should have been removed from ASB - this is the first time I've heard of an issue with Fling - that was, in Gen V, the Fling BAP used to have a link to the Fling SmogonDex page and that's how it was calculated. Presumably Lou or one of the other people in charge of copying over moves to the NDA added in Fossils - but this does not mean we need to endorse them. I also don't think that they need to be added to ASB.

In my opinion, we need to do the following:

• Make individual signature items (Incense, etc.) more viable for all mons (Sea Incense is substantially less viable than Full Incense...) so that they can actually be used (In particular, Soothe Bell).
• Make the items that are used for the evolution types we now do not cover (Move-Based, location-based, item-Based, etc.) - For the CAPmons who have odd evos (I know Breezi used to be Iron-Ball based, and I think Protowatt is location based?), I feel we should implement those as they arrive.

This should mean we cover all Evo methods equally. In regards to Everstone/RC, they're fine as is, and I oppose the addition of non-evolution related items.

 

[Deck Knight]

So, Items Overhaul.

Rulings:

1. Signature Items will have the following precedence: Item-Based > Happiness > Level-Up / No Evolution

2. Item Based Evolutions consist of Pokemon Specific Items (Electirizer, Reaper Cloth, etc.), Battle Items, Evolutionary Stones, Fossils, and Incenses.

3. Mega Stones are separate from these rulings, and exist independent of them.

This means that a Pokemon that has an Incense cannot use Soothe Bell, and a Pokemon eligible for Soothe Bell cannot use Rare Candy or Everstone. A Pokemon such as Roserade, which has both Rose Incense and Shiny Stone can utilize BOTH, as BOTH are item-based.

With that considered, a rebalancing is in order.

New Items:
Fossils (Replace Rare Candy / Everstone for Fossil Mons)-

Helix Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Dome Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Defense by one (1) Rank.

Old Amber - 8 CC - Raises the Energy Cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Root Fossil - 8 CC - Enhances Storm Drain to increase Special Attack by two (2) stages when activated. Reduces the Energy Cost of HP Draining Attacks / Recovery Moves by one (1). Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Claw Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases the Base Attack Power of Contact Attacks by one (1) BAP. Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Skull Fossil - 8 CC - Sheer Force becomes Passive, and no longer removes the secondary effects from attacks. Increases Defense by one (1) Rank.

Armor Fossil - 8 CC - Immune to damage from ball and bomb attacks. (Full List: Acid Spray, Aura Sphere, Barrage, Bullet Seed, Egg Bomb, Electro Ball, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Gyro Ball, Ice Ball, Magnet Bomb, Mist Ball, Mud Bomb, Octazooka, Rock Wrecker, Seed Bomb, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Weather Ball, and Zap Cannon.) Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Cover Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Plume Fossil - 8 CC - Defeatist Rank drops are ignored. Increases Defense by one (1) Rank.

Jaw Fossil - 8 CC - Increases the Base Attack Power of non-contact attacks by one (1) BAP. Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Sail Fossil - 8 CC - Makes Snow Warning and Hail last an unlimited amount of time, until the weather is changed. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Other Items:

Charged Stone (Replaces Rare Candy for Magneton/Zone and Nosepass/Probopass) - 8 CC -The Pokemon is under a constant Magnet Rise effect. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each.

Daylight - 8 CC- (Replace Soothe Bell for Espeon) - The Pokemon's Magic Bounce ignores the negative effects of all Status category moves not initiated by the user or an ally (ex. Skill Swap, Gravity, Perish Song). Morning Sun will always heal for its highest possible HP value. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each.

Nightlight - 8 CC-(Replace Soothe Bell for Umbreon) - If Synchronize is activated by a non-damaging attack, the Pokemon is healed of that attack's inflicted status. Moonlight will always heal for its highest possible HP value. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each.

Odd Keystone - 8 CC (Replaces Everstone for Spiritomb) - Raises the Energy Cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Rebalanced Items:

Full Incense: Causes the Pokemon to always move last within its priority bracket, regardless of Speed. The Pokemon's attacks will never miss an opponent and opponents' attacks will never miss the Pokemon. OHKO moves have normal accuracy when used with or against a Pokemon with this item. When the Pokemon uses Rest they will gain 15 HP per action.

Lax Incense: Removes recoil on Struggle. Increases the return damage on Counter and Mirror Coat to 1.75x. Increases Defense and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.

Luck Incense: The Pokemon's owner gains one (1) additional Currency Counter for each battle the Pokemon participates in. Can be used in Training battles. Increases Special Attack by one (1) Rank.

Odd Incense: The Pokemon's team-wide barrier moves (Reflect/Light Screen/Quick Guard/Safeguard/Wide Guard) have an additional +1 priority from their usual level. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.

Pure Incense: Halves the rate of damage increase on Toxic (e.g. it becomes 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3 over 6 rounds instead of 1,2,3,4,5,6) and increases the rate of decay on Freeze (always 1 action), Sleep (0,1,1 instead of 1,1,2) and paralysis (25,15,5,0 or 20,10,0 instead of 25,20,15,10,5,0). Reduces the damage of Poison and Burn to one (1) DPA. Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised.

Rock Incense: Alters Rattled to boost Special Defense when activated, and activates it automatically at the end of each round. Increases Attack and Defense by one (1) Rank each.

Rose Incense: Confers Leaf Guard if not present, Leaf Guard is always active, regardless of weather. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank Each.

Sea Incense: Enhances Sap Sipper to increase Attack by two (2) stages when activated. Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Wave Incense: Enters battle with Swift Swim activated, regardless of weather. Continuously activates Water Absorb, granting one (1) HP per action. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank each.

Soothe Bell: Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised.
Pokemon: Golbat, Crobat, Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Togepi, Buneary, Lopunny, Riolu, Lucario, Woobat, Swoobat, Swadloon, Leavanny

Methodology:

This rebalancing was based largely upon abilities, or characteristics specific to the Pokemon like most other signature items. Some effects remain, others were added in. There are now distinctive differences between most of these items, though many of the effects cross over. As they are more specific, general language about ranks has been removed from several items.

 

[Maxim]

Just a few things about the new items:

Skull Fossil: Abilities can no longer be Innate, I believe you mean Passive.

Lax Incense: lol

Rose Incense: Uhm...Roserade does not get Leaf Guard?

Wave Incense: Water Absorb does not depend on the weather at all.

Pure Incense: The generic language about ranks is still there.

 

[Its_A_Random]

I disagree with implementing the new items for personal reasons, but if we are going down that route, which looks like it is going to happen?

The Gravity resistant effect of Charged Stone is something I do not like. I can see the intent with it, but I feel that the ability to remove an inherent risk to using Gravity when using it is a bit too powerful of an effect, as if a permanent Magnet Rise was not enough already.

Daylight's first effect is kinda superfluous on Espeon. How is it going to be afflicted by a status condition from a non-damaging attack, when said attack will just get bounced back by virtue of Magic Bounce? You could argue Mould Breaker, but not everything gets Mould Breaker, etc.

No to the current Odd Keystone. Can we stop attempting to make Spiritomb "no weak?" The minor Pressure buff alone is far more suitable in my opinion than cutting out Spiritomb's only weakness, giving it an extra resistance, & well, trolling Fighting-types even more with an immunity & a resistance for the sake of having it be no weak regardless. The originally proposed Thick Fat-style effects were shot down for the Fossils, & I feel that the Odd Keystone should not be deserving any special treatment. Keep the EN increase, but not the no weak thing in my opinion; anything other than attempting to add resistances/removing weaknesses.

I am also leery on Skull Fossil & Sail Fossil. But personally, the above three mentioned items should be changed at least to address my concerns, should we ultimately decide to implement them, if at all.

 

[Frosty]

I agree with Maxim about rose incense and with iar about Daylight.

Also, I feel that Old Amber is kinda underwhelming. +1 Special attack usually isn't enough to make useable (goes to 3 and since most will run either adamant or jolly, you will work effectively with 2 SpA). Reaper Cloth (a half-decent item) at least boost pressure by 2 instead of 1. Maybe go the same route with Old Amber and Odd Keystone?

For Odd Keystone I see absolutely no problem with adjusting type effectivity. I don't get why some effects would be off-limits and some are fair game for, what it seems, arbitrary reasons. If it is balanced at the end, then sure, I guess.

But I don't feel necessary to add Bug and Fighting just so it keeps no weaknesses with Foresight. If you are going that route, you should add Electric due to Water Gun and all. Seems silly of me to say it (and it is), but it is still one move that allows a weakness on Spiritomb.

Personally, I would much rather see pressure boosted by 2 and no fairy weakness. But, honestly, this is personal preferance and the current effects are fine in terms of balance imo. Everstone probably had a stronger effect anyway.

Also, are those changes effective immediately? Or were they posted for feedback? Since it says "ruling" and all, I'd believe that are already in effect. But I want to be sure.

 

[Leethoof]

Since this is now about all sorts of items, moooooon stone

Increases the Base Attack Power of Normal and Psychic-type moves by two (2), and prevents damage from recoil on all moves. Moonlight will always heal for its highest possible HP value. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised.

Reasoning is in the Feedback Thread, mostly because Musharna and Clefable gain 0 benefit from the recoil-free effect of Moon Stone. Them, and Nidoqueen, would be the only beneficiaries.

Also, Moonlight in ASB does not benefit from Sunny Day - only from arena effects determining Nighttime! Therefore, Nightlight's description should be edited to show this.

 

[Deck Knight]

Specific Items are not yet in effect, and the rulings will take effect when the relevant items are approved.

For the purposes of tournaments, they will follow the rules and descriptions of the items as they were at the beginning of the tournament.

Skull Fossil: Abilities can no longer be Innate, I believe you mean Passive.

DK: Will be changed to Passive.

Lax Incense: lol

DK: Stat Boosts were removed from it in exchange.

Rose Incense: Uhm...Roserade does not get Leaf Guard?

DK: The intent in the wording is to confer Leaf Guard onto Roserade. Will seek way to clarify.

Wave Incense: Water Absorb does not depend on the weather at all.

DK: This is basically Water Stone's effect, I will clarify.

Pure Incense: The generic language about ranks is still there.

DK: This is purposeful because Chingling's second highest stats (Def/SpD) are both 50.

RE: Daylight on Espeon -

The problem I'm having here is I don't know of a way to improve Synchronize on Espeon that won't be broken. If it were to heal status transferred from damaging moves, it'd be over the top. I'd rather have it match Umbreon's effect, which was selected because I thought making Umbreon effectively immune to Status would make it too powerful. Suggestions are welcome - one I did think of was emphasizing Magic Bounce instead, and making it fire back any non-damaging effect, including things like Perish Song.

RE: Charged Stone -

Gravity effect still lowers Evasion, so even though under Gravity the Pokemon will be immune to EQ and co., it will still be hit by the likes of Dynamicpunch, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, etc (and Earth Power still effects it, at a lower rate. Drill Run, Mud Attacks etc are still 4x SE) Plus, the mon still has to use Gravity (both have access). This is in exchange for the BAP boost on STABs.

RE: Unposted Fossil proposal and Odd Keystone-

Technically, nothing was "shot down." I decided to relent because people correctly pointed out that most other signature items tended to be based around abilities rather than types or stats. Spiritomb's abilities don't lend itself to that, and I'm trying to make Pressure mons avoid being Reaper Cloth style clones. That said, I'll think of something for Odd Keystone.

 

[Gerard]

well, tbh I rather have +1 Def/SpD that helps every time than a neutrality to fairy attacks, a pressure boost with the +1 boost it's something I would rather use

 

[Dogfish44]

I'd rather Odd Keystone be decorative (i.e. nonexistant), but I'm stubborn like that. I think any issue have already been covered - I feel that the Fossils trying to make Omastar and Kabutops are rather weak (Pushing for them to be mixed won't work imho), but the rest has been addressed.

Also, thoughts on Malamar (Do they get a sig item for the rather unique evo method, or are we just going with "Level Up" there), and the mons who evolve by owning a specific move (Ambipom, Mamoswine, etc.)?

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Also, thoughts on Malamar (Do they get a sig item for the rather unique evo method, or are we just going with "Level Up" there), and the mons who evolve by owning a specific move (Ambipom, Mamoswine, etc.)?

Specific move or not it still evolves by level up

 

[Deck Knight]

Final Judgement:

*These Items and Rulings are not applicable to ongoing tournaments, which are locked in with their original rules and item descriptions.

Rulings:

1. Signature Items will have the following precedence: Item-Based > Happiness > Level-Up / No Evolution

2. Item Based Evolutions consist of Pokemon Specific Items (Electirizer, Reaper Cloth, etc.), Battle Items, Evolutionary Stones, Fossils, and Incenses.

3. CAP Pokemon use Rare Candy or Everstone. Given the infinite number of possible ways CAPs might evolve in the future, these items work as useful standards.

4. Mega Stones are separate from these rulings, and exist independent of them.

5. Rare Candy ceases giving Rank boosts once the Pokemon reaches 24 Total Ranks. Necturna, being the only eligible Rare Candy Pokemon at 23 Ranks that have a tied highest True Base Stat, get a SpD boost. The Pokemon will still receive the STAB boost from Rare Candy.

6. Everstone ceases giving Rank boosts to Pokemon that naturally have 24 or greater Base Rank Total. Meloetta-A, Azelf, Registeel, and Genesect get a boost in both their relevant stats (SpA and SpD, Atk and SpA, Def and SpD, Atk and SpA).

This means that a Pokemon that has an Incense cannot use Soothe Bell, and a Pokemon eligible for Soothe Bell cannot use Rare Candy or Everstone. A Pokemon such as Roserade, which has both Rose Incense and Shiny Stone can utilize BOTH, as BOTH are item-based.

New Items being implemented as follows:


Fossils (Replace Rare Candy / Everstone for Fossil Mons)-

Helix Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Dome Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Defense by one (1) Rank.

Old Amber - 8 CC - Raises the Energy Cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Root Fossil - 8 CC - Enhances Storm Drain to increase Special Attack by two (2) stages when activated. Reduces the Energy Cost of HP Draining Attacks / Recovery Moves by one (1). Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Claw Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases the Base Attack Power of Contact Attacks by one (1) BAP. Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Skull Fossil - 8 CC - Sheer Force becomes Passive, and no longer removes the secondary effects from attacks. Increases Defense by one (1) Rank.

Armor Fossil - 8 CC - Immune to damage from ball and bomb attacks. (Full List: Acid Spray, Aura Sphere, Barrage, Bullet Seed, Egg Bomb, Electro Ball, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Gyro Ball, Ice Ball, Magnet Bomb, Mist Ball, Mud Bomb, Octazooka, Rock Wrecker, Seed Bomb, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Weather Ball, and Zap Cannon.) Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Cover Fossil - 8 CC - Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Plume Fossil - 8 CC - Defeatist Rank drops are ignored. Increases Defense by one (1) Rank.

Jaw Fossil - 8 CC - Increases the Base Attack Power of non-contact attacks by one (1) BAP. Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Sail Fossil - 8 CC - Makes Snow Warning and Hail last an unlimited amount of time, until the weather is changed. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.

Other Items:

Charged Stone (Replaces Rare Candy for Magneton/Zone and Nosepass/Probopass) - 8 CC -The Pokemon is under a constant Magnet Rise effect. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each.

Solar Ray - 8 CC- (Replace Soothe Bell for Espeon) - The Pokemon's Magic Bounce makes the Pokemon immune to the negative effects (ex. loss of ability, evasion drop, perish counter) of all Status category moves not initiated by the user or an ally (ex. Skill Swap, Gravity, Perish Song). Morning Sun will always heal for its highest possible HP value. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each.

Lunar Ray - 8 CC-(Replace Soothe Bell for Umbreon) - If Synchronize is activated by a non-damaging attack, the Pokemon is healed of that attack's inflicted status. Moonlight will always heal for its highest possible HP value. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each.

Odd Keystone - 8 CC (Replaces Everstone for Spiritomb) - Raises the Energy Cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Rebalanced Items:

Full Incense: Causes the Pokemon to always move last within its priority bracket, regardless of Speed. The Pokemon's attacks will never miss an opponent and opponents' attacks will never miss the Pokemon. OHKO moves have normal accuracy when used with or against a Pokemon with this item. When the Pokemon uses Rest they will gain 15 HP per action.

Lax Incense: Removes recoil on Struggle. Increases the return damage on Counter and Mirror Coat to 1.75x. Increases Defense and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.

Luck Incense: The Pokemon's owner gains one (1) additional Currency Counter for each battle the Pokemon participates in. Can be used in Training battles. Increases Special Attack by one (1) Rank.

Odd Incense: The Pokemon's team-wide barrier moves (Reflect/Light Screen/Quick Guard/Safeguard/Wide Guard) have an additional +1 priority from their usual level. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.

Pure Incense: Halves the rate of damage increase on Toxic (e.g. it becomes 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3 over 6 rounds instead of 1,2,3,4,5,6) and increases the rate of decay on Freeze (always 1 action), Sleep (0,1,1 instead of 1,1,2) and paralysis (25,15,5,0 or 20,10,0 instead of 25,20,15,10,5,0). Reduces the damage of Poison and Burn to one (1) DPA. Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised.

Rock Incense: Alters Rattled to boost Special Defense when activated, and activates it automatically at the end of each round. Increases Attack and Defense by one (1) Rank each.

Rose Incense: Confers Leaf Guard if not present, Leaf Guard is always active, regardless of weather. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank Each.

Sea Incense: Enhances Sap Sipper to increase Attack by two (2) stages when activated. Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank.

Wave Incense: Enters battle with Swift Swim activated, regardless of weather. Continuously activates Water Absorb, granting one (1) HP per action. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank each.

Soothe Bell: Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised.
Pokemon: Golbat, Crobat, Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Togepi, Buneary, Lopunny, Riolu, Lucario, Woobat, Swoobat, Swadloon, Leavanny

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ObjEDIT: Reworded Solar Ray to clarify that Magic Bounce makes Espeon ignore the effects rather than Magic Bounce itself ignoring the effects.