Metagame Inverse

E4 Flint

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
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Remember that guy in XY's Battle Maison that you used to pwn, the one who could invert the typechart? What if he ran a competitive meta?

RULES
The type-chart is inverted in all battle interactions, be it attacks, status moves, or even Stealth Rock.
Refer to the following for help:
KfYx5OH.png

​
Some Caveats:
  • Immunities become x2 SE. There are no immunities left in this tier based on typing alone
  • The above does not affect ability-based immunities
  • The above does not affect type-based immunities to statuses e.g. Electric Types unable to be Paralyzed, Steel Types unable to be Poisoned, Fire Type unable to be burned etc.
CLAUSES and BANS
  • Current OU banlist with the additional
    • Banned: Kyurem-Black, Serperior, Hoopa-U, Kartana, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Lele, Diggersby
    • Unbanned: Aegislash, Lucarionite, Dialga, Giratina, Solgaleo
  • Standard clauses
    • Sleep, OHKO, Species, Evasion, Moody, Swagger, Endless Battle, and Baton Pass

Ban reasoning:
Its main problem in OU (lack of Physical Ice STAB, ie no spammable STAB) is made irrelevant, as Dragon+Electric is perfect neutral coverage. Adamant Band 2HKOs the entire metagame (bar maxdef Salamence thanks to Intimidate) with rocks up, including Avalugg. It also has Ice Beam for a more reliable hit on Avalugg. Sets such as Scarf clean vs offense with ease, SubRoost smashes stall, etc. Its typing isn't even that bad.
Partly held back in OU by its awful offensive coverage, here Grass is one of the best offensive types and offers near perfect coverage when paired with Dragon Pulse or even HP Fire/Poison. Worry Seed beats Sap Sipper, and you have Taunt, SubSeed, Aromatherapy, Giga Drain and Glare as other options.
No new switchins have been introduced since last gen. You can find some more thoughts by sinpi here.
One of the strongest offensive types in Grass, Beast Boost and access to SD (even though Band can already 2hko Avalygg), it's pretty clear that SR isn't enough to hold back this unwallable mon
check out this post by Young Dramps
Unban reasoning:
Absolutely horrendous typing makes it incredibly exploitable. 3 4x weaknesses.
Has arguably the worst typing in the metagame, making setting up quite tricky. Very very strong if it does get a SD boost, though, so it will be watched.
Quad weak to rocks, awful typing. Has a lot of power but is far too easy to pressure.
Awful typing (notice a theme?). Pretty cool offensively but is not broken by any means.
Its typing gives it 8 weaknesses to common types which significantly cuts into its "bulk". Perfectly viable, but not broken.
10 weaknesses including a 4x weakness to psychic, and rocks weak. I'm rather iffy on this but I can't see it being super problematic.
some words by Kl4ng on Dialga and Giratina which are still relevant in a gen 7 metagame

FAQ
Where can I play this?
rom.psim.us thanks to urkerab!

[nothing more so far]

What's new with USUM?
New threats in the UBs, new weather mons, and Tapus, and also lost some major faces of the metagame such as Mega Lopunny, Mega Heracross, Mega Abomasnow... nearly every relevant mega, in fact! Necrozma, and Tapu Bulu look like great additions in particular. Will Diggersby and Snorlax be banned again? Will Chanslugg still be the defensive core of choice, despite its passiveness? How will Necrozma fair with Photon Geyser? All questions that open play should answer soon!

INVERSE COUNCIL
E4 Flint
Klang
OM room
 
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RESOURCES​
Ghoul King's type analysis
Previous threads [1] [2]

Sample Sets:

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Drill Run / Fell Stinger

Basic Mega Beedrill set. Not many pokemon resist its STAB combination other than grass types, and drill run allows you to deal with that.
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss / Psywave
- Soft-boiled
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock / Counter / Wish

Your basic special wall. Seismic Toss is better than Psywave due to more reliable damage. Stealth rock is good for hazards since not many pokemon can break Chansey turn 1. Counter allows Chansey to ohko most physical threats, and Wish allows for even more healing.
Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Conversion
- Shadow Ball / Tri-Attack / Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Conversion Porygon hits extremely powerfully after the boost. Psyshock allows you to break past chansey, whilst shadow ball allows you to break past Porygon2. Tri-Attack is a good STAB move, whilst Thunderbolt is allows you to hit grass / ground types.

More to come soon!
 
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Interesting that this is brought back, despite being completely removed from Sun and Moon altogether.

Some initial thoughts:

-Pheromosa seems like a pretty big threat. Having SE coverage on Psychic types while also sporting the awful Bug type around and having Ice Beam to hit Avalugg seems like it's pretty scary. Thankfully, Normal types can take a High Jump Kick or two.

-Katarna just dies to any priority ever. ...Maybe that's an exaggeration, but it's also an offensive Grass-type.. Sceptile strikes me as a better option, though.

-Guzzlord is still not good.

-Tapu Bulu is probably going to be a big threat. I can see Fighting types and Sap Sipper mons becoming more popular now.

-Thanks to Psychic Terrain enabling a formerly bad type to go wild, I think Tapu Lele is going to be extremely crazy in this. Don't forget those Fighting types... (that can't Mach Punch this due to the terrain)

-Stakeout Gumshoos seems markedly better now. Maybe not enough to be viable, but we'll see...
 
Guts Ursaring: "Carrying multiple attacks? What nonsense!"

Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
IV's, EV's, Nature: 31's, 252-Attack 252-Speed 4-?, Adamant/Jolly

== Facade
== Swords Dance
== Protect
== (Guts Ursaring doesn't need a fourth moveslot!)

This post is at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
 
lets talk about kartana counters
with access to sd its literally impossible to wall
calcs of noticeable walls


+2 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 174-205 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
it loses with roar since ava and eq do nothing to kartana while it can sd for days, unless u r sets like gyro ball then yh

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 168-198 (44.9 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
porygon has proven yet again to be too good, this is probably the best check in the game along with those random sap sipper mons

literally every grass loses to it barring grass sap sippers this is looking like a serperior but its slower and physical

i can see stuff like bulky bouf and milktank can into play, the only thing holding this back is its shitty steel typing making it weak to the most common type and sr
its a good mon to test out
dont get me started on phero lol i feel meloletta will be pressured alot this gen tbh with all those tapus since its looking like tapu lele is gonna be broken asf nothing switchins into specs
 
Tapu Lele is interesting. High offenses breaks through most defensive cores, and Psychic Terrain is pretty amazing. Psychic + Fairy gets past Poison, but has trouble with Fighting types. Depending on it's coverage and set, it can beat almost any Pokemon in Inverse.

Speaking of Kommo-o, what does everyone think about it? Soundproof helps it beat SubCM Meloetta, while Bulletproof makes it a Psychic-resist that is immune to a lot of coverage (like Chesnaught).

Toxapex is one of few good poison types in the tier, beating most Psychics with a Specially Defensive set. Toxic Spikes are pretty good, since the most common spinner (Avalugg) doesn't like them much.

Z-Conversion is definitely interesting, I think. Porygon-Z won't change its type (unless you want to use Psyshock to beat Chansey), but Tri-Attack/Conversion/Recover/Filler is a good set. You outspeed Chansey and P2 even when Paralyzed, and 2HKO the latter with rocks.
 
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I played Inverse Battles a lot in XY, back when all of the Uber Pokemon were in the tier. I think it was a waste for GameFreak not to bring it back as a weird variant Battle Spot.

How does Normal offense and Ice defense fare in Sun and Moon? Back in XY, Avalugg was pretty much as close as we'll ever get to the dreaded physical Blissey.
 
Last time I played Inverse Ice Beam Dragonite was a thing because of how good Avalugg is, so take that for what it is.
 
I don't think Avalugg has deteriorated in viability much if at all, it's still the premier physical wall. CB Tapu Bulu 2HKOs it with Wood Hammer, though. I never really liked using Ava myself.
I've been rly busy recently (and still am), but in about a week or so I'll be ready to play games, just find me on rom!
 
sin(pi) Inverse is the Leader's Choice!

The previous system was flawed as the most active OM would always be the one that was newly released, because of initial hype. So that system is removed and Leader's Choice has no restrictions. I've selected Inverse because it didn't have a successful start this generation and the Leader's Choice could be the boost it needs! #MakeInverseGreatAgain
 
Excited for this! Some threats:

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Return
- Horn Leech / Smart Strike / Zen Headbutt

Kills things, pure and simple. Smart Strike grants you slightly better coverage, but Horn Leech keeps you healthy and hits hard enough vs offensive teams.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Grassy Terrain: 225-265 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 303-357 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


Kartana @ Lum Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Return

Kills things, v2.0. Beedrillite's release makes it less effective, but a scarf set is very very viable.


Xurkitree @ Electrium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Signal Beam

Kills things on the special side. Pair it with Koko for extra pain:
+3 252 SpA Xurkitree Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 678-798 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Drill Run / Return / X-Scissor

Bee hasn't changed, except that you don't need to run Protect any more. Doesn't like Phero much, but it loves Tapu Lele.


Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam

Brutally strong. Coverage is near perfect, too. Alternate set:
Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam / Lunge

Lunge is an option for Chansey, but it doesn't do much anyway (~25%)


Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball / Thunderbolt

Checked by certain Fighting types, but another great wallbreaker.


Snorlax @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Recycle
- Return
- Toxic / Whirlwind / Belly Drum
OR
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat / Immunity
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Return
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Curselax does Curselax things. The first set is much weaker to Knock Off/status but otherwise finds it easier to set up, the latter is the standard and is pretty reliable at what it does.
 
SD + LO Kartana can't be countered by Avalugg either.

In general, Psychic and Grassy Terrain are going to be really important. Xurkitree is the most obvious Electric Terrain abuser, but Raichu-Alola seems promising too.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 364-429 (56.6 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Inverse was always an offensive metagame, but I think this generation just made it even more so.
 
ok NOBODY will want to use steel types here.....

best offensive types:
normal (SE on 3 types, neutral on the other 15)
poison
grass
bug

worst offensive types:
fighting
ground


best defensive types:
ice (1 WEAKNESS!)


worst defensive type:
steel (11 WEAKNESSES?!)
 
Hello all, due to inactivity, OM room and I will be taking over inverse in the hopes of reviving it for the new gen. I'll start off by saying I'm accepting sample teams for people who still have some lying around and we can talk about what the banlist for USUM Inverse should look like from this point forward
 
just gonna start off discussion by saying tapu bulu looks fuckin broken lol, amazing offensive/defensive typing with grassy surge makes it a top-tier threat without a doubt
 
have to contribute since Flint leads this now, yet another meta to ez him at

Mamoswine @ Icium Z
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

With a weakness to only Poison and Electric and resistances to Fire, Grass, Fighting, Water and Steel (and effectively Ice), I feel like Mamoswine could be a top tier threat. Most of the Pokemon that resist this threat have no recovery and Stone Edge hits a lot of the Pokemon that do (not that they'd see use.) This Pokemon bops threats such as Tapu Bulu, Greninja, and even Avalugg (252+ Atk Mamoswine Subzero Slammer (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 266-314 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). With a plethora of nice resistances for switching in, this Pokemon is definitely a top tier threat in this meta - I'm not sure exactly what checks right now, but since this is Day 1 for me I'm sure there'll be some stuff. ...Right?

A Fightinium Z Superpower set also doesn't sound bad or an AoA set.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Superpower neutralizes the Ghosts that would otherwise check its STABs alone, and Pursuit traps so many things such as Greninja, Tapu Bulu, and other stuff. I feel like Tyranitar is pretty mad in this tier actually lol what resists that? I guess p2 could count but idk, that seems like a pretty hard threat to beat as well. Tyranitar beats Kartana too which is pretty nice though I don't think that'll be too good in this meta since Steels lose out on a lot anyway, I guess it's still a pretty hard hitter though? Also lol this set checks Keld too...

Looking forward to playing this and stuff
 
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I’ve always been a fan of Inverse and since I’ve noticed the banlist is a little outdated (Mawilite is “unbanned” for example) I’d like to suggest a few Pokemon to potentially unban in an USUM setting.

metagross-mega.gif

Weaknesses: Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Rock, Steel
Resistances: Dark, Fire, Ghost, Ground

Mega Metagross had a terrific defensive typing in regular play, allowing it to be a leading factor in its ban compared to its bulk. In Inverse, Mega Metagross is weak to over half of the entire type chart with 10 whole weaknesses. Some of these include common offensive coverage types such as Poison, Grass, and Normal, making it very easy to take advantage of. While it’s offensive prowess remains, Mega Metagross might be worth looking at in this metagame, as it seems far easier to revenge kill with weaknesses to common offensive coverage typings. While it has 4 resistances, these aren’t particularly as common and are outweighed by its large amount of weaknesses.

genesect.gif

Weaknesses: Bug, Dragon, Fairy, Grass, Ice, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Steel
Resistances: Fire

Genesect, like Mega Metagross, has a god awful defensive typing, only it’s a lot worse. 9 weaknesses, all to common types including a quadruple weakness to Grass makes it absolutely mediocre defensively. Its only resistance to Fire is not relevant since Fire is not a particularly common offensive coverage type either. While Genesect still has access to Download and a good offensive typing, it seems very easy to revenge kill in this metagame. It’s walled by the likes of Mega Abomasnow and Tyranitar, for instance. I’m a bit more tentative on Genesect than I am on Mega Metagross but I believe that both of these deserve more attention. Perhaps some kind of Suspect Test would go a long way.
 
Haaku. said:
I’ve always been a fan of Inverse and since I’ve noticed the banlist is a little outdated (Mawilite is “unbanned” for example) I’d like to suggest a few Pokemon to potentially unban in an USUM setting.

metagross-mega.gif

Weaknesses: Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Rock, Steel
Resistances: Dark, Fire, Ghost, Ground

Mega Metagross had a terrific defensive typing in regular play, allowing it to be a leading factor in its ban compared to its bulk. In Inverse, Mega Metagross is weak to over half of the entire type chart with 10 whole weaknesses. Some of these include common offensive coverage types such as Poison, Grass, and Normal, making it very easy to take advantage of. While it’s offensive prowess remains, Mega Metagross might be worth looking at in this metagame, as it seems far easier to revenge kill with weaknesses to common offensive coverage typings. While it has 4 resistances, these aren’t particularly as common and are outweighed by its large amount of weaknesses.

genesect.gif

Weaknesses: Bug, Dragon, Fairy, Grass, Ice, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Steel
Resistances: Fire

Genesect, like Mega Metagross, has a god awful defensive typing, only it’s a lot worse. 9 weaknesses, all to common types including a quadruple weakness to Grass makes it absolutely mediocre defensively. Its only resistance to Fire is not relevant since Fire is not a particularly common offensive coverage type either. While Genesect still has access to Download and a good offensive typing, it seems very easy to revenge kill in this metagame. It’s walled by the likes of Mega Abomasnow and Tyranitar, for instance. I’m a bit more tentative on Genesect than I am on Mega Metagross but I believe that both of these deserve more attention. Perhaps some kind of Suspect Test would go a long way.
Click to expand...
If Solgaleo is unbanned and Mega Metagross is being considered for an unban then Necrozma Dusk Mane might be considered for an unban too, although obviously Ultranecronium would have to stay banned.
 
Announcements:
  • Klang's agreed to return to the council so it's the 3 of us at the helm
  • We have decided to ban Kartana effective immediately
  • We're opening the floor to discuss Tapu Bulu and Tapu Lele as potential problems in the tier and if they ought to be banned as well
  • Holding off on Snorlax and Diggersby atm until the above is decided
  • Ubanning Dusk Mane Necrozma will be considered later as well
 
Tapu Bulu: This pretty much fits every criteria possible to be considered broken. It has amazing offensive power with the type to complement it, can run a shitton of sets (Scarf, Band, AV, SubSeed, SD), also has good defensive presence with a good defensive typing. LITERALLY the ONLY thing that could keep this even remotely balanced is the average speed, but then again, Scarf exists. Leading towards ban.

Tapu Lele: Basically Bulu with speed. Ban.
 
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