ORAS Doubles OU 505, Peaked at 7th, 1762 ELO

[Matame]

Hi everyone and welcome to a new RMT featuring a sun team I built a while back around the idea of Charizard Y semi room. I was quite pleased with how this team turned out and gave it to a few friends who also really liked it, so I want to share it with more people. I might use this team a fair bit in the upcoming open, just due to how reliable it is. I dont know what else to say in the intro so lets get into the team.

S/o cooltext.com for the cool titles lol

Started with the mega. Charizard isnt as good as it used to be but I really wanted to try it out on semi room since it seemed to have a lot of potential on those style of teams.

Next added Calm Mind Cresselia. Yet again another mon/set that has fallen in popularity due to shifting meta trends. I just wanted a bulky, reliable trick room setter for this slot. Moonlight + sun seemed fun and Calm Mind is an interesting wincon.

Next I added Landorus for a variety of reasons. I wanted a check to opposing Landorus, a check to Heatran, a check to other miscellaneous fires that Chary and Cress couldn't deal with. I have 2 EQ immunes so Lando gets to EQ relatively freely.

Amoonguss + Calm Mind Cress pair really well together due to Amoonguss being able to redirect super effective attacks from it while it sets up its Calm Minds.

I wanted Heatran next so that I had a reliable switch in to opposing fire attacks that could do very high damage with the sun boosts. Behind a sub, Tran is an incredible threat.

I wanted Rotom as the last. Water on sun seemed a bit iffy but i wanted an additional way to check Kang, Lando (and pretty much every physical attacker), and water stab to better handle fires and ground types.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 88 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Charizard is definatly not as good at it user to be, but its still an incredibly potent threat. Stab Heat Waves do insane amounts of damage to everything unresisted, while Solar Beam can hit bulky waters and rock types. I opted for Hidden Power Ground instead of Overheat as the last. Im not a fan of getting walled by Tran Later in the game, and I feel on a bulkier set Overheat is a liability. This spread can survive an Adamant Kang return while outspeeding base 70's. The rest is dumped in speed.

Cresselia @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Trick Room
Calm Mind Cress is a really cool wincon that i've been having a lot of fun with. A well played calm mind Cress can pick up wins single-handedly. The main reason why I added Cress is as a reliable form of speed control in Trick Room. This can shut down much more speedy teams with Chary being able to have a field day/ I gave it goggles to make sure I didnt get stopped by Amoonguss with trick room up. Spread is really basic just to get the most out of its bulk since you will be raising special defence with Calm Mind anyway.

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
Landorus is a very spammable mon that fitted into this team quite nicely. I wanted a way to check Fires that Charizard found it hard to touch, a way to check opposing Landorus and checking Kangaskhan. I have two EQ immunes so Lando can EQ freely on this team. Moveset is standard for vest apart from Knock Off which I fould as a useful way to hit some psychic types and I didn't really see a need for a pivoting move such as U-Turn. Spread is really simple as I didn't need to hit any benchmarks.

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect
Amoonguss is incredibly bulky and incredibly effective on trick room. With it up, Amoonguss can pressure the opponent with spores. It also offfers redirection, which Calm Mind Cress highly appreciates. 252 HP and 172 Defense EVs and a Relaxed nature allow Amoonguss to always survive a Jolly Mega Metagross's Zen Headbutt. The rest of the EVs are placed into Special Defense to help Amoonguss survive attacks such as a Kyurem-B's Ice Beam. Thanks, analysis spreads :D (im terrible with spreads btw).

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect
Heatran was added to this team for a few reasons. First I wanted a way to switch into Pokemon who take advantage of Charizard's sun and use it to spam fire moves, most of which Charizard can't touch. Timid shuca Tran helps win the Tran mirrors. I opted for substitute instead of coverage to add even more pressure and I didn't see a need for flash cannon. Behind a sub Tran is a very big threat.

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
Rotom seems like a pecurliar choice for this team. Waters usually don't fit very well on sun, but I felt Rotom here could make an exception. I wanted a way to hit bulky waters and a way to hit opposing ground and fire types with ease. I also wanted additional checks to physical attackers like Lando and Kangaskhan. Rotom was also a cool pivot in practice with the aid of volt switch and it allowed me to get in threats like Charizard while Cresselia sets up trick room.

Even with the amount of tactics I have implemented to improve this matchup, hHeatran behind a sub or with the right coverage can put in a lot of work with this team. Assault Vest Lando and Shuca Tran are its most effective checks, but they can easily be taken care of.

Kyurem Black isn't directly threatened by anything on this team and can do a lot back. Best answers include sun spam with Charizrd and Heatran, and with shuca Heatran can do more damage and stay in longer vs Kyube.

These electric/flying mons can put in quite a bit of work against this team. They easily threaten Charizard and can do substantial damage with their coverage to everything else as well. Ass vest Lando has a good matchup, and Tran behind a sub can do notable damage.

Volcanion is a very large threat behind a sub. I mostly have to rely on threatening it with Rotom and Heatran, and hope that Lando doesn't get burned as it 2hko's it with Earthquake.

I've had a lot of fun with this team, and may end up using it a fair bit in open. Using it to qualify for DLT has makde me comfortable with this team, and I hope others may use it also. As shown, this team isn't perfect and I am open to criticism. Sun is an archetype I don't use too often, and experimenting with this was quite fun.
​

proof of peak

importable

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 88 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Cresselia @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Trick Room

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp

Shoutouts

Yoda2798, Stax, SpaceBass, ClaimingRobin, FloristtheBudew, mang@ team, cityfolk, CorruptedOmega, Demantoid, Paraplegic
Big shoutouts to Mishimono for being the best and smelliest user on the site <3
And GradeAGarchomp for being the greatest slut

 

[Sylveon.]

Nice team man, its obvious that from your peak you have put a lot of thought in this team, just one thing though rotom really looks a bit out of sorts, and justifying it as a kanga check doesn't cut when you have lando, cress and amoongus.

So, imo a good wide guard user is always good to have on a char-y team, so that at least you can deter your opponent from just spamming rock slide. So, I'd personally replace rotom with conk or aegi. While conk makes you a bit talon weak but it should be manageable also gives you a kanga killer + bisharp check. Whereas aegi, also checks kanga and fucks up any hyper voice spam and rock slide spams. Aegi also helps against opposing cresses. Both help you against kyurem btw.

Also maybe rocky helmet on amoongus to punish fake outs under TR.
Well thats all I guess, you can use the standard wide guard sets for both.
Best of luck man !! :0)

 

[talkingtree]

Hi friend cool team I really like CM Cress + Sun, especially now that some of the hype has died down so people aren't running things like Toxic Suicune.

As darksylvion noticed, Rotom-W does seem sort of out of place, and I also like the suggestion of Conkeldurr there. It provides you with something that still deals with Heatran and Lando-T, greatly improves your Kang + Kyurem-B matchups, and provides another hard hitter under TR. I'd consider an AV set, as often times the bluff of Wide Guard is enough to prevent things like Rock Slide and Hyper Voice, and this also allows you to have a better matchup against those bulky Electric-/Flying-types. However, the standard Wide Guard set would also be beneficial.

Aside from that, the only changes I could see would be rather minor. Zard can actually run 0 Atk and retain HP Ground so maybe Swagger will hurt less? It's really not a big deal but figured I'd mention it. Personally, when I run AV Lando-T, I prefer a slightly bulkier spread with 112 HP / 4 SpD to live a Zard Y Overheat in Sun. Typically I'll use 220 Spe Jolly as well to outspeed Adamant Kang, but since this team is semiroom you could consider 144 Spe Adamant, which outruns Modest Heatran. You could consider Flamethrower > Substitute on Heatran, which is nice because it doesn't miss gets around Wide Guard, and can take advantage of Shuca Berry by getting a chance to OHKO Lando-T in Sun (232+ SpA Heatran Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T in Sun: 289-342 (90.3 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO). Flash Cannon is also a decent option because it chunks Kyube that think they can just click EPower and watch you drop.

That's all I've got, good luck in Open / DLT!

Summary

Rotom-W -->
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist / Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Def
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

OR

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Wide Guard

Landorus-T
EVs: 112 HP / 248 Atk / 4 SpD / 144 Spe

Heatran
Flamethrower > Substitute
OR
Flash Cannon > Substitute

 

[Level 51]

Ah! I've been meaning to post in this thread for a while, but I guess I never quite got around to it so talkingtree and darksylvion have beaten me to the punch. While the choice to switch Rotom-W to Conkeldurr does improve your Heatran and Kyurem-Black matchups, it unfortunately does remove one of your ways to deal with Volcanion, leaving you with something like zero Volcanion switchins. An overall change I'd suggest to your team would be to replace Rotom-W with a Conkeldurr, but also to replace Amoonguss with Zapdos (with Thunder Wave or Tailwind), removing the Trick Room option on your team and replacing it with a faster option. You could also replace Trick Room with Icy Wind on Cresselia to shift your team to a faster mode. From personal experience, I've always felt Charizard-Y and Trick Room to be a rather lacklustre combination unless the rest of your team can really take advantage of the twisted dimensions, since many, many Pokemon naturally underspeed a Charizard-Y, meaning you have to remove a good number of checks before Charizard-Y can really come in safely under Trick Room; otherwise, it tends to get one turn on the field before an opponent brings in something that either walls it or just stops it cold under Trick Room. Tailwind (or Icy Wind or Thunder Wave), on the other hand, lets Charizard outrun some of its erstwhile counters (Landorus-T, for example), while it also allows Charizard to continue to feast on its standard prey; for instance, an Amoonguss can't take advantage of the twisted dimensions to put your Charizard to sleep (or force it out) with Tailwind or Icy Wind or Thunder Wave instead of Trick Room.

Regardless of whether you make the above change or not, I'd suggest making some more minor changes to sets. First of all, I'd suggest switching your Landorus-Therian to a Jolly one with U-turn. I feel that apart from Scarf Landorus-T, other Landorus-T sets should always run Jolly to outpace neutral-natured Hydreigon so you don't have to worry about them dropping a Draco Meteor or setting up a Tailwind before you can do anything to them. Assault Vest Landorus-T also has, I feel, the primary role of a pivot, and U-turn really helps with that role. Furthermore, in this role, when you're U-turning in and out, the extra 10% damage generally doesn't make a huge difference; hence my suggestion for a Jolly nature instead of Adamant.

Finally, I'd suggest changing your Heatran EV spread to a more defensive one. I find that a lot of users like having an offensive Heatran on Sun teams, which seems to make sense at first. However, once you're in the Sun (and maybe even with a Flash Fire boost if you're lucky), Heatran's EV investment doesn't make that huge a difference in the damage it outputs with Heat Wave. Meanwhile, I feel that Heatran's defining factor is actually its bulk, which is especially amplified on a Sun team like this (which effectively removes its Water weakness, to an extent). Thus, I'd like to suggest this defensive EV spread that I also recommended to Elise:

On Heatran, a spread of 228 HP / 8 Def / 20 SAtk / 252 Spe (still Timid) could be interesting; again, from personal experience I find that Substitute Heatran (especially Substitute Lefties) generally doesn't require all that much offensive investment. Here's what it does:

• Adamant Landorus-T cannot break your Substitutes in one hit with Rock Slide
• Jolly Kangaskhan only have a 15/16 chance (barring crits) to break your substitutes on the first hit of Sucker Punch or Power-Up Punch (to guarantee that they can't break your Substitute barring a critical hit, go to 28 Def instead, taking the 20 EVs out of SAtk, or shift the defensive EVs to 132 HP / 100 Def with 4 EVs to spare. The latter not recommended.)
• 98.9% chance to 2HKO 252/4 Volcanion (99.6% chance to 2HKO 252/0 Volcanion) with Earth Power
• Still 2HKOs Landorus-T after a Flash Fire boost (read: does >50% to a Lando-T switchin after Flash Fire) (in your [Matame's] case, this could apply to Sun as well as to Flash Fire, so it's a more common scenario)

All the best with your team!

 

[Test Bot #]

...replace Amoonguss with Zapdos (with Thunder Wave or Tailwind)...
....
You could also replace Trick Room with Icy Wind on Cresselia to shift your team to a faster mode.
....
I'd suggest switching your Landorus-Therian to a Jolly one with U-turn.
...

I always found the effort to activate Trick Room to be harder than simply using Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, and Tailwind, and I often find it harder to take full advantage of Trick Room due to simple tactics such as just stalling or spore spamming. Often, Hoopa-U would be a good choice to solve such issues, but I disagree that Zard is an actual Trick Room abuser. Like Level 51 said, I suggest that putting Icy Wind over Trick Room (as I do with my Cress) would ease your plays. And yeah, put U-turn on Land-T because you want to maintain momentum and consistency; I'd replace Knock Off.

Also, I noticed that you have an awkward Rotom-W in your team. If you really want a Water type Mon, I suggest that you use Volcanion because it is a nice pivot for your Zard as Sunny Day ends or had already ended, allowing your Volcanion to do what it got to do. In addition, it doesn't require Shuca Berry (like Heatran do) since it should survive an Earthquake or Earth Power; just make sure to have 44 Special Defence investment to survive Modest Thunderbolt (from Zapdos or Thundy). Finally, it obviously takes advantage of Sunny Day, so why not.

• Thus, if you choose to put Volcanion on your team, you will replace two Mons, giving you one extra slot. In replacement of Rotom-W, Zapdos or Thundurus should give you ample more support to your overall team.

For the matter of Amoonguss, it doesn't really have to be in the team to help out of Cresselia or its other members; they should be able to manage just fine. Rather, it may be more better to have a Wide Guard user. Aegislash would give you the remaining coverage that you may need, or you can choose to use Iron Fist Conkeldurr (w/ Lum Berry), although it will make you more Talonflame weak. You should already know what Aegislash does, so I'll tell you why some rather choose to use Conkeldurr. It's Ice Punch will OHKO (-1) Landorus-T and it's priority Mach Punch will 2HKO Mega Kangaskhan and Heatran (w/ Leftovers)... or you can be Gutsy and OHKO them with Drain Punch / Hammer Arm.\

Always, have fun with your team! I think the meta should appreciate Cresselia more; that thing is really annoying.

 

[deoxys speed]

yo I just have a few suggestions. I wholeheartedly agree with darksylveon and talkingtree that rotom is kind of out of place and I think Conkeldurr(the Life Orb Wide Guard one) is the answer. It deals with all of the things on your threat list and even things you didn't list but should have like Hydreigon which I think is the biggest threat to your team. For Landorus I don't like your spread or the fact that you don't have U-Turn which you need because Hoopa eats your team otherwise. So I would replace Knock Off with U-Turn and use a spread of 112 HP 164 Attack 8 Defense 4 Special Defense and 220 Speed with a Jolly nature. This lets you out speed Hydreigon and non speed boosting natured base 100's, the attack lets you KO Hydreigon with Superpower after 1 Life Orb hit(252 attack does 95 min ://) and the HP and 4 Special Defense lets you take an Overrheat from Zard-Y like talkingtree mentioned.

I would use Moonblast over Psyshock on Cresselia because you really need another thing to hit mons like Hoopa, Hydreigon, and Latios. You still set up on Amoonguss and have Heatran/Charizard to nuke that anyway. I'm not a fan of Shuca Sub Tran but it's not completely awful but if you're not liking the Talonflame matchup Ancient Power over Sub can help out with Talon and opposing Zard. Lastly you don't really have a Kangaskhan switch in so Rocky Helmet on Amoonguss can help you in that department.

Hope I was of some help if you have any questions feel free to ask n_n

TEAM

Cresselia @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Trick Room

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 112 HP / 164 Atk / 8 Def / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Protect

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Wide Guard