Other 6th Gen Pokemon UU Candidate Speculation Thread

[koista12]

Now that Drizzle has been banned, do you think Drought will follow after it? I personally think that Ninetales will be banned, but Vulpix might not be. The problem with Vulpix is that it is an exceedingly weak Pokemon, so to run it on your team is basically going 5v6, as Vulpix is useless outside of Drought. Flash Fire users are pretty common, and completely wall sun teams. Again, just my opinion.

I don't think sand will be banned (That rhymed!), because it really doesn't have the abusers that sun and rain have. It has Stoutland, and Cacturne, that's all I can think of as far as lower tier sand abusers. If its banned I'd be surprised.

Hail is only useful for Blizzard spam, and with Kyurem B gone, hail is back to where it was last gen.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Now that Drizzle has been banned, do you think Drought will follow after it? I personally think that Ninetales will be banned, but Vulpix might not be. The problem with Vulpix is that it is an exceedingly weak Pokemon, so to run it on your team is basically going 5v6, as Vulpix is useless outside of Drought. Flash Fire users are pretty common, and completely wall sun teams. Again, just my opinion.

I don't think sand will be banned (That rhymed!), because it really doesn't have the abusers that sun and rain have. It has Stoutland, and Cacturne, that's all I can think of as far as lower tier sand abusers. If its banned I'd be surprised.

Hail is only useful for Blizzard spam, and with Kyurem B gone, hail is back to where it was last gen.

Maybe, but for the time being, I'm going with no. The only Drizzle user out there was Politoed, and it got banned because specs hydro pumps in the rain were unfairly overpowered. Ninetales is less powerful offensively, and more vulnerable defensively, so I don't think he warrants a quick ban. Hippopatas isn't at all viable in UU, and banning Snow Warning would destroy the one claim to fame Abamasnow has. Rain boosted specs hydro pumps was clearly something that the UU overlords though made the UU metagame unbalanced, but sun boosted fire blasts and hail blizzards don't warrant the same reaction in a metagame where instant weather is too short term to affect more than 1 or 2 pokemon. I think there's a slight chance a complex ban (something like no drought + Solar Power) might occur, but that's not an immediate possibility

 

[koista12]

Yeah, I didn't mean that Ninelates would be quickbanned, it's obvious he won't. But he may still be banned in the future.

 

[NightFire7]

Can anyone tell me what is the cut off usage percentage for UU? Just like how the cut off percentage for OU is 3.4 what is the cut off percentage that determines what is in UU and what drops into RU? And even though its still early, does anyone know what the current usage statistics are like?

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

^ The cutoff is 3.41 for every tier

Bisharp is amazing in UU, but with OU players realizing how good it is as well, I don't think it will remain UU for very long. Terrakion is right on the edge of OU and UU. If it falls to UU it will be amazing there; and it could possibly happen. Terrakion in UU, that just sounds weird.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Not to start a bunch of theorymoning, but if bisharp heads off to OU, what Pokemon would take its place as an anti sticky web Pokemon? With all the sticky web I have seen, I would assume that something else would have to take its place in UU. Would competitive milotic or wigglytuff become a thing?

 

[noknuckles]

Defog is already a top-notch anti-sticky web, especially with stuff like Crobat and Latias being able to float over the web. Bisharp is just an anti anti-sticky web as it comes in on a Defog and gets a boost.

Contrary Shuckle can come in on a Defog and get an evasion boost, though that is hella gimmicky and won't catch on as a legit strat. It's possible to use Shuckle, but using one that is actually capable of capitalizing on an evasion boost is just layering gimmicks upon gimmicks (Defog evasion boost + Shell Smash with Infestation trapping for example). Aaaaand of course, it can come in when Sticky Web is up and get that much needed speed boost

Nothing is quite like Bisharp and I think it would be a mistake to try to replace Bisharp. If you find a combination that utilizes Competitive/Defiant/Contrary well, then great, but trying to plug something in place of Bisharp would be a bad idea

 

[NightFire7]

^ The cutoff is 3.41 for every tier

Bisharp is amazing in UU, but with OU players realizing how good it is as well, I don't think it will remain UU for very long. Terrakion is right on the edge of OU and UU. If it falls to UU it will be amazing there; and it could possibly happen. Terrakion in UU, that just sounds weird.

Thanks man for the cut off percentage info.

I have tested Bisharp and honestly this thing is an absolute savage. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in OU because it is that good. I find it funny that knock off that used to be just a really weak move used only on defensive pokes now can just absolutely maim pokes in this gen.

 

[FlyThai]

Bisharp does fear the Mega Lucario and Ground Types such as Garchomp, however, even in OU, it's very good with it's ability to benefit from Sticky Web, and Defog, making it more dangerous. Bisharp in UU is gonna be a scary sight to see.

Standard Jolly Garchomp is OHKO'd by a +2 Sucker Punch from Bisharp with a life orb. So Garchomp isnt a problem unless he's running sub. Mega Lucario is a full counter though but any good player should deal with him before trying to sweep with Bisharp.

Based on my experience in the UU beta Bisharp is a top tier threat and can become a king if used correct. He's the reason why i believe Latias and Celebi will stay UU because Bisharp destroys both, among other things.

 

[Expulso]

@ Sticky Web conversation:

Empoleon gets Defiant, as do Primeape and Purugly. I can see Primeape or Purugly running a Choice Scarf set, but Empoleon's special =[

 

[GenjiHyuuga]

@ Sticky Web conversation:

Empoleon gets Defiant, as do Primeape and Purugly. I can see Primeape or Purugly running a Choice Scarf set, but Empoleon's special =[

Yeah, I've been using Empoleon with Defiant recently against some Defoggers.
I guess it could be a pseudo-filler for Bisharp with SD and Aqua Jet? plus decent (just decent) defenses.

And SR or defog as another move on top of that...

 

[Bent1ey]

Hail is only useful for Blizzard spam, and with Kyurem B gone, hail is back to where it was last gen.

Regular Kyurem not gone.

 

[koista12]

Oh, my bad. I didn't know they were both in the tier.

 

[Boltaway]

Yeah, I've been using Empoleon with Defiant recently against some Defoggers.
I guess it could be a pseudo-filler for Bisharp with SD and Aqua Jet? plus decent (just decent) defenses.

And SR or defog as another move on top of that...

I don't really think it's worth it running Defiant on Empoleon. He has a weak attack stat to begin with and increasing it really isn't that helpful when you are better off using special attacks like the SubPetaya set or bulkier builds that wouldn't utilize attack to begin with. Remember, Defiant doesn't block Defog's effects in anyways, it just simply increases Attack by +2.

That being said, I could picture Scarf Braviary being a good Defiant user -- he has a great movepool and stat distribution for his typing, and with a base 123 attack state (only 2 points below Bisharp) and a powerful Brave Bird or Superpower or U-Turn, can seriously maim Defog users like Latias or Empoleon, although risking a wrong prediction can be seriously grave. Primeape, presuming he remains in RU/NU is a competent user as well and gives a reason to not run Vital Spirit.

Finally, Tornadus-I can easily run a physical / mixed set with Defiant, provided you don't feel the need for Prankster, which is generally preferred over Defiant as an ability. In fact, Prankster has the added bonus of priority Taunt, which can thwart any potential Defogs.

Also, which I'm talking about Taunt, has anybody been running Taunt Bisharp? I've been running Taunt / Sucker Punch / Knock Off / Iron Head with LO and it's amazing as a stallbreaker and forces you to either attack (Sucker Punch'd) or switch (Knock Off'd). I see a lot of people running Swords Dance (which is great for capitalizing on how many switches he forces), but I find Taunt to be really effective since most Pokemon that can run Substitute or a status move will attempt to use it in order to evade a Sucker Punch.

 

[Bent1ey]

Oh, my bad. I didn't know they were both in the tier.

If you think about it, it's only logical to have it there if the superior Kyurem-B ended up in UU too.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

There's a difference between Knock Off coming from 125 Attack and Knock Off coming from 86 Atk, especially when the former is further boosted by STAB. Empoleon isn't going to do much with Defiant (the most common physical attack it pretty much runs is Knock Off...). bisharp can come in on defog and immediately pose a threat to the opponent. At best empoleon is just going to go from 10-20% with Knock off to 20-40%... big, but not that big. just use torrent instead and get a cheap kill with scald if you're dying or something.

the thing that makes bisharp stand out from other defiant users (except maybe tornadus) is that he can walk into defog and do something immediately to threaten common defoggers (latias gets nailed by everything, crobat can only heat wave while bisharp sucker punches his face, empoleon can possibly tank +2 knock off but is pretty much crippled forever). primeape can't do this (it doesn't even get knock off!) and only threatens empoleon.

the best counter to bisharp is cobalion who laughs at everything bisharp does (except for the occasional low kick bisharp). unfortunately it's not going to appreciate a knock off to the face still and he gets worn down pretty easily. >_>"

staraptor is a pretty useful substitute for people who're used to talonfagraping everything in ou. it's not blindingly fast, but scarf reckless bb still hits like a truck and is a very good revenge killer. it's a handy check to people who need something to deal with keldeo and heracross. too bad he still can't take a bisharp sucker punch to save his life >_>"