A Classic Core With a Twist! (A OU RMT)

[kay-tay]

A Classic Core With a Twist

I've kinda been wondering around recently in Gen 5- not particularly stuck to any tier. I've peaked my head into both UU and even RU and found them to be a little hectic right now, so until it cools off, I'm off into the depths of OU to hopefully make a successful team. After extensive testing, this is what the team is now:

Originally I started with Jirachi-Rotom Wash core that complemented themselves well and could check quite a few things in OU currently. I wanted to change up the core a little bit, because I hate the "cookie-cutter" teams that seem to be going around. I wanted to replace Gliscor, which is usually the last member of the trio. I have tried Gliscor but just never found it very effective for me. Whether I was playing it wrong or it just did not suit my team- the reason why is not fully discovered yet. But, I wanted something that could take on similar threats that Gliscor does. I found Zapdos which, while using HP flying, could take on Conkeldurr, something that Jirachi or Rotom could not do very well. I found Zapdos to be lackluster and went on the hunt for something better. I finally found Nidoqueen. It can effectivly take on many of the pokemon that Gliscor can handle, namely Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Heatran was merely added because I've heard good feedback from people using both the Defensive and Balloon sets, of which I've picked the Air Balloon set. At this point, I noticed I lacked a good offensive presence, so I added Calm Mind Vrizion into the mix for mainly the same reason as Heatran. Later, I found out that it's Physical Defense was less than desired and after trying an even less effective bulky one, it still did not deliver, so I replaced it with Latias and never looked back. Hitmontop came on the scene as a spinner with priority, but didn't have quite the punch that I wanted, and my team did not fear Stealth Rock particularly, so I dropped Hitmontop for Heracross. Heatran was recently replaced with Bronzong after realizing I was weak against sandstorm threats such Excadrill. It also alleviated my ground weakness. Heracross is officially replaced with Miensaho who can utilize Hidden Power and can revenge multiple set up threats.
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In Depth

Mienshao (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Hi Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stone Edge

The Revenge killer and a make shift sweeper of sorts. Mienshao comes on the scene as my primary answer to Ferrothorn, which is a thorn in my side. (sorry for pun) After Stealth Rock damage, Mienshao has more than a 50% chance to OHKO the standard Ferrothorn with Hi Jump Kick. U-turn scouts switch-ins for him and lands a Super Effective hit on Psychics that may switch in. Stone Edge allows me to hit dangerous threats such as Salamence. Hidden Power Ice gets Gliscor and other 4x weak pokemon that aren't hit by Hi Jump Kick. Regenerator allows it to come in on hazards with little problems and it is usually at full health. It can't take any hits though, and will most likely get KO'd by Power Whip and Gyro Ball, so something that can take on Ferrothorn a little more reliable while still being a good revenge killer would be helpful.

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Refresh
- Recover

Pretty much the star of the show if you will. Latias is pretty much what will win me games, and saves me from quite a few threats that could otherwise blow right through me such as Rain. Once steels are killed or on their last leg, Latias comes in and cleans out the rest. It usually sets up on walls such as Defensive Politoed, Vaporeon, and Jellicent that do not carry Shadow Ball. Dragon Pulse is for the STAB and gets good neutral coverage. Calm Mind lets me blow threw teams, Refresh means I can set up on walls much easier, and Recover lets me stick around. I don't feel the need to change Latias all that much, but a different set might be worth trying.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
(0 IVs in speed)
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Gyro Ball

Pretty much the standard Bronzong. It repalces Heatran as it is a more reliable counter to Excadrill and Gliscor. Hidden Power Ice 2HKOs most Poison Heal Gliscors and Landlorus, while Earthquake lands a Super Effective hit against Excadrill. Gyro Ball is for the STAB and hits fast sweepers harder than the other options. Stealth Rock allows for an easier sweep with Latias. The spread allows Bronzong to take as many physical hits as possible to complement Jirachi.

Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Roar
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Toxic Spikes

Before you go bashing Nidoqueen, it does actually have advantages over Gliscor. She can set up Toxic Spikes, she can phaze out dangerous things (like the threats previously mentioned, Terrakion, etc.) Absorbs Toxic Spikes, which very useful because I have no spinner on this team and helps with stall, and it resists Rock. Even though it may not have the offensive capabilties of Gliscor, Earth Power and Sheer Force can usually get the job done and wear down opponents. Fire Blast is added because it takes a huge chunk of damage out of it, KOing it with some prior damage.

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

The second member of the core, it provides the additional Water and Ground resistance for the team. The EVs here are a little sketchy and I would like some help with them. I don't like the standard 128 HP spread because Rotom would be just too frail and I need it to be able to take hits. So, I tried to even out the defenses as best I could. Will-O-Wisp helps me against Physical switch ins (especially Ferrothorn) and makes Nidoqueen's job much easier. Pain Split is for annoying Chansey and for when I can't get a Wish in time from Jirachi. Nothing really else to say here, as Rotom checks a bunch of things and complements Jirachi well. I would like some suggestions on a new EV spread however.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Wish
- Protect

Overall the Standard Special Defensive Jirachi. Wish is just too invaluable to my team to give it up, as many of them do not have forms of recovery and need to keep healthy by it as a result. Body Slam provides Paralysis and Iron Head for the Flinch, which makes the infamous combination. Protect allows me to heal up Jirachi from its own wishes if need be and scouts moves from Choiced pokemon, which is always a plus. The EVs are for max sturdiness against Special Attacks while giving Iron head and body slam a small boost. From what I can tell it doesn't really need change all that much.

And That's the Team!
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[Aeromence]

u could try a lucario over heracross, he has extremespeed, and a very powerful close combat, as well as good coverage moves like crunch and ice punch. u could use a scarf on him, or try a SD varient

 

[Lemonade]

Overall solid team. I like how you aren't using the cliche'd Rotom-Rachi-Glisc Core , and how you are using the rather obscure Nidoqueen to fill Gliscor's spot.

Mienshao is essentially a better Heracross; the only thing you lack is Bug-type STAB.

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power Ice

functions similarly to your Heracross, but Mienshao can revenge kill DD Mence, QD Volcarona, etc. with its great 105 base speed. U-turn is for scouting, and works well with Regenerator. HJK does have iffy accuracy, but Regenerator makes a miss less detrimental. HP Ice is for Gliscor and other 4x weaks.

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Instead of Mienshao, I suggest Scarf Terrakion. There are some advantages Terrakion has over both:
- slightly bulkier than hera, and a lot more than mienshao
- has a naturally higher base speed, you now can revenge more threats - DD Hax r us, and DD mence, and outspeed any scarf Sazendora (that hydra pseudo legendary). All of these are impossible for hera to do.
- slightly more powerful than hera
- has better coverage in the form of rock, fighting, normal, and bug (you can put eq in if you want).

I suggest putting HP Grass / Electric on tran. The main point ofo HP ice is to deal with dragons and gliscor. Your Rotom walls Gliscor for days on end, and the dragons already are checked by rachi. You can also try Taunt on the last slot for tran, it helps with stall, and he can outpace bulky nite and gyara in case you ever double switch into each other.

 

[Jupiter Djinn]

I agree that both Mienshao or Terrakion could prove more useful than Heracross due to their higher base speed, at least when it comes to revenging set-up sweepers.

A spread of 252 HP/112 Def/144 Spe on Rotom-W would allow you to out-speed max+ Ttar and Adamant Breloom. This lets you beat them out of the gate and tag a Burn on them before they respond. If the speed doesn't interest you, those 44 SAtk EVs should probably be allocated to Def as I'm not sure any KOs are secured by leaving them. Physical bulk will be important when dealing with Excadrill and company.

I can see AntiMetaGame's suggestion of HP Grass on Heatran as tech against Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Rotom-W, which you may find welcome. Additionally, you could use Flame Charge to give Heatran a way to clean up late-game.

Nidoqueen being weak to ground-type moves makes her less impressive against Excadrill and Landorus, but I see how Terrakion can be dealt with. Heatran (balloon intact) and Rotom-W have the ability to check those sand threats, but may be found less reliable. If you find that you have trouble against sand, it may be worth it to consider Bronzong or Tangrowth.

 

[Griff]

Instead of Mienshao, I suggest Scarf Terrakion. There are some advantages Terrakion has over both:
- slightly bulkier than hera, and a lot more than mienshao
- has a naturally higher base speed, you now can revenge more threats - DD Hax r us, and DD mence, and outspeed any scarf Sazendora (that hydra pseudo legendary). All of these are impossible for hera to do.
- slightly more powerful than hera
- has better coverage in the form of rock, fighting, normal, and bug (you can put eq in if you want).

I suggest putting HP Grass / Electric on tran. The main point ofo HP ice is to deal with dragons and gliscor. Your Rotom walls Gliscor for days on end, and the dragons already are checked by rachi. You can also try Taunt on the last slot for tran, it helps with stall, and he can outpace bulky nite and gyara in case you ever double switch into each other.

I second this, the only thing mienshao has going for him is fake turn, hi jump kick is a plus too, but I vouch for terrakion.

 

[Rackham]

Before you go bashing Nidoqueen, it does actually have advantages over Gliscor

Although this may be true, you don't have any solid counter to Excadrill as well as having 3 ground-weak pokemon and your two levitators are both OHKOed by a +2 Return after SR damage. I know Heatran can check it with balloon, but I doubt he'll still have it late-game, when Excadrill normally comes out, furthermore, he is 2HKOed by +2 Rock slide, so he cannot switch in safely. I'm assuming that you want to keep Nidoqueen and Jirachi (and not replace for either Gliscor or Bronzing), so I'd suggest replacing Heracross for CB Azumarill.

 

[Griff]

Although this may be true, you don't have any solid counter to Excadrill as well as having 3 ground-weak pokemon and your two levitators are both OHKOed by a +2 Return after SR damage. I know Heatran can check it with balloon, but I doubt he'll still have it late-game, when Excadrill normally comes out, furthermore, he is 2HKOed by +2 Rock slide, so he cannot switch in safely. I'm assuming that you want to keep Nidoqueen and Jirachi (and not replace for either Gliscor or Bronzing), so I'd suggest replacing Heracross for CB Azumarill.

Azumarill's light in OU is just checking excadrill, I could see it working on a rain team but ehh, I don't that's right for a bulky team with no weather.

 

[kay-tay]

Thank you everyone for the feedback!

A scarfed Terrakion would sound nice over Heracross, but that would leave me with 4 Ground weaknesses and with only 2 immunities to back it up, so I am reluctant to try it. Mienshao does look good also, especially with Hidden Power thrown in the mix, but I need something that could take a hit on occasion and Mienshao doesn't really have that ability, especially with the Naive nature.

CB Azumarill sounds good also! It will give me another tool against Rain which is nice. However, I am skeptical of the choice because I am not sure if Aqua Jet can do enough damage to Thundurus and other key threats, which I am kind of paranoid about. If I make this change, I will have problems with Ferrothorn and I don't want to risk by balloon popping switching in to a Power Whip or Gyro Ball. Predicting a switch and hitting it with Super Power is not always an easy thing to do.

 

[Rackham]

CB Azumarill vs Thunderus Aqua Jet: 80~94.33% (OHKO after R
SR Damage)

Seriously, it even 2HKOs Gliscor with AJ; you have nothing to worry about

 

[Oblivion IX]

First of all, I want to say that this is an awesome and well built team! However, I do see you having a problem against fast, physical attackers like Excadrill which won't have any problems getting past Nidoqueen. To help remedy this problem you could try using Skarmory in place of Heracross as it provides you with another physical wall and a way of setting-up Spikes which will help your team a lot along with some changes that we'll discuss later.

That's the only major change that I feel should be made some let's just move onto some little nit-picks. First of all, seeing as Hidden Power [Ice] and Dragon Pulse are completely redundant on the same set change the later to Stealth Rock as this will free a space for Nidoqueen to use Toxic Spikes. Your team will benefit greatly with the use of all three entry hazards as it'll make a Latias sweep much easier to achieve. Speaking of Nidoqueen try using the following set over your current one. It maintains that strong physical bulk, but takes full advantage of Nidoqueen's power due to its new ability, Sheer Force. Finally, try using this spread on Latias Timid, 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd with Roar over Refresh as it gives you as much physical bulk as possible while still allowing you to outspeed positive natured Landorus.

Skarmory

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SAtk)
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Nidoqueen

Nidoqueen @ Leftovers
Trait: Sheer Force
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
- Toxic Spikes
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Summary:
~ Skarmory > Heracross
~ SR > Dragon Pulse on Heatran
~ Different Nidoqueen set
~ Different EV Spread on Latas

Good team and good luck.

 

[kay-tay]

I did some editing, and changed Nidoqueen's set, but I kept Roar because Earth Power is only a 4HKO on Standard Bulk Up Conkeldurr. Fire Blast helps with Ferrothorn, and is needed because can lay down spikes like crazy against me. Latias' spread was changed but I need Refresh as it allows me to set up on status as Toxic would run the set.

Heracross' spot is still up for grabs though, after testing all the options given to me, Skarmory and CB Azumarill seemed to be the best. However, Azumarill opens up the the Ferrothorn weakness more and has lackluster coverage, but when I try Skarmory I just don't have the offensive presence and I feel like I'm running Semi-stall of sorts and that was not my intention. With Skarmory I also lack something fast / with priority that can revenge dangerous things.

 

[kay-tay]

Going to bump this because I replaced Heatran with Bronzong to deal with Sandstorm threats, and Mienshao replaces Heracross, although I would like a better way to deal with Ferrothorn which sets up spikes against my team and lowers Jirachi's tanking abilities.

 

[Rackham]

If hazards are that much of a problem for you, perhaps you could try a Rapid Spin Starmie set over Mienshao, as its fast enough to revenge a whole bunch of stuff and has better defensive typing as well as natural cure and recover allowing more switch in opportunities.

 

[kay-tay]

Starmie can handle most spikers / Stealth Rock layers, but it doesn't do very well against Ferrothorn. Should I put Hidden Power Fire on it to handle it? It may be too specialized though, and I might have to give up recover for it.

 

[Rackham]

Or maybe run Scald (if you get that burn, Ferrothorn's survivability is severly hampered) or maybe even Hitmontop- its a fighting type and has all sorts of priority to revenge with, the only problem is that its beaten by Jellicent, OU's No.1 spin-blocker. He can also help with stuff like Excadrill and Landorus if Bronzong dies.

 

[kay-tay]

Well usually it comes in on Rotom, so I usually burn it with Will-o-Wisp anyway. But 4/6 pokemon are pretty much walled by it, and Nidoqueen can not always get a OHKO, in rain it is even more trouble some.

Hitmontop I've tried before obviously but It can't deal with Salamence, Volcarona (252 HP Hitmontop is almost always OHKO'd by a +1 Fire Blast with Stealth Rock, and is always KO'd with a Life Orb, even without Stealth Rock), etc.

I think I can only replace Mienshao with something that can deal with Ferrothorn, or something that can revenge threats, but not both.

 

[Rackham]

Okay, so what I do when I have one team slot to change and a few different threats that I need to be able to check: Add in a scarfer. Scarfed pokemon are great for acting as rather more generalised checks to stuff, plugging the gaps in your team. For this reason, maybe try a Scarftar or Scarf Terrakion? They can both deal with Mence and Volcarona (although Tyranitar is slightly more shaky). The main reason you'd use TTar over Terrakion is to help eliminate opposing weathers (however be sure you don't try to use him to counter weather, this is intended more as a perk for choosing him).

 

[kay-tay]

I think I may go back to Scarf Terrakion, because I tested him while I had Heatran, so it increased my ground weakness, but I don't have Heatran anymore. It doesn't like Power Whip or Gyro Ball, and even Thunder Wave, but I think I can get around that. I have Weather pretty much covered for the most part, Latias takes Rain and Sun, Bronzong takes Sandstorm well, and hail is handled by Bronzong, Jiachi, and (eventually) Terrakion, and Rotom helps with Rain. I will try both, but I think I might be running Terrakion.

 

[IronBullet]

Hey,

Definitely replace Mienshao with Terrakion. It's faster, bulkier, more powerful and has two great STABs to clean up with late-game. An ideal moveset would be Stone Edge | X-Scissor | Close Combat | Earthquake.

Latias wants max speed, the extra defense will not stop Tyranitar or Scizor from defeating you while the speed is incredibly useful. Losing the speed is not worth it as now you are defeated by Haxorus, Hydreigon, Salamence, Virizion etc which are all Pokemon Latias is supposed to check. The moveset is fine, Substitute is an alternative over Refresh, it works well with T-Spikes and allows Latias escape from Pursuit effectively.

Be careful around Volcarona, if it gets a couple of Quiver Dances off it could mean trouble, which is not unreasonable seeing as it gets plenty of chances to set up. You could try something unorthodox such as Rock Slide on Bronzong to give it one less setup opportunity, but if you're careful with Terrakion you shouldn't have much problem.

You have a huge Ferrothorn problem, it can freely set up Spikes on 2/3 of your team, and as you have no spinner it could be a real problem. I know you want to avoid this, but a core of Heatran + Gliscor over Bronzong + Nidoqueen would solve all if your problems. Specially Defensive Heatran counters Volcarona, Thundurus and the rest while Gliscor handles most physical attackers. If you really don't want this, try HP Fire on Rotom-W over WoW, with enough investment to get a clean 2HKO. Perhaps you could just revert to the standard spread of 112 HP | 252 Sp Atk | 144 Speed and a Modest nature. Hence instead of burning it you can just outright get rid of it. The bulk you previously had isn't really missed since your defensive core is very solid already.

Good luck!