A Door to the Light - A 5th Gen Rain Team

Every light must fade! Every heart must return to darkness!
- Ansem to Sora, Kingdom Hearts

INTRODUCTION:​
Welcome everyone! This is my first time posting an RMT in a very long time (almost a year) and my first time ever posting both an Ubers and Gen V team. To be honest, I had lost the competitive spark for quite some time, but a few months ago I picked up the old DS and fell in love with Black and White. After beating both games several times (seriously I was addicted), I decided to try the competitive aspect of the game once more, just for giggles. Just as I knew I would, I became slightly obsessed with competitive battling, and eventually brought my wifi teams over to Pokemon Online. They were all doing very well, but I noticed I needed to revamp a few teams, and maybe even start up a new one. As I'm sure we all have, I noticed that the metagame was being dominated by weather teams, sand rush Excadrills, and ScarfChomp (bless his heart for moving back on up to Ubers). In search of a team that utilized this dominance, I decided to combine the speed and offensive play from most rain teams and combine it with a somewhat stall-ish and defensive, yet ferocious playstyle. Now, I know what we're all thinking: Good lord, ANOTHER rain team? Yes yes, its nothing new, but i'd still appreciate the rate :). I've been testing several different builds of this team on Pokemon Online, and with the following setup, have reached #41 as a peak ranking; nothing special, but I thought it was solid. Lastly, I themed this RMT around Kingdom Hearts, one of my favorite (if not my sole favorite) games of all time. Sure, you may not get the references or obscure quotes, but I hope you enjoy the RMT regardless. Thanks!




FIRST LOOK:




TEAM BUILDING:

I started the team off with Politoed mainly because I loved his bulk, both physical and special, as well as his fantastic scouting ability. Of course, I also needed drizzle for consistent rain. He also contributed moreso to the stall portion of the team, and also functioned as a great switch-in to get the rain back up in case of Groudons.

Ever since he was first released in Generation II, I had loved Kingdra as a pokemon, but when I discovered how potent he was as a sweeper in the rain, I realized that he was especially necessary for a team like this. To be honest, when all else fails, a SubDD Kingdra usually brings home the W. Its pretty incredible how fast he can drop your typical Ubers with a quick and simple setup. Even unboosted, A STAB'd waterfall in the rain is nothing to chuckle at. Plus, who doesn't think Kingdra looks like a badass?

Though I had Politoed as a solid, bulky lead, I still needed some more walling ability. With the abundance of fire-resistant typing on the team, I figured that it would be a safe call to use Ferrothorn as another staller. In addition, I realized I would need some form of entry hazard in order to secure OHKO's in specific situations. Generally, Kingdra could take care of himself, but Ludicolo needed some initial damage. With spikes and leech seed, Ferrothorn usually ensures a safe and easy kill for my sweepers.

After choosing Ferrothorn, I realized I needed some more coverage on the team, particularly for opposing Ferrothorns and the like, seeing as they could have walled the current team quite a bit. However, in searching for another sweeper who provided excellent Ubers coverage, I also wanted to make sure that said sweeper could utilize the rain to its advantage. After several testing periods, I found that Ludicolo fit the spot quite nicely, complimenting the team as a speedy revenge killer who also provided good typing coverage.

With Ludicolo and Kingdra having taken care of the sweeping portion of my team, I decided to use the remaining two slots for bulky, versatile and very stally pokemon. Though Politoed also had it, I wanted at least one more Toxic-abuser with incredible physical bulk, mainly since I was using Ferrothorn as a wall leaning towards the special side. Mandibuzz has easily been one of the most key components to this team, mainly because of Knock Off and Roost.

Lastly, I needed a status absorber, a setup crippler, and someone who could stall and abuse the rain, all at once. It took me a while to find Vaporeon, mainly because I hadn't realized how amazing Hydration was, or even that she had it in the first place. At first I was thinking of using the Wish Support set, but after a couple matches I realized it really didn't mesh too well with the rest of the team.

After a week or two of testing, it hit me that the team needed a little less stall and a little more offensive Umph, but with the capability to still cripple opposing sweepers. After a lot of mixing and matching, it seemed that the replacement of Politoed for Kyogre worked the best. This was mainly due to one too many toxic stallers, and I needed another form of status to shut down nasty offensive pokes attempting to set up.​




IN-DEPTH:


{I've been having these weird thoughts lately...like is any of this real? Or not?} - SORA
Kyogre @ Lum Berry
NATURE: Modest (+ Special Attack, - Attack)
ABILITY: Drizzle
EVs/IVs:: 252 HP, 252 Special Attack, 4 Defense - 30 Speed IVs
MOVESET:
Thunder Wave
Thunder
Surf
Ice Beam
ANALYSIS: Yes, I had considered using the standard scarfer set when I had first decided to switch from Politoed to Kyogre. However, Politoed had the capability of crippling a lot of offensive leads with toxic, something I loved about using him as a lead. However, I usually found those kind of Pokemon getting poisoned by Mandibuzz or Vaporeon, so I ditched Politoed for Kyogre's t-wave lead set, seeking a more offensively capable lead. 252 HP and 252 SpA are standard for this set, and 30 speed IVs along with a lack of speed EVs are completely necessary. The reasoning behind the 30 IVs is so that when faced against Drought pokes in the lead spot, my rain will be up, rather than their sun. Thunder Wave is phenomenal on Kyogre. With his natural bulk, he can almost always take the first hit and return with a t-wave, allowing him to hit back first with a monstrously powerful attack, or switch in a Swift Swimmer to attempt to set up. Thunder and Ice Beam provide accurate and hard hitting coverage, while a rain-boosted STAB'd surf is great for any situation. With natural bulk (around 400hp) and crippling/hard hitting ability, Kyogre makes for a phenomenal lead.


{If the world is made up of light and darkness...We'll be the darkness...} - RIKU
Kingdra @ Life Orb
NATURE: Adamant (+ Attack, - Special Attack)
ABILITY: Swift Swim
EVs/IVs: 252 Attack, 180 HP, 76 Speed
MOVESET:
Substitute
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Waterfall
ANALYSIS: Good god this thing is a monster in the rain, especially when it runs a SubDD set. With all the initial damage from status and hazards, SubDD Kingdra has an open invitation to set up a DD or two and sweep away. 252 Attack is obvious, however I decided to make him a little bit bulkier rather than as speedy as possible. The 180 HP EVs allow him to take a lot of hits (non 2x effective) that would otherwise kill him. I feel that 252 speed isn't really necessary because I almost never bring him in when it isn't raining. To be honest, even when Kingdra's unboosted, he still hits like a truck and can revenge kill like a beast. But when the DD's come...stay out of his path, he's crazy powerful. Waterfall is for STAB damage, and I'm certainly not complaining about the flinch. Outrage does NUTS damage, especially when Kingdra is boosted. Generally I like to bring Kingdra in mid-late game when I've had the chance to status as many of my opponent's pokes as I can, mainly because that's when my sweepers perform to their full potential.

{Sorta makes you wonder why we're afraid of the dark...} - KING MICKEY
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
NATURE: Careful (+ Special Defense, - Special Attack)
ABILITY: Iron Barbs
EVs/IVs: 252 HP, 88 Defense, 168 Special Defense
MOVESET:
Spikes
Protect
Leech Seed
Power Whip
ANALYSIS: Ferrothorn's Leech Seed set is one of the better supporting Pokemon I have ever used. With Ludicolo (and occasionally unboosted Kingdra vs bulky pokes) needing some initial damage before sweeping capability, Ferrothorn provided the team with amazing support via Spikes and Leech Seed. Protect is for scouting, as well as stalling a turn or two of Leech Seed and Lefties recovery. Power Whip over Gyro Ball mainly because I prefer the Grass coverage. 252 HP EVs are 100% necessary, and I built him leaning towards the specially defensive side due to his natural physical bulk. However, I still invest 88 EV's into defense just to dampen some fighting type hits. Essentially, the plan with Ferrothorn is usually to send him in on something he resists, and Leech Seed on the first turn. I usually hope to bait a choiced poke in and scout what move he wants with protect, as well as a turn of leech seed. If I know I can take a hit I may take a turn to set up some spikes, and if it turns out I'm not even getting dented I'll set up the second and third layers on the spot. If I'm up against something with a lot of offensive prowess I'll switch out into Vaporeon/Mandibuzz and try to stall out a turn or two. However, against scarfed Shanderas I find it quite hard to stay alive for long enough to kill them and I'm wondering whether to switch to a Shed Shell rather than leftovers.


{Name's Goofy! All for one and one for all!} - GOOFY
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
NATURE: Modest (+ Special Attack, - Attack)
ABILITY: Swift Swim
EVs/IVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
MOVESET:
Surf
Ice Beam
Energy Ball
Hidden Power Fire
ANALYSIS: The underdog of the team. Though Ludicolo may not be the hardest hitting amongst Kingdra and Kyogre, He provides phenomenal coverage, as well as incredible speed when in the rain. However, like I have said a couple of times in this RMT, Ludicolo requires a little bit of initial damage/crippling in order to secure an OHKO, mainly because a large majority of Ubers pokemon are very very bulky. However, with a lot of my opponents pokes either statused or taking hazard damage, Ludicolo actually finds sweeping a relatively easy job, particularly because of his phenomenal typing and coverage. 252 Special Attack and 252 Speed are standard. Originally, however, I was using 32 HP EVs rather than 4, mainly because I wanted a little extra bulk. However, as I continued to play with the team, the bulk seemed somewhat irrelevant. Hidden Power Fire is essential for opposing Ferrothorn, as well as Ice beam for the countless dragons that are used in Ubers. Surf and Energy Ball also provide reliable STAB, as well as the occasional Special Defense drop from Energy Ball. Just like Goofy, Ludicolo wasn't exactly the "Best fighter", but this team would not work without him.


{Aw, what do you know, ya big palooka!} - DONALD
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
NATURE: Careful (+ Special Defense, - Special Attack)
ABILITY: Big Pecks
EVs/IVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Special Defense
MOVESET:
Roost
Brave Bird
Toxic
Knock Off
ANALYSIS: It is unreal how many wins this guy has earned, and how many games he's saved. Mandibuzz is easily the key component in the stall factor of this team, mainly because of the combination of Knock Off, Toxic and Roost. Knock Off can be an absolute game changer, and can even cripple certain Pokemon, while Toxic+Roost is always a fantastic stalling strategy. Mandibuzz also serves as my physical wall, hence the defensive EV spread. However, I also find that Mandibuzz has to take some special attacks as well once Ferrothorn has been taken out, so I decided to run Careful as his nature. Brave Bird is kind of irrelevant, and rarely ever used but can be used to shorten the stall game if I need to take something out quickly (a wish support). As of right now I'm thinking of maybe running Taunt or Torment rather than Brave Bird, but I still need to test it and see how it runs. Lastly, because Sandstorm and Hail are rarely ever used in Ubers, I use Big Pecks rather than Overcoat.


{Don't ever forget: wherever you go, I'm always with you.} - KAIRI
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
NATURE: Bold (+ Defense, - Attack)
ABILITY: Hydration
EVs/IVs: 188 HP, 252 Defense, 64 Special Defense
MOVESET:
Rest
Toxic
Surf
Roar
ANALYSIS: Last but CERTAINLY not least, Vaporeon serves as an incredibly bulky wall and status absorber, as well as a potent staller via Toxic, Rest and a built-in Lum berry. When choosing Vaporeon I desired another wall who could abuse the rain, and with Hydration, Vaporeon fits that role perfectly. With 188 HP EVs and 252 Defense EVs, she can take physical hits like a beast, and still use her solid natural special defense to sponge special hits as well. Before Vaporeon I found it relatively hard to stall out substitute users who could find openings to set up on me. However, with roar I can wall them safely, as well as provide even more entry damage, thanks to Ferrothorn's spikes support. Lastly, Surf is for STAB damage when trying to shorten down stall phases. As a matter of fact, a STAB rain-boosted surf from vaporeon does a surprisingly large amount.



FINAL LOOK:




THREAT LIST:

Edited the Threat List a little bit. May see some more in the future (OU threats). In order to add more to the threat list I had to take away the sprites to avoid hitting the image cap. You'll live.

Major threats are in RED, Somewhat smaller threats are in BLUE, and those which are not threats are in BLACK

ARCEUS: When isn't this thing a threat to anyone's team? With the lifting of EV restrictions, Arceus has become an absolute monster in Ubers. The only way I can really handle boosting variants are with stall, mainly Vaporeon. Against defensively built variants, Kingdra and Kyogre brush them off.

DARKRAI: Vaporeon to absorb the Dark Void and roar it if it tries to set up (NP or SD, vaporeon walls both)

DIALGA: Dialga can be a little bit pesky sometimes, particularly the Bulk Up sets. Regardless, usually my best bet is to take it out with a boosted Outrage from Kingdra.

GIRATINA: Just like most other bulky pokes, Giratina can't help but get stalled out. Whether its a RestTalker or just a complete wall, stallers can set up on him. Ice beam from Ludi as well.

GIRATINA-O: Ferrothorn to stall it out, Ludi can kill it off with Ice Beam when its low enough.

GROUDON: The entire team rips him into itty-bitty pieces, bulky or not. Kyogre's speed IV's have the rain up in a faceoff vs a Groudon Lead so sun teams are never really scary.

HO-OH: Similar to Groudon, as long as the sun isn't up, he's easy to take care off. I can stall it or just OHKO it, but I prefer to OHKO if I see that its running flame charge.

KYOGRE: Specs variants can be somewhat difficult, but the scarfed versions are easier to take down. Ferrothorn walls both variants, and Ludicolo can revenge kill it. Another less reliable possibility is roost stalling it with Mandibuzz.

LUGIA: Finally, I've found a team that doesn't have a problem with Lugia. Whether its just a walling variant or a CM variant, I can easily set up with Ferrothorn and stall it out, roaring with Vaporeon when I need to. 2x Toxic users and Thunder from Kyogre also comes in handy.

MANAPHY: Ferrothorn walls the SHIT out of this little guy. Calm Mind or Tail Glow, its just easy as hell to stall. However because of hydration, I can't status it. But Protect+Leech Seed as well as Spikes damage and Power Whips shut this guy down.

MEWTWO:Very scary, then again, when isn't he? Similar to Arceus in the fact that I will have to end up stalling it out, and roaring when it boosts.

PALKIA: Generally only a problem if the rain isn't up, and its scarfed. However, If I find it difficult to OHKO it or T-wave it, It becomes a bit larger of a problem.

RESHIRAM: Thank god for the rain is all I'm going to say. Vaporeon is a great wall against Reshiram, and Kingdra is free to set up on the chance of a switch-in or just outspeed and KO with a +1/unboosted Outrage.

RAYQUAZA: Air lock. Sucks. Hard. If this gets a chance to come in and boost, it can DESTROY nearly every member of my team. I've had bad encounters with Rayquaza so far and I'm still looking for a check.

SHAYMIN-S: Not really an issue. However, if Ferrothorn is down and it's running a SubSeed set it can be a bit of a nuisance, but nothing too serious.

ZEKROM: Usually only a problem when its scarfed, and when the rain is down. However, if I make a key misplay, this guy can end up sweeping a few members of the team.




CONCLUSION:
Well, that just about finishes up this RMT. Thanks to everyone who reads/rates/tests this team and to all who give suggestions in the future. I know the threat list seems kind of rushed, and maybe I'll add on some more in the future. So far I have really been loving this team and I'm seeking to improve it even more. Thanks again.



 
Great, Great, Great, Great Team. I love the presentation behind it as well. Kingdom Hearts is a brilliant game! It really is a shame that more people have not commented on this obviously well constructed RMT. I have one recommendation that perhaps could better this team. I know you probably want to keep Mandibuzz due to its uniqueness in the tier, but I'd recommend this Lugia set over it. It can do everything Mandibuzz can do, but with superior stats.

name: Great Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Reflect / Substitute
move 3: Dragon Tail / Ice Beam
move 4: Toxic / Whirlwind / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish / Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD

GL with the team, and im sure that anybody could ladder well with it. I'll test it out soon and recommend more changes soon.
 
To be honest I've thought about switching Mandibuzz out for Lugia quite often, even since I first made the team. Essentially, it comes down to a competition between a Toxic staller with item support and decently solid stats versus a Toxic staller with reflect support and even better stats. So far Mandibuzz has been absolutely incredible for the team, but I'm 100% willing to try out Lugia as a replacement.

Thanks for the input.
 

Furai

we will become who we are meant to be
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
As I told you on PO;


Scarf Terrakion over Vaporeon - you already have Lugia for stalling, and Terrakion fixes your ExtremeKiller, Zekrom, DD/SD Quaza and Mewtwo problem.

Maybe try Leech Seed over HP Fire on Ludicolo. Switch Ludicolo on something that can't handle it, and then Leech Seed the incoming Pokemon. Ferrothorn still stays a threat, but in the rain HP Fire won't do anything.

On Kingdra, I suggest Draco Meteor > DD and maybe Hydro Pump > Substitute. Test Draco with Substitute and then decide.

Find something to lay down SR.

I'd also suggest a Spinblocker, like Arceus-Ghost over Ludicolo/Kingdra;

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Timid Nature
252 HP/4 Def/252 Speed
~Will-O-Wisp
~Recover
~Flamethrower/Focus Blast
~Judgement


Good Luck!
 
Thanks again for all your help after our battle. I'm definitely open to trying Scarf Terrakion, considering you have a very good point in it solving most of my problems.

However, my original Kingdra set was a mixed set exactly as you had put it and after trying both sets I prefer the SubDD set over most other sets. It's a good input, but Kingdra's moveset is kind of fixed. Nevertheless, I'll go back to testing his mixed set and see what the outcome is like.

Leech Seed on Ludicolo may be a good idea, thats kind of what Ferrothorn is for, but hell I'll try it. Another type of HP may work even better, since HP fire is a bad choice in the rain.

To be honest, I don't really have too much of a problem with Rapid Spinners, as I usually dont see too many of them, but Arceus-Ghost is another great suggestion.

Thanks again, I'll make sure to test all of your suggestions when I can. Heck, maybe we'll even have a chance to battle again :)

EDIT: I may also try scarfed Palkia. We'll see.
 
UPDATE:

After quite a lot of testing I've decided to make some changes.

Lugia has officially replaced Mandibuzz as another stall factor to my team. Scarf Terrakion is still being tested over Vaporeon but will most likely replace her soon enough. After trying numerous sets on both Ludicolo and Kingdra, I've received the most synergy when using the ones they currently have, and they will remain unchanged for now. Arceus-Ghost was incredibly helpful as a spinblocker but wasn't really meshing with the team at all.

When I have the time I will edit the larger post, but for now these are the changes I'm making.
 
You need, and I cannot stress this enough, NEED something for Refresh Arceus. It boosts against everything but a full health Water Spout from Kyogre. Kingdra Waterfalls hit decently hard, but if it doesn't flinch, you're screwed. Grass Arceus eats this team alive too despite Ferrothorn walling it, the plant saucer cant do anything back. If its non-Refresh, you might catch it with a toxic on the switch, but if it is, you have to hope Ferro eats every single Grass Knot or Judgement it has.

Depending on Kingdra to revenge every Dragon? Sounds like a formula for disaster. Vaporeon is streched far too thin on this team absorbing status, tanking every other hit that doesn't go to Ferrothorne. This team is as Spikes weak as they come, and you really dont have much of anything to stop opposing ferrothorns from spreading spikes everywhere. Encountering a FerroCruel core means you're basically done. Tentacruel spins vs your entire team, freely sets up TSpikes, and can wall Ludicolo until it dies from LO Recoil.

Scarf Terrakion gets my vote as well, Vap is dead weight.
 
You are correct in saying that Grass Arceus can serve as a very large problem (most Arceus sets do). However, I have never seen an Arceus apart from Dark Arceus carry Refresh, and even then I have only seen that set a few times, not really proving to be a major threat, especially if I replace Vaporeon with a Scarfed Terrakion (which im 99.9% sure I will).

Apart from Rayquaza shutting down the rain, Kingdra does a damn good job at revenging close to all dragons. With all of the initial damage going around it makes for an easy kill. If Kingdra doesn't fail, there's always Ludicolo. The Tentacruel mention was a good call though, definitely may be a problem, though Kyogre can occasionally deal with it.

I know it seems normal to underestimate this team on unorthodox choices, but its a powerhouse.
 

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