A potential discovery regarding Counter and Mirror Coat.

[X-Act]

Try something with Serene Grace that has a chance of freezing against a Mirror Coater with Lum Berry.

 

[Manser]

Hence Blissey vs Tentacruel.

Only problem is that Tentacruel doesn't have a recovery move..

 

[Jediment]

Tentacruel also doesn't have Serene Grace. The best option I can think of is still Serene Grace Blissey vs. Wobbuffet.

 

[X-Act]

Tentacruel also doesn't have Serene Grace. The best option I can think of is still Serene Grace Blissey vs. Wobbuffet.

He meant Ice Beam Serene Grace Blissey versus Mirror Coat Tentacruel.

 

[Jediment]

Oh...right. I knew that. I suppose that could work. Anyone willing to try it?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Gotta test it now. Just need a lv100 Tentacruel with Mirror Coat and a lv20 Blissey with Ice Beam and Serene Grace...

EDIT: Tentacruel got frozen, but didn't immediately thaw out. End of testing?

 

[X-Act]

No, the test should have been with Tentacruel holding a Lum Berry (or the berry that cures Freeze), and see if Mirror Coat works after being frozen and defrosted immediately or not. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[Mario With Lasers]

In the first turn, the Tentacruel kept frozen, as I didn't give him a Lum Berry. However, in the following turn, he thawed out... and the Mirror Coat failed. So, it's not a Shoddy glitch.

 

[X-Act]

Okay, but can you please test it in the case of when a Pokemon freezes and is defrosted in the same turn please? :(

This is interesting though, as this could mean that things like Vital Throw would also miss on the turn the Pokemon uses it as it thaws out...

 

[Jediment]

Thanks for running the tests Mario. The results so far are good, but as X-Act said, more definitive ones would be awesome too. I'm gonna go look for some more implications to this.

 

[shivknight]

Yeah, whoever tests it, make sure not to use Lum. The game function being tested is first-turn thaw, which is different than Lum's instant and surefire status cure-all ( I believe). I think that Coat would succeed in the event of a first-turn thaw.

 

[wiivile]

It's really silly to say that any game mechanic tested on Shoddy is a discovery.

 

[Superbro]

Test it by giving a Wobafet a lum berry and spamming icebeam vs him. Ingame. Right?

Here's what you do. lvl 50ish wob against a lvl 1 newly hatched (generic non-dark icebeam learner). The reflected damage wont be much. You should get like 5-6 reflected beams out of each baby.

 

[sanjay120]

Guys, Secret Power Dunsparce in the snow.

Are there even any double battles in the snow?

 

[Jediment]

Dunsparce can learn Ice Beam.

Lum Berry instant status cure is the same as a first turn thaw because the Pokemon still has to be frozen. If Lum Berry prevented status it would be different.

If what I'm thinking is correct, the one-turn freezing effect has an impact on moves that are affected by negative priority, i.e. Counter, Mirror Coat, Vital Throw, Revenge, etc.

 

[sanjay120]

Secret Power in the snow has a 30% chance of freeze, 60% with Serene Grace.

 

[shivknight]

How are Lum and thawing the same? Lum automatically cures ensuring an attack, while to attack while frozen there is thaw function that happens. The question is whether the thaw function happens before negative priority moves. I don't know the mechanics that well, where all the checks and stuff are, but it just seems like Lum is signficantly different than thawing, espcially for the purpose of an attack succeeding or not.

 

[Age of Kings]

In the first turn, the Tentacruel kept frozen, as I didn't give him a Lum Berry. However, in the following turn, he thawed out... and the Mirror Coat failed. So, it's not a Shoddy glitch.

Even in the same turn, it shouldn't matter much. I'm sticking with this conclusion.