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Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Jirachee, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. Jirachee

    Jirachee scootin
    is a Tournament Directoris an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Sep 24, 2010

    A little introduction to the team
    So I was really tired of using the same team over and over again and OST was coming, so I decided that it was time for me to build a new team. I decided to build it around what is probably the coolest Dragon in the metagame, Salamence. Salamence is probably the nicest looking Dragon and I decided to look at what its counter was, and how to make it easier for it to sweep. That's how I built the team and it changed a lot, since the metagame suffered from a lot of important bans since when I built this team. Anyway, this is probably my favourite team I've ever built and even though it's not my best, it's so much fun to use that I really want to post it.

    At a glance

    Teambuilding process
    Teambuilding (open)

    The team itself started with the combination of Salamence and Expert Belt Genesect. Dragon Dance Salamence doesn't have a whole lot of counters and Genesect bluffing the popular Choice Scarf set could easily remove most of them.
    I wanted to add in some Spikes as I know from experience with Salamence that it absolutely loves them. I've always found Skarmory to be the most reliable Spiker outside of Rain and I didn't want to use Rain as both Genesect and Salamence rely on Fire typed moves to remove Steel types, so Skarmory was the most logical choice.
    I then added Gengar in order to block Rapid Spin. Having a spinblocker is always cool on teams that rely on Spikes as then you can send in your offensive mons and do some work, and your Spikers isn't as easy to target anymore. Gengar fits best on offensive teams, which was the direction I was heading.
    I added Landorus-T for multiple reasons, the number one reason being that it's such a reliable Stealth Rocker. It can easily lay down SR since it walls a ton of Physical attackers and then it can pivot to something else with U-turn. Landorus-T also helps a ton against Jirachi which is incredibly popular.
    Latias completes he team by fixing a lot of weaknesses it had, such as Thundurus-T or powerful Water types in general. At that point the team was complete and was pretty good.
    With the banning of Genesect, the team found itself to be much less effective so I decided to try out some stuff in Genesect's spot. I finally settled by making Salamence a Choice Scarfer and using Starmie for Rapid Spin support in Genesect's position.
    After I tried out some things and fucked around with the team a bit, I decided to use Hippowdon over Landorus-T, mainly because of Sand Stream. It gives the team an incredible advantage against opposing weather teams as Hippowdon can easily win weather wars, thanks to its incredible bulk. Both cover similar things anyway.
    I found myself at a huge disadvantage against Special Dragons and Starmie's spot was easy to change, so I decided to use Scizor instead. Rapid Spin wasn't that useful to the team anyway, and Scizor adds a lot to the team's defensive synergy. That could also allow me to use Physically Defensive Skarmory instead of the Specially Defensive version.

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf *** Apocalypse Please
    Ability: Moxie
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~Dragon Claw
    ~Fire Blast

    Salamence was the Pokemon I decided to build the team around. It's an extremely dangerous late game cleaner as it's already pretty fast and with Moxie, you can revenge kill something weak to pick up a boost and then Salamence is pretty much impossible to stop. I try to keep Salamence for late game use only, as it's then that it's going to be the most effective. In the rare cases where I have to send Salamence in early game, I don't really use Outrage as it makes it easy for my opponent to beat my main winning condition. Outrage and Dragon Claw are the moves I use most often since they're the most powerful, but Earthquake can get late game sweeps too, as it's reasonably powerful even for a coverage move and when you can pick off something like Terrakion with it, it's easy to accumulate boosts. Fire Blast is the move I use the less but it can come in handy sometimes when the opponent has Skarmory or Ferrothorn. When Salamence is ready to clean, it's pretty important to make sure the opponent's scarfer has been removed or is slower than Salamence, as it tends to be fairly weak to them. Things like Keldeo and Terrakion can revenge kill it fairly easily, so wearing them down with Spikes and multiple hits can be crucial.

    Salamence isn't really used for defensive roles other than being my team's revenge killer. Since Salamence is weak to Stealth Rock and I have no spinner, I like to keep it for late game or in emergency situations. As my team's only scarfer and fastest Pokemon it has to do some revenge killing sometimes though, as things likes Dragonite just can't be revenge killed properly by Scizor's Bullet Punch.

    Skarmory @ Leftovers *** Blackout
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    ~Brave Bird

    I consider Skarmory to be the most important Pokemon on this team since it relies on Spikes so much, and Skarmory is such a reliable Spiker. It can get at the very least one layer of Spikes against all kind of teams if I play it carefully, and against Sand it can get more than one pretty much all the time, which is awesome. While it does have issues getting down Spikes against Sun teams, I don't think I really need them against Sun since they have a lot of SR weak Pokemon anyway, so I like to keep Skarmory as an emergency option with Sturdy + Whirlwind against their sweepers. I usually use Skarmory really early in the game, even though I rarely ever lead with it, as early game Spikes mean that it's very easy for my team to win, except if they have a lot of levitators or something.

    I used to run a Specially Defensive spread on Skarmory, during the Tornadus-T metagame, since it could act as a decent check to it. I opted to change for the Physically Defensive version since it got banned and I switched to Scizor in the last slot though, as it's usually easier for Skarm to get Spikes since it walls so many Physical attackers. I use it as my main check to most Physical threats in the metagame, such as Mamoswine, Garchomp, or opposing Salamence, although some of them carry super effective moves sometimes, choiced versions are just turned into Spikes bait. Skarmory also has one more role, which is to prepare Salamence's sweep. When I have SR+Spikes, which is really easy, I like to get Skarmory in against something that it walls and just start to spam Whirlwind until something dangerous comes up, which weakens the opponent's team a lot, making it easier for Salamence to get a Moxie boost and start sweeping. Skarmory is easily this team's most important Pokemon, and I don't think anything can replace it.

    Gengar @ Life Orb *** Hysteria
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Focus Blast
    ~Pain Split

    Gengar is probably not the bulkiest spinblocker available but it's certainly very effective on this team, especially with the given set. Aside from blocking Rapid Spin, Gengar can really help the team offensively. Using a Life Orb set on a Sand team might look like a terrible idea but I think it's more effective than the SubDisable set. I never liked the SubDisable set on Sand anyway as it negates Leftovers which are vital in order to create more subs. More recoil just makes Pain Split more effective anyway, which is nice when the opponent has something ridiculously bulky like SpD Hippowdon. Gengar abuses the entry hazards perfectly as it causes a lot of switches by creating Subs, and then has the power to KO things that stay in. Unlike Skarmory, Gengar isn't really a Pokemon that I can decide when I can switch it in, as I usually save it for the opponent's Rapid Spinner, if they have one. If they don't, then Gengar doesn't really have any kind of synergy with Skarmory, so it's wutevz.

    Gengar's amazing typing and ability allows it to check a number of things that could be very dangerous to the team otherwise, like Landorus-I. While I do have Latias to stop it, I prefer to go to Gengar as my first switch in as Latias is much more prone to the U-turn set, taking Super Effective damage from U-turn and being easily trapped by Choice Band Tyranitar. Gengar can actually beat CBTar with Focus Blast, if it hits of course, while also x4 resisting U-turn, taking little damage from it. Random Psychic versions are annoying but they are pretty rare so it's wutevz.

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers *** Endlessly
    Ability: Sand Stream
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    ~Slack Off
    ~Stealth Rock

    I used to have Landorus-T here but in my opinion, going without weather in BW2 is just suicide. Hippowdon and Landorus-T are fairly similar Pokemon anyway, with a couple of key differences, Hippowdon's main advantage being Sand Stream. I like to lead with Hippowdon as it's so bulky that literally nothing can OHKO it, meaning I can get Sandstorm and Stealth Rock in early, for more residual damage on the opponent's team. Early game rocks can really give you an immense advantage, especially with a spinblocker. Hippowdon is an invaluable tool against Sun teams, as they can't trap it with Dugtrio and usually have a lot of issues with Stealth Rock, unless they carry Xatu.

    Hippowdon's so bulky that it can be used as a back up check to an incredible amount of threats, especially with that spread. While full SpD can do ridiculous things like avoid the 2HKO from Hydreigon's LO Draco Meteor, the extra physical bulk means that it can take on things like Dragonite and Terrakion with a lot more ease. Hippowdon is without a doubt a better choice than Tyranitar for that team as it brings exactly the things I need. Sorry Tyranitar :(

    Also, Hippo is adorable~

    Latias @ Life Orb *** Time is Running Out
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 32 HP / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~Draco Meteor

    Latias is such a good Pokemon in the current metagame. It's incredibly useful as it has just the best resistances possible, including Water, Fighting, Ground, and Electric. Too bad it doesn't resist Dragon I guess. What I like about Latias is that it adds so much to the team's defensive synergy, checking a lot of things that could simply sweep me otherwise, while also being a formidable offensive threat with Life Orb STAB Draco Meteor. Latias is my main weapon, along with Hippowdon, against other Weathers. It's my bulkiest Water resist and Rain without Ferrothorn usually has a lot of issues switching into Latias. Against Sun teams, Latias is my main switch in to sweepers before changing the weather back with Hippowdon.

    The EV spread is fairly simple, 32 HP means that Latias hits an LO number and it adds just a bit of bulk without sacrificing too much power. I don't like to run 72 HP as then, Latias feels a lot weaker and misses out on some OHKOes, and with more HP, Latias is just too weak. That's why I run LO even on Sand. While Latias is crucial to my team's success and I can't really afford it going down, the power is also crucial to Latias' health, ensuring that it can actually KO stuff before they can hit it.

    Scizor @ Leftovers *** Ruled By Secrecy
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SpD
    ~Bullet Punch

    Trapper Scizor is such a great Pokemon. It's the last Pokemon I've added to the team. I tried a lot of things in that slot and I've found that Scizor was just the best fit. Trapping the Latis is incredibly useful as they can do a lot of damage to this team, especially the LO/Specs versions. I know that Trapper Scizor usually uses a much more offensive spread with Life Orb, as the on-site analysis shows, but I really don't think it's the best spread you can run. This spread is a lot bulkier and it will be able to take on Latios a lot better, because it hits hard enough to actually destroy frailer Scizors with Draco Meteor. Scizor gives me a great offensive pivot who can come in on many common Pokemon with its great resistances and scout the switch in with U-turn. Scizor also provides useful priority which is good to have on any kind of team, finishing off weakened threats, meaning that I don't have to switch in Salamence all the time when I need to revenge kill something, so I can keep it for late game.

    Having a second Steel is also extremely useful. While Skarmory is much more reliable when it comes to tanking Physical hits, Scizor can be used as an emergency Dragon resist when Skarmory is at low health or just dead. It's also better at taking on Special Dragons since I'm using a fully physical Skarmory, taking a lot of pressure out of it.

    I hope that you've appreciated my RMT and that you like the team. It's really a lot of fun to use and I really suggest that you try it out on your own. I'm open to most suggestions, so don't hesitate to post a rate of your own.

    Shoutout to the Raiders who were a cool team for the whole time I was on. It was a lot of fun playing with you guys, and I'm sad that our season had to end so quickly. Next season, we'll destroy.

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Pain Split
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind
    - Slack Off
    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 224 SAtk / 32 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Recover
    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Roost

  2. Jirachee

    Jirachee scootin
    is a Tournament Directoris an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Sep 24, 2010
    reserved for threatlist
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Who says I can't get stoned?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 5, 2012
    Ugh why is everyone using Sand

    Hey mr coolio I got your request :P

    This is a really solid team, nice job. You have a great balance of offense, speed, and bulk, and with hazards and phazing to keep opposing sweepers at bay, it won't be very often that you'll get swept by a rogue setup sweeper. However, I think your team needs a few more win options other than Salamence, since it is exceedingly hard for you to win matches if a Mence sweep goes wrong or Mence gets KO'd. You can definitely try Swords Dance over Roost on Scizor for another way to victory, or to seize switch opportunities to setup and rip some holes early game. It may seem crazy to have Swords Dance and U-Turn on the same set, but it's actually very useful, as it lets you use Scizor for the best of both worlds- trapping and sweeping, and tbh during late game sweeps Scizor doesn't need much other than BP anyway. Swords Dance will also boost Scizor's attack to more powerful levels, making up for the loss of evs.

    Some select pokemon can still be a pain to deal with. Bulky water types can also be tough to get past, especially if they run Scald / Ice beam, which can quickly cripple the team. FerroTenta is a bitch, since your team doesn't exactly have a single pokemon that can defeat both at a time nor do you carry a spinner to prevent their hazards. Rotom-W can also be a pain, using its resistances and WoW to beat Scizor / Skarm / Hippo and its defenses to beat Latias and Gengar. There are a bunch of ways to help you overcome these minor weaknesses, but the team itself has quite a lot of synergy so I don't want to switch too many things. One way you can tackle this problem is to replace Skarmory with Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn can also lay down Spikes and perform a very similar defensive / support role on your team- with the plus side that it resists Water / Ice / Electric and can be used to counter common Rain defensive teams. It loses Skarmory's neutrality to Fighting and its immunity to Ground, but both of those types are handled well by Gengar / Latias, so I don't think the loss would be too big of a deal. The great thing about Ferrothorn is its ability to take down bulky opponents that usually stop Salamence's sweep. For example, it can use its powerful Power Whip to take out opposing bulky water types or bulky ground types. Ferrothorn can also further support its team with Leech Seed- which can be used to wear down opponents and heal up your teammates. It also has Gyro Ball, which is a great check to setup sweepers should things ever get out of hand. Skarmory's ability to wall Fighting / Rock / Ground type pokemon can be covered by Hippowdon or Scizor, so I think Ferrothorn might work better because it is a better answer to Rain. Still, I know you value Skarmory very much, so I'll leave the decision to your judgement.

    Nice team, Jirachi! :)

    Ferrothorn (open)

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Relaxed / 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpDef
    Spikes / Leech Seed / Gyro Ball / Power Whip

    @Frog: Just adding to that, I noticed Volcarona as a threat too, but I think Jirachi can handle it without changing anything. Sure, Mence may not be able to kill it, but it can take resisted hits all day. Also, Hippowdon can just sit its fat ass in and whrilwind it out for another round of SR. So, the Volc either carries Giga Drain and can be revenged by Mence, or it doesn't carry Giga and is dealt by with Hippo. As long as hazards stay up and Hippo stays healthy, imo you'll be fine
  4. Frog


    Mar 2, 2012
    Bulky volcarona can set up on latias, scizor, or gengar and sweep if it is healthy enough to take a hit from mence, especially under sunlight. Using rock slide over whirlwind on hippowdon will give you a nice way of checking it, rock slide also hits dragonite and salamence for good damage.
  5. Reymedy

    Reymedy Colt Python 357 Magnum.
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 17, 2012
    Hi, I can see that your team is a bit behind your friend's one in terms of answers, so I'm gonna bump it with my rate. Just kidding =)

    So, this team seems interesting, featuring some fast spikes/SR setting with a Gengar. I can see that you tried hard to keep a nice balance and a strong defensive backbone, and seems like it worked.
    However, as hard as it could be, I'm gonna try to improve this team through my personal opinion.

    Here are the weaknesses I'll focus on :

    - Starmie LO, especially under Rain. The blue star can OHKO 5/6 of your pokemons, even Scizor, it's a 100% OHKO with HPump under Rain after SR damages. And, this means that you gonna be pressure hardcore because your Hippowdon won't be switching in on a Starmie. You could sac Hippow to then bring Scizor in safely, but in the end it would just be a 50/50. Pursuit dealing 60% if Starmie doesn't switch out. Latias takes around 63% from Ice Beam, meaning that she can't switch in.

    - Anything that can spam a powerful HPump in fact threaten your team. Two HPump in a row from ScarfDeo do around 80 to Latias. Meaning that after a single recoil of LO, and if there is SR on the field, you lost the game. Because nothing else can stand a HPump bar Mence, who can be revenged anytime by Keldeo.
    Obviously, same goes for SpecsToed, OHKO'ing everything in your team after SR bar Latias who is 2HKO'd, but anyway, get your Latias so crippled, will be really bad. And obviously, she can be trapped, leaving a free way to win for Keldeo.

    - Because there is also Tornadus, a LO set for instance, or a Specs one, can spam Hurricane recklessly, and you will have to gamble Hippowdon's life to stop his rampage. Or sac and bring full HP Latias/Mence in..

    You may are realised that those 3 points are in fact the same. Rain teams. And it clearly comes from the special side of your defensive skeleton. I mean, you can only rely on an offensive Latias, and a defensive Scizor sporting a not so impressive 70/80 bulk.

    - 3 Atks + Growth Venusaur can be a pain, and win the game after a Growth. But I like how your team can hit Venusaur before the set-up, making the sweep not so easy.

    - Lati@s with HP Fire, they pressure your team badly. But it comes to prediction.

    Well, in a nutshell, Rain is the issue, and it's pretty clear to see why.

    Here are my changes :

    - First, I support Electrolyte's change, I think that it's probably the best one which does not hurt too much the synergy of your team and keeps intact the fast spikes stacking logic. However, I would STRONGLY advise you to find a room for ThunderWave on the set. Indeed, as I said earlier, Venusaur can be a threat and you deal with it by threatening him on the set-up turn (BraveBird), but if you get Electrolyte's set without ThunderWave, you gave here a free opportunity to set-up for Venusaur. You're still pretty weak to Keldeo and Tornadus, but Starmie is perfectly handled now.

    - I was checking the team, wondering why, trying to understand the team and your choices.. And something keeps botheting me. Scizor.
    You say that you wanted Scizor to trap stuff.. And I'm really wondering what you would need to trap ? There is no Psychic pokemon that can stop Latias/Mence from dealing massiv damages (probably Celebi for Latias.. but you won't be trapping a BatonPass Celebi anytime soon) so I want to call into question Scizor's utility as a trapper in this team.
    So, I'm looking for a pokemon able to annoy Tornadus, while also being able to take advantage from a Pursuit locked Ttar (meaning that if you get outpredicted when dealing with Keldeo, you would still be able to crush the opposite thanks to Mence+pokemon setting-p on Ttar). You could change Scizor to a SD set, like a Choice lure with U-Turn.
    But, there is a pokemon that could really shine here. Toxicroak. So, let me explain. You obviously improve your chances against any Rain team (OHKO Tornadus at +2 and god knows how easy it is to get a SD against a Rain team), you wall break everything in a Rain team that could be a nuisance to Mence. You also kill Starmie.
    But overall, you set-up on Ttar, get a good solution to Keldeo, and in general, you will punch big holes in Sand teams, crippling Hippowdon or Skarmory badly.Moreover, you can check that by watching your own team. Toxicroak kills everything if Skarmory is under 70 when he switches in, and if Hippowdon is under 90% when he switches in if SR are up. And I can see Toxicroak setting-up on Scizor easily. On the top of that, your team got a really tight physically defensive backbone, not every Sand team packs a Skarmory (you swap Skarm for Jirachi, and it gets all of a sudden even easier for Toxicroak to break some walls).

    Those two changes are self-sufficient in my opinion, meaning that you can just change Skarmory for Ferro or Scizor for Toxicroak. However, without Scizor, special Dragons will be really tough but anyway, most of them have a way to kill Scizor via Fire moves. Ferrothorn got a better special bulk than Skarmory, so he could be some kind a fusion between Skarmory and Scizor on the defensive side.

    That's all I got, Toxicroak can look crappy in a non Rain team, but it would be a huge mistake to overlook him for this reason. He can wall break perfectly for your Mence and soften your match-up against Rain teams.

    THE SETS :

    Show Hide

    Toxicroak @ Life Orb
    Dry Skin
    40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Sword Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Ice Punch

    Recoil could be annoying under Sand, but Drain Punch should mitigate that. Anyway, Toxicroak won't be staying too long on the field, out of the Rain fights, and just wall break for a Mence sweep.

    I hope I helped, good luck with your team.


    Show Hide
  6. Cygnis


    Feb 19, 2013
    Sup Jirachi
    Cool team. This is a surprising team to face. I think I have faced this team with a Starmie instead. I don't remember. Whatever, it owned me, good job. I see a major weakness to the Starmie, Politoed, Keldeo core. This core can go on by one OHKO each member except Latias who doesn't want to take Ice Beams. Also Cloyster is a major weakness as it 6-0's this team using its standard SS | Hydro Pump | Icicle Spear | Rock Blast combination. Volcarona is also a pain to deal with if Hippowdon is weakened but you should be able to play around it using Whirlwind and that special bulk. I feel like Ferrothorn is a better replacement than Skarmory as well. Whil Skarmory has access to reliable recovery and outstanding physical bulk. Ferrothorn counters rain teams and set-up sweepers with only two moves, Gyro Ball and Power Whip. the sand damage Salamence takes can be supported by Leech Seed and extra recovery for Scizor and Hippowdon is always a good thing. It even has much more resistances that help you switch into more moves and Cloyster can never OHKO it at +2, even with LO where it KOed by Power Whip. Iron Barbs also lets it break Multiscale, Focus Sash, and is much better at sacking physical attacks. This is a great team!

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers or Rocky Helmet | Iron Barbs
    Relaxed | 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Leech Seed | Spikes | Power Whip | Gyro Ball

    EDIT:Just noticed that if Jirachi switches to Ferrothorn, he'll have to change the whole RMT format because there isn't any MD2 art or DPP back-faced sprites for it.
  7. Jirachee

    Jirachee scootin
    is a Tournament Directoris an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Sep 24, 2010
    @Electrolyte: Thanks for the rate. I probably won't use Swords Dance over Roost on Scizor, as the additional healing provided by Roost is just crucial because I have to switch Scizor directly into stupidly powerful things like Latios who will do ridiculous amounts of damage with resisted hits. While my main sweeper, Salamence, can't sweep every game, Gengar and Latias are still very potent at late game cleaning since they have great coverage and Speed. Gengar actually sweeps pretty often too, since it's really difficult to stop. As for Ferrothorn, I'll probably try it out to see if it does better than Skarmory. I know that I could use an addtional Water resist to switch into things like Politoed but Skarmory has some key advantages over it, the main one being Whirlwind. Being able to phaze stuff is incredible especially on a team with Spikes, as I can use Skarmory to prepare the field for Salamence's sweep. I feel like Skarmory is also much more effective than Ferrothorn outside of Rain, but I will still try it out.

    @Frog: Volcarona, in my opinion, is a threat on paper only. While it can indeed set up on stuff, it needs to be at full health to do so. I have a spinblocker on my team which makes sure that SR stays on my opponent's side of the field, which heavily cripples Volcarona. If I have SR on my side of the field, Whirlwind deals with Volca just fine too. I guess I could try Rock Slide though, thanks for the rate.

    @Remedy: Thanks for the rate. Like I said to Electrolyte, I'll try out Ferrothorn over Skarmory. Toxicroak does seem like an interesting choice over Scizor, and if I make this change without changing Skarmory I'll turn Skarm into a SpD variant to reduce my weakness against Special Dragons. Toxicroak just doesn't seem to fit on a Sand team though, so I guess I'll heavily test it before making a final change. Also, I like your point about Scizor's set. I guess I could change it to a choice lure with Iron Plate. I like to be able to get rid of Latis though, as they can become a problem if they can switch in often. Thanks again.

    @Cygnis: Like I said to the others, I'll try out Ferrothorn. However, I want to say that Cloyster feels like it's just a weakness on paper. To me, Cloyster is a fairly bad Pokemon in general. There's nothing on my team that it can really set up on because I can either Whirlwind it for more SR+Spikes damage, or just KO it, with the exception of Salamence. However, Salamence is a late game Pokemon, while Cloyster is an early game Pokemon, meaning that they'll almost never be used at the same time, and will not be a threat.
  8. Harsha

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 18, 2011
    This team is awful, so I'll try and help you out by pointing you in the right direction. First and foremost, I implore you to check out Battling 101, a program for users such as yourself. There, you can get advice from some of the site's top battlers.

    With that said, this is a pretty original team and I haven't seen many like it. I think the biggest problem with it is that rain builds can force their way through your team after your main sponges are weakened. Latias is all that stands to high-powered Hydro Pumps that come from Politoed and Keldeo (Salamence is not much of a check), and it's equipped with a Life Orb, meaning it won't be lasting too long. Additionally, it looks like Ferrothorn on rain teams can be a bit problematic because it can come in and Spike fairly easily against your Latias, and the best you can do in this situation is switch out to Skarmory and Whirlwind it out (as Gengar fears a Gyro Ball or Thunder Wave). There isn't much room for change on a team like this, but you could try a Jellicent over your Gengar (funny that you just suggested it on my team...). Jellicent may seem odd because it's in a worse position against most variants of Tyranitar and because it's weak to Ferrothorn's Grass STAB, but it does provide you with a much better answer to rain teams, and Will-O-Wisp can be a huge help against both Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, should they attempt to come in.

    Jellicent (open)
    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Shadow Ball

    You could creep more to beat out Tyranitar, but I don't think the drop in bulk is worth it. If you do want to go that route, 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe is a viable spread that beats out most Choice Scarf Tyranitar.

    You could try a bulky Swords Dance Scizor over your current trapper variant because it gives you another win condition against more defensive teams. All you'd need to do would be replace Pursuit with Swords Dance (and U-turn for Bug Bite if you dislike U-turn Swords Dance Scizor) and you'd still retain a Pokemon that gains momentum, but you'd also get a good late-game sweeper from it. I feel as though you'll be using U-turn more often than Pursuit in most situations, so it doesn't seem like that major of a change, but if you think the extra insurance against opposing Latios and Latias is worth it, by all means stick with Pursuit. You can also try creeping a bit with Skarmory's Speed to ensure that you Roost before opposing Choice Band Tyranitar hit with Stone Edge, but a lot of good players already creep a lot with their Tyranitar, so you may find that you're losing too much bulk by doing so. Regardless, cool team and good luck. I hope I helped.

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