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Aerodactyl [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by kokoloko, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    [Overview]

    <p>Aerodactyl is the definition of fast, outpaced only by Accelgor in RU. It can take advantage of this by using Hone Claws to try to sweep, supporting the team with a fast Stealth Rock and Taunt, or simply equipping itself with a Choice Band and hitting stuff hard. It's not all good news for Aerodactyl though, as its subpar defenses don't let it take advantage of its great typing and leave it very vulnerable to priority and Choice Scarf users. Additionally, it has a weakness to Stealth Rock, further shortening its lifespan. Don't be fooled, however; this prehistoric beast is still one of the most deadly offensive Pokemon in the tier, and underestimating it can very well cost you a few games.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Aqua Tail
    move 4: Double-Edge
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Aerodactyl's incredible Speed, good Attack stat, and great coverage make it an excellent Choice Band user. Like other Choice item Pokemon, this set requires a bit of prediction to work properly, although the fact that all of its moves have a wide range of neutral coverage eases this a little. Stone Edge, as unreliable as it is, is Aerodactyl's STAB move, hitting everything that doesn't resist it for a good chunk of damage. Earthquake maims Steel-types such as Aggron that try to switch into predicted Stone Edges. Aqua Tail hits Rhydon harder than anything else on this set, securing a 2HKO. Double-Edge rounds out the set by providing Aerodactyl with a strong neutral coverage move that takes full advantage of Rock Head.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs and nature ensure Aerodactyl always outpaces unboosted Sceptile and maximize its Attack. The remainder gets tossed into HP to slightly increase Aerodactyl's longevity. You can choose to use an Adamant nature with maximum Speed and Attack, as Aerodactyl will still be faster than Scolipede and the common variants of Sceptile that only aim to beat it. Alternatively, you could keep Jolly and run 216 Speed EVs, which lets Aerodactyl outrun Swellow and neutral-natured +1 Feraligatr, or 232 Speed to beat neutral +1 base 80s, but at that point you might want to consider simply maximizing it. Fire Fang can be used to destroy Ferroseed, which effectively counters this set otherwise. However, you should seriously consider pairing this set with a Fire-type, as this allows you to take advantage of Tangrowth, another one of this set's counters, as well.</p>

    <p>Due to Aerodactyl's weakness to Stealth Rock, you might also want to invest in a Rapid Spin user, but none of them have particularly good synergy with it. However, Kabutops works well offensively because it can take advantage of the weakened Pokemon resistant to Rock-type moves that Aerodactyl leaves behind. With Rapid Spin support, you can choose to forego Choice Band in favor of Life Orb. This will allow Aerodactyl to switch moves at the expense of some power and 10% of its health every time it attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Taunt + Roost
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Roost
    move 4: Taunt
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is an excellent addition to most offensive teams in need of a good way to shut down teams that rely on setup moves a lot, such as stall and Spikes-based offense. It also acts as an excellent check to Fire-types such as Moltres and Entei when pitted against more offensive teams. Specifically, stall teams will have a hard time damaging Aerodactyl due to its blazing fast Taunt shutting down their attempts at setup while it simply Roosts to heal away the often negligible damage their attacks do. Stone Edge provides Aerodactyl with a strong STAB move to tear holes into opposing teams with. Earthquake gives it a means of damaging the various Rock- and Steel-types that resist Stone Edge, such as Aggron, Rhydon, and Steelix.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs and nature ensure Aerodactyl always outpaces Sceptile, but there are a few alternate spreads it can use with equal efficiency. An Adamant nature with 252 EVs invested in Speed allows it to outpace Scolipede and common variants of Sceptile that only aim to beat it. Alternatively, you could keep Jolly and run 216 Speed EVs, letting Aerodactyl outrun Swellow and neutral +1 Feraligatr, or bump it up to 232 to beat neutral +1 base 80s, but at that point you might want to consider simply maximizing its Speed. Life Orb is the item of choice here because this variant of Aerodactyl needs all the power it can get and has the ability to recover off the added recoil via Roost anyway.</p>

    <p>This set appreciates being paired with Pokemon that can take advantage of the few threats it cannot. Tangrowth and physically defensive Slowking typically stop this set cold in its tracks; thus, Roselia, which can use both of these Pokemon as setup bait, makes for an excellent partner. Offensively, Fire-types such as Entei and Moltres make for good partners, as they can easily come in and threaten out Ferroseed and the aforementioned Tangrowth. This, however, will leave your team terribly weak to Stealth Rock, so you might also want to consider adding a Rapid Spin user such as Kabutops to your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Hone Claws
    move 1: Hone Claws
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Aqua Tail / Double-Edge
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to patch up both of Aerodactyl's main issues: its lackluster power and the shaky accuracy of its STAB Stone Edge. The aforementioned problems are why Hone Claws is a good move on Aerodactyl, as it gives it both a power boost and perfect accuracy on its main STAB. After a Hone Claws boost, very few Pokemon in the tier can even think about tanking a Stone Edge, especially since they can't even hope for a miss. Earthquake lands a super effective hit on the Steel- and Rock-types that resist Aerodactyl's STAB. Aqua Tail rounds out the set's coverage by hitting Ground-types, such as Sandslash and Rhydon. Double-Edge is an acceptable replacement though, as it has a wide range of neutral coverage and takes advantage of Aerodactyl's alternate ability: Rock Head.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs and nature ensure Aerodactyl always outpaces Sceptile, but because Aerodactyl is so naturally fast, it can instead choose to use Adamant with 252 Speed EVs, letting it still outspeed Scolipede and the common variants of Sceptile that only aim to beat it. Alternatively, you can keep Jolly and run 216 Speed EVs, letting Aerodactyl outrun Swellow and neutral +1 Feraligatr, or 232 EVs, which beats neutral +1 base 80s, but at that point you might want to consider simply maximizing Speed. You could consider running Roost in the fourth slot, but this variant of Aerodactyl is usually better off simply trying to sweep late-game. Fire Blast can also be used with a Naive nature to hit Ferroseed and Tangrowth hard, but its utility ends there.</p>

    <p>As this set's purpose is to sweep, you should pair it with something that either breaks down its counters or takes advantage of them to the point where they become a liability. Moltres excels in this department, as its immense power means that a single free switch into Tangrowth or Ferroseed can very well lead to something dying. It shares a weakness to Stealth Rock with Aerodactyl, though, so you will definitely want to add a Rapid Spin user. Kabutops works well here, as in addition to spinning, it can help break down Rock-type resistant Pokemon to ease Aerodactyl's late-game sweep. A Grass-type, especially Roselia with its access to Spikes, is also recommended, as it will gladly come into the various Electric- and Water-type attacks aimed at the prehistoric beast.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Taunt / Roost
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set's primary purpose is to ensure Stealth Rock hits the opposing field as early as possible, making it a decent choice as a dedicated lead. Stone Edge acts as Aerodactyl's obligatory STAB move, as it will make a pretty good dent in just about anything that doesn't resist it. As for Pokemon that do, such as Aggron and Rhydon, Earthquake usually takes care of them in one or two hits. The final moveslot is reserved for another form of support. Taunt allows Aerodactyl to lead more efficiently, as it will prevent the opposition from laying down their own entry hazards alongside Aerodactyl. Roost, on the other hand, gives Aerodactyl some good staying power and allows it to act as a very solid check to various Fire-types such as Entei and Moltres throughout the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The listed EVs and nature ensure Aerodactyl always outpaces Sceptile, but you might also choose to use one of the following alternatives. An Adamant nature with 252 Speed EVs allows Aerodactyl to outpace Scolipede and the common variants of Sceptile that only aim to beat it. Alternatively, you could keep Jolly and run 216 Speed EVs, which lets Aerodactyl outrun Swellow and neutral +1 Feraligatr, or 232 EVs to beat neutral +1 base 80s, but at that point you might want to consider simply maximizing Speed. Life Orb is the primary item here because Team Preview somewhat mitigates the need for Focus Sash, but if you are sure you're going to lead with Aerodactyl often, use Focus Sash. However, don't get greedy and lead with it if you spot an offensive spinner such as Hitmonchan on the opposing team, as this could very well ensure Aerodactyl accomplishes absolutely nothing for that match.</p>

    <p>In order to make the most of this set, you should pair it with Pokemon that can really take advantage of the quick Stealth Rock support. Setup sweepers such as Omastar are among the best partners to this set, as Stealth Rock will not only break opposing Focus Sashes for them, but also secure many OHKOs. Additional hazard support in the form of Spikes from Pokemon such as Accelgor and Scolipede can also contribute to Aerodactyl's teammates' sweeps. You might also want to consider a spinblocker, as it'll make your opponent's attempts at getting rid of Aerodactyl's hard work futile. Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus stands out as the best spinblocking partner to this set, as it is one of the few Ghost-types that can keep up with the offensive momentum the type of teams this set is used on usually grab. Another option is to pair Aerodactyl with lots of U-turn and Volt Switch users, which force many switches, rack up Stealth Rock damage, and seize momentum at the same time.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Aerodactyl's average movepool means that most of what it can do well has already been covered in the above set descriptions. However, there are a few gimmicks that you might want to try. After all, who knows? Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised by the results. A Power Herb + Sky Attack set stands out among the more viable of these gimmicks, as the combination has lots of surprise value and gives Aerodactyl a one-time 140 Base Power STAB move to use on a wall such as Tangrowth for a potential free KO. Other moves such as Thunder Fang, Ice Fang, Tailwind, and Whirlwind can seem tempting, but they are generally inferior to the moves listed above. With access to both Sunny Day and Rain Dance and base 130 Speed, Aerodactyl can make for a very effective early-game weather setter when equipped with the appropriate weather-extension rock.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Countering Aerodactyl is all about having the sheer bulk to tank multiple hits from it. For this reason, Pokemon such as Torterra and physically defensive Slowking, which fear nothing that Aerodactyl commonly carries, make for the safest counters. Tangrowth and Ferroseed are a very close second to the aforementioned two, except they are very vulnerable to surprise Fire Blasts and Fire Fangs. Steelix can easily tank just about anything Aerodactyl can throw at it, but an Earthquake or Aqua Tail from the Choice Band set will put it in 2HKO range of that same attack later. Ground-types, such as Rhydon, Golurk, and Sandslash, are very effective checks against versions lacking Aqua Tail. Aggron can play mindgames with Choice Band Aerodactyl, forcing it to predict correctly, lest it be the next target of its mighty Head Smash. Another way of ensuring Aerodactyl won't do too much damage is by packing strong priority attacks such as Feraligatr's Aqua Jet and Spiritomb's Sucker Punch. Finally, common fast Choice Scarf users such as Manectric also make for effective checks.</p>
  2. Honko

    Honko
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    Aero should really have a dedicated lead set, but if you're gonna keep this "hybrid" garbage from the original then at least make Stealth Rock and Taunt the primary slashes. Roost can be slashed behind Taunt. Taunt + Roost is not a good set in RU.
  3. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    Changed it to reflect its use as a dedicated lead. I really don't have any quarrels with being told what to do on that set since I think its garbage either way. CB best.

    Would there be any opposition to me making CB the first set, followed by Hone Claws, and lastly the hybrid / lead / shit set?
  4. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    In terms of effectiveness there would likely be little opposition but in terms of relevance to the metagame it might be wiser to leave the lead set in the first position; its certainly the set that I've seen most often on the occasions I've seen Aero at all.
  5. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    I think Double-Edge should be the primary slash in the Hone Claws set. Aqua Tail is really onky useful for Sandslash and Rhydon, and +1 LO Aqua Tail is only doing 80% to max/max versions of both of them, while they both get the OHKO with Stone Edge after Stealth Rock and 1 turn of Life Orb recoil. Double-Edge is really useful when you can't afford a Stone Edge miss, and is more powerful on a neutral target than Earthquake, hitting Fighting-types and Ground-types harder than Earthquake would.
  6. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Oh yeah, definitely have Double-Edge at least slashed with Aqua Tail.
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
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    If a set is clearly and objectively more effective and dangerous than a more popular set, then the better set should be listed first, followed by the popular set. We should be encouraging people to use the better set suited for the metagame.
  8. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    CB>Lead=Hone Claws then, I have no preference in order on the last two.
  9. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    ok this is finally ready for qc

    the ac of all the sets are pretty repetitive because i just restate the alternate ev spreads, so should i just move that to oo and call it a day? or is oo reserved for moves/sets?
  10. Honko

    Honko
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    I have decided that Hybrid Attacker is a lame name and you should just call that set Lead. Roost should be slashed with Taunt, not with Stealth Rock. Aerodactyl is not a good stallbreaker; Slowking, Hitmonchan, Tangrowth, Steelix, Qwilfish, and Omastar can all KO it pretty easily. By just admitting the set is a lead you can actually talk about its weaknesses (particularly how leading with it is usually pointless if the opponent has Sandslash/Hitmonchan/Kabutops) but also its strengths (beating most other common leads like Smeargle/Uxie/Scolipede, generally useful fast Taunt and Stone Edge for beating things like Lilligant and Fire-types later in a match). This is by far Aerodactyl's most common set, but a lot of the people using it don't really understand its flaws or its place on a BW RU team; they just use it strictly like it's a DPP lead, and it probably ends up being a waste in half their battles. Educate them.
  11. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    So you want me to call it Lead and then go on to say it is not a dedicated lead? That seems counterproductive! What I will do, however, is add more stuff about how you should not lead with it in the write-up.

    Also, I don't know what you're smoking, but Taunt + Roost doesn't suck. It's might not be as good as it is in DPP (which is extremely debatable), but it's still good, being able to consistently check Fire-types and shit is cool.

    Having a "lead" set in BW on anything not named Froslass or like... Deoxys makes me go -_-
  12. Honko

    Honko
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    It is a lead. It wants to lead, but there are times when it shouldn't. Like when you see Sandslash is the opponent's first Pokemon. If they don't have Sandslash/Kabutops/Hitmonchan, then leading with Aero is usually a good choice.

    I don't see what Taunt does to help check Fire-types. If you want to beat Fire-types, use SR + Roost. Or one of the other two sets. But the really important thing is that Taunt + Roost plays significantly different from the lead. They should not be thrown into the same set. That will just lead to a lack of detail for both options. If you really want a Taunt + Roost, give it its own set. Personally I don't think it deserves it.
  13. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    leads don't exist in BW

    i'll change the slashes but there's no way i'm changing he name to lead (see above)

    edit: k made a stallbreaker set :)

    leads still don't exist in BW
  14. LuckOverSkill

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    I have to agree with kokoloko, leads don't exist in BW, you aren't supposed to "always lead with x pokemon unless the opponent has x, y or z". While it's true that some Pokemon are more suited to lead than others, I doubt Aerodactyl has the same effectiveness it had in DPP (even in the actual DPP metagame, if we can call it a metagame, Aerodactyl's usage is non existant as a lead). You are supposed to lead with what gives you the more favorable matchup, and Aero hardly does that, and with the Wifi Clause, its effectiveness as a "lead" is...pretty low actually, because while it has granted SR, starting 5-6 only to have "guaranteed" Rocks is kinda meh, especially since against more offensive teams Aero can actually revenge kill a lot of stuff.

    ...that's it
  15. Honko

    Honko
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    Smeargle, Crustle, Scolipede, Accelgor, Qwilfish, and Uxie all disagree with you. There are leads in BW, they just now have the option of not leading when you see an unfavorable matchup. This idea that leads just "don't exist" in BW is a stupid overreaction to team preview that should have died ages ago.

    If you want to call the set Stealth Rock instead, that's fine. Hybrid Attacker is stupid.
  16. Ginku

    Ginku Farbenprächtig
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    Qwilfish is not a lead
  17. kokoloko

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    ok stealth rock is a fine name i just wont name it lead

    edit: let me rephrase, aerodactyl is not one of the ~5 mons that can be used as a dedicated lead. SR alone is not worth it.
  18. LuckOverSkill

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    NOTHING is a lead in BW, unless you play team reliant, and that means get trashed by anyone that shows any resemblance of skill...I agree with the fact that the name hybrid attacker is...terrible, but it's NOT a lead, not only for the aforementioned reasons, but also because if you use Aerodactyl JUST TO lead (which is a terrible choice anyway), you start the match 6-5 (yes, you lay down Rocks...then it dies).
  19. Honko

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    If leading with Aero is going to put you down 6-5 then you lead with something else. There are plenty of times when you can lead with Aero and get a helpful fast Taunt or SR off without just sacking it. But anyway this discussion isn't really going anywhere and the set I want is there now so there's not much point in continuing this.

    My only problem now is with the stallbreaker. You say stall teams will have a hard time damaging it without "very specific mons" but Slowking, Hitmonchan, Tangrowth, Steelix, Qwilfish, and Omastar can all KO it easily. I'm not convinced it deserves a set at all. If it does, you're gonna have to be a lot more specific in selling it.
  20. kokoloko

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    In DPP no one would argue that stallbreaker Aerodactyl is bad and stall teams carried mons that could "easily KO it".

    LO Earthquake vs 160 HP Hitmonchan: 52.7% - 62.3%
    LO Earthquake vs 252 HP / 4 Def Steelix: 37.9% - 44.6%
    LO Earthquake vs 248 HP / 252 Def+ Qwilfish: 42.6% - 50.5% (After Intimidate)
    LO Earthquake vs 248 HP / 252 Def+ Omastar: 43.7% - 51.9%
    LO Stone Edge vs 248 HP / 252 Def+ Omastar: 32.7% - 38.8%

    All of these guys are unreliable checks. Chan straight up loses while the other three have to pick between attacking (in which case they can't set up) or risk dying in exchange for setting a single layer of hazards down.

    Slowking and Tangrowth are solid counters because of Renerator, but 1. you have teammates for that and 2. they don't lay down hazards, so they're safer to play around. Stall teams will have a hard time dealing with Aero because it can Roost on other common team members pretty easily.

    edit: im assuming perfect prediction on aero's because stall teams generally like to play it safe, but even without it, aero has the advantage.
  21. SilentVerse

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    • Change the name of the "Stallbreaker" set to something like Taunt + Roost or Life Orb Attacker. The set does ok vs stall, but its not just effective against stall teams; actually, I'd argue it's more effective against things like Spikestacking teams since it can shut down set up attempts and threaten everything with Stone Edge.
    • Imo just max the Speed for all Aero sets. There's no reason to lose to mons like Choice Scarf Magneton, neutral natured Choice Scarf Gallade, etc when Aero can easily deal with them. Also, people are just going to speed creep anyway so they can Stone Edge opposing Aerodactyls before they die, so I'd rather just max out the Speed.
    • For the lead set, mention pairing Aero with fast spikers like Accelgor, Scolipede, etc and spinblockers like OTR Cofagrigus since Aero makes a wonderful addition to spikestacking teams thanks to its blistering Speed, Taunt, and Stealth Rock.
    Will post more later.

    Edit: In response to below, nah. Stone Edge actually hits Tangrowth harder, and Double Edge hits just as hard as a super effective Aerial Ace, so there's no reason to mention it.

    Edit2: My bad, I forgot STAB. Still, Aerial Ace is only barely stronger than Stone Edge, so there's still no point to mention it.
  22. bluemon

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    you should mention aerial ace in the AC of the CB set for its ability to hit tangrowth hard on the switch in and neutral STAB on some pokes, but way too weak even with STAB
  23. kokoloko

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    @SV: idk about the speed--sceptile's analysis doesn't run max speed as the primary option--but everything else i have implemented
  24. Honko

    Honko
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    I'm fine with the Speed. Aero isn't really common enough to justify trying to outrun itself. It would be great if you could find some convenient calcs to support the usefulness of 80 HP EVs in the writeup though.

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  25. Lee

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    [​IMG]

    ???

    Should probably AC/OO Fire Blast - you mention using Fire Fang for Ferroseed on a few occasions but Fire Blast hits the standard Ferro way way harder.

    0 SpA Fire Blast vs 252/0+ Ferroseed = 63.01% - 75.34%
    252 Atk Fire Fang vs 252/252+ Ferroseed = 43.84% - 52.05%
    Choice Band 252 Atk Fire Fang vs 252/252+ Ferroseed = 64.38% - 76.71%

    Combine that with the fact that Fire Blast easily 2HKOs Tangrowth and there's really not much reason to mention Fire Fang outside the CB set.

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