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All in a Summer's Day

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by POtaTO123, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. POtaTO123

    POtaTO123

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    INTRODUCTION

    (Pardon my horrible grammer)

    Ok. I have been really inactive for the past 3 months now, and if you remember me you would remember my previous post was and OU team. I find OU too mainstream and it was getting really boring(No offense), so I decided to look for another tier to play, then BAM I found the ubers tier. I know I know, ubers is mainstream and all etc etc but I find it one the most interesting and fun tiers in pokemon. The ability to use all pokemon from all gens is really cool, and I get to use awesome beasts like Arceus etc etc. RMTs aren't really my thing in the first place, so pardon the untidiness. Anyway, the name came from this short story I read some time ago, i might have screwed up the title but whatever... As the name suggests, it is a sun team, but a really messed up one i suppose. Not much of an achievement but the highest rank I have ever got up to was about 500-ish. Kyogre was too mainstream, and I really liked Ho-oh,and so I built a team with it. Without further ado(Pardon my cliche-ness):
    MY TEAM:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    (No team-building process cuz' im too lazy :P)


    THE TEAM
    Note: I have forgotten to put the extra 4 EVs on some pokes
    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    To start the summer festival, you either need a beast or a horse. Guess who won the spot. Groundon is there to summon the sun, and sweep whenever it can. Personally my favourite set-Standard double dancer, only with a Jolly nature to score a 2HKO first on opposing groundons. Ev spread are self-explanatory, Earthquake for obvious STAB, and stone edge to hit flyers (Especially Ho-oh and Rayquaza). Lum berry is a bit special over the common life orb or lefties. Since I would be leading with it almost all the time, I have to be able to beat the common leads. Lum berry is especially for Darkrai: Dark Void, Wake up, EQ, switch. Not very effective but hurts it enough to revenge with my Palkia. Against Deoxys-s leads I EQ immediately as it taunts or magic coats. Nothing much about Groundon to say (I'm a lazy person)

    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Spacial Rend
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast


    Ahh, my revenge killer, pretty good overall with that god-like speed tier(Considering this is ubers) to jump on +1 DD Ray , and scarfed base 90s. Decent at what it does best. Everyone knows what sun teams hate most: KYOGRE, so IT MUST DIE. Lol pardon my random caps. Yea this is my kyogre killer, but is an effective revenge killer overall after its job is done. Basically, switch in on a predicted water spout or surf, then start scaring it away with that almighty thunder. 2HKOs nicely, but works best with entry hazards, cuz' switching might be game-changing (MIGHT). Spacial Rend is a compulsory STAB that revenges and nails dragons hard . Fire blast for the pseudo-STAB in the sun, Cleanly OHKOes (Duh) predicted Ferrothorn switch-ins. Thunder for hitting my nemesis hard in the rain it provides (Thank you Kyogre). And Hydro pump... I never EVER use it so I'm planning to switch it for Ice beam, so suggestions pleaseeee. Also Evs are pretty standard.

    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Tailwind
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Roost

    The god-like Phoenix is what made me fall in love with the ubers tier. Not sure why, but it looks god-like, is god-like, and hit god-like. Its dual STABs are insanely powerful, and I like how it scores and OHKO on non Def-invested Kyogre with brave bird after SR. My favourite set. (Tank wasn't really helpful) I used to run flame charge on this thing, but the recoil with each hit wasn't very appealing, causing me too roost to often. Roost to heal of SR damage (If I don't get the spin) and the recoil from Brave Bird and LO. LO is too good paired with its almighty base 130 attack, allowing me to hit really hard. Groundon really synergises well with this thing: Sun, rock resist, Zekrom killer, blarblar. My dual STABs in brave bird and Sacred fire. Zekrom is not really a problem here cuz' it can't really afford to get burned by my 50% burning chance sacred fire. Sacred fire to hit every thing that doesn't resist really hard(Duh). Also Evs are obvious, with tailwind allowing me to use an Adamant nature.



    [​IMG]
    Reshiram @ Life Orb
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Blue Flare
    - Dragon Pulse

    Quite a unique set in my opinion, catches many people off-guard as they scramble to try and break my sub as fast as possible. I think I might give reshiram 404 hp to beat Blissey and chansey in the Sun, but it might be kinda stupid so suggestions againnnnn. Sub roost is like the original Kyurem set, works quite well, and works like the smogon-suggested sub set only forgoing focus blast (Why did they even suggest this, Reshiram already has perfect coverage with it dual STABS) with roost to lengthen its short lifespan together with more fire-power (No puns intended) with life orb. Not sure if sub is really necessary but whatever. Insane power in the sun with blue flare, OHKOes everything not resisting it. (Even resisted pokemon die from my dragon pulse) Dragon pulse completes my unresisted coverage and hits dragons hard overall. Excellent pokemon IMO that I feel should receive more usage in ubers with the god-like blue flare in the sun(Although stealth rock weak). WHY IS EVERYONE SO AGAINST SR-WEAK POKES WHYWHYWHY??? sorry lol randomness. DARMANITAN FTW USE IT lol this is like an advertising RMT.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin

    I am getting tired of typing line after line, so I'll try to make this short and sweet. Forretress is my only non-uber pokemon in my team, and it's sole purpose: Spin and set-up SR. Spin to let Ho-oh switch in safely, two hazards to let oppsing team take more passive damage, and toxic to prevent it becoming a set-up fodder. Counters non-EQ extremekiller quite well. Well nothing more to say, Evs to maximize the special defense to take hits better (Considering that it's defense is naturally good). Lefties to lengthen lifespan.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Judgment
    - Recover

    If you didn't realize it earlier the sprite is wrong, but i can't find the correct one so WTV. Arceus-Ghost is my spin blocker (Giratina-o stacks my dragon weakness) and also my extremekiller arceus. I am planning to change this to Arceus Rock to check Ho-oh and Reshiram and extremekiller arceus, which pose quite a threat to my team. I'm getting really sleepy now... Anyway this member most likely would be removed. Im not writing much for this poke as it probably would be changed. Evs to outspeed extremekiller and hit WoW first. If it has lum i would have to pray the next WoW hits.

    There, what a tiring RMT to write. Please leave your suggestions and I will see to it. Threat List would be edited in soon. Thank you for reading and hope that you would take your time to comment.

    THANK YOU ALL

    -END-
  2. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    Don't know much about Ubers so this isn't a rate really, but putting CB on Groudon is a bad idea since it defeats the point of the set. Lum Berry is a great item on your current set as it allows you to nab a boost that will give more power than a CB boost without having to fear status such as burn and then proceed to tear through the opposing team.
  3. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Hey there POtaTO123, nice sun team!

    Your team suffers from a few common sun-weaknesses though. Firstly, the commonly used now-a-days RestTalk Calm Mind Kyogre can easily setup on your only counter to it, Palkia, and proceed to beat your team with repeated, boosted Scalds. In addition, Mewtwo can also be troublesome for you, as Palkia won't be able to damage it after a few Calm Mind boosts, and Ghost Arceus takes a whole lot of damage. Rayquaza can also be threatening, as with Spikes support and residual damage, Palkia won't be able to tank it if it has ExtremeSpeed, and once Palkia's gone Dragon Dance Rayquaza can sweep you easily. Moreover, Gliscor can literally 6-0 your team once it gets a Substitute, as it can proceed to poison stall your team away with Toxic/Substitute/Taunt/Poison Heal.

    To fix your Gliscor and CM Kyogre problem, I want to suggest Latias. With Soul Dew, she can effectively beat Kyogre by tanking many of its moves, and with Levitate, Gliscor can't damage her with Earthquake. If you do choose to use Refresh, you have a perfect counter to Gliscor, but if you feel that you can let something else take the poison or something, you should try Psyshock to get past opposing Ho-Oh and such. I'd probably go with Refresh just because Gliscor can literally 6-0 Sun teams on its own. With Dragon Pulse she can do massive damage to either one of the mentioned threats, and can Calm Mind up to wreak havoc.
    Latias (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 52 HP / 204 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Refresh / Psyshock


    Next, without Palkia, you're left weak to fast paced threats such as Mewtwo, Darkrai, Skymin, Deoxys, and boosted sweepers such as Rayquaza. I recommend using Choice Scarf Genesect instead of Reshiram. Reshiram doesn't really do much for your team, to be honest; its power and pressure on the foe is indeed great, but Genesect can give you a lot more momentum by using powerful U-turns. With Ice Beam, you can beat +1 Rayquaza and Skymin easily, whereas Iron Head wrecks the Kyurem formes. Explosion is used to go out with a bang when needed!
    Genesect (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Explosion
    - Ice Beam


    Next, I think that you are overloading Forretress. Using two formes of hazards on it is an overkill, especially when Groudon can lay down Stealth Rock just as well. I recommend Pain Split over Stealth Rock and an EV spread of 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef. The EV spread ensure that Life Orb +1 Rayquaza will not 2HKO with Outrage, whereas Pain Split increases Forretress's lasting power. Use Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Stone Edge / Fire Punch on Groudon. Doing so gives you a reliable offensive Stealth Rock user, that packs a lot of power within its moves.

    You're slightly weak to Blaziken right now, so I suggest changing Ho-Oh's EV spread to 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe, Impish nature to tank on Physical hits better, such as Extreme Killer's ExtremeSpeed and Blaziken's Flare Blitz. You should also try Substitute > Tail Wind as it gives Ho-Oh many free hits and immunity to status.

    TL;DR (open)
    • Latias > Palkia
    • Genesect > Reshiram
    • Pain Split > Stealth Rock, 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef on Forretress
    • Stealth Rock / EQ / Stone Edge / Fire Punch on Groudon
    • 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe, Impish nature, Substitute > Tailwind on Ho-Oh


    Good Luck!
  4. POtaTO123

    POtaTO123

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    @audiosurfer, yea i agree cb would be kinda dumb. But thanks for the "rate".
    @furry, thanks for your incredibly helpful rate. I have been thinking of switcing palkia out for latias, and you just gave me a eeason to use it. But the ev spread is a bit wierd, so could you explain that? Anyway i would definitely test latias. About genesect as my revenge killer, i don't see the point of explosion, so maybe you can suggest someting better for my team. I find genesect a bit too specialised, only countering specific threats, so can you suggest how the set might be canged so that it isnt dead weight on my team after doing its job. About my ho-oh, i feel that the sub roost set is inferior to my current set, as im a really HO person and its really successful currently. Also, your suggestion about groudon and forry made sense, ill try ps forry, and ill switch my groudons set. Also, does ayone think that i should replace my arceus-ghost?
    Thanks for the rate everyone
  5. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    Lum DD Groudon / Choice Scarf Palkia / Tailwind Roost Ho-Oh / Support Roar Ghostceus / Forretress / SubRoost Reshiram

    This team is weak to, in order of importance -

    Extreme Killer - you lose 75% of the time

    Ho-Oh - groudon can kill it but can't switch in, destroys Reshiram, Forretress, Ghost Arceus, Palkia locked into the wrong move or in sun.

    Latias - it can run you over with psyshock and Choice Scarf Palkia can't revenge it unless it's weakened

    Mewtwo - can't be reliably revenged by Palkia

    Kyurem-W - can OHKO and 2HKO everything (Ho-Oh is too frail :<)

    Kyogre - placed lower, because while Palkia is a check, it isn't a very good one. however, this is offset due to their offensive nature of your team. SDef punishes Palkia mispredicts and hard counters Reshiram too.

    Darkrai - 64% of the time something gets slept and there ain't nothing you can do about it

    While Furai's suggestions are actually pretty good they significantly change the team dynamic and make it more of a balanced team.

    To maintain the offensive presence of this team I would like to actually suggest a Xatu, as it pairs better with offensive Ho-Oh than Forretress, which would struggle to get a spin off.

    Xatu
    Show Hide

    move 1: Heat Wave
    move 2: U-Turn
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Magic Bounce
    nature: Impish
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe


    Although outspeeding Bulky Excadrill is a good idea (speed creep at your own discretion). Heat Wave destroys Ferrothorn / Forretress obviously, U-Turn for momentum blah blah.

    On Choice Scarf Palkia I would recommend Outrage over Hydro Pump, so you can reliably revenge Latias if it comes to it. Hydro Pump is also completely useless when the opponent is not using rain, whereas Thunder is only needed against rain anyway. Additionally, I would recommend Draco Meteor over Spacial Rend, as the ability to OHKO Darkrai and other frail threats is very important.

    To keep up with the offensive theme of the team, and to provide Stealth Rock support I am going to suggest an offensive Stealth Rock Groudon.

    Groudon
    Show Hide

    move 1: Fire Punch
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Drought
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


    Darkrai is unlikely to sleep you turn 1 with Xatu in reserves so... This set doesn't have to boost to kill shit is strong, etc. Jolly Lum 252 Atk Groudon can fail to OHKO Dialga so that's bad.

    On Reshiram I recommend using Stone Edge over Substitute, as it is an excellent Ho-Oh lure.

    I suggest bumping up Ghost Arceus's EVs to 252 HP 240 Def 16 Spe and it can serve as physically bulky defensive pivot. Also, replace Roar with Focus Blast so you can actually hit Extreme Killer if you need to.

    Good luck.
  6. POtaTO123

    POtaTO123

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    for a moment i thought this rmt was dead, until poppy commented. Thanksss alott btw, really helped. But a few questions, does changing ghostceus evs have any significant impact? Like shadow claw becomes a 3HKO? Also, u stated kyurem w be a big problem to my team, yea its kindof a bitch (but isnt it to most teams), but how do you suggest to counter it. Scarf palkia is my only bet, but sacrificing a poke is quite shitty, so what do you suggest i replace? Anyway, i realised reshiram was lacking in the stall department( sub roost was really dumb and random), so yea i would replace it with SE.anyway thanks alot poppy
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    A- The main thing here is that 204 SpA EVs allow Latias to OHKO Palkia with Dragon Pulse without Stealth Rock. Rest are dumped into Speed to be as fast as possible and leftovers are into HP.
    B- You could try Flamethrower over it, but don't dismiss Explosion, as it can do tons of damage when boosted. Refer to Jibaku's post for fruther reasoning, as he basically hit it dead-on.
    C- Your team doesn't need more than that. Genesect checks and beats Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Latias, which are all threats to your team. The rest are beaten by the rest of your team.
    D- Definitely don't do it. Your team relies on entry hazards and a spin blocker is mandatory for the team's success. Moreover, Ghost Arceus is your most reliable way of beating Extreme Killer. I would definitely take Poppy's suggestion abost the EVs and Focus Blast, so you could actually tank some hits and actually do something back to Extreme Killer.
  8. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    Kyurem-W is impossible to straight up 'counter', the closest thing it has to that is Chansey.

    For an offensive team, hoping to switch into it without being 2HKOed limits your options to Steel Arceus, Kyogre, and max HP Ho-Oh, all of which still require prediction. I would just live with it and force it out, getting Stealth Rock up early limits the number of times it can come in a lot; live with it and maintain pressure. Alternatively, making Reshiram Timid will let you get the jump on any Modest Kyurem-W.

    Physically Bulky Ghost Arceus helps you check Extreme Killer, and perhaps equally importantly, Mewtwo. The EVs simply maximise your defense while still allowing you to outspeed maximum invested neutral natured base 90s.

    edit: Fire Punch 2HKOes Skarmory anyway. And also OHKOes Ferrothorn and Forretress, there is no reason to use Fire Blast because Earthquake 3HKOes opposing Groudon anyway and Fire Punch still breaks Gliscor's Substitutes.

    Don't change Groudon's EVs, outspeeding as many things as possible is crucial to maintain momentum, and for a team like this that is very important.
  9. lousy918

    lousy918

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    Uh also change the nature of Ghostceus to Bold (adding on to Poppy's).

    About "Kyurem-W - can OHKO and 2HKO everything (Ho-Oh is too frail :<)", It can actually 2HKO the entire metagame after Stealth Rock bar Chansey.

    Also Fire Blast > Fire Punch on Groudon, as it allows Groudon to hit Skarmory and Forry's weaker SDef. It also prevents Iron Barbs damage from Ferrothorn. Even with a negative nature, it is still approx. 80% the power of Fire Punch. Also change Groudon's EVs to 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def to take hits better, since Groudon sits in the base 90 range.
  10. evillocke

    evillocke

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    Furry, on your latias set I noticed it was lacking grass knot. Grass knot OHKOes groudon, kyogre, and many other heavy threats.
  11. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Grass Knot is not mandatory at all on Calm Mind Latias. Sure, OHKOing Groudon and such is great, but Dragon Pulse does enough damage already. The only set that really appreciates Grass Knot is the 3 Attacks Latias, so she won't have to decrease her SpA with Draco Meteor. Dragon Pulse is already extremely powerful and easily 2HKOs Groudon and Kyogre.

    EDIT: Pardon me, Dragon Pulse 2HKOs Kyogre after a Calm Mind boost, which is very likely to happen. Such a tiny mess-up, sorry about it!
  12. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    @Furry
    You've managed to turn this team into this team with your rates 9.9, minus some spread differences. The unfortunate thing is, that would have been the kind of approach I'd have given.

    @Gliscor in general
    Anyways, Gliscor isn't really that big of an issue because Forretress + Ho-Oh is enough to stop it imo. Forry can come in, Rapid Spin, and then Ho-Oh/Forry can switch around repeatedly to stall out Gliscor. Ho-Oh will most likely take a Toxic in the process but Regenerator will allow it to shrug that off. Try to make switches as unpredictably as possible to minimize damage from Earthquake / other things getting poisoned from mispredicts.

    @ Xatu suggestion
    One thing I found when using Xatu is that using it as a Stealth Rock blocker is actually incredibly difficult - moreso than spinning with Forretress. The prime reason is that Dialga is a very common Stealth Rocker and it will not hesitate to shred Xatu to pieces. Offensive SR Groudon is also quite problematic. IMO Xatu was much more of an antispikes pkmn, and Ho-Oh is already immune to that, but you can take that as you wish.
  13. POtaTO123

    POtaTO123

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    (Short reply)

    I shall ignore the grass knot dragon pulse argument (And lousy918's post [NO U])
    About @Jibaku's post, i realised xatu cannot stop SR forever, so do you think I should replace it back to forry or just let it stay?

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