Ninetales does not need to be a part of a hail team. I literally never said any of these things. Ninetales just best functions on a hail team since it has synergies with the whole team. I can see Light Clay Ninetales becoming a thing so that you can use unextended 5 turn hail to disrupt other weathers and then set up 7 turn screens.
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Pokémon Alola Ninetales
- Thread starter Colonel M
- Start date
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dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
But the point is that's not true. It functions best on hyperoffense where it can get Aurora Veil up and get out of the way so a sweeper can get to work, and it doesn't have to come in a bunch of times in order to do that (which is good, because it's weak to Stealth Rock and pretty frail). On a dedicated hail team it DOES need to come in multiple times, and while it does enable hail teams to work, it doesn't actually synergize all that well with hail abusers because it shares a bunch of weaknesses with them and doesn't have enough offensive presence for A-tales and your hail abuser of choice to overwhelm mutual checks like birdspam and similar cores did. You're correct that A-tales will show up for five-turn hail and maxed-out screens, but that is its best role to play. It does not function better on a hail team than a straightforward hyperoffense build.
You do realize that this is true for rain too. It just happens that ice is HORRID defensive typing unlike water which is amazing defensive typing. Most rain abusers are indeed weak to electric and grass (eg. omastar, tornadus, and kabutops). But, ice has a ton more weaknesses that are common offensive types (fire, fighting, steel, rock) and very few resistances (only ice lol)
dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
I'm aware of how the defensive typings work and the lack of defensive synergy between rain setters and rain abusers, yes. The difference between this situation and rain is pretty substantial, though, in that Drizzle mons actually have some measure of offensive or defensive presence (Specstoed and to a lesser extent Scarftoed in 5th-gen on offense, and defensive Politoed sets and now Pelipper on defense) to make up for the lack of defensive synergy. A-tales doesn't. Pelipper in particular also has Knock Off and a slow U-turn to offer its team, and defensive Politoed has Encore to work with. These are traits that are sorta generically good, true, but not enough to make these Pokemon worthwhile outside of a dedicated rain team. Rain abusers are also just a whole lot better than hail abusers in general, so what you end up with is a specific team archetype that works well and a weather setter that's not so hot outside of that archetype but has a ton to offer within the confines of that archetype. The situation for A-tales is more or less the opposite - Aurora Veil is incredibly useful, especially on hyperoffense (the team style it fits best on) but still sorta solid on any build with a boosting sweeper, but the hail abusers aren't that great and all A-tales has to offer is Aurora Veil and setting up the hail itself (and Freeze-Dry, I guess, but that's not exactly amazing given how weak A-tales is on offense) without bringing any serious offensive or defensive presence to the table to make up for a lack of defensive synergy and shitty defensive typing.
tl;dr the rain setters are built to be good on rain teams specifically and have a fair bit to bring to the table within that archetype, and A-tales has more to offer different styles while only improving hail teams from "trash" to "mediocre"
tl;dr the rain setters are built to be good on rain teams specifically and have a fair bit to bring to the table within that archetype, and A-tales has more to offer different styles while only improving hail teams from "trash" to "mediocre"
It's also worth noting that the best rain sweeper, Kingdra, isn't weak to either electric or grass (or rock), so while it doesn't have defensive synergy with rain setters per se, at least it doesn't stack nasty weaknesses, as hail sweepers always will (and the weaknesses that you'll stack are some nasty ones to have, like Rock and Fire). Stuff like Seismitoad and MegaPert are also immune to one of water's primary weaknesses, so there's definitely some defensive synergy there. I've been running only hail for days, and while I can say that it's not as godawful as it's been in the past, it's really made me despise the Ice typing. It's hard to build a decent hail team, that's for damn sure.
So I read this whole thing and I didn't see anyone mention Wishiwashi.. Laugh meow though but let me explain:
First Wishiwashi does the single most important thing for Ninetales by taking its 4x Weakness to Steel and giving it a resistance to 2 (Fire and Steel) of its problems by using soak. This unfortunately takes away all of Ninetales STABs but when you're hiding behind Aurora Veil with Resistance to most of your problems with a tank in Wishiwashi who can throw out soaks for Freeze-Dry(if you run it) its more or less a trade.
After you are soaked Moonblast is no longer useful and with Tapu's all Fairy and fairly common you're not going to need it. What you should put in its place is Dark Pulse for the coverage to Ghosts and that annoying Oranguru.
Another useful thing here is also Helping Hand/Earthquake. Ninetales throws up a Protect for Wishiwashi to land an Earthquake on more problems including Tapu Koko. Helping Hand also covers your loss of STABs even though it isn't great it can help Ninetales sweep with a No STAB 165 base Blizzard.
Another bonus to Wishiwashi is that it's lack of speed sets it up for an Opponents Trick Room (or your own) to abuse first attack Earthquakes and disrupt their combos.
For the 4th move I'm still playing but Scald is nice, Toxic is always good, Surf is also a viable option with a Ninetales Protect.
Wishiwashi-School @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Schooling
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Soak
- Helping Hand
- Scald
- Earthquake
Ninetales-Alola (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Dark Pulse
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
I'm still playing around with it but so far Wishiwashi is my favorite partner for Ninetales.
First Wishiwashi does the single most important thing for Ninetales by taking its 4x Weakness to Steel and giving it a resistance to 2 (Fire and Steel) of its problems by using soak. This unfortunately takes away all of Ninetales STABs but when you're hiding behind Aurora Veil with Resistance to most of your problems with a tank in Wishiwashi who can throw out soaks for Freeze-Dry(if you run it) its more or less a trade.
After you are soaked Moonblast is no longer useful and with Tapu's all Fairy and fairly common you're not going to need it. What you should put in its place is Dark Pulse for the coverage to Ghosts and that annoying Oranguru.
Another useful thing here is also Helping Hand/Earthquake. Ninetales throws up a Protect for Wishiwashi to land an Earthquake on more problems including Tapu Koko. Helping Hand also covers your loss of STABs even though it isn't great it can help Ninetales sweep with a No STAB 165 base Blizzard.
Another bonus to Wishiwashi is that it's lack of speed sets it up for an Opponents Trick Room (or your own) to abuse first attack Earthquakes and disrupt their combos.
For the 4th move I'm still playing but Scald is nice, Toxic is always good, Surf is also a viable option with a Ninetales Protect.
Wishiwashi-School @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Schooling
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Soak
- Helping Hand
- Scald
- Earthquake
Ninetales-Alola (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Dark Pulse
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
I'm still playing around with it but so far Wishiwashi is my favorite partner for Ninetales.
Ngl this mon is pretty legit actually lol. It's a really good support for set up sweepers. Which is why i think Safeguard should really be slashed on the main set it's not an inferior option at all, most pokemon are going to throw status at you to annoy your set up sweepers and a single Lum Berry won't help. Hidden Power Fire actually doesnt help that much... It's extremely weak coming off 81 SpA no boosting item and you're more of a supporter than an attacker with this set anyway, you would preferably switch out to something like Volcarona or Charizard-X most of the time. But nice set thank you.
Hello everyone! I just want to ask, what does ivs:0 attack mean?
Ninetales
Abilities: Snow Cloak / Snow Warning (Available)
Stats: 73 HP / 67 Atk / 75 Def / 81 SpA / 100 SpD / 109 Spe
Moveset:
Level Up
Start - Powder Snow
L4 - Tail Whip
L7 - Roar
L9 - Baby-Doll Eyes
L10 - Ice Shard
L12 - Confuse Ray
L15 - Icy Wind
L18 - Payback
L20 - Mist
L23 - Feint Attack
L26 - Hex
L28 - Aurora Beam
L31 - Extrasensory
L34 - Safeguard
L36 - Ice Beam
L39 - Imprison
L42 - Blizzard
L44 - Grudge
L47 - Captivate
L50 - Sheer Cold
TMs
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Round
TM66 - Payback
TM70 - Aurora Veil
TM77 - Psych Up
TM79 - Frost Breath
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM97 - Dark Pulse
TM100 - Confide
Egg moves
Egg - Freeze-Dry
Egg - Hypnosis
Egg - Flail
Egg - Spite
Egg - Disable
Egg - Howl
Egg - Agility
Egg - Encore
Egg - Moonblast
Egg - Power Swap
Egg - Secret Power
Egg - Charm
Egg - Tail Slap
Egg - Extrasensory
Level Up
Start - Dazzling Gleam
Start - Dazzling Gleam
Start - Imprison
Start - Nasty Plot
Start - Ice Beam
Start - Ice Shard
Start - Confuse Ray
Start - Safeguard
TMs
TM03 - Psyshock
TM04 - Calm Mind
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Round
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Aurora Veil
TM77 - Psych Up
TM79 - Frost Breath
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM97 - Dark Pulse
TM99 - Dazzling Gleam
TM100 - Confide
Egg moves
Egg - Freeze-Dry
Egg - Hypnosis
Egg - Flail
Egg - Spite
Egg - Disable
Egg - Howl
Egg - Agility
Egg - Encore
Egg - Moonblast
Egg - Power Swap
Egg - Secret Power
Egg - Charm
Egg - Tail Slap
Egg - Extrasensory
Overview
A Pokemon walled by a Fire-type that has nine tales...
...Well this is awkward.
Alola Ninetales is a Pokemon that was given an alternative form to its regular form in Alola. With it brought the gift of Snow Warning - an ability that was once only available to Auroros and (Mega) Abomasnow. Gen VII brought a few new toys to Hail teams in the form of Aurora Veil, an attack that gives Reflect and Light Screen in one move while Hail is on the field, and Slush Rush abilities for Alola Sandslash and Beartic. The increased Speed is very noteworthy because it bypasses a lot of Pokemon that Ninetales could not outspeed before such as Terrakion, Garchomp, and Salamence. The Alola Form has some pretty cool (pun intended) things going on for it.
Alola Ninetales is still plagued by a myriad of issues, though. For starters its quadruple Steel-type weakness cannot be ignored. This makes it prone to Bullet Punch users such as Metagross and Scizor. Furthermore, the Stealth Rock weakness is ever-present on Alola Ninetales. This cuts into Alola Ninetales's longevity. Finally, lacking moves that hit Fire- and Steel-types is a major issue for it as well. Still, Alola Ninetales has a couple neat tricks going for it that we're going to discuss in-depth.
Potential Movesets:
[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Aurora Veil
move 2: Freeze-Dry
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Encore
item: Light Clay / Leftovers
ability: Snow Warning
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk
[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
- Aurora Veil gives Alola Ninetales a great niche in being the fastest and most reliable user of the move thanks to Snow Warning and high Speed.
- Freeze-Dry gives Alola Ninetales a fighting chance against Water-types. This is best against Toxapex, who otherwise resists STAB Moonblast, or Pelipper, Quagsire and Mantine, who is quadruple weak to Freeze-Dry.
- If Water-types are of no major concern Blizzard can be used for a stronger STAB Ice-type attack. Considering Rain's popularity at this time, though, Blizzard probably won't be seen as a superior option anytime soon.
- Moonblast gives Alola Ninetales an option to hit Pokemon such as Kyurem-B, Keldeo, and Tyranitar.
- Encore allows Alola Ninetales to take advantage of Pokemon who would use Alola Ninetales as setup bait and lock them onto attacks that don't necessarily harm Ninetales.
- Hidden Power Fire gives Alola Ninetales a way to prevent Scizor from switching in freely.
- Hidden Power Ground helps Alola Ninetales become as least susceptible to Heatran as possible.
- Hidden Power Water gets an honorable mention for handling Fire-types who otherwise really wreck Alola Ninetales.
- Hypnosis gives Alola Ninetales an option to attempt to cripple one Pokemon on the opponent's team; however, the 60% accuracy makes it a shoddy option.
Set Details
- Max Speed to allow Alola Ninetales to outspeed as many threats as possible while tying, at worst, with Kartana.
- Max Special Attack allows Alola Ninetales to hit as hard as possible. This prevents it from being potential setup bait from Pokemon such as Gyarados who, otherwise, could take advantage of weaker STAB Blizzards and set up on Alola Ninetales.
- Maximizing durability in place of offense is a valid option as Aurora Veil can allow Ninetales to survive an attack a bit easier.
- Light Clay helps maximize Aurora Veil's effect as long as possible.
- Leftovers is a longevity option for Alola Ninetales.
- Icy Rock extends Hail's duration, which will help Slush Rush users such as Alola Sandslash and Beartic stay fast as long as possible.
Other Options
Opinion
- Nasty Plot bolster's Alola Ninetale's offenses further, though its lack of coverage moves hinder such a setup.
- Power Swap can also help Alola Ninetales prevent being used as setup bait by swapping its offenses with the opponent.
- Safeguard can further protect the team from status. Also an okay option.
- RestTalk - if only for lasting longer. Not really recommended
Aurora Veil, Snow Warning, Freeze-Dry, and decent typing help make Alola Ninetales a pretty chill Pokemon. It may not be a Pokemon that will remain in OU forever, though I could see it pop in and out every now and then to utilize some of its interesting perks. The common weaknesses of Fire, Rock, and Steel do not help Alola Ninetales. Furthermore, Alola Ninetales struggles a lot against Fire and Steel thanks to the lack of the diversity in its movepool.
On Pokemon that don't use physical Attacks, you want to give them 0 Attack IVs (the usual "best" is 31). The reason for this is that, in case you are Confused (the only time you would ever do physical damage), you do as little damage to yourself as possible.
Every pokemon has an "individual value" for every stat that ranges from 0-31, and that number is simply added to the final stat. It's desirable for a special attacker to minimize its attack stat for certain niche cases like the opponent's use of confusion-inducing moves or Foul Play, which damages the enemy based on its own attack stat.
Ninjaed.
How can I give Alolan Ninetales 0 Attack IVs?
Do you mean on the cartridge or on Pokemon Showdown? On showdown, in the Teambuilder tab, when you go to set a Pokemon's EVs, there's an IV box to the right of the EV slider.
How can I give my Alolan Ninetales Attack IVs 0? I am playing currently at the moment Pokemon SU at Nintendo DS XL
You can't manually give it 0 IVs in Attack if it was not born/caught with 0 IVs in Attack. If you want 0 Attack IVs, keep catching male Vulpixes until you have one with 0 IVs in Attack, then just use it to breed with a female Snow Warning Vulpix. Honestly though, if you're playing on cartridge, I wouldn't fret too much about making sure you have 0 IVs in Attack, as the scenarios where it would be helpful are very few and far between.
In the future, I would recommend directing questions like this to the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread, as threads like these are mainly intended to discuss the competitive merits of these Pokemon in the OU environment.
breed your ninetales/vulpix with pokemon in the same egg group or a ditto with 0 iv in attack, have one of them hold destiny knot, and hatch your eggs until you find one with 0 iv in attack. you should probably look into "competitive breeding basics" video on youtube if you haven't done it before
nathespian I really recommend doing what TheTraininator is suggesting since I'm assuming you are new to competitive. Another idea is GOOGLE IT. It's the turn of the century and google is your friend.
The Swinubs from the Island Scan QR Codes come with Freeze-Dry on them, which saves a considerable amount of time.
Alternatively you can breed Vulpix with a Smeargle that knows Freeze-Dry.
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Toxapex: 116-140 (38.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage
it's not going to happen
I've been running 248HP/8SpA/252Spe purely for that reason. Ninetales doesn't hit hard regardless, and it provides a lot more utility being able to set up Aurora Veil 2-3 times rather than just 1. Honestly, the only time I ever click an attack is to kill something like Pelipper with Freeze-Dry.
Not that Tyranitar and Hippowdon are exactly common, but does AlolaTales stand any chance of doing relevant damage to THEM with Moonblast and Ibeam/blizzard respectively if it's offensively EV'd? Like, 2HKO on the switch sort of deals? Or can it do so without offensive EVs?
EDIT: Decided to not be lazy and just run my own calcs lol. (Timid nature used for tales)
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD (neutral nature) Tyranitar in Sand: 128-152 (31.7 - 37.7%) -- 87.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Hidden Power Fighting vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD (neutral nature) Tyranitar in Sand: 112-132 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO with SR)
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 548-648 (254.8 - 301.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Ninetales-Alola Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 416-492 (193.4 - 228.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Hidden Power Fighting vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD (neutral nature) Tyranitar in Sand: 112-132 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO with SR)
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 548-648 (254.8 - 301.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Ninetales-Alola Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 416-492 (193.4 - 228.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Okay yeah, investing in SpA seems pretty worthless unless you want that chance to 2HKO offensive TTar.
Freeze-Dry will actually also OHKO even specially defensive Hippo, so I almost wonder if it might be worth dropping Ice Beam for something else (though hell if I know what). Not sure if Ice Beam is needed to secure any other KOs, though. (Also, no hippo in their right mind is probably gonna be staying in on AlolaTales anyway lol)
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Honestly, I'd just recommend building a team around Aurora Veil support over trying to make the offensive EVs on Ninetales work; you can pretty easily secure a sweep with Aurora Veil up, and I think you actually lose a lot of momentum trying to KO things with Ninetales.
I think you had the calc settings off. Ninetales definitely cannot OHKO Hippowdon under any circumstances. I think you had it set at lvl 50 with Ninetales at lvl 100. Ice Beam is a guaranteed 2HKO on Hippowdon with 252 spatk EVs after Leftovers recovery.
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