Anything Goes Resources

MZ

And now for something completely different
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By switching I mean you switch into it on the turn it uses DD.

And yeah okay Leftovers is viable too (Added it in the other options). But I don't think its worth using over Rocky Helmet.

BTW, Foul Play takes the opponents attack stat into account :P
I know about foul play, it's the same calc as a +2 arceus, and even when switching into a dd your example is still pretty misleading for several reasons, although it's moot now anyway. You can also respond to multiple people in one post to prevent constant double or triple posting btw, just scroll up and click reply
 

Josh

=P
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OVERVIEW
Klefki is one of the most meta defining mons in Anything Goes. It’s actually so meta defining it got a famous nickname, “SwagKeys” with the common “SwagPlay” strategy. This is because in AG, there is no Swagger clause and Klefki can spam Swagger with priority and then Foul Play all it wants. Between Thunder Wave and Confusion, the opposing Pokemon only has 37.5% chance to attack and can be easily dealt with. However, Klefki is rather weak to Ground-types and hax reliant. It also lacks offensive pressure.Overall, this mon is an incredibly annoying mon to play against, ultimately relies on luck and even has full teams of 6 built around it because of how cool it is.

SET
name: SwagPlay
move 1: Swagger
move 2: Foul Play
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Substitute
0 Atk IVs
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD

SET COMMENTS
Moves
========
Swagger is the most important move for Klefki, as it allows maximum possible hax through confusion. Foul Play is used to abuse Swagger, and hit opponents very hard after you boost them. Thunder Wave is to slow down faster foes, and for the full paras. Substitute is used to hide behind as you wait for them to hit themselves in confusion or get full para’d.

Set Details
========
Leftovers are used to give Klefki some form of recovery. You can either opt for a fully physical defensive EV spread or a mixed defense spread, depending on what your team is weak to. If your team is weak to Arceus then fully defensive is better, but otherwise mixed is the way to go. Bold nature for the defense boost, and with 0 Atk IVs makes for the least Atk possible. This is useful for beating out opposing Klefkis in 1v1s.

Usage Tips
========
Either go for Thunder Wave or Swagger first, then use the other one. Generally against physical attackers Thunder Wave is a better choice first because otherwise they get a big power boost and if they do hit you or have a lum berry, you're in trouble. Then once the hax are set up, start spamming Substitute. Usually the opponents will hit themselves in confusion or get full para’d within a turn or two. At that point going for Foul Play and dealing major damage for the KO while remaining safely behind Substitute is the best course of action. There isn’t much deviation in strategy because of how linear Klefki is. That said, if you’re against an Arceus (normal) or Rayquaza-Mega, do not click Swagger first because they will often run Lum Berry and them getting the free attack boost is not ideal. Instead go for Thunder Wave, because Klefki lives an unboosted Earthquake most of the time.

Team Options
========
Special Rayquaza-Mega is an excellent team option for Klefki, because it deals with all of it’s biggest counters (Sableye-Mega, Diancie-Mega and Primal Groudon) as well a lot of other things. Darkrai is a very good teammate as well, because it can also remove some Lum Berries and make Klefki do it’s job a lot better. Arceus-Ground is an especially good teammate as it deals with all of Klefkis major counters, while also having good presense both offensively and defensively in other matchups. Primal Kyogre is also a good team option, since it reliably deals with most of Klefkis checks/counters.

STRATEGY COMMENTS
Other Options
=============
Klefki doesn’t have a lot of options when it comes to what to run. Double Team can replace Foul Play if you want to rely more on hax. It is able to run a dual screens utility set for team support, but lack of recovery really hurts it. Magnet rise is an option on it’s sets to give an immunity to it’s most common weakness, Ground-types. Other than that, Klefki has no other real options.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Ground Types**: Immune to Thunder Wave and have STAB that can generally OHKO Klefki, they are very annoying to take down. The 2 main Ground-types to worry about are Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground
**Magic Bounce**: Removes your ability to hax, which isn’t good. Mega Diancie can be lured with Flash Cannon but both it and Mega Sableye counter Klefki.
**Taunt**: Anything with Taunt can stop Klefki in it’s tracks, as it’s often rendered useless.
**Lum Berry**: Lum Berry Ho-oh, Mega Rayquaza and Arceus-Normal are all very common in Anything Goes specifically to check Klefki and Darkrai. You’ll have to play around them carefully.
**Numel**: While not a real threat in AG, it does completely wall Klefki due to being immune to all forms of hax. Therefore, on 6 Klefki teams running HP Water on one of the Klefkis is a necessity in order to not auto-lose.


fuck yo couch, i got swag keys
 
Last edited:

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level


OVERVIEW
Klefki is one of the most meta defining mons in Anything Goes. It’s actually so meta defining it got a famous nickname, “SwagKeys” with the common “SwagPlay” strategy. This is because in AG, there is no Swagger clause and Klefki can spam Swagger with priority and then Foul Play all it wants. Overall, this mon is an incredibly annoying mon to play against, ultimately relies on luck and even has full teams of 6 built around it because of how cool it is.

SET
name: SwagPlay
move 1: Swagger
move 2: Foul Play
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Substitute
0 Atk IVs
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD

SET COMMENTS
Moves
========
Swagger is the most important move for Klefki, as it allows maximum possible hax through confusion. Foul Play is used to abuse Swagger, and hit opponents very hard after you boost them. Thunder Wave is to slow down faster foes, and for the full paras. Substitute is used to hide behind as you wait for them to hit themselves in confusion or get full para’d.

Set Details
========
Leftovers are used to give Klefki some form of recovery. You can either opt for a fully physical defensive EV spread or a mixed defense spread, depending on what your team is weak to. If your team is weak to Arceus then fully defensive is better, but otherwise mixed is the way to go. Bold nature for the defense boost, and with 0 Atk IVs makes for the least Atk possible. This is useful for beating out opposing Klefkis in 1v1s.

Usage Tips
========
Either go for Thunder Wave or Swagger first, then switch. Then once the hax are set up, start spamming Substitute. Usually the opponents will hit themselves in confusion or get full para’d within a turn or two. At that point going for Foul Play and netting the KO while remaining safely behind Substitute is the best course of action. There isn’t much deviation in strategy because of how linear Klefki is. That said, if you’re against an Arceus (normal) or Rayquaza-Mega, do not click Swagger first because they will often run Lum Berry and them getting the free attack boost is not ideal. Instead go for Thunder Wave, because Klefki lives an unboosted Earthquake most of the time.

Team Options
========
Special Rayquaza-Mega is an excellent team option for Klefki, because it deals with all of it’s biggest counters (Sableye-Mega, Diancie-Mega and Primal Groudon) as well a lot of other things. Darkrai is a very good teammate as well, because it can also remove some Lum Berries and make Klefki do it’s job a lot better.

STRATEGY COMMENTS
Other Options
=============
Klefki doesn’t have a lot of options when it comes to what to run. It is able to run a dual screens utility set for team support, but lack of recovery really hurts it. Magnet rise is an option on it’s sets to give an immunity to it’s most common weakness, Ground-types. Other than that, Klefki has no other real options.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Ground Types**: Immune to Thunder Wave and have STAB that can generally OHKO Klefki, they are very annoying to take down. The 2 main Ground-types to worry about are Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground
**Magic Bounce**: Removes your ability to hax, which isn’t good. Mega Diancie can be lured with Flash Cannon but both it and Mega Sableye counter Klefki.
**Taunt**: Anything with Taunt can stop Klefki in it’s tracks, as it’s often rendered useless.
**Lum Berry**: Lum Berry Ho-oh, Mega Rayquaza and Arceus-Normal are all very common in Anything Goes specifically to check Klefki and Darkrai. You’ll have to play around them carefully.


fuck yo couch, i got swag keys
Hi
  • The overview seems to be implying that SwagKeys is amazing and you should run six of them on your team. It doesn't mention any negatives D: Say something about how it is overprepared for and all good teams have multiple checks to it.
  • Set/Moves/Set Details are all good
  • In Usage Tips, you say "then switch" when talking about what to use in your first two turns out. Switch means switch out--change this to something like "then use the other move". I'd also add the probability to prevent the opponent from moving here, although you could do it another section (not exactly sure the most appropriate place, but here seems OK) as this should be mentioned somewhere. Foul Play also doesn't always "net the KO" so rephrase that to "do a lot of damage to most Pokemon"
  • In Team Options, add a couple mons that Klefki helps. What can Klefki remove to ease another mon's sweep? Also mention Arceus Ground, cuz it can eliminate opposing PDon, Mega Diancie, Ho-oh, and Klefki. Same with Primal Kyogre, it can dispatch of Arc Ground (sometimes), PDon, Mega Diancie, Ho-Oh, and Mega Sableye.
  • In OO, add Double Team to help hax by checks, Steel STAB for Mega Diancie, and Spikes cuz Prankster hazards are cool. Sadly, you really ought to mention that if running 6 SwagKeys one of them must have HP Water for the nubz that use Numel. I know it's terribad, you know it's terribad, but sadly it exists.
  • Checks/Counters looks good, unless you want to add Zang's Slowbro set. Casually mention Numel in Ground types, but say it's really really rare and really really bad and gimmicky and niche

Overall a good, simple analysis, for a haxy, cancerous, rage-inducing, easy-to-use Pokemon n_n Bonus marks for not mentioning Numel, even though sadly, to inform the public properly, we must :(
 
OVERVIEW
Type: Normal
Ability: Multitype
Known to many as the ‘God of Pokemon’, Arceus certainly has a lot to live up to. However, it easily fulfils these expectations. In the Anything Goes metagame, Arceus is feared as one of the metagame’s best late-game cleaners and also a powerful revenge killer thanks to its access to a great STAB move in the form of +2 priority Extreme Speed. Arceus also has an exceptional array of coverage moves, allowing it to muscle through many potential checks and counters.

While Arceus’s famed Extreme Killer set is widely feared, Arceus’s huge suppotmovepool and great bulk allow it to run a decent Support set. Despite seeing huge competition in the form of other Arceus forms with better typing, Arceus has only one uncommon weakness and can hold Leftovers. Running the Support set also has very little opportunity cost, as the lack of Species Clause allows you to run both Extreme Killer and Support on the same team.

However, while Arceus is an excellent Pokemon, it isn’t perfect. Arceus’s average base 120 Attack and the low base power of its main STAB render it incapable of breaking past bulkier Pokemon. While its Normal typing means Arceus only has one rare weakness, it also has no resistances, meaning it is unable to offer much defensive synergy to a team. However, despite these setbacks, Arceus is an extremely dangerous and influential Pokemon that can utterly decimate unprepared teams, or stop powerful threats in their tracks.

SET
name: Extreme Killer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Extreme Speed
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Lum Berry / Life Orb
ability: Multitype
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

SET COMMENTS
Moves
========
Swords Dance allows Arceus to quickly double its Attack, boosting the power of all its physical moves. Extreme Speed is Arceus’s most important move. While it only has 80 base power, it receives STAB and has +2 priority, allowing Arceus to sweep teams after a Swords Dance boost and also pick off opposing weakened Pokemon. Earthquake is almost compulsory coverage - it does massive damage to the prominent Primal Groudon, as well as hitting Rock and Steel types that resist Extreme Speed. There are many options for the last move slot, but the most prominent option is Stone Edge, which can heavily damage and OHKO bulky Yveltal and Ho-Oh, respectively. Other options include Refresh, which heals Arceus of status without having to use a Lum Berry; Shadow Claw, which hits Ghost-types; and Shadow Force, for a stronger hit on Ghost-types which is unfortunately easier to play around. Carrying a support move like Defog in the last slot also allows Extreme Killer Arceus to provide more support for its team, making it more helpful mid-game.

Set Details
========
A Lum Berry is the preferred item, as it allows Arceus to absorb status like Darkrai’s Dark Void once. These moves tend to be very common in Anything Goes. However, should you find you are lacking in power, carrying a Life Orb is also an option, as it allows Arceus to knock out Pokemon it previously could not, like bulky Yveltal with a +2 Stone Edge. However, Lum Berry is preferred overall for longevity and reliability. The nature and EVs are dictated by what Arceus needs to outspeed. To outspeed positive base 90s, 124 Speed EVs and an Adamant nature is enough. To outspeed other threats, a Jolly nature must be used. 160 Speed EVs outspeeds Terrakion; 176 Spe EVs will outspeed the host of positive base 110s such as Mega Diancie; and 252 Speed EVs guarantees a speed tie against other Arceus. Once Speed has been invested, maximise Attack for the greatest possible sweeping and revenge killing potential, then invest the rest into HP to increase Arceus’s overall bulk.

Usage Tips
========
While it may seem tempting to save Arceus for a late game sweep, a STAB Extreme Speed carries incredible utility in revenge killing many opposing Pokemon. If you carry Defog, use the threat of Extreme Speed to find opportunities to use them. Similarly, if Smeargle has started to set up, do not hesitate to use Perish Song.
Never, NEVER, overestimate the power of Extreme Speed and don’t be reluctant to calculate the damage, as if it does not knock out the opposing Pokemon, there’s a good chance you just unnecessarily lost Arceus.
Make sure that Arceus’s checks and counters have been knocked out or heavily worn down before attempting to set up Swords Dance and sweep. Also, don’t reveal your coverage moves too quickly, as it dictates what Pokemon on the opposing team wall Arceus. Don’t set up on heavy hitters like the Primal forms and Mega Rayquaza, but instead on Pokemon that cannot hit Arceus hard or will simply try to status it, using up its Lum Berry.

Team Options
========
Primal Groudon is an excellent partner for Extreme Killer Arceus. It absorbs Will-O-Wisp and Scald, and sets up Stealth Rock to weaken Arceus’s checks and counters. It can also throw out Lava Plume and Toxic to weaken the opposing team. Arceus may need help breaking through Lugia and Ghost-types, making offensive Dark-types like Darkrai and Yveltal good options, as well as offensive Ghost-types like Arceus-Ghost and Mega Gengar. Xerneas appreciates opposing Giratina forms and Yveltal coming out, and can set up Geomancy on them, ending the game. Although Healing Wish users are a little more niche, they are incredibly helpful to give Arceus a second chance to take down the opposing team. Carrying multiple Extreme Killer Arceus on your team with a variety of coverage moves is also helpful, as they can break down each other’s checks and counters in preparation for one to sweep.

SET
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Reflect?
move 3: Defog / Stealth Rock
move 4: Roar / Perish Song
item: Leftovers
ability: Multitype
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

SET COMMENTS
Moves
========
Recover is an essential move on this set, as it instantly restores 50% of Arceus’s health, giving it longevity and allowing it to stop opposing Pokemon repeatedly. Will-O-Wisp is needed in the next slot, as it cripples most physical attackers. Reflect is another option against Fire-types such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh. It also provides support to Arceus’s teammates. However, it is not permanent. The third slot is dedicated to hazard control. Arceus makes for a durable and reliable Defog user, which is incredibly important if you carry Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. Stealth Rock is another excellent option, and also benefits from the switches Arceus forces thanks to the threat of a potential Extreme Speed. The final slot is meant to shut down sweepers and Baton Pass chains. Roar is a good choice that takes just one turn to force out an attacker, and also racks up hazard damage, wearing down the opposing team. Unfortunately, Roar is completely useless if the opposing Pokemon is the last non-fainted Pokemon on their team. Roar also fails in the face of Ingrain Smeargle and Xerneas. Perish Song is another option that completely shuts down Baton Pass chains. Also, if the opposing Pokemon is the last non-fainted one, Perish Song puts it on a timer of three turns, which can be helpful in clutch end-game situations. However, it takes longer to force out a setup sweeper with Perish Song than with Roar. Don’t agree with this statement as sometimes they just switch out regardless. Other choices include Toxic, which is able to rack up residual damage faster than Will-O-Wisp; and Iron Defense, which allows Arceus to outlast almost any physical attacker. Carrying a single attack such as Ice Beam, Judgment or Return is also an option, as it prevents Arceus from being total Taunt bait and allows it to take down Pokemon such as E-Killer faster. A somewhat gimmicky but occasionally helpful option is Magic Coat, which reflects status moves like Stealth Rock, Dark Void and Toxic.

Set Details
========
Leftovers is the main item choice, as Arceus appreciates all the recovery it can get, enabling it to take less damage by the end of the turn. Leftovers is also exclusive to Support Arceus, as the other Arceus forms must hold Plates, meaning that the ability to hold Leftovers is one unique to Arceus and is one of its main advantages over other formes. The Speed EVs allow Arceus to outspeed neutral-natured max invested base 90 Speed Pokemon, the most prominent of which are Adamant Groudon and Modest Kyogre. Maximum investment is placed into HP for overall bulk, while the remaining EVs go into Defense to take physical hits better along with a Bold nature. If you would prefer Arceus to take special hits better, you can move the Defense EVs into Special Defense while changing the Bold nature to a Calm nature. You can also run other amounts of Speed investment, such as 96 Speed EVs to outspeed max invested neutral-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon; 124 Speed EVs to outspeed max invested positive-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon; and 212 Speed EVs to outspeed max invested positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon. However, be aware that heavily investing in Speed will take away your bulk drastically.

Usage Tips
========
Arceus has excellent overall bulk, but that doesn’t mean it should be recklessly switched into powerful attacks. Make sure that you come in against physical attackers safely, so you can successfully fire off a Will-O-Wisp. If a Baton Pass chain begins or an opposing sweeper starts to set up, do not hesitate to use Roar or Perish Song as soon as possible.
Often, when the opponent first sees Arceus, they will assume it is Extreme Killer, the most widespread set. Take advantage of this, and use Defog and Stealth Rock on predicted switches. Support Arceus appreciates that few will Taunt when they think Arceus will use Extreme Speed. However, when you reveal yourself to be Support, avoid Taunters; and when you reveal yourself to not be holding a Lum Berry, avoid status users like Darkrai.

Team Options
========
Arceus is an excellent part of a defensive backbone for a team. However, it struggles against some common offensive threats, especially special ones. Darkrai can easily overwhelm Support Arceus thanks to its access to Dark Void and reasonably powerful attacks. As such, it is generally important to run a reliable Darkrai answer like Arceus-Fairy, or a Sleep Talk user like Ho-Oh or Choice Scarf Xerneas. If an opposing Geomancy Xerneas is carrying the extremely rare Ingrain, it can avoid being forced out by Roar and can set up in Arceus’s face. A Xerneas check like Ho-Oh is therefore helpful. Support Arceus is also 100% shut down by Taunt, the most common users of which are Mewtwo and Yveltal. Geomancy Xerneas can set up on both these Pokemon once it is given a free switch-in, while curing Toxic inflicted on Arceus with Aromatherapy, which is highly important as Support Arceus absolutely loathes being put on a timer. Defensive Xerneas can also offer this defensive synergy and Aromatherapy support.
STRATEGY COMMENTS
Other Options
=============
Extreme Killer Arceus is capable of running Choice Band. This allows Arceus to cripple its usual answers such as Lugia and also powers up Extreme Speed if Arceus needs to revenge kill something (however, bear in mind that Trick is still the main purpose of the set). However, Swords Dance still offers more sweeping potential and is also less reliant on prediction, as Choice Band often requires double switching to make sure Arceus's target comes in. Extreme Killer also has the potential to run Fire Blast and Overheat, which hit would-be counters such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory very hard. Another option is to run Perish Song, which gives Extreme Killer Arceus mid-game utility in shutting down Baton Pass chains as well as putting threatening sweepers on a timer. Due to Arceus's various other viable forms which can perform many roles better, it has little viable options left.

Checks and Counters
===================
Defensive Yveltal: Yveltal easily lives any attack apart from a boosted Life Orb Stone Edge. However, if Arceus is not carrying Stone Edge, its most powerful attack is Extreme Speed. This forces it to take Rocky Helmet damage, which allows Yveltal to knock it out with Foul Play at +2. Arceus is also unable to KO Yveltal with a non-Life Orb Stone Edge unless Stealth Rock is up on the opposing side.
Taunt users: While defensive Yveltal is extremely troublesome for Extreme Killer Arceus to deal with, offensive Yveltal is a massive threat to Support Arceus thanks to its access to Taunt, which totally and completely shuts it down. Mewtwo also often carries Taunt, allowing it to muscle past through Support Arceus easily with its powerful Psystrikes.
Ghost-types: Arceus-Ghost Speed ties with Jolly Arceus, and can cripple non-Lum Berry variants with Will-O-Wisp. It also survives a +2 Shadow Claw. Giratina-O is immune to Extreme Speed and Earthquake, and with defensive investment can live a +2 Shadow Claw, while Giratina has more raw bulk. They can both Will-O-Wisp or Dragon Tail to cripple or force out Arceus. Mega Gengar forces Arceus to stay in, and can outspeed it to either do massive damage with Focus Blast or Destiny Bond on Arceus’s Earthquake. Sableye isn’t very bulky, but has access to Prankster Will-O-Wisp as well as Foul Play.
Steel-types not weak to Earthquake: Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Scizor are either immune to or neutral to Earthquake, allowing them to easily take it at +2. Skarmory can easily phaze out Arceus with Whirlwind, removing its Swords Dance boosts, while taking little damage from any of Arceus’s attacks. Ferrothorn doesn’t easily take +2 Earthquakes, but can try to outstall Arceus with Leech Seed, Protect and Iron Barbs damage. Arceus can also set up Swords Dance on its Protects. Mega Scizor takes +2 Earthquake relatively easily and can Superpower back for massive damage. However, all should be wary of Fire Blast or Overheat.
Lugia: If Multiscale is intact, Lugia can easily outstall Extreme Killer Arceus with a combination of Toxic and Roost. However, if Multiscale is broken, Arceus can do massive damage or even KO Lugia with Stone Edge. Lugia can also phase Arceus with Whirlwind.
Analysis bybaconbagon- September 7th, 2015

p.s. with some (competitive related) edits made my spin da pig


I made a little check to baconbagon's Arceus analysis, a bit of grammar and a bit of competitive changes. i changed this with baconbagon's permission, don't worry.
edit: im also working on a ag c&c compendium
 

Chloe

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NUPL Champion
Since thread is dead, I might as well revive it.

Nominating Arceus-Fairy from A to A+ as it supplies extensive utility and is considered as an equal to Xerneas by some people due to its recovery and useful movepool. Opinions?
 
Yes, Fairy-Arceus is pretty good and I think moving up it to A+ is fine. It is able to supply extensive utility having access to moves such as recover and refresh and can set-up via CM and Iron Defense and the types it is weak to can easily be countered by the filler move Earth Power (Some mons are exceptions such as Ho-oh).
Considering it an equal to Xerneas is a bit far-fetched as Xerneas has access to better support moves such as Ingrain and Aromatherapy (not to mention Geomancy) and in a one on one battle, Fairy-Arceus would easily lose even if it has reached 2x SpA and SpD (Xerneas has to be faster though) as Xerneas can Geo-up and given that Moonblast can reduce SpA, Fairy-Arceus can lose. Having said that Fairy-Arcues certainly has a niche being easily able to handle one of the most used set-up Sweepers, i.e., M-Ray and should be moved up imo.
 
There was some complains about my Numel's analysis, so I made this other version which is way more harsh when refering to Numel's (zero) usability. Joshz allowed me to post it.

OVERVIEW
Numel is a useless gimmick meant to counter Klefki, which can't do if Klefki carries the rare Hidden Power Water. Meanwhile, it's stats are just pathetic, it is still very passive and OHKOed or dented by everything. We know how much you hate Klefki, just don't even bother using Numel.

SET
name: (useless) Klefki counter
move 1: Lava Plume / Fire Blast
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Protect
item: Eviolite
ability: Own Tempo
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA

SET COMMENTS
Moves
========
Lava Plume is the main STAB attack and it's super-effective against Klefki, and packs a 30% burn rate that might discourage the opponent from switching a powerful physical attacker in. Fire Blast, however, it is a more powerful option, although the reduced burn rate makes it easier for the opponent to switch on it and start setting up or attacking. Will-O-Wisp burns the opponent. This reduces the damage Numel takes from physical attacks, which notably include Klefki's Foul Play, however, most Klefki run Substitute. Toxic is used to cripple and wear down bulky Pokémon or special sweepers in general if they're hit on the switch, because Numel can't do anything else to them anyway. Protect allows you to stall for more burn or poison damage. One can place the universal Stealth Rock on the last two moveslots and try to set it without Numel getting KOed (good luck with that, because you'll need it).

Set Details
========
The EVs, a Bold Nature and 0 Attack IVs minimize the damage Numel takes from Klefki's Foul Play. Own Tempo makes Numel immune to confusion, so Klefki can't resort to Swagger to break through it. 248 HP EVs also reduces Stealth Rock damage at no cost. The leftover EVs are placed in Special Attack so Numel can hit Klefki harder, as they won't be useful when placed in any other stat . Eviolite greatly increases Numel's bulk, again to take as many Foul Plays as possible. Passho Berry is an option if Hidden Power Water Klefki scares you, however the loss of bulk is very noticeable and Hidden Power Water Klefki is very rare.

Usage Tips
========
If you are really using Numel, you must bring it in without taking any damage at all. Any hit will dent Numel and it might not be able to take on Klefki at low health. The first thing you should always try to do when Numel is facing Klefki is to burn it, reducing its damage output and overall usefulness, however, Klefki has Prankster Substitute on its side, so if the foe is aware of this strategy you should go with Lava Plume. Despite having multiple options to cripple whatever the foe sends in, Lum Berry is extremely common in the metagame, so most of the time the wisest option is to double switch. Don't be predictable when using Protect, as the opponent might set-up or send something in for free while you waste a turn. In fact, don't try to do anything with Numel aside from countering Klefki, it just won't work, and after Klefki is KOed, sack Numel.

Team Options
========
Your best bet is to choose a better Pokémon and build a team around it, but if you stick with Numel for some reason, take in account that it can't take hits at all, so a wall that can sponge hits for it it's recommended. Giratina-O has excellent synergy with Numel, as it resists Water and it's immune to Ground thanks to Levitate, so it's a great partner for it. Lugia is also a good option, while it does not resist Water, it is still immune to Ground and has reliable recovery. Both can provide Defog support as well.
A status absorber can take the status that Numel hates. Refresh Silk Scarf Arceus is great at this and can beat Darkrai easily. Zekrom can't absorb status unless it is running Sleep Talk, but can force out Lugia, which would wall Arceus forever. However, it shares a Ground weakness with Numel.
A way to bring Numel in safely is almost compulsory. Baton Pass, U-turn or Volt Switch are all safe ways to do so. Smeargle is a great Baton Pass user for Baton Pass teams, and can pass Numel Moody boosts, although Numel won't take advantage of them. VoltTurn partners include Zekrom again and Landorus-I, but they stack a Ground and a Water weakness respectively.
Sweepers that appreciate Klefki gone are obvious partners, any Swords Dance Arceus forme or Mega Rayquaza are some examples, especially if they lack Lum Berry or a way to hit Klefki for super-effective damage.

STRATEGY COMMENTS
Other Options
=============

Don't try to experiment with Numel, while it has many gimmicky options, it is just a bad mon countering a single Pokémon. Thus, any other option is usually not worth it.
Incinerate is a gimmicky option that can burn the opponent's Lum Berry on the switch while dealing a bit of damage, but Will-O-Wisp or Toxic are superior options most of the time as they also consume the opponent's Lum Berry while statusing the switch-ins not holding one. Stockpile + Eviolite might allow Numel to take some hits, but the only thing Numel can really do is countering Klefki so it is not worth it. Yawn can force switches. Mud Slap can be used to annoy switch-ins, while Sleep Talk might score you a surprise burn or toxic poison on Darkrai. Both options are unreliable though. Numel has access to Charm and Scary Face too to cripple whatever the opponent might switch in, but Toxic it's a better option overall.


Checks and Counters
===================
**Hidden Power Water Klefki**: While it is rare, some Klefki run Hidden Power Water to nail Numel. Numel is especially weak to it if it's not holding a Passho Berry.
**Fully Evolved Pokémon**: Anything with a Lum Berry, not weak to status, faster than Numel or that can OHKO it is able to counter Numel. In fact, if it's fully evolved and it's not Klefki, it counters Numel.

So, which one is the best? Or how can we merge the two analyses in one?

Also Zangooser the analyses should be added to the OP imo.
 

MZ

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Giving numel an AG analysis is like giving dedenne an ou analysis lol

I'd rather not see arc fairy in A+ just because of the overlap with the S rank deserving xerneas. Arceus is faster and has wisp sr and defog, but as soon as you go CM or something you need to really start wondering why you aren't using xern. It's very good as a bulky utility mon, but xern is a more effective sweeper which can also run a variety of different moves on offensive sets and other sets like def, spdef and scarf. I'm opposed to the rise because it's a bit overshadowed and not as splashable as things like Lugia and darkrai with multiple other options and clearly defined niches. Will also be posting more rank stuff later !_!
 

Josh

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Giving numel an AG analysis is like giving dedenne an ou analysis lol
numel has a niche in AG, dedenne doesnt in OU. thats the difference. numel does something noone does better; it flat out walls an S mon.

is it terrible? yes
do we have it ranked? no, because we know its terrible
the point of having an analysis? because it performs VERY different in AG than any other tier, and we need to inform new players why people will always talk about numel in shit.
is klefki swaggy? YES
 

MZ

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numel has a niche in AG
is it terrible? yes
do we have it ranked? no, because we know its terrible
make up your mind, these are different things @_@
the point of having an analysis? because it performs VERY different in AG than any other tier
No, it doesnt play at all in any tier higher than LC. that's the point
we need to inform new players why people will always talk about numel in shit.
Why not just not mention numel or put it under VR in bold saying DONT USE THIS? It's exactly like dedenne, they're both unviable and neither should have an analysis as a result of that. Anyway, I've been tacking these onto larger posts because putting a full post as to why it doesnt deserve an analysis wastes space, it's still getting one because of that, uh, logic? almost?

After writing this, I decided to say up front that I don't expect this to go through at all, this is more of a meta discussion post than a rank change because I cant see people agreeing. That being said, I still wanna share my thoughts about AG and think that Swagplay sucks and klefki is overrated. Klefki runs swag play. Swagplay is fucking dumb. Swagplay is also very dull and still relies on luck from Klefki's side and is far easier to check than even things like BP. I said the same thing about smeargle earlier, it's scary but any well built team has counter play because of that and both smeargle and klefki have a very hard time adapting because of this. Can Klefki do other stuff? Sure, but spikes on its own wouldnt be S rank. Is swag play annoying? Yeah, but it's capable of backfiring fairly easily and checked by just about anything you want. Lum berry is a widely used item because of this, EQ gets run on everything, Magic Bounce users (well really just Msab and Mdiancie but still) are very good, and they all mean that klefki needs a lot behind it to work efficiently. I've been playing AG for a while, competitively and contributing a little more recently, but I still have yet to keep a klefki on my team for an extended amount of time all but once because standard swag play provides very little overall utility. Klefki is good, like in regular ubers, because it checks darkrai, xern, lugia, etc and can paralyze threats for you but finds itself with relatively little switch-in opportunities and cant even beat things like sub or aroma geoxern without haxing it first.

I suppose my overall issue with this is that I've never likes swag play as a playstyle in general, it leaves you too open from their arceus breaking through, earthquaking keys, and eventually winning because you needed the mon. It's good as a check, not for swagplay, but in that capacity it doesnt deserve to be so high. In fact, my favorite set for keys right now involves Twave/Play Rough/two of Foul play, toxic, magnet rise, spikes, or swagger. Use Klefki's ability to check things and maybe lure a don in to toxic and free up your scarf ogre late game. Maybe run swagger if you'd like to cheese people out of a victory but not every time. Sub/swagger/double team/filler is ass. Klefki has good typing and movepool and ability, stop wasting it on unreliable strats. While people switch the hell around Klefki, why not just set a spike or two and stop hoping they smack themselves.

This really went all over the place but yeah, keys is an overrated piece of shit and lol numel. I hope this was enough unpopular controversy to make you all hope I never post here again n_n
 
Giving numel an AG analysis is like giving dedenne an ou analysis lol

I'd rather not see arc fairy in A+ just because of the overlap with the S rank deserving xerneas. Arceus is faster and has wisp sr and defog, but as soon as you go CM or something you need to really start wondering why you aren't using xern. It's very good as a bulky utility mon, but xern is a more effective sweeper which can also run a variety of different moves on offensive sets and other sets like def, spdef and scarf. I'm opposed to the rise because it's a bit overshadowed and not as splashable as things like Lugia and darkrai with multiple other options and clearly defined niches. Will also be posting more rank stuff later !_!
Yes Xerneas is very good, but Fairy-Arceus is good as well. The problem with using Xerneas is that once it has been Roar-ed out after setting up, it doesn't get one more chance to set-up. Also, Darkrai is somewhat scared to switch into this (Fairyceus) thing, as if DV misses it GO for Darkrai (not that it'll always be possible, still) and with Refresh it can handle Lugia relatively well and can act as a status absorber. All in all, Fairy-Arcues is very good although not as good as Xerneas due to the various ways in which Xerneas can be used, but it definitely deserves A+
 
More importantly, Arceus-Fairy hard counters Extremekiller and checks Mega Rayquaza. It's not as immediately threatening as Xerneas, but it doubles as a wall and a solid win condition.
 
It doesnt hard counter Ekiller because you don't switch into lum and scarf xern/def xern can check megaray
I run 208 HP / 236 Def / 48 SpA / 16 Spe Bold; the speed lets it outspeed max neutral base 90s, the SpA EVs guarantee KOing MegaRay after 1 round of LO and the rest maximizes its physical bulk. This is what Lum does when you switch in on SD:

+2 252 Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 208 HP / 236+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 159-187 (36.7 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

WoW misses can screw you over, but even then Extremekiller needs to get both rolls high:

+4 252 Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 208 HP / 236+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 237-280 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

MZ

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I know it checks megaray, the point was xern can too

As for beating Ekiller, you lose to refresh (cool underrated set btw), you lose if they let themselves get burned in exchange for taking you out, you lose with the slightest bit of chip damage which isn't surprising, and you lose to adamant. But yeah the point was that lum can get a KO in exchange for the burn and if you try to recover on the Espeed after burning their lum then you risk them predicting you and SDing again. idk I just wouldnt call arc fairy a counter
 
I know it checks megaray, the point was xern can too

As for beating Ekiller, you lose to refresh (cool underrated set btw), you lose if they let themselves get burned in exchange for taking you out, you lose with the slightest bit of chip damage which isn't surprising, and you lose to adamant. But yeah the point was that lum can get a KO in exchange for the burn and if you try to recover on the Espeed after burning their lum then you risk them predicting you and SDing again. idk I just wouldnt call arc fairy a counter
The thing is, we know Xerneas > Fairy-Arceus, but Fairy-Arceus has a lot of good traits as well, you can't just neglect them. It is able to handle quite few mons that generally teams have difficulty in handling in. If Modest and having 0 Attack IVs, it can also soft check Klefki and burn it with WoW.
 

Chloe

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NUPL Champion
Code:
Arceus Fairy (A --> A+)
Aerodactyl-Mega (C --> Unranked)
Aerodactyl (Unranked --> D)
Aerodactyl was a waste of a mega slot as we discussed before, as did many other people on Showdown. Fast SR and Taunt is useful, but is really not that great in the majority of situations. Its resistances allow it to stay at D, but some more discussion may be needed for increases/decreases.

Some things that can be considered for the viability rankings:
  • Removing of many pokemon, since there are way too many on the rankings.
  • Alternatively continuing on after D, rather than having so many pokemon at B, that so many people wouldn't dream of using. Certain niche mons that offer decent utility could be listed here. Possibly spreading out the mons in current ranks to encompass a more diverse range of ranks.
  • Or stay the same, there's always that I guess.
Some things for the threatlist and analyses:
  • Will spread over two posts because word limit has been reached.
  • The recent analyses haven't been added for that reason, and I've been very busy.
  • They will be added in the coming days, provided they fit the standards.
Also, the Speed Tiers are going to be heavily increased and reformatted in a few days, so stay tuned for that I guess.
 
Alright, I've been playing lots recently and I have a ton of nominations that I feel will clear up the AG viability rankings.
Articuno C+ to C-
Articuno has really great potential, but anyone who sees Articuno knows exactly what it does and it is therefore quickly KO'ed. Two turns for a KO is, in Articuno's case, largely unviable.

Landorus-Therian C+ to unranked
Landorus-Therian has its uses, but there is quite simply no way it outranks Landorus-I, and thus no logical reason to use it over Lando-I, thus it shouldn't be ranked.

Mawile-Mega C to unranked
Mawile-Mega has its uses, but this is no justification to the massive harm it does to any team by taking up space and a Mega slot. Just that it isn't ever seen on any high-ladder team is proof enough that it is unviable.

Excadrill C+ to unranked
Excadrill requires a large amount of support to set up before it can really successfully be used in any role, and even once Sandstorm is set up Excadrill can be easily taken down by another weather effect or by simply playing around it's crippling Choice Band.

Terrakion B- to C
Terrakion addresses what appears to be a single threat, and does it well. However, it's crippling Scarf allows it to be played around and forced out and the fact that it largely doesn't apply to too much of the meta merits it a C ranking.

Palkia B- to C
Palkia 4x resists any Water move, but there is where its usefulness ends. Every good quality it holds can be better addressed by another Pokemon, therefore Water resistance is the only true niche that it holds.

Zekrom B- to B+
Zekrom possesses enough revenge killing potential to be considered for a higher rank. it can severely damage most high-tier threats and, with a Choice Scarf, outspeeds any opponent that isn't scarfed, allowing it even more versatility.
 
Response
Articuno C+ to C-
Yeah as the person who wrote the AG analysis for articuno I feel like it isn't usefull enough to stay on teams. Its a niche mon like numel but much better. It applies alot of pressure but It can be countered by endless switching. Its a nice thing to force switching but other than that its pretty bad. Note that mind reader doesnt carry on after bp


Landorus-Therian C+ to unranked
no reason to use this that I can see. Its just outclassed


Mawile-Mega C to unranked
Yea megamawile is very dissapointing in this meta as it doesn't apply as much pressure and is a waste of a mega. Not only that but it is put out of commission by a single burn because it has no way to cure its status meaning that in very many situations mawile because a dead weight.


Excadrill C+ to unranked
Yes it is very much hassle to get it up and running and playing around the choice band is fine but it is a really powerfull threat imo. Also iron head although being the weaker stab hits really hard has a flinch chance and can screw with alot of mons because it has fewer resists (kyogre,pdon arceus-steel) and hits the walls of the meta pretty hard (as they are immune to eq) D would be a nice place to put it because its a usable mon just requires a TON of support to pull its weight.


Terrakion B- to C
This is the only point I disagree on with you on. Its a great lead vs bp teams because it can take out smeargle with double kick as well as hitting a few leads like darkrai and Pdon for some damage. Other than that though it really doesn't do too well against the rest of the meta.


Palkia B- to C
I haven't used this pokemon but from what I can see he looks a bit underwhelming. Most of the time he can pull his weight and unlike many C rank mons he isn't complete dead weight in certain senario's.

Zekrom B- to B+
Zekrom is a huge force to be reckoned with. Although not one of the top tier threats its nice stabs and its attack stat are in huge favor for it. I've seen the scarf set do alot of work and it has a decent matchup against a few of the S-rank mons. (Life Orb set that Ive tried works decently imo. Going mainly physical with a little in spattack is nice as it helps grab some momentum)
 
Last edited:

thesecondbest

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Woah woah woah. Did you say lando-i outclasses cat form? Cat form checks arceus spam very well, as does terrak. Terrak also beats lugia and lando-t is way bulkier than lando-i and it can be a nice rocks and boom lead. Those two don't need to drop. But I agree with the rest.
 
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Josh

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Articuno C+ to C-
Articuno has really great potential, but anyone who sees Articuno knows exactly what it does and it is therefore quickly KO'ed. Two turns for a KO is, in Articuno's case, largely unviable.
I'm indifferent.

Landorus-Therian C+ to unranked
Landorus-Therian has its uses, but there is quite simply no way it outranks Landorus-I, and thus no logical reason to use it over Lando-I, thus it shouldn't be ranked.
Um... lol? Landorus-I and Landorus-T don't even do the same things... they don't even attack on the same side. One is special, one is physical. One is HO, one is often support. One has sheer force, one has intimidate. They don't even do the same roles. There are no better intimidaters in AG. I do not agree with this at all. It is fine in C+.

Mawile-Mega C to unranked
Mawile-Mega has its uses, but this is no justification to the massive harm it does to any team by taking up space and a Mega slot. Just that it isn't ever seen on any high-ladder team is proof enough that it is unviable.
I don't think it should be unranked. This thing is fucking powerful. It fits D.

Excadrill C+ to unranked
Excadrill requires a large amount of support to set up before it can really successfully be used in any role, and even once Sandstorm is set up Excadrill can be easily taken down by another weather effect or by simply playing around it's crippling Choice Band.
Um... Excas most viable item is band? That's news to me. I support unranking it, I've even told gooser that myself, but I disagree with the argument.

Terrakion B- to C
Terrakion addresses what appears to be a single threat, and does it well. However, it's crippling Scarf allows it to be played around and forced out and the fact that it largely doesn't apply to too much of the meta merits it a C ranking.
It should be D imo. C is not enough. It isn't even that viable, Gooser uses it as a meme.
Palkia B- to C
Palkia 4x resists any Water move, but there is where its usefulness ends. Every good quality it holds can be better addressed by another Pokemon, therefore Water resistance is the only true niche that it holds.
Countering Pogre is nice. Anyways, its fine where it is imo. Palkia might not be the best at anything, but it is great at role compressing. It is also a great AV user if that's what you need, or Twave spammer.

Zekrom B- to B+
Zekrom possesses enough revenge killing potential to be considered for a higher rank. it can severely damage most high-tier threats and, with a Choice Scarf, outspeeds any opponent that isn't scarfed, allowing it even more versatility.
Yeah this is underrated. I'd even say A-.
 
Uh, sorry everyone, I pretty much though Lando-T was less speed, more HP, I didn;t realise that it was completely different. This is why I need to be less autistic.

Zekrom should be in S, but people aren't open-minded to too much change all at once.
 

MZ

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I really don't have much opinion on most of those. Obviously lando is fine, but I mean sure the rest are k. Not much opinion. Driller might be alright for D rank though, it's very niche but sand is a threatening thing?

I'd like to call into question why Latios is a subrank higher than Latias. It has more power, Latias has more bulk. But the bulk should be much more useful than the power, right? Latias's bulk lets it check threats like the omnipresent Primal Groudon and Kyogre much better than Latios, and it's really solid too. If anybody has relevant calcs or games rather than just theorymon that'd be nice, but since I've been using Latias it's been really nice. I want to argue for a rank swap but does anybody have something relevant to support Latios?

Tyranitar C-C+
Why is this ranked with shit like Forretress? Pursuit trapper, great check to Arceus, megaray, Ho-oh, Lugia, Mewtwo, Gengar, Gira-O, etc. Shuca sets have a ton of nice utility, I don't see any reason it's that low.

That being said, the ranks really need to be figured out. If you look at anything below the B ranks, the stuff you want to use starts to get really shit. Random stuff like Whimsicott and Quagsire end up with nicer things like MegaLuke and Latias. I fully support the lower rank clean, off the top of my head we can lower or remove the aforementioned Whimiscott and Quagsire, as well as Arceus Electric (this thing is really lame after testing), Forretress (why...?), Liepard (keys say hi), Gliscor and Hippowdon (seriously when), Aron (lol), Deo-D (again why), Mamoswine (more gimmick! yay!), Aerodactyl (this was just ranked and I have literally no idea why when things like Deo-s exist), and xatu (lol)

Lower ranks should be things you conceivably use, those I see little to no reason to use a lot of those, at least Arc Fire, Tentacruel and Mega Meta have something where you can see why you'd use it. The original rankings are so stuffed because the meta was fresh and ranking everything was safe, but these could really be refined around now
 
I really don't have much opinion on most of those. Obviously lando is fine, but I mean sure the rest are k. Not much opinion. Driller might be alright for D rank though, it's very niche but sand is a threatening thing?

I'd like to call into question why Latios is a subrank higher than Latias. It has more power, Latias has more bulk. But the bulk should be much more useful than the power, right? Latias's bulk lets it check threats like the omnipresent Primal Groudon and Kyogre much better than Latios, and it's really solid too. If anybody has relevant calcs or games rather than just theorymon that'd be nice, but since I've been using Latias it's been really nice. I want to argue for a rank swap but does anybody have something relevant to support Latios?

Tyranitar C-C+
Why is this ranked with shit like Forretress? Pursuit trapper, great check to Arceus, megaray, Ho-oh, Lugia, Mewtwo, Gengar, Gira-O, etc. Shuca sets have a ton of nice utility, I don't see any reason it's that low.

That being said, the ranks really need to be figured out. If you look at anything below the B ranks, the stuff you want to use starts to get really shit. Random stuff like Whimsicott and Quagsire end up with nicer things like MegaLuke and Latias. I fully support the lower rank clean, off the top of my head we can lower or remove the aforementioned Whimiscott and Quagsire, as well as Arceus Electric (this thing is really lame after testing), Forretress (why...?), Liepard (keys say hi), Gliscor and Hippowdon (seriously when), Aron (lol), Deo-D (again why), Mamoswine (more gimmick! yay!), Aerodactyl (this was just ranked and I have literally no idea why when things like Deo-s exist), and xatu (lol)

Lower ranks should be things you conceivably use, those I see little to no reason to use a lot of those, at least Arc Fire, Tentacruel and Mega Meta have something where you can see why you'd use it. The original rankings are so stuffed because the meta was fresh and ranking everything was safe, but these could really be refined around now
I agree for the most-part, but Aron definitely needs to be kept in D rank, it represents an unviable strategy, but new players need to realize that it represents a significant low-ladder threat.
 

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