Anything Goes Viability Ranking

[AWILDBIBAREL]

I played about 300 games of AG this weekend, and I have some recommendations. Others feel free to dispute.

A- to B- or less
Roar.

A- to B-
With the amount of Xerneas and Diancie-Mega in the meta atm, why would anyone run an Arceus-Dark. Great for mewtwo, which is becoming less and less common. Even though these Mewtwo often carry fighting-type moves. I actually believe it would be more viable to run an Arceus-Bug than this.

B+ to C-
Most common situation: Set up rocks and then die.
Next most common: Taunt and then die.
I probably need to continue to make a decent argument. Why in Arceus's name would you waste a pokemon on just setting up rocks. Groudon can do such a thing. In fact, Pineco with Berry Juice would be a better option.

B to Unranked (or D)
Why would anyone use this? "Let's set up a sandstorm!", well I'm sorry to tell you kiddo but two of the top three pokemon in the meta don't care. When like much more than half the teams in the meta carry a rayquaza of some sort, it'd be stupid to run a weather team (most of the time). Then let's introduce one of the most common moves in the meta to this argument, EQ. Can someone actually provide a decent argument to back this up other than removing the majority of the enemy team in order to keep this alive for longer than a turn.

B to A-?
This might be a bit controversial, but I feel like we've established how helpful Ditto is in the last few days. It is the pinnacle of many high ladder AG teams. If you want arguments, look up the page.

C to B+/B
Arceus-Steel is a great support mon on many top teams. Its typing allows it to come in on a Xerneas (on a hard-switch) and decimate it's life with an Iron Head. On top of that, its typing allows it to come in on Rayquaza to absorb a hit, if say the Rayquaza was statused or LO set.

C to B/B-
When I mentioned this pokemon a few weeks ago, I had intended for the pokemon to gain a rank and wasn't completely focused on a rank for it. The more I use it however, the more I begin to see how well it can perform. Everything about it is great. Its ability, its attack stat, its movepool, e.t.c. I have a few replays to further my argument.

1. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-237655301 - Early Stone Edge Sweep
2. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-239478982 - Sharp Rocks
3. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-239725064 - Pass Me The Ironing Board
4. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-240392399 - Useful Double Kick
5. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-240472284 - Stone Edge High Crit-Ratio Hands Me The Game
6. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-240474334 - Another High Crit-Ratio Hands The Game

C to (something just move it up a tad maybe)
thelinearcurve, the current first place of the Anything Goes ladder has showcased how good this thing can be. It absorbs Xerneas's two most common moves (Moonblast and Focus Blast) and deals out decent attacks. This one I'm not completely sure about as its primary objective is just to counter one pokemon in the meta.

C- to D
Why would anyone use an Arceus-Psychic. "Beats Fighting and Poison you scrub!" Tell me what Poison and Fighting pokemon you encounter often. "MMX" And that's hit neutrally! "There are two Terrakion users in the meta" Ok, I'm going to stop there, hopefully you see my point. Having conversations with yourself is fun! Arceus-Psychic is not fun..

C- to Unranked
Do I need an argument, I'm pretty sure others have provided enough. I will for the sake of being fair to this volcano camel thingy. The only time this would be viable is when they have a full team of Klefki, and even then they'll often put HP water on one of them. If you want to keep Numel ranked (+appropriately ranked), make a new rank called G (because it's not even worthy of E and F). I've played 1400 games of AG, and only ever seen one Numel. That should tell you something.

I might make another post later, as it's getting late and I'm getting bored.

Ever thought that Roar was getting common because of Glalie?
Arceus-Bug is still beaten by almost every Mega Diancie (DIAMOND STORM) and can't do a lot of damage to Xerneas due to Fairy resisting Bug, which i think can actually beat Arceus-Bug by wearing it down with Moonblast or setting up on it if it lacks Toxic. While not as common, Ho-Oh destroys CM Bugceus too, and also wastes a moveslot (Stone Edge) on SD Bugceus. Bugceus is beaten by almost every S-A threat too. The aforementioned Fairies, Primal Groudon, E-Killer can 2HKO it after SD and also due to ExtremeSpeed's priority, can beat it, Darkrai outspeeds and sleeps (that's the case for every arceus except normal), Ray so obviously kills Bugceus too (can't hit it SE and CM sets with Ice Beam are unviable), all support Arceus make Bugceus useless through Will-O. Klefki also obviously beats it with a little luck, like every other physical attacker.
Don't even mention Support Bug Arceus as well. Bad typing and STAB is made worse by the common stuff in this tier. Every other common support forme is a better choice except the ones I'll mention later.
Put Numel in D-rank. From what I've seen in other metas, that's the joke or really niche rank. Numel just deserves that and no further. Usage=/=Viability anyway, but you're right.
This is the Uber Viability Ranking's D rank:

D Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that serve no viable purpose in the Ubers metagame, but are bound here by tiering restrictions. D Rank Pokemon are typically outclassed in many if not all areas, and should not be considered for use on any serious team.

• 
  Arceus-Bug
• 
  Arceus-Fire
• 
  Arceus-Psychic
• 
  Deoxys
• 
  Reshiram

Essentially, our D rank should look like this. Most of them are unchanged except Arceus-formes (no species clause) and Reshiram, who is indirectly debuffed by the ubiquity of Mega Ray, unless you're running Choice Scarf. The Arceus-formes still deserve D Rank despite species clause, because Arceus-Bug is rekt by almost every common mon, Arceus-Fire is outclassed, and Zangooser already mentioned why Arceus-Psychic sucks.
Arceus-Poison... I don't know a lot about how to use that, but I can provide calcs. Lets' say Arceus-Poison is switching in on Geomancy.
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Poison: 195-231 (44 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
84 SpA Toxic Plate Arceus-Poison Judgment vs. +2 104 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 168-198 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Note: Using the CM Arceus-Poison in my calc.
Well, Arceus-Poison forces Geoxern out, but if Xerneas stays in, Arceus-Poison will take heavy damage. Offensive variants are more easily dealt with, but it's not like they can't do a lot of damage to it.
By your same logic, AMOONGUSS should rise too. AV Amoonguss (Yes it's in the analysis) can survive any attack from Geoxern (+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 160-190 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) and reset it's boosts with Clear Smog. Should be at least at C- or C+.
Terra rise is OK too, but Stone Edge's crit ratio is really just to make up for bad accuracy. You'll miss more often than crit. Besides, I still think that's just hax. Mega Diancie is better than it outside of not taking up a Mega slot too.
On Steelceus: You actually mention Focus Blast as a common coverage option on Xerneas, but yet you say that Arceus-Steel can pick off Xerneas. Non-Geomancy, sure, but what about Geoxern? Speed boost from Geomancy remember? Finally, more often than not, support Arceus more often than not runs Judgment, not Iron Head. It's stronger towards foes that don't have Sp.Def boosts, and also means Steelceus won't be crippled by burns.
Calcs:
4 Atk Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Iron Head vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 246-290 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. +2 104 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 156-186 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Check Xerneas? Sure it can.... Only SD variants have a small chance of OHKOing Xern without setup. Offensive variants with Focus Blast or Close Combat do somewhere around 50%. Geomancy beats it even one-on-one if it doesn't miss Focus Blast.
Deo-S to B- at the most. That drop is way too drastic. Besides, C- is the rank that contains "not joke Pokemon but still bad".
I feel like you don't really understand what T-tar is for too. Despite the nerf to weather, T-tar still functions because it's a good Pokemon in the first place and doesn't really need Sandstorm. It serves as a check to Ho-oh, Lati@s, and Dark and Flying types. It's not meant to be a offensive Pokemon or something you build your team around, it's a check to things that trouble your team or whatever. Plus, it pairs nicely with Sand Rush Excadrill, who can actually GET PAST P-don or deal heavy damage to Primal Kyogre. (if both do not run a speed-increasing nature and max speed, which isn't that common)
Edit: Zangooser, admittedly 1/2 of Poisonceus run Poison Jab just for Xerneas, but I assume they can't OHKO like Steelceus earlier unless they tailor their EV spreads to do so.

 

[Chloe]

This is in response to Spin Da (Pig)'s comment, my reply thing was glitching out.

Ok, A lot of what I said was misinterpreted here. Not your fault, I didn't word a lot of what I was trying to say correctly. Other things I said were completely wrong, so I thank you for correcting me. Now onto the reply:

When I mentioned Arceus-Bug in relation to Arceus-Dark I had intended to make a point that Arceus-Dark is not good. I had at no point, tried to say that Arceus-Bug is good, otherwise I would've recommended a boost in rating. But yea, the way I put it, it sounded like I was saying that ArcBug was better (in fact I stated this, but as a joke).

Roar just makes moody or boosting stats an invalid strat in high ladder AG. From my experience, unless you're running a team based off baton passing and providing a way to counter every counter (e.g. espeon for roar, a steel type for clear smog, e.t.c.) you won't get anywhere. It's also the reason Ingrain Xerneas is appearing more and more often.

I don't know why Numel deserves to belong, I thought my argument for that was fairly valid. If we removed MegaBanette (counters Arceus) why does Numel get to stay. At least MegaBanette could do something if the enemy team didn't have the pokemon it was intended to counter.

With the Arceus-Poison calculation, you entered a special version whereas what I had intended was a Poison Jab set. If you were to use properly you'd have to send it in after a death or on a volt-turn-baton-parting whatever. I'm not sure if it'd kill but if not you'd be able to espeed the following round to finish it off.

Ok, rid of my sandstorm argument about TTar, and consider this instead. The top 5 Pokemon in the meta (usage and viability) kill it with ease. It's weak to nearly everything. I can see it being good for some Pokemon but IMO, it's too weak to function properly. But then I guess that comes down to what Terrakion is used for as well so I kind of dug myself into a hole here. At least Terra can OHKO 2/5 of them. You know what, just forget I said anything about TTar but maybe consider that, idk. If we're having TTar there move up Terra. Terra counters better stuff.

Also, I feel like some people should give amoong a go, I never thought about its use in AG.

If there's anything else, I'd be happy to clarify or attempt to sound like I know what I'm talking about.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

AV Amoonguss isn't very good outside of countering Xerneas, but again, same thing for Numel. Seems decent as a pivot or whatever, since it has access to Spore and decent-ish bulk complemented by Regenerator.
Arceus-Poison with Poison Jab seems like a decent idea since it has an actual REASON to use it, but other than that it isn't super common. nvm i'm a scrub poison arceus rise agree (not joking) Ok xern check, yeah, but beaten by common threats and faces a bit of competition, as always, from other arceus formes offensively and supportively.

 

[Funbot28]

Sorry haven't been active for quite a while, but im back with a couple of changes:

Arceus-Ghost: S to A+
Sableye-Mega: A to A+
Glalie & Glalie-Mega: A- to B-
Ditto: B to A-
Arceus-Dark: A- to B-
Terrakion : C to B-
Deoxys-Speed: B+ to C
Arceus-Steel: C to B
Arceus-Poison: C to C+
Tyranitar: B to C
Arceus-Psychic: C- to D
Numel: C- to Unranked

Further points of Discussion:

S to S+
Brought this up before, but still didn't reach a general consensus. Extremely splashable mon which can run variety of effective sets. Can deal with many of the top tier threats, and overall definitely one of the best mons in AG.

S- to A+
With prevalence of Mega-Diancie, Mega-Sableye and other faster threats and priority, has Darkria fallen in viability?

S- to A+
I have always questioned Klefki's ranking. It is seemed that every team has an answer to it one way or another, and cannot run the movepool to deal with all it's checks and counters. Still overall great mon.

A+ to A/A-
Although it has access to the great ability in Moody and it's outstanding movepool, people just consider it luck base and not that affective due to MB.

A- to B+/B
Due to the Latis, it's role as an offensive Deffoger can be considered outclassed by them.

B to B-
Outclassed by the variety of better mega pokes in the tier, especially Mega Ray.

C- to D
With Mega Gar rising in popularity, can Chansey be considered viable?

Happy Posting!

P.S If anyone would like to do an art cover for the title, it would be greatly appreciated. Just PM me :)

 

[Tsundere]

I believe Darkrai should stay in S-. I'll go through a few checks/counters:
Mega Diancie does counter it but I don't feel that makes it any less viable; Mega Diancie has always been a prevalent Pokemon in the metagame. Diancie also gets worn down fairly quickly with its lack of a good HP stat or recovery. Darkrai can outspeed it and KO it if it's worn down enough. Furthermore, Diancie cannot switch into Darkrai without being Mega evolved with the fear of being put to sleep. Arceus-normal is also able to check most variants of Darkrai, as most run Lum Berry, Magic Coat or both, but I doubt anyone would leave Darkrai in on Arceus anyway. It would likely set up Swords Dance, meaning non Sash Darkrai would be KO'd without doing more than removing Arceus' Lum Berry. Lum Berry MegaRay is a similar story. Klefki can deal with Darkrai that doesn't have a Substitute up already, especially if it carries Taunt. However, other than these Pokemon, I find that Darkrai can either stall out, set up on, or at the very least put to sleep many other Pokemon in the format. Mega Sableye doesn't always do a great job of dealing with Darkrai other than the inability to be put to sleep. Nasty Plot Darkrai can easily set up against it and Substitute sets can deal with any non Calm Mind Sableyes (although most I've seen run Calm Mind). Mega Sableye rarely runs much special defense, so most are 3HKO'd by unboosted Dark Pulses, meaning Sableye can use Recover to stall it out and begin to set up Calm Minds, but if it flinches or starts out with HP missing (including Stealth Rock damage) then it will be 2HKO'd. Life Orb Darkrai 2HKOs non special defense Sableye as well, as long as it somehow doesn't get a Calm Mind up. Granted, it's best not to leave Darkrai in against Sableye if it doesn't have Nasty Plot, as most of the time it will be able to set up Calm Minds and then you'd be unable to 2-3HKO it anymore.

Darkrai can stall out many Pokemon that it outspeeds just through Bad Dreams damage. The lack of Sleep Clause makes this incredibly easy. As long as you don't miss Dark Void, you can even stall out non-Scarf Xerneas or Arceus-fairy by using a Substitute set (I find the set Substitute, Dark Void, Dark Pulse, Taunt to be very effective at doing this). Substitute Darkrai can also kill both primals. Darkrai also has the possibility of setting up and either sweeping or just damaging some of your opponent's team heavily. At the very least it will be able to sleep a few Pokemon. I just don't see Darkrai dropping any time soon, considering how well it deals with many Pokemon.

 

[TheHungrySage]

I would like to recommend that Zekrom be promoted to B+, here's why.

Counters for Zekrom:
Groudon-Primal
Deoxys-A
Arceus-Ground

Not a very big list, is it? Of course, there are the various Dragons in the meta that can out-speed Zekrom, but with a scarf, Zekrom may easily deal with these. On the other hand, Zekrom itself counters some of the biggest threats in the entire meta.

Counters Zekrom provides:
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Kyogre-Primal
Kyogre

Now, I can hear what you're saying-this isn't a very big list, either. However, these are only the Pokemons that Zekrom can safely switch into and triumph against. The list of Pokemon that a scarfed Zekrom can 1 to 2HKO can be found below.

1-2HKO'ed by Zekrom
Xerneas
Rayquaza-Mega
Arceus-All formes but Ground and the bulkier Fairy-type sets
Mewtwo
Salamence-Mega

The above calculations are based around a scarfed Zekrom, Bolt Strike being used.
Due to the reasonably fragile nature of Zekrom, it is usually designed to be a fast revenge killer/sweeper, which does mean that it fares badly against the firmer walls in the metagame, but I believe that it holds it's niche well enough to merit a promotion.

 

[Trickster]

I would like to recommend that Zekrom be promoted to B+, here's why.

Counters for Zekrom:
Groudon-Primal
Deoxys-A
Arceus-Ground

Not a very big list, is it? Of course, there are the various Dragons in the meta that can out-speed Zekrom, but with a scarf, Zekrom may easily deal with these. On the other hand, Zekrom itself counters some of the biggest threats in the entire meta.

Counters Zekrom provides:
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Kyogre-Primal
Kyogre

Now, I can hear what you're saying-this isn't a very big list, either. However, these are only the Pokemons that Zekrom can safely switch into and triumph against. The list of Pokemon that a scarfed Zekrom can 1 to 2HKO can be found below.

1-2HKO'ed by Zekrom
Xerneas
Rayquaza-Mega
Arceus-All formes but Ground and the bulkier Fairy-type sets
Mewtwo
Salamence-Mega

The above calculations are based around a scarfed Zekrom, Bolt Strike being used.
Due to the reasonably fragile nature of Zekrom, it is usually designed to be a fast revenge killer/sweeper, which does mean that it fares badly against the firmer walls in the metagame, but I believe that it holds it's niche well enough to merit a promotion.

I feel like you don't know what a counter is. Counters must be able to switch into one of the Pokemon's moves and still be able to hypothetically beat it every time. Obviously things like Deoxys-A cannot switch into Zekrom at all. I highly disagree with Zekrom moving up to B+. It's worse in AG than it is in Ubers, and it holds a spot in B rank there. Having one niche of being able to be able to hit Lugia through Multiscale usually isn't enough to justify using it over nearly any of the other mainly used physical Pokemon in the tier, especially with a lack of species clause. I'd much rather use MegaRay, or an additional Arceus-normal or Groudon-P instead of Zekrom. Just look at the other Pokemon in B+: most of them have much bigger roles. It should stay in B-.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

I feel like you don't know what a counter is. Counters must be able to switch into one of the Pokemon's moves and still be able to hypothetically beat it every time. Obviously things like Deoxys-A cannot switch into Zekrom at all. I highly disagree with Zekrom moving up to B+. It's worse in AG than it is in Ubers, and it holds a spot in B rank there. Having one niche of being able to be able to hit Lugia through Multiscale usually isn't enough to justify using it over nearly any of the other mainly used physical Pokemon in the tier, especially with a lack of species clause. I'd much rather use MegaRay, or an additional Arceus-normal or Groudon-P instead of Zekrom. Just look at the other Pokemon in B+: most of them have much bigger roles. It should stay in B-.

yep. Also, you cannot really say Zekrom is a counter to Ho-oh because it might get burnt when switching into Sacred Fire. As for Kyogre-
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Zekrom in Heavy Rain: 210-248 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
also this is what you said "Arceus-All formes but Ground and the bulkier Fairy-type sets"
half the arceus in this meta are support arceus, i.e. max hp + will-o and maybe even def investment. Zekrom can probably 2hko them if they switchin, but then they can burn it if they come out on the same turn.

 

[Josh]

Explain how arceus-dragon is even ranked please. I know it's only c- viability, but it's literally obsolete.

 

[gvmgvm40]

I've been using Baton Pass for some time and I'd like to nominate Sylveon to C-. It's essentially a slower but specially bulkier Espeon without Magic Guard, but its main niche lies in being able to hit through Substitutes with Hyper Voice, which lets it beat opposing Smeargle Baton Pass teams. Fairy is also a very good typing and Sylveon can beat things like Darkrai and MegaRay which BP normally struggles with, requiring less boosts than Espeon does. I can see it on par with Chansey or Mega Mawile in terms of viability.

 

[TheHungrySage]

OK, I'm back with another reccomendation:

Xerneas for S-

Xerneas, at the very start of this meta was simply amazing, and still is to a degree. However, the meta has, and is, evolving. For a team to even be viable, it has to be able to deal with Xern, and well at that, because the amount of Geoxern leads htat used to exist was ridiculous. However, now it requires a very specific set of circumstances to use Geomancy, and even if Geomancy has been used, Xern isn't guaranteed victory.

 

[Trickster]

Xerneas is still amazing. It's actually fairly versatile beyond a standard PowerHerb/Geomancy set. I've tried out some interesting things such as Ingrain (to stop phasing and gain health), Block (to trap things and set up on it), Substitute, etc. It's also a good recipient of Baton Pass since it's fairy type, has the ability to set up Ingrain, and is very bulky. All that being said, I do want it to remain in S rank but I'm not adamant about it. I'm not sure whether it's actually better than Darkrai, for example, but I don't believe its viability has changed at all throughout the duration of the metagame. I don't see what new "specific circumstances" are needed to be able to set up Geomancy, either. If anything, it's able to adapt to the metagame with its diverse and odd movepool.

I do think Lugia should move up to S-. It's able to easily take hits from some of the best offensive Pokemon in the format (Arceus-Normal, Mega Ray, and the Primals), especially when Multiscale is still up. Its phasing capabilities are also extremely helpful against setup sweepers. It can spread status and even set up Calm Mind. Taunt is actually fairly uncommon, making it able to utilize its support movepool really well.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

i find it slightly weird that Ditto is so amazingly high. While it did receive a big buff, it's not enough to justify where it's sitting right now. Even if every team does run a set-up sweeper, Ditto can still be removed by letting it Transform into a pokemon without any sort of offensive capability (e.g. hazard stacker) or letting it transform into something your team has a check for. I think B- to B+ is more suitable.

 

[Chloe]

I do think Lugia should move up to S-. It's able to easily take hits from some of the best offensive Pokemon in the format (Arceus-Normal, Mega Ray, and the Primals), especially when Multiscale is still up. Its phasing capabilities are also extremely helpful against setup sweepers. It can spread status and even set up Calm Mind. Taunt is actually fairly uncommon, making it able to utilize its support movepool really well.

Keeping multiscale up can be hard with the amount of toxic/will-o/twave spam in the meta. A simple move can disable its main niche, and then it can be easily taken down by an Yveltal, EKiller Arc or even a MegaRay. Ingrain Xerneas walls non CM Lugia as long as it has set up a geo. (btw Ingrain is very common high ladder, block seems interesting though) I do think you are right in saying that it does take hits from the best offensive Pokemon in the format, but so does Solrock. Solrock is perfect for EKiller, MegaRay and Primal Groudon which are the big three in attacking force. And it also gets extra recovery when in on Groudon due to Morning Sun.

252 Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solrock: 54-64 (15.6 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solrock: 117-138 (34 - 40.1%) -- 36.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solrock: 120-142 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (maybe not as good)

I forgot to put +Def natures in there too, damn.

Actually you know what, I agree with your argument. I just really felt like talking about Solrock. Although I'm not completely sure due to some of the reasons I stated and alternative walls, I believe your points are valid.

i find it slightly weird that Ditto is so amazingly high. While it did receive a big buff, it's not enough to justify where it's sitting right now. Even if every team does run a set-up sweeper, Ditto can still be removed by letting it Transform into a pokemon without any sort of offensive capability (e.g. hazard stacker) or letting it transform into something your team has a check for. I think B- to B+ is more suitable.

Ditto at the rank it's at is fine in my honest opinion and we really don't need to start the Ditto argument again pls, let's just accept it and move on. I could come up with a few arguments off the top of my head, but I really think we're past that.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Keeping multiscale up can be hard with the amount of toxic/will-o/twave spam in the meta. A simple move can disable its main niche, and then it can be easily taken down by an Yveltal, EKiller Arc or even a MegaRay. Ingrain Xerneas walls non CM Lugia as long as it has set up a geo. (btw Ingrain is very common high ladder, block seems interesting though) I do think you are right in saying that it does take hits from the best offensive Pokemon in the format, but so does Solrock. Solrock is perfect for EKiller, MegaRay and Primal Groudon which are the big three in attacking force. And it also gets extra recovery when in on Groudon due to Morning Sun.

252 Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solrock: 54-64 (15.6 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solrock: 117-138 (34 - 40.1%) -- 36.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solrock: 120-142 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (maybe not as good)

I forgot to put +Def natures in there too, damn.

You also forgot to put P-don calcs. :P Besides, some Mega Rays carry Draco Meteor or something.

 

[Chloe]

You also forgot to put P-don calcs. :P Besides, some Mega Rays carry Draco Meteor or something.

The Red Orb doesn't show in the calc, but I guarantee I chose it. Yea, Draco would be a huge problem.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Chandelure and non-mega Scizor seem to be missing. Chandelure has Minimize alongside CM or Flame Charge to troll unprepared teams and can hit through Substitute with Infiltrator, while regular Scizor is usable and doesn't take up a mega slot. I can see both in C+ or C.

 

[Trickster]

Having Minimize doesn't automatically make something viable in this format. It's pretty easy to Roar/Whirlwind Chandelure out or honestly just straight up try to OHKO it with one of the many things that can do so. I'd consider Chandelure unvaible in AG. Scizor mostly just isn't good because there's other things you can use in its place that hit a lot harder with more bulk. There's no species clause so there's not really any reason to use it over one of the other main physical attackers of the meta. While most of the Pokemon in the C ranks are pretty bad in AG, most of them also at least have a niche, whereas both Chandelure and Scizor don't really do anything special at all in the format.

 

[Chloe]

Ok so far we've discussed these things since the last update:
- Darkrai - remain in S-
- Zekrom - remain in B-
- Xerneas - remain in S
- Lugia was suggested to move up to S-
- Chandelure and Scizor to remain unranked.

I honestly think most of us can agree on the placement of Dialga at the moment being completely wrong for the current state of the metagame. Dialga is not worthy of an A and I find it hard to believe that it was in any point in time during the history of the AG metagame. I'm not completely sure of its main purpose in the meta so please others enlighten me if I am incorrect but I would assume a high power draco meteor would be among its main uses, as well as an absorber of extremespeed and other attacks and as a bulky rock setter.

I'll run some calcs in compliance with what smogon says its uses are (http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/dialga/):

"Primal Groudon does hurt Dialga's viability, however, as it can also fulfill the same role of a Stealth Rock setter and, because it comes with more perks, outclass Dialga in some areas."

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 136-161 (36.4 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 309-367 (76.6 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

"Dialga's Ground-type weakness hurts its viability even more in a metagame dominated by Primal Groudon, and Dialga's lack of reliable recovery means it can be very susceptible to being worn down."

As shown in the initial calc, Dialga is very susceptible to even non-STAB Earthquake taking its life. Imagine how it fairs against a primal groudon.

"Draco Meteor provides a great STAB attack for Dialga, OHKOing nearly everything weak to it with the exception of Latias and Giratina while also dealing great damage to neutral targets"

It can't even OHKO the stuff it beats with its "niche" I stated earlier. What is this madness?

252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 440-522 (87.4 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Latias: 342-404 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (did not include Soul Dew as I realise now)

(With life orb it can OHKO these two, however it struggles to stay alive without Shuca or bulk)

What is required
Dialga is more worthy of a ranking of B+ or below. As the metagame has been heavily influenced by the implementation of Primals prior to the metagame creation, Dialga is struggling to survive with powerful attacks from Primal GDon and Mega Ray.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Dialga is worthy of B- if not lower imho. What Goose said for reasoning ^

idk we probs shouldn't be writing such short replies
anyway goose is pretty much right. in the oras ubers thread it's like A- but here it's deserving of B or B-, especially since you can P-don spam and Mega Ray, Mega Diancie, etc. all carry EQ/Earth Power. IDK if B- or lower tho since e.g. Zekrom is an offensive 'mon that is weak to EQ too and has the same speed tier etc. yet is still at B-. Dialga may be a slightly different case due to being able to run support sets but there are still offensive Dialgas so... B or B+.

 

[Funbot28]

Sorry haven't had much time to update the rankings so here is a small update:

Dialga: A ---> B
Kyogre-Primal: S- ---> A+
Palkia: B ---> B-
Lugia: A+ ---> S-
Drifblim: Unranked ---> C

Still on the fence with Zekrom rising, due to the prevelance of P-Don and Key Spam hindering it.

Topics for discussion:
Anything really that relates to recent meta trends can be discussed

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Sorry haven't had much time to update the rankings so here is a small update:

Dialga: A ---> B
Kyogre-Primal: S- ---> A+
Palkia: B ---> B-
Lugia: A+ ---> S-
Drifblim: Unranked ---> C

Still on the fence with Zekrom rising, due to the prevelance of P-Don and Key Spam hindering it.

Topics for discussion:
Anything really that relates to recent meta trends can be discussed

y is drifblim ranked wut does it counter/check
Also BTW should we rank Amoonguss? At least in C-....

 

[Funbot28]

y is drifblim ranked wut does it counter/check
Also BTW should we rank Amoonguss? At least in C-....

Drifblim is ranked due to it being able to succesfully carry out BP chains with a bit of team support

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Ok so far we've discussed these things since the last update:
- Darkrai - remain in S-
- Zekrom - remain in B-
- Xerneas - remain in S
- Lugia was suggested to move up to S-
- Chandelure and Scizor to remain unranked.

I honestly think most of us can agree on the placement of Dialga at the moment being completely wrong for the current state of the metagame. Dialga is not worthy of an A and I find it hard to believe that it was in any point in time during the history of the AG metagame. I'm not completely sure of its main purpose in the meta so please others enlighten me if I am incorrect but I would assume a high power draco meteor would be among its main uses, as well as an absorber of extremespeed and other attacks and as a bulky rock setter.

I'll run some calcs in compliance with what smogon says its uses are (http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/dialga/):

"Primal Groudon does hurt Dialga's viability, however, as it can also fulfill the same role of a Stealth Rock setter and, because it comes with more perks, outclass Dialga in some areas."

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 136-161 (36.4 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 309-367 (76.6 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

"Dialga's Ground-type weakness hurts its viability even more in a metagame dominated by Primal Groudon, and Dialga's lack of reliable recovery means it can be very susceptible to being worn down."

As shown in the initial calc, Dialga is very susceptible to even non-STAB Earthquake taking its life. Imagine how it fairs against a primal groudon.

"Draco Meteor provides a great STAB attack for Dialga, OHKOing nearly everything weak to it with the exception of Latias and Giratina while also dealing great damage to neutral targets"

It can't even OHKO the stuff it beats with its "niche" I stated earlier. What is this madness?

252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 440-522 (87.4 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Latias: 342-404 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (did not include Soul Dew as I realise now)

(With life orb it can OHKO these two, however it struggles to stay alive without Shuca or bulk)

What is required
Dialga is more worthy of a ranking of B+ or below. As the metagame has been heavily influenced by the implementation of Primals prior to the metagame creation, Dialga is struggling to survive with powerful attacks from Primal GDon and Mega Ray.

Please refrain from using coloured text, not everyone has a godky eye sight :p

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Ok so far we've discussed these things since the last update:
- Darkrai - remain in S-
- Zekrom - remain in B-
- Xerneas - remain in S
- Lugia was suggested to move up to S-
- Chandelure and Scizor to remain unranked.

I honestly think most of us can agree on the placement of Dialga at the moment being completely wrong for the current state of the metagame. Dialga is not worthy of an A and I find it hard to believe that it was in any point in time during the history of the AG metagame. I'm not completely sure of its main purpose in the meta so please others enlighten me if I am incorrect but I would assume a high power draco meteor would be among its main uses, as well as an absorber of extremespeed and other attacks and as a bulky rock setter.

I'll run some calcs in compliance with what smogon says its uses are (http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/dialga/):

"Primal Groudon does hurt Dialga's viability, however, as it can also fulfill the same role of a Stealth Rock setter and, because it comes with more perks, outclass Dialga in some areas."

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 136-161 (36.4 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 309-367 (76.6 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

"Dialga's Ground-type weakness hurts its viability even more in a metagame dominated by Primal Groudon, and Dialga's lack of reliable recovery means it can be very susceptible to being worn down."

As shown in the initial calc, Dialga is very susceptible to even non-STAB Earthquake taking its life. Imagine how it fairs against a primal groudon.

"Draco Meteor provides a great STAB attack for Dialga, OHKOing nearly everything weak to it with the exception of Latias and Giratina while also dealing great damage to neutral targets"

It can't even OHKO the stuff it beats with its "niche" I stated earlier. What is this madness?

252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 440-522 (87.4 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Latias: 342-404 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (did not include Soul Dew as I realise now)

(With life orb it can OHKO these two, however it struggles to stay alive without Shuca or bulk)

What is required
Dialga is more worthy of a ranking of B+ or below. As the metagame has been heavily influenced by the implementation of Primals prior to the metagame creation, Dialga is struggling to survive with powerful attacks from Primal GDon and Mega Ray.

dat Lati set is pretty questionable. Even if it's main selling point over Latios is better bulk, you shouldn't be using a specially defensive one like that because with Soul Dew it already has pretty great special bulk. That reminds me:
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Latias: 296-351 (81.3 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (soul dew is not in the calculator yet)
Yes, this is a little nitpicky.