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April statistics from Shoddy Battle are up
- Thread starter Amazing Ampharos
- Start date
Outside of speed, Deoxys-e isn't really as nasty as some other things (alakazam has it solidly beat as far as sp-attack, for example) its stats are around, or lower, than a good chunk of the rest of OU. Its danger is from its unpredictability. Its been around awhile now, despite some people having issues with it as they still consider it "uber" tier material, the competitive edge has no qualms about using anything to win.
Wobbafet is strong, but only really works if you build your team around him, otherwise he's not as effective.
For both there are still people objecting, but as the months fly by that argument is wearing thinner and thinner. For the past several months both have been sitting at the bottom of OU usage with no sign of spiking dramatically. Both arn't looking as dominant as many thought they would, both are powerful threats, but beatable, that's nothing like if you let something like say... lugia or kyogre loose in OU.
lol clamperl, ho-oh will not work in OU 154 base SPdef and a high burn rate move...
and wobby and deoxys should not be in BL, that then breaks BL tier... no one uses deoxys and wooby because people use the same boring squads made up of the top 10 pokemon and no one really wishes to change what wins so its a dead horse flogging
and wobby and deoxys should not be in BL, that then breaks BL tier... no one uses deoxys and wooby because people use the same boring squads made up of the top 10 pokemon and no one really wishes to change what wins so its a dead horse flogging
What...The...Hell...Happened...To...Gardevoir....
:'(
I'm a sad Cypher now.
:'(
I'm a sad Cypher now.
Can someone write something saying what Pokemon dropped the most and what climbed the most?
We need Ho-Oh OU testing. Stealth Rock and Physical Attacks can screw Ho-Oh over. Even with 154 SpD Surf and Thunderbolt still dent him. Obviously decent speed and amazing attack with Sacred Fire is good but he still requires testing. If Manaphy, Latios, and others are getting testing then why exclude Ho-Oh?
They're using Wobbuffet to get Charizard a free Belly Drum. Or to get Smeargle a free Belly Drum, and pass it off to Lucario.
Bleh, Bibarel dropped from 119 to 171 because I didn't play shoddy at all this entire month. :( Why do I have to be the only one endorsing him!
I am glad to see the rise of the Shaymins though. It went from 134 in February usages to 92 in March usages and now 82 for April's usages. :]
I'm actually pretty surprised to see that Gengar isn't the #1 lead. Bronzong is good, but I personally see a lot more Gengars as leads. Whatever, I didn't play much this month so I guess that's probably why I don't know.
I did try out ubers though, and I'm glad to see that Shedinja is in the top 30. That thing is the best late-game sweeper in ubers IMO, especially because nobody uses Stealth Rock/Spikes/Sandstorm teams/Hail teams in ubers. I seriously just get rid of the opponent's annoying Darkrai/Ho-Oh/Groudon, then I'm pretty much home-free since most other sets can't even hit Shedinja unless they stick Toxic on there specifically for him. Heh, it's cool that some teams are actually "Shedinja weak".
I am glad to see the rise of the Shaymins though. It went from 134 in February usages to 92 in March usages and now 82 for April's usages. :]
I'm actually pretty surprised to see that Gengar isn't the #1 lead. Bronzong is good, but I personally see a lot more Gengars as leads. Whatever, I didn't play much this month so I guess that's probably why I don't know.
I did try out ubers though, and I'm glad to see that Shedinja is in the top 30. That thing is the best late-game sweeper in ubers IMO, especially because nobody uses Stealth Rock/Spikes/Sandstorm teams/Hail teams in ubers. I seriously just get rid of the opponent's annoying Darkrai/Ho-Oh/Groudon, then I'm pretty much home-free since most other sets can't even hit Shedinja unless they stick Toxic on there specifically for him. Heh, it's cool that some teams are actually "Shedinja weak".
Um, I'd like to say that Bologo's last paragraph is kinda misleading.
First, Shedinja is in no way the best late game sweeper in Ubers, lol. DD Rayquaza, DD Taunt Tyranitar, Deoxys-A and the like take credit for that. But I guess this is "opinion" so I'll leave this alone.
Second, no one uses Stealth Rock / Spikes / Sandstorm teams / Hail teams in Ubers? Both Tyranitar and Forretress are used more than twice Shedinja is, meaning people use "Sandstorm" and "Spikes / Stealth Rock" a hell of a lot more than Shedinja is used. But look at the other Pokemon ahead of Shedinja...Dialga, Groudon, Blissey, Deoxys-L and Jirachi (Blissey and Jirachi less so in Ubers but I have seen them do so) all can set up Stealth Rock, and the Pokemon just below Shedinja, Celebi, often sets up Stealth Rock.
Third...most other sets can't hit Shedinja? Only 9 Pokemon in top 25, Kyogre, Latias, Metagross, Latios, Palkia, Scizor, Mew, Manaphy and Smeargle, don't have viable moves that can hurt Shedinja.
Yea...Shedinja is not that great an option in Ubers.
First, Shedinja is in no way the best late game sweeper in Ubers, lol. DD Rayquaza, DD Taunt Tyranitar, Deoxys-A and the like take credit for that. But I guess this is "opinion" so I'll leave this alone.
Second, no one uses Stealth Rock / Spikes / Sandstorm teams / Hail teams in Ubers? Both Tyranitar and Forretress are used more than twice Shedinja is, meaning people use "Sandstorm" and "Spikes / Stealth Rock" a hell of a lot more than Shedinja is used. But look at the other Pokemon ahead of Shedinja...Dialga, Groudon, Blissey, Deoxys-L and Jirachi (Blissey and Jirachi less so in Ubers but I have seen them do so) all can set up Stealth Rock, and the Pokemon just below Shedinja, Celebi, often sets up Stealth Rock.
Third...most other sets can't hit Shedinja? Only 9 Pokemon in top 25, Kyogre, Latias, Metagross, Latios, Palkia, Scizor, Mew, Manaphy and Smeargle, don't have viable moves that can hurt Shedinja.
Yea...Shedinja is not that great an option in Ubers.
IMO 154 special def still makes Ho-oh pretty easy to get in, esp on unstabbed t-bolts. Bulky ones aren't going to be taking much even from something like Gengar. It's 90 speed is what makes it lose, but sacred fire still makes it uber IMO.
Some samples calcs with Ho-oh, I chose gengar for it's powerful SAtk and Suicune because it seemed like the best OU counter with enough Def to handle the 130 base Atk
Max HP/Max SDef (+nature) Ho-oh vs. Max SAtk Gengar.
394 Atk vs 447 Def & 416 HP (T-bolt 95 base power): 122 - 144 (29.33% - 34.62%)
4hko w/ leftovers. (assuming no stealth rock or sandstorm)
Stealth rock makes it a 2hko =(
Max Atk Ho-oh (with Choice band) vs. Max HP/Def (+Nature) Suicune
591 Atk vs 361 Def & 404 HP (Sacred Ash 100 base power): 88 - 104 (21.78% - 25.74%)
Seems good, except for the burn.
Max SAtk (+ nature, no damage boost) Ho-oh vs. Max HP/Min SDef Suicune
350 Atk vs 239 Def & 404 HP (T-bolt 95 base power): 200 - 236 (49.5% - 58.42%)
(60.16% chance of 2HKO with Leftovers, near 100% chance with SS)
Dmg Calc used: http://ownpurpose.com/damage_calculator_test.php
My own prediction: If this thing becomes OU, it would easily surpass other pokes to become the #1 lead (with choice scarf). Burning pokes and doing massive dmg on the switch is pretty awesome and eases on a lot of prediction. Heatran is an easy 1HKO with EQ and can't really do anything back short of HP Rock.
On the stall side of life, it can even outstall slower HP Rockers with Roost. Things that can hit hard with Stone Edge can't really counter it because none of them (maybe Magcargo does) like to be hit with a Sacred Ash burn.
As of now many teams can live without using stealth rock, this thing can really overcentralize certain teams to the point where every team carrying a Ho-oh might need at least 1 or even 2 rapid spinner and a weavile, spiritomb or other pursuiter for ghosts.
Some samples calcs with Ho-oh, I chose gengar for it's powerful SAtk and Suicune because it seemed like the best OU counter with enough Def to handle the 130 base Atk
Max HP/Max SDef (+nature) Ho-oh vs. Max SAtk Gengar.
394 Atk vs 447 Def & 416 HP (T-bolt 95 base power): 122 - 144 (29.33% - 34.62%)
4hko w/ leftovers. (assuming no stealth rock or sandstorm)
Stealth rock makes it a 2hko =(
Max Atk Ho-oh (with Choice band) vs. Max HP/Def (+Nature) Suicune
591 Atk vs 361 Def & 404 HP (Sacred Ash 100 base power): 88 - 104 (21.78% - 25.74%)
Seems good, except for the burn.
Max SAtk (+ nature, no damage boost) Ho-oh vs. Max HP/Min SDef Suicune
350 Atk vs 239 Def & 404 HP (T-bolt 95 base power): 200 - 236 (49.5% - 58.42%)
(60.16% chance of 2HKO with Leftovers, near 100% chance with SS)
Dmg Calc used: http://ownpurpose.com/damage_calculator_test.php
My own prediction: If this thing becomes OU, it would easily surpass other pokes to become the #1 lead (with choice scarf). Burning pokes and doing massive dmg on the switch is pretty awesome and eases on a lot of prediction. Heatran is an easy 1HKO with EQ and can't really do anything back short of HP Rock.
On the stall side of life, it can even outstall slower HP Rockers with Roost. Things that can hit hard with Stone Edge can't really counter it because none of them (maybe Magcargo does) like to be hit with a Sacred Ash burn.
As of now many teams can live without using stealth rock, this thing can really overcentralize certain teams to the point where every team carrying a Ho-oh might need at least 1 or even 2 rapid spinner and a weavile, spiritomb or other pursuiter for ghosts.
Dunno. I use him as a scarfed lead and he gets the job done reliably.
Uhhh, this is from my experience, I didn't say in general. -.-
I didn't say that Sandstorm doesn't exist, I just said that Sandstorm TEAMS don't exist because Kyogre and Groudon mess them up completely.
I've never seen a Dialga, Groudon or Blissey use Stealth Rock at all in ubers. The only guys I ever see using Stealth Rock are Forretress and Deoxys-D, and I really don't see all that many Deoxys-Ds out there, so that only leaves Forretress for me.
For your third point, I was referring to the pokemon's standard sets, not their entire movepool. Obviously a lot of pokemon have a move that can hit Shedinja in their movepool. Also, when the #1 used pokemon in ubers can't do a damn thing to Shedinja, it can't possibly be a terrible option. If you were referring to standard sets, then ok, but even then, being a 100% counter to 36% of the top 25 is nothing to scoff at.
How is Shedinja not a good lategame sweeper? Once the pokemon on the opponent's team capable of killing Shedinja are gone, come in with Shedinja and you've just guaranteed a win. I'll admit it's not the best, but there's not many pokemon out there that can guarantee a win like that. You should actually give Shedinja a try in ubers, you might be surprised that it's actually good, especially with easier weather changing.
Scizor and Metagross have Pursuit, and I've seen HP Fire Lati@s.
On that note, nothing would make my day more than a Kyogre killing a Shedinja with a surprise Ancientpower and getting the all stats boost.
One thing I just noticed about DP ubers is Slaking's horrible position. In RSE he was somewhat decent in ubers, but he seems like he is nearly literally unused in DP (only 12 uses in the whole month). I guess the propagation of rock and steel, along with the whole "Giratina exists" thing, kinda killed him.
I should stress though that you shouldn't overestimate the role Pokemon like Forretress are having on the uber metagame just because they're in the top 20 or 30. His position is roughly equivalent to Deoxys-e's or Alakazam's in standard; he's just outside of "uber OU". The usage is just way more clustered toward the top in ubers so it can be misleading. This applies far more to something like Shedinja. His position at 26th means that he's really not much of a force in ubers. It's definitely a stronger showing than his #142 ranking in standard, but he's still clearly "UU" in the uber metagame.
On this note, the usage list for ubers starts getting really bizarre once you get past about 50th. What do Solrock and Banette possibly have to offer to an uber team? Why does Banette have such a higher rank than Dusknoir? Usage lists get less reliable as quality predictors the farther down you go, but it seems like the effect is greatly exaggerated in ubers due to the heavy centralization and lack of popularity relative to standard.
One thing I just noticed about DP ubers is Slaking's horrible position. In RSE he was somewhat decent in ubers, but he seems like he is nearly literally unused in DP (only 12 uses in the whole month). I guess the propagation of rock and steel, along with the whole "Giratina exists" thing, kinda killed him.
I should stress though that you shouldn't overestimate the role Pokemon like Forretress are having on the uber metagame just because they're in the top 20 or 30. His position is roughly equivalent to Deoxys-e's or Alakazam's in standard; he's just outside of "uber OU". The usage is just way more clustered toward the top in ubers so it can be misleading. This applies far more to something like Shedinja. His position at 26th means that he's really not much of a force in ubers. It's definitely a stronger showing than his #142 ranking in standard, but he's still clearly "UU" in the uber metagame.
On this note, the usage list for ubers starts getting really bizarre once you get past about 50th. What do Solrock and Banette possibly have to offer to an uber team? Why does Banette have such a higher rank than Dusknoir? Usage lists get less reliable as quality predictors the farther down you go, but it seems like the effect is greatly exaggerated in ubers due to the heavy centralization and lack of popularity relative to standard.
They are still going to be popular, grass Arceus counters Kyogre, but not Dialga (4x STAB resist), fight Arceus counters Diagla but not Kyogre. I haven't used Arceus yet in uber battle, but I'm pretty sure that he's going straight to #1 for his shear versatility in stats and type.
The Mexican Quacker needs more love. He was so awesome in Adv. He eats Water Spouts for breakfast and sends Grass Knots out his arse into Kyogre's face.
Ho-oh testing should be undergone, but it can hardly be considered OU just because of its SR weakness. With that logic, Yanmega and Ninjask should be the lowest of NU.