Aquariums

Chou Toshio

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Fact: Guppies and Tetras are for noobs, you are the one that is noob.

Guppies and tetras are a man's fish. Well, just remember, I'm not a fish keeper, I'm an artist.
To me, fish are simply paint strokes in the full piece.

Take it as a compliment I guess but I really don't see any difference between that "masters" tanks and yours. How do you even clean them? Like standard suction methods tend to rip up the planted plants and I've noticed that it makes the bottom turn kinda swamped in no time at all with decaying plant matter.
Before I get into the details, just remember the important motto: "Healthy plants = healthy fish." Plants are overwhelmingly positive contributors to fish health-- oxygenating water, removing poisonous substances, serving as medium for beneficial bacterial colonies, releasing anti-bacterial agents into the water, decreasing fish stress . . . the list goes on and on. As long as you can keep plants healthy, fish will thrive.

If you can keep plants healthy, they go a long way in "keeping things clean." they not only purify water, but also out-compete algae, preventing it from growing.

Generally, "decaying plant matter" is almost non-existent (or at least extremely minimal) in a dedicated planted tank, but animals like Amano Shrimp, Otocinclus cats and Siamese Algae eaters double-duty in both controlling the tank's minimal algae, and consuming old plant leaves. Also, if your plants/tank are truly healthy, a bit of decaying biological matter (like discarded shrimp shells or dead leaves) actually provides good additional plant nutrients.

I do a lot of maintenance for plant/fish care (dosing fertilizers, trimming plants, feeding fish, etc.), but the only "cleaning" I do are weekly water changes (about 20%-50% a week) and very occasional glass scraping.

@ Chou - wow, I'm kind of speechless of how awesome that is.

So, do you have to use a filter on your tank or do all of the live plants take care of oxygenating the water?
Yes and yes-- you do have to use a filter, but you do rely on the plants to oxygenate the water.

First, the purpose of a filter on a planted aquarium is not to oxygenate the water (this is not its primary function even inside regular fish tank), but to create water flow and enhance biological filtration. While plants do eat up ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (in fact you have to dose additional nitrite/nitrate for them), a stable nitrogen cycle is much more easily produced with the inclusion of mechanical filtration with developed bacteria colonies for biological filtration. While cycling the tank is less important than in a fish tank, it is still highly recommended.

Now, I mentioned that the filter is generally not used to oxygenate the water in a planted tank-- that is because unlike in a fish-only tank, a planted tank cannot afford heavy water surface disturbance. Filtration is usually done with an external (canister) filter, with both the in-flow and out-flow outlets installed below the surface of the water to avoid surface turbulence. With no surface turbulence, plants must do the heavy lifting in oxygenating the tank (which, they actually do much better than surface turbulence).

Why no surface turbulence? Have you ever shaken a bottle of soda? If you shake water, you loose saturated CO2, and if you've ever taken basic biology, you know that CO2 is essential for photosynthesis-- ie. no CO2, no plants.

3 components are needed for optimum photosynthesis and plant health-- light, carbon dioxide, and a number of macro/micro nutrients (fertilizer). These things must be balanced inside the aquarium for plants to thrive.

Light is generally supplied in high-powered compact florescent lights (6000-10,000 kelvin). Unless you have purchased or built lighting specifically for planted tanks-- you don't have enough light. Your basic aquarium kit is hopelessly dull in supplying light. Also direct sunlight is generally a bad idea, as it is highly conducive to ugly algae growth and will make things a cleaning nightmare. Metal Halides are high-energy, high-power options often used by more skilled gardeners with high-growth tanks, but are also loved by salt water coral enthusiasts. Generally, that degree of intense light is unnecessary for beginners.

Carbon dioxide fertilization is essentially . . . necessary for the planted tank. Water contains very low amounts of saturated carbon dioxide (back to our soda example, CO2 escapes water very easily). In nature, aquatic plants either (a) live with flowing constant new water, or (b) grow "air" leaves out of the water (example: lily pads). Since neither of these options are available in the aquarium where the water stays the same and aquatic growth is used for the design, the water itself must be artificially saturated with CO2. Generally this is done with "pressurized CO2", a CO2 canister hooked up to a regulator (a mechanical mixer that blends CO2 into the water during filtration) or the more popular diffuser (which feeds directly into the tank, and creates a fine "mist" of CO2). I use the diffuser method. Fine mist means that CO2 bubbles rise slowly and have a lot of surface area-- optimal for saturation in water. With good water flow, the mist also makes direct contact with plant leaves, allowing the plants to absorb the bubbles directly.

Fertilization . . . well, there's all sorts of nutrients plants need, and all sorts of ways people dose fertilizers-- from pre-mixed products to direct measurement and dosage of laboratory "hard ferts." I personally go for the simplest methods available . . . generally, nutrient rich substrate is also used in planted areas of the tank.


Now that you have some idea of how things work, let's talk about the sexiness of this tank's system to illustrate how it works in the world's most massive planted tank:




So Amano's home tank, the biggest planted tank in the world-- it's measurements are 150cm x 150 cm x 500cm (~ 5ft x ~5 ft x ~16' 5")!!


The tank's specs for filtration, CO/fertilization and lighting are insane-- with that size, they have to be!


First the lighting system. Between 5 am to 9am, the overhead sky lights are opened to allow direct sunlight to come in. While constant direct sunlight is definitely bad, small doses of early morning sunlight are good for overall plant care (though is generally unnecessary). At 8:30, before the sky lights are shut, several florescent lights come on to provide the staple lighting, and run until 6:00 in the afternoon. The tank also has several high powered metal halide lights it burns for 2 hours of the midday. With such a deep tank, the lighting regiment is even more important, and it's incredible that Amano-san can grow this tank (with stem plants no less!) and not have any dying/decaying leaves or plant matter even at the lowest levels (with the least light) in the tank.

Now, if you look in the upper right hand of the tank, you'll see a glass box inside the aquarium. This is the "crash box" and is the outflow of the filtration system. It is actually a customized 15 gallon ADA rimless tank, that has been hooked up so that its rim matches the surface of the water. Teeth are grooved into the edge of the crash box to allow water to flow in between the teeth and into the crash box. Now, remember how I said that surface disturbance is bad for planted tanks? This is where the beauty of the crash box comes in. Water splashes down, turbulates, and gets oxygenated inside the crash box-- without affecting the CO2 saturation of the main tank! From there, the now oxygenated water goes into the filtration system.

The aquarium is actually constructed over a massive sump system, with several chambers used to treat water during the filtration process. Of course there are several chambers dedicated to your standard biological filtration, but there are a number of unique and plant-specific chambers as well! Of course, the sump is hooked up to automatically resupply water lost to evaporation, as well as do the weekly water changes. Fertilization of macro and micro nutrients is also carried out automatically inside the sump. There is also a chamber with an air stone used to further oxygenate the water. Next, a chamber with CO2 Reactor is used to churn in CO2 and re-saturate the water with carbon dioxide. Finally, the water is run through a UV filter (used to kill phyto plankton and microscopic floating algae species that cause "green water"), before being re-routed through the outflow pipes into the aquarium. A very high flow rate is used blow out trash (uneaten fish food or dead leaves) caught between plant leaves, and is also integral for fertilization/CO2 delivery, and also ensures activity and exercise by the fish.

Of course the tank is also home to approximately 1000 Siamese Algae Eaters, 400 Otocinclus catfish, and some 1500 Amano Shrimp, that play their roles in eating algae, uneaten fish food, and generally disturbing plant leaves/sand to free up debris to be picked up by the water flow/filtration system.

Yeah, a lot of the insanity described above is irrelevant to your average hobbyist (or even your average planted aquarium designer), but it demonstrates the basic principles-- and I figured if you wanted specifics on setting up more simple systems, you can ask me or better still: Go to an aquarium forum.

There are several planted aquarium forums that are wonderful sources of aquarium information. I don't go to them any more though because they have even more angst, drama and other annoying BS than smogon does! (incredible!)

If you want info/links on other sites, PM me-- I don't want to "advertise" on our forums.
 
Dude, in my tank fish get ripped to shit, as do small non aggressive shrimp. So things pile up in the gravel substrates, especially around the plants. I've noticed a lot of things like corys and loaches digging plants out actively like pricks. Cleaning the areas around plants with the sucky tubes just rips the plants out of their moorings, it's very annoying.

Plants can be rather important, but some of us don't at all mind algae- after all it functions in a similar way to plants and keeps my snails happy and healthy. I did have a planarian invasion at one point, that was fun for dealing with algae! lol

Okay SOME tetras can be manly


but no guppies, swordtails or platys can be.
 

Chou Toshio

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True, Algae is just not pretty-- it's an aesthetic thing (after all, we're doing it with art as the primary objective-- not fish collecting/keeping or care). For us, it's a constant war with Algae. :P

For me, fish that (a) look good in the tank (match the tank) (b) won't break my wallet, are ideal. :P
 
I actually like it from a functional ecosystem perspective- when there is nothing to scavenge the snails and shrimp go after it instead!
 

Chou Toshio

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To me, it's a good clean tank, when I actually have to supply cut cucumber to keep my cleaning crew fat and happy.

Though, there's almost always enough algae around (grrrr . . .) that it's unnecessary.


I'm actually between layouts right now-- I just tore down the last layout I posted with the blue Hakkai rocks and Red Phantom tetras. This thread has inspired me to get started on my next layout-- I think I'll put it together tonight! I'll post photos soon.
 
I'd like to see something that utilizes floating plants. Also a densely grassed Bichir tank would make for excellent hunting.
 

Arcticblast

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I have a 10-gallon aquarium with two black tetras, two serpae tetras and some snail I got at PetSmart because I thought it would eat up the loose food at the bottom of the tank and I don't have money for a vacuum.

I'm more into the fish than the appearance.
 

Yeti

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Looks to me like Roseline Sharks (actually some Barb species but I forget their real name) are in that tank. Pricy little buggers and they hated my tank.

Amano shrimp are the stuff. Mine is at least 5 years old and has survived everything.. infections, being run over by a vacuum cleaner, escaping twice. Hardy little shrimp.

I have a 60 gallon tank, though it probably has as many plants as yours it's by no means designed in any particular fashion. The java fern just kept multiplying and now it's everywhere but the fish don't mind.

I love cory, I think they stand out just fine but our gravel is red. Albino cory are definitely the most striking members of the family and the easiest to notice.

We haven't bought new fish in years so there's just some fat old tetras (plus the 4/10 Neons I bought a couple weeks ago that survived), two fat old loaches, a Flying Fox (that was his sale name but we honestly have no clue what species he actually is, he's ~6 inches and torpedo shaped but a very peaceable sort, rather skiddish even), I believe 5 3-inch cory still swimming, and the new betta. OH and the shrimp.

Our stock is down from what it used to be - ich killed almost all the tank then my dad got too lazy to buy more lol.

We've had this setup since 2000 but the java ferns are from a couple years before. The old tank cracked when we moved so we bought this 60 gallon one. Most of our fish are probably 4+ years old.

Morm I don't know how you can stand snails. We hated them when they hitched a ride on some new plants. Luckily, clown loaches adore snails.

About the only algae cleaners we have anymore are the shrimp and Flying Fox. Plecos never liked the tank (we had one fat old guy who hid in a log all day. it was rare we saw him but he lived a fair while until ich) and our old Otos have died off, so my dad has to scrub the glass when we change the water.

If you want to get in to aquariums I recommend starting with a large freshwater tank and progressing to more advanced plants/fish species as you go.

Also you can keep male bettas in community tanks, I've only had problems with them and platties/mollies but they were jerk fish anyway. One platty was like 5 inches and ate tetras alive so we threw him in the greenhouse which had a couple inches of standing water. That fathead lived for a couple years after.
My current betta has grown probably a cm+ on his fins since coming to the tank, I bought him small though as small bettas usually are younger ones.

I want to pull my old 5 gallon tank out and set up a small saltwater tank with a Peppermint shrimp and Firefish but we'll see. Live rock/sand is a whole different ballgame than these fat old freshwater fish with their hundred+ java ferns.
 
Morm I don't know how you can stand snails. We hated them when they hitched a ride on some new plants. Luckily, clown loaches adore snails.
If I ever got those little plant ones in my tank I'd use assassin snails to clean them the fuck up. I have mystery and a japanese mossy snail- I love how the face of the mystery's look and how active they are, but they die about 1 every 3 weeks to the newts prying open their operculum. I HATE the face of the Jap mossy snails- looks like a dick with a radula on the end but its bigger so might be able to resist the horrendous newts better.

I like the snails because, quite frankly, not much else lives long enough to do its algae eating job with these newts. The shrimp I have are wood/flower shrimp and do fuck all for algae cleaning. I'm desperate to find some more whisker shrimp but they aren't stocked often as they are very aggressive. Anything smaller will be eaten- hell a whisker shrimp was even eaten whole! FUCK.

You have a good eye for fish!! One comment on that though- Plecos are SHIT for cleaning algae. They actually tend to only eat it when starving, they are pretty devoted driftwood eaters from what I've been told. Japanese Algae Eaters are apparently quite good, I've never had any live long enough in ANY tank- hell, my most gentle tank saw killi's get slaughtered within a week!

We have a dramatically different philosophy, Chou, on tank building- you go for plants, peace and function. I tend to build around something hideously aggressive and interesting and get as much function out of it as I can. I wish I could get away with 3 inches less of water so I could score some vampire crabs to help clean things up :(....but as you know, crabs are death to all plants! Fuckers love ripping shit apart just cause they can.

How can I make my driftwood fuzzy like that in the tank? All I see up here is moss balls, is that the same thing? Can I perhaps tear one apart and staple it (lol) to the driftwood??
 

Chou Toshio

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Morm-- Moss collecting is a hobby in and of itself: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/Leong_Mosses.html

There are now countless species of aquatic moss in the hobby now. The guys in South East Asia are crazy for mosses, and are constantly on the hunt for new species. The most common is Java moss, one of many Taxiphyllum species in the hobby. Vesicularia are popular too.

Moss species are extremely hardy, needing very little in the way of light and nutrients-- though of course robust growth needs CO2 and high water movement.

Many moss species attach themselves to wood in time, but regardless, we use cotton thread to tie it to wood. Super Glue is an interesting alternative.

1) Tight initial tie down of a thin layer of moss
2) frequent trimming
3) high water flow
4) high CO2
5) low temperature (in the 60's is ideal)
6) medium-low lighting, like some shading from taller plants

Are the ideal parameters to achieve the ideal condition for moss, but they tolerate a wide range of parameters. Usually, we set parameters to the needs of more picky plants/fish (ie. higher temperatures preferred by tropical fish), and moss still looks great. It is also one of the few plants that can do ok with little lighting, and even without CO2.

Moss balls, the Japanese marimo, are not plants, not a moss species, or any type of bryophyte (which includes liverworts like Riccia and Pellia sp.). Marimo moss balls are a species of Cladophora, an algae genus.

While Cladophora are not nearly as popular as moss species are, it is possible to break them, attach them to wood and grow them. Here's an example of someone who has grown Cladophora on wood (though it was a naturally occuring algae, rather than a deliberate attachment):

 

Chou Toshio

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I doubt it, but I've never tried it myself. If you break it up and tie it to rocks/wood with thread though, it should eventually grow over the thread so you can't see it.
 
How fast growing is this? I'd be interested in planting some short grassses and get rid of some of those algae ridden rocks- I need visual barriers to at least help mitigate the ongoing violence in this tank. Fast growing and tough species, can you help me with some visuals as I'm retarded?

Also just throwing this out there but does anyone know of a cold water (~20C/70F) species of fish that is about 5 times+ the size of a neon tetra that can swim pretty fast? Would Black skirt tetras work in unheated? I want fiiiish but my newts kill most of them.
 

Chou Toshio

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"fast growing" and "tough" usually don't go together-- it's usually one or the other.

Fast growing = delicate, high maintenance, expensive equipment

tough/low maintenance = slow growing

in the world of plants. Hornwort is the only thing I can think of that is both fast, tough, and low maintenance.

Always growth is dependent on light and nutrient availability.
 
I have hornwort, loving it so far. Can you think of something that would like growing vertically along some yarn? It's what I am using to anchor an submerged floating platform- it's ugly as fuck but I needed more territory for the other male (who I thought was female -_-). It's functional but so ugly! I keep envisioning a vine-like thing or something, IDK. The whole reason I wanna plant this area is to cover up this blemish!

how slow is slow? And how slow will that fuzzy algae "moss ball" shit grow?

Light is overhead hood (standard) for 12 hours per day or so, nutrient isn't too bad at all but no active fertilization.
 

Chou Toshio

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Regular moss has a "moderate" speed. I'll post some picks tonight, but I have freaking heaploads of moss from that last layout. It's no hornwort or other stem plant, but when you're not paying attention it covers up everything. After a few months, I have so much of the stuff, I couldn't control it. One of the main reasons I tore everything down and am redoing-- it looked great until I went on vacation and all the plants, including the moss, just grew like nutz while I was gone.

Moss will grown on any surface you attach it to, so I'd imagine if you used cotton thread to tie it to the yarn, it'd eventually cover it up. Look up "java moss", probably the most common, the toughest, cheapest, and easiest to find.

the moss balls are uber slow I'd imagine, but I'd never kept them.
 
I woke up today to find 6 pea-sized baby snails moving around. This is very good news, with the mortality rate of these guys so high it will save me some dollars in the coming months! They are are cute, they are the species I prefer too!
 

Chou Toshio

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Well, here we go. Last week a friend of mine helped me yank out that giant rock from the last layout, and I have been putting clean up off. Hopefully this will be the birth of an awesome new layout with the driftwood you see soaking in the water. I'll report back here in a couple hours. :)
 
Chou, what is it exactly that got you into aquariums? Which aspect intrigues you more/keeps drawing you back: the art of it all, or the fish and creatures that you keep alive and care for?

I've always wanted a huge saltwater tank but right now don't have the time or money (or room) for it.
 

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Also just throwing this out there but does anyone know of a cold water (~20C/70F) species of fish that is about 5 times+ the size of a neon tetra that can swim pretty fast? Would Black skirt tetras work in unheated? I want fiiiish but my newts kill most of them.
Rosy Barbs are agile, hardy, somewhat large (~6 inches) and from my understanding, can tolerate temperatures from the 60Fs and higher. Perhaps you can try them.

Black Shirt Tetras could work, but if your temperature drops too low then its's sayonara fishies. IMO I wouldn't take the risk of adding them to your newt tank.
 
Barbs are too aggressive, though to be fair this tank is hyper aggressive. Maybe I'll give one a try and if it dies it'll meet a similar fate to the other fish that have fucked with my newts.

Speaking of which, one of my newts almost died in a tragic derp accident with a snail. Gotta love that.
 
Iirc I saw some fucking huge Roseline Shark-looking things that were about ~8 inches long or there about in an aquarium a few weeks ago. I will attempt to find out what they were for you Morm.
 
most 'shark' are called catfish or carp in fresh water keeping. ARGH I can't deal with anything that big, I need like 2-3 inches or really boxy-shapyed (tall and wide) to help the newts from slaying...also semi aggressive, as everything in this tank bickers, fights...and even the fucking snails try to kill the newts. I have videos of that, but yeah, THAT thread died?

Fun convo going on for months between chou and I. (start of it is linked) I think you can tell how we are at odds about the basis of aquarium keeping...man, two different approached but both amazing, IMO.
 

Chou Toshio

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I've kept you guys waiting . . . :{




Of course it still doesn't look great since we just started, but I think it'll shape up quite nice! There are still some leftover plants floating in the tank-- not sure what I will do with the extras. For now I will let them float to suck up extra nutrients until the planted plants get settled and jump into high-gear.

On the left, you can see my CO2 diffuser, sending CO2 bubbles into the tank.

On the right, the ADA Steel inflow and outflow pipes attached to my Eheim External filter.

Above, ADA's Solar II Lighting system, equipped with 2x 36w PC Florescent lights. It's relatively low lighting for a tank of this size, but I generally think it's not a good idea to push the plants too much, and lower light is certainly easier on maintenance (higher light = higher growth rate, and ultimately a higher need to cautiously manage CO2/fertilization).




My new fishies, Japanese Rosy Bitterlings :) Right now all my tank residents are Japanese organisms.




A not a really good picture of one of my Amano Shrimp:



Was too lazy to put on a close up filter :{

I really want to buy a real macro lens soon . . .

Chou, what is it exactly that got you into aquariums? Which aspect intrigues you more/keeps drawing you back: the art of it all, or the fish and creatures that you keep alive and care for?

I've always wanted a huge saltwater tank but right now don't have the time or money (or room) for it.
As I mentioned, I had a lot of pets as a kid, and also a small 10g aquarium. Sometime in high school, I missed having cory cats around, so I decided to start a new aquarium. So, I started looking around pet stores for prices/learning about new gadgets.

One day I went into a local shop, and made a life-changing discovery.

It was a thickly planted, and beautiful aquarium. It was like a sprawling meadow and thick distant forests of bright green and red. It was filled with beautiful and colorful fish, all healthier and more vibrant than I'd ever seen in an aquarium before. Of course, there were also some very rare cory cat specimens too! I was inspired-- all the years I'd spent painting suddenly felt so drab. This . . . this was a greater art-- so powerful and inspirational it shook me to the core. I wanted it, had to have it.

What's funny now, that looking back at that first "meeting" with aquascaping that inspired me, the layout actually wasn't that good. As I learned more aquascaping, I also realized its artistic weaknesses, and found that there were much greater heights.

Coming from a strong painting/drawing foundation, my own layout skills soon far surpassed that first inspirational layout. In other words, even a mediocre aquascapes has that much artistic power.

Still, I'll never forget that first inspirational moment.


As to which aspect keeps drawing me back . . . hmm . . . both?

I was one of those kids who spent hours and hours drawing and drawing-- I went through so much paper as a kid frustrated at a child's motor skills. I've always been an artist.

On the other hand, I was also one of those kids who spent every recess in the library (at least up til third grave). Pretty sure I read all the library's books on crustaceans, then insects/bugs, then birds of prey, then fish, etc. etc. Animals have always fascinated me.

I do consider myself first and foremost an artist-- I'm not a scientist after all, and thirst for creative outlet.





Saltwater coral tanks can be very attractive as well, and are an intensive challenge from a tank-keeping perspective, certainly as challenging as freshwater planted. However, I strongly prefer freshwater planted as an artistic media.

Saltwater coral tanks have no metaphor-- what you see is what you get. You cannot aspire to capture or create anything but a reef scene.

Freshwater planted can do so much more than that. As planted aquarium designers, we design stone gardens. We make great flower beds. We construct great mountain scapes, forests and wide rolling meadows. We capture fleeting moments of a crimson autumn, or a deep thick green summer. We can take you into the midst of a deep jungle, by a gentle stream bed, or underwater in a perfect biotope of a thick south-east-asia cryptocorene stream. It's not painting, but compared to saltwater, freshwater planted has endless possibilities as an artistic media-- all with the power and life that comes with working with an aquarium.

Yeah, I can talk about it for hours. Don't get me wrong, I still love painting, drawing, and photography too, but Aquarium design will always be #1 love.
 

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