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Arbok (Revamp) (QC 1/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Elegy96, Sep 22, 2012.

  1. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    [OVERVIEW]
    • Giant purple snake brings cool factor to teams
    • Mediocre stats and typing make Arbok often overlooked
    • Semi-exclusive move Coil makes Arbok a viable force
    • By boosting attack, defense and accuracy of his STAB he becomes hard to take down
    • Great coverage including priority
    • Two handy abilities
    • All in all a very good anti-meta Pokemon


    [SET]
    name: Coil + 3 Attacks
    move 1: Coil
    move 2: Gunk Shot
    move 3: Aqua Tail / Earthquake
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
    nature: Jolly
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Intimidate / Shed Skin

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Coil is Arbok's key to success
    • Acts as a Bulk Up while also boosting Gunk Shot's accuracy to 91%
    • This gives Arbok a great STAB that tears through anything that doesn't resist it
    • Aqua Tail destroys Golurk and hits the flyers and levitators that Earthquake cannot, such as Misdreavus, but Earthquake hits Steel types like Probopass much harder
    • Sucker Punch is handy priority and a guard against revenge killers
    • Useful on offensive teams needing help against niche threats such as Gurdurr and Ludicolo


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • -Speed EVs to outpace positive base 70s eg Samurott, Ludicolo
    • -Max attack to hurt, rest in HP to take hits better
    • -Intimidate makes Arbok bulkier and therefore easier to set up on Gurdurr etc, whereas Shed Skin helps against walls like Amoonguss and Alomomola
    • -Life Orb can help deal considerably more damage but recoil racks up quickly, and Leftovers helps Arbok stick around longer, making it the better option
    • -Licklicky can take special hits for Arbok, while Arbok takes fighting attacks
    • -Licki can also support with Wish and Heal Bell, which is paticularly useful if Intimidate is used over Shed Skin
    • -If Earthquake is chosen have a counter to Gourk, eg Tangela, and something to take out Misdreavus and Haunter, eg Skuntank
    • -If Aqua Tail is chosen have something for Steel-Types, Gurdurr and Sawk are fine choices
    • -Carracosta and the rare Relicanth counter this set well, so grass-types work well to deal with these
    • -Zangoose and Arbok can help eliminate each other's counters
    • -If Sucker Punch is missing then faster sweepers like Ludicolo can run riot, so Paralysis support from the likes of Ampharos or Regirock are good choices
    [SET]
    name: Bulky Coil
    move 1: Coil
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Gunk Shot
    move 4: Aqua Tail / Sucker Punch
    evs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
    nature: Adamant
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Shed Skin

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • While the previous set works best against offensive teams, this one is a complete stop to many stall teams
    • Arbok's immunity to Toxic and partial immunity to status via Shed Skin is brilliant, turning him into a semi-reliable status absorber for the team
    • Can turn top walls like the Alomoonguss core into set up bait, and after a few boosts can take physical hits all day
    • Wait until Psychic types are removed, then boost up freely
    • Coil gives Arbok a pseudo-bulk up boost while also boosting the accuracy of his main STAB
    • Impervious to most physical attacks besdies EQ, while also dealing heavy damage
    • Rest is a valid option with Shed Skin, enabling Arbok to heal off repeated attacks and absorb status, helping him stall out most Physical threats.
    • Gunk Shot is the primary attack, powerful STAB boosted further with Coil
    • Aqua Tail is the best coverage move, preventing you from being walled by Steel types or Ghosts, as well as hitting Golurk much much harder than Earthquake. It also benefits from the accuracy boost
    • Sucker Punch is still an option to prevent revenge killers like Swellow, Cincinno, Gardevoir and the like from ruining your day but provides little two-move coverage

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • -Speed EVs let Arbok outspeed neutral base 55s such as Torterra and Exeggutor
    • -Paralysis support from the likes of Probopass is very helpful to let Arbok outspeed slower threats and gain more boosts
    • -Earthquake is an option to hit Steels such as Probopass, Bastiodon and Klang harder as well as something to hit Seismitoad, but AT has generally better 2 move coverage
    • -Sucker Punch is an option but teammate support is essential to beat Rock and Steel types, so Sawk and Torterra are ideal choices. They also benefit from Arbok tearing apart Alomomola and Amoonguss.
    • -Generally the same team-mates from the previous set work well



    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    • Arbok has few options other than Coil; it is what gives him a niche
    • Choice sets aren't very effective and are outclassed by mon such as Braviary
    • Additional coverage moves include the elemental fangs, Seed Bomb and Pursuit
    • These are all generally outclassed by any of the listed moves
    • Glare is an interesting choice to paralyse ground types, but Arbok has no room for it
    • Dragon Tail is an option to deal damage and phase out counters, it could be used over a coverage move, but it gives no worthwhile coverage

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
    • Psychic types eg Musharna, Gardevoir
    • Misdreavus walls sets lacking Aqua Tail
    • Alomomola beats the first set with ease
    • Rock types eg Regirock, Carracosta, and Golem (non AT variants)
    • Bulky Seismitoad takes hits all day and can scare the snake out with Earth Power
    • The main key to countering Arbok is forcing him out before he has a chance to rack up several boosts
  2. Django

    Django
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    OK looking at this I would say Arbok needs two sets. The first set there is fine and works well with Intimidate against more offensive teams, so keep that. I would also add a bulky Shed Skin set that can take advantage of Rest to completely destroy stall teams. Something along the lines of:

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Coil
    move 1: Coil
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Gunk Shot
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Aqua Tail
    evs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spd
    nature: Adamant
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Shed Skin

    This completely counters both Amoonguss and Alomomola, two of the most common Pokemon in the tier, and sets up on them with ease. It does lose ot on coverage by virtue of running Rest, but the issues with that can be worked around. If you run Sucker Punch then lots of support to remove Rock / Steel types is necessary (Choice Band Earthquake, Choice Band Sawk etc) while if you run Aqua Tail (or even Earthquake) then lots of paralysis support is necessary to get around Arbok being slow. The Speed EVs on this set outspeed Adamant Torterra as well as Modest Exeggutor and other neutral base 55's. You could easily run a bit more Speed and I think zeb has got a good spread for this. I've used this set and its great, and should definitely be in the analysis.

    As for what you've currently got: firstly please put [SET COMMENTS] in bullets, its easier to check that way. Same goes for Checks and Counters.

    • Mention specific teammates: Musharna shares good synergy, Braviary can lure and beat Rock / Steel types etc etc. More detail needed.
    • Mention Jolly in AC of the set you've got up. Outspeeding Adamant Sawk and at worst tying with non-scarf Braviary can be crucial.
    • Mention the role of hazards in wearing down Arboks usual checks, such as Regirock.
    • Explain the EV spread in AC, even if its simple it still needs to be justified.
    • You haven't listed an item anywhere on the set. Leftovers and Life Orb are good choices for your set.
    It's a good start, just needs some work done to it. I'll check this again when you've updated it!
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
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    I've used Django's identical set, but I really think that Aqua Tail should get the slash before Gunk Shot. Water/Poison is phenomenal coverage, only missing out on Water Absorb Seismitoad, which is basically a free switch in for any Grass-type. If it uses Sucker Punch, it can be played around very easily with Substitute users (I mean really, Haunter, Klang, etc totally screw you over). Aqua Tail is brilliant for Arbok since it lets you smack around Probopass, Golurk, Regirock, Golem etc which can all easily take out Arbok thanks to their typing and STAB moves (admittedly Golurk is also mauled by Sucker Punch, but if it's SubPunch you just lost). With Aqua Tail Arbok can also totally set up on Weezing, which could counter it otherwise.

    Also, Substitute is a fine option over Rest on this set. Use it with Intimidate, and you can now still avoid status, set up on Alomomola and Amoonguss (Clear Smog versions really annoy the Rest set) and scout for Arbok switchins. Generally all the utility Substitute normally brings to the table, since it's essentially a physical SubCM set (proven to be a good strategy, excellent two move coverage and immunity to Toxic).

    So yeah I recommend Django's set be the first one, and that Aqua Tail have the primary Slash before Sucker Punch (which is really quite weak and can be played around easily).
  4. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    Thanks a bunch for the comments :) I've edited the OP with suggestions and improvements. I think I'm fully ready for QC checks now.
  5. Django

    Django
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    You should really put the skeleton in bullet points, it saves everyone a lot of time since its easier for QC to check over, as well as easier for you as you don't have to constantly rewrite full prose.

    Also Sucker Punch should be slashed with Aqua Tail on Bulky Coil.
  6. Zebraiken

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    Agreeing on bullet points (aka it's a requirement, not a suggestion). You can save the prose you have written already in
    Show Hide
    tags if you want, but it's really much easier for QC to pick out the important parts of your analysis if it's in bullet point form and subsequently it makes you a checklist of important things to include in your analysis. You don't have to write out full sentences, but you need enough to get the point across. Here is an example of a solid skeleton and ideas of stuff you should be including / discussing on your own skeleton.

    I'm fine with Django's spread being the primary one for bulky Coil. Coil + 3 Attacks wants 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe @ Jolly for outpacing positive base 70s (it's such a huge number with Ludicolo and Samurott sitting there - the boost from Adamant is NOT worth underspeeding them). I also really don't like LO on offensive Arbok, since it's got decent bulk and it's more of a utility mon than an outright sweeper. Leftovers recovery is incredibly useful. I also would prefer that EQ and Aqua Tail be slashed rather than Sucker / AT; they're very much similar and running both on the same set is kind of a waste of a moveslot. Aqua Tail is primarily to hit Golurk harder (you cleanly OHKO after SR at +2, while EQ won't even 2HKO all of the time in the same scenario), but EQ hits most targets harder and also lets it beat opposing Arbok / Muk etc. Aqua Tail does let you hit stuff like Misdreavus much harder too - it's really personal preference and should be emphasized in the analysis (though EQ / AT should be the order of the slashes). Shed Skin should also be slashed by Intimidate and the benefits of each explained (easier setting up vs being able to Shed Skin off burns from stuff like Alomomola).

    You need to expand both the set comments and additional comments for both sets. Try explaining how each set is different in function or how they play in the set comments; for example, bulky Arbok does much better against defensive teams and can be very effective against stall outright (most stall teams actually cannot stop it at all), while offensive Arbok is a good tool for responding to stuff like Gurdurr and a check to Ludicolo etc. It's of utmost importance to explain how each set works and why they're useful in the current metagame - simply telling us what each move is for is really easy to anybody to interpret. You also seem a little bit mixed up about what goes where in the analysis, so I'll break a few things down really quickly:


    <p></p> <-- don't forget these at the start and end of every paragraph, once you begin writing them

    [SET COMMENTS] <-- remember this should be in all caps

    in set comments belongs:
    • explanation of why the set is good and how it works
    • brief description of the purpose of each individual move, what they hit, what situations they should be used in, etc
    • talk about why you should use each slashed move too
    • explanation of the items that are slashed; which ones should be used and why, etc

    in additional comments belongs:
    • explanation of EV spread
    • any additional EV spreads that aren't the main one (if they exist), give a reason why they should be used
    • any unlisted (but viable) items / moves and their explanations. don't throw on random items here, make sure to ask QC
    • begin listing teammates; you're a bit free here, but the more that are listed the better. defensive and offensive options are always nice too, and don't fall into the trap of always suggesting spikes support please unless it's necessary for specific KOes. think of offensive synergy (breaking down similar checks / counters) for both mons; ideally, the listed partners would be optimal ones not pokemon you randomly guess might work well together. defensive synergy is important as well; being able to switch into a full counter of something else is always nice. for example, listing zangoose as a partner is a good idea for arbok. not only does zangoose break apart many of arbok's counters, but it really appreciates arbok's ability to set up on stuff like alomomola, tangela, amoonguss, regirock, gurdurr, etc. it's obviously not perfect but still.

    AC should be your largest section for each set, and it should be fully detailed. Flip through some on-site analyses to get an idea of what you should be including in each section (don't steal from them, though!). I'll give this a closer look-over once you expand each section and work them into bullet points.
  7. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    Rightio done. I think there's definately more i can add to AC (paticulary for the Bulky set) but still, comments please :)
  8. Django

    Django
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    Coil + 3 Attacks:

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Comments on abilites go in AC, and you need to expand more on the choice between Intimidate and Shed Skin. Intimidate lets it beat certain threats like Gurdurr with greater ease, while Shed Skin lets it set up on Amoonguss and Alomomola, among others.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Don't mention Adamant here unless it actually gets some specific KO's, putting it in for the sake of it is pointless.
    • Again, show some specifics for Life Orb, actual benefits rather than "more damage"
    • Mention Wish support from Lickilicky
    • Braviary itself can beat Rock / Steel types, be sure to make that clear
    • As zeb mentioned, don't fall into the trap of mentioning hazard support for the sake of it. Find specific KOs Arbok can get with the hazard support, otherwise leave it out.
    Bulky Coil:

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Actually explain how it beats a stall team. Setting up on key members like Amoonguss and Alomomola is a start, while being immune to Toxic Spikes as well as having Rest to heal off the very weak hits from walls, as well as making it effectively immune to Burn and Paralysis as well. Much more detail is needed here (more than what I've just stated here)
    • Talk about Coil here, its an independent set from the first one and still needs explanation
    • Sucker Punch is a slashed move, thus it gets explanation in Set Comments
    [ADDTIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Torterra has 56 base Speed, not 55. Regardless, the spread is made to outspeed Torterra, and thus base 55's as well. Just clear that up
    • Specifically mention what Earthquake hits harder (Probopass, Bastiodon, Klang) while also mentioning what Aqua Tail hits harder.
    • Explain how paralysis is more important for sets without Sucker Punch, as faster threats like Special Samurott or Ludicolo can demolish you with impunity.
    • If the user chooses to run Gunk Shot / Sucker Punch without Earthquake or Aqua Tail, then team support to remove Steel types (and Rocks) is needed. Powerful Choice Band users with SE STAB moves are perfect, like Sawk, Torterra, Gabite etc. Arbok Also beats down Alomomola and Amoonguss for them
    • See previous comments about hazard support
    This really needs to have a lot more detail and actual specifics in it before it can be approved, but it's certainly getting there. One thing Zebraiken mentioned which I want to see more on is this:

    Which is something I think is currently lacking. As an example, the choice between Earthquake and Aqua Tail needs a significant amount of discussion, simply stating the types they hit is not good enough, as anyone can figure that out. Golurk is a major factor in players choosing Aqua Tail over Earthquake, but it is not mentioned anywhere in the analysis. Once the level of detail is improved and more specifics are included then I'll take another look at this, decent work so far.
  9. Amarillo

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    A couple of things:

    • I see no reason to go Black Sludge on first set: just stick with Leftovers. C&C standards for consistency unless Black Sludge gives significant benefits, iirc. And it never does.
    • Give teammate suggestions depending on your coverage option.
    • For Aqua Tail variants, Carracosta does very well against it. Mentioning offensive but bulky teammates like Exeggutor is good given Arbok's bulky offensive playstyle. Note this goes on the AC. Mention other things that do well against Aqua Tail Arbok. Name bulky offensive teammates that do well against them.
    • For EQ variant also does poorly against Haunter. Mention things that can counter Haunter, like Skuntank, or something that revenges it, like Cinccino. Golruk also does well against EQ Arbok. Mention things that do well vs. Golurk, for example. I hope you get the gist.
    • I dare say Aqua Tail gets slashed first over EQ on the offensive set. What does other QCs think?
    • For bulky coil, mention a revenge killer other than Swellow. Something specially oriented, if possible. Especially without its orb activated (which sometimes happen because Swellow loves its Quick Attack) it will do some laughable damage after some boosts.
    • Actually now I see you don't mention Regirock and Carracosta for checks. Mention them. Also mention how they're rather shaky given their physically offensive nature, but EQ when unboosted still does a whole lot to Arbok. And Regirock can paralyze if you have no Shed Skin. Also, remember the situational counters we talked about already in AC? Mention those as well, and explain how they are situational.
    • Watch out for capitals in [SET], the orders in set information, capitals, and spaces. They matter. Django's format is the correct one. The first one isn't.

    Also a warning just ahead of time, it's not exactly something I have power over as QC but given this is your first time writing analyses: please, refrain from cliches. This especially happens in the Overview section. "Seems like outclassed... but is a great Pokemon." "a great Pokemon that every team should prepare for" etc. are the main suspects that do not give any relevant information but act as space-fillers for people who are unable to come up with a good closure. Don't do it.

    With all of these implemented, this has improved significantly. Sure other people has things in store, but take this as a reward for all the hard work implementing 3-4 rather thorough checks. Don't worry, QCing will not take you forever!

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  10. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    Thanks again for the comments. I've tried to implement lots of these. Have I got the formatting right in the OP?

    Also more checks would be mucho appreciato.
  11. Amarillo

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    Nope:

    You will notice that Name, EVs, Nature, Item, and Ability is capitalized on the incorrect version. You should decapitalize. There should be spaces between slashes for the ev's. Just something small, but something to notice.
  12. alkinesthetase

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  13. Amarillo

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    Yeah, DTC mentioned this in IRC. Black Sludge it is, then. My bad.

    (I haven't done too much C&C after that change =( Not to mention this isn't overly important.)

    What I was more concerned with was the consistency, though. The first set had black sludge, while the second set had leftovers. I wasn't exactly know what the C&C's stance on this, but thought that both sets should have Black Sluge, or both sets leftovers. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
  14. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    Rightio, I've corrected the formatting and put Black Sludge on both sets for the time being, unless there are any objections.
  15. Django

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    You should implement the changes outlined in this post, this will be a lot closer to approvals after you do
  16. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    I've added some more. Apologies in being slow, I have had college work.
  17. Brammi

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    Saying that Arbok's choice set is outclassed by Braviary is completely inaccurate as choice Braviary and choice Arbok are completely different.

    Might be worth a mention instead that it's usually outclassed but Switcheroo + Cool Abilities provide a niche if it fits the team. Not worth a set, but worth at least a positive point in the AC.
  18. Amarillo

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    Switcheroo should probably go into Other Options, I believe.

    Can we get an update on whats going on, if possible?
  19. Django

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    Torterra has 56 base Speed, not 55.
  20. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    this is being reassigned too

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