Arceus-Fire

[Valzy]

Overview
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• Like all Arceus Formes, has good all around stats, but can't hurt much without boosts
• Defog helps, but He is still weak to Stealth Rock
• Can't hold an item
• Is probably one of the worst Arceus Formes
• Gained resistance to Fairy, making Specially Defensive Fire Arceus a good Xerneas Check
• Weak to common attacking types such as water, rock and ground

Offensive Calm Mind
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name: Offensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Thunder/Thunderbolt
move 4: Recover/Ice Beam
ability: Multitype
item: Flame Plate
ivs: 0 Atk
evs: 160 HP/252 SpA/96 Spe
nature: Timid/Modest

Moves
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• Calm mind boosts Arceus' Special Attack and Special Defense at the same time
• Judgment is the mandatory STAB, hitting hard in the sun or after a few calm minds
• Thunder hits Kyogre hard but thunderbolt can be used as a more reliable alternative outside of rain
• Recover allows to heal off stealth rock damage and any other damage He might have taken
• Ice beam hits the mighty dragons who resist Judgment and Thunder

Set Details (WIP)
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• 160 HP/252 SpA/96 Spe with a timid nature lets Him outspeed positive base 100s. Maximum Speed is possible but not very useful.
• Use 132 HP/252 SpA/124 Spe or 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD if using modest
• 0 Attack IVs minimize foul play and confusion damage (not that they're very common)

Usage Tips (WIP)
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• Keep SR off field as much as possible to perserve arceus' bulk
• Unless you a few calm minds already set up, staying in on Kyogre is not recommended
• Make sure all of Arceus' counters are eliminated before you use Him

Team Options (WIP)
========

• Groudon brings Sun Support, powering up Judgment and negating his water weakness
• Defog and Rapid spin users keep Arceus happy

Specially Defensive
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Recover
move 4: Roar/Will-o-wisp/Toxic/Reflect/Lightscreen/Subsitute
ability: Multitype
item: Flame Plate
ivs: 0 Atk
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
nature: Calm

Moves
========

• Calm mind boosts boost Arceus' already high special bulk while allowing Him to boost His special attack at the same time
• Judgment is the mandatory STAB, hitting hard in the sun or after a few calm minds
• Recover is reliable reocvery
• The last move slot is the most variable, Toxic helps wear down opposing walls, Roar gives phazing, Will-o-wisp and Reflect gives Him a way to deal with physical threats, while lightscreen makes Him a nearly impervious special wall and Subsitute helps Him avoid status.

Set Details (WIP)
========

• Max HP and Special Defense maximize Arcues' Special Bulk
• 0 Attack IVs minimize foul play and confusion damage (not that they're very common)

Usage Tips (WIP)
========

• Keep SR off field as much as possible to perserve Arceus' bulk
• Make sure all of Arceus' counters are eliminated before you use Him

Team Options (WIP)
========

• Groudon brings Sun Support, powering up Judgment and negating his water weakness
• Defog and Rapid spin users keep Arceus happy
• Clerics are useful

Other Options (WIP)
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• Earth Power can be used on the Offensive set to hit Heatran
• Focus Blast hits Blissey, Heatran and Tyranitar

Checks and Counters
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• Kyogre
• Tyranitar counters Arceus if He lacks Focus Blast
• Garchomp is a check if He lacks Ice Beam
• Specially Defensive Quaqsire completely walls Arceus and can 3HKO with Earthquake
• Taunt users cripple the Specially defensive set and significantly weaken the offensive set
• TBC

 

[Hack]

+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Fire: 246-290 (64.3 - 75.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Fire: 185-218 (48.4 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 165-195 (43.1 - 51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Fire: 226-266 (59.1 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

think through the spread a bit. psyshock Xerneas also beats you regardless, unless you have roar.

 

[MMII]

^ Can't he CM on the turn he is hit and recover stall it out afterwards? (legit asking cause I didn't calc) I guess shock wins anyways but, ugh, the move is so bad on GeoXern.


o wait i forgot sr was a thing

 

[MMII]

Valzy If you could get CM set fixed up (I think it'll need to run max hp instead of spatk to check xern) and have the overview, checks counters, and other options sections all out of wip (so bascially everything but the second set for now) by tommorrow that would be reallly helpful for me. We are going to have the new dex live soon and need at least a place holder skeleton.

 

[Valzy]

Valzy If you could get CM set fixed up (I think it'll need to run max hp instead of spatk to check xern) and have the overview, checks counters, and other options sections all out of wip (so bascially everything but the second set for now) by tommorrow that would be reallly helpful for me. We are going to have the new dex live soon and need at least a place holder skeleton.

The Calm Mind set isn't supposed to check Xern, the Specially Defensive one is.

 

[MMII]

Oh I think it should, otherwise there really isn't much point in running Fire Arceus. (and I'd rather have a CM set that checks Xern than some super specialized spdef set with a bad typing)

 

[Disaster Area]

Agreeing with that; that's basically the best feature of its typing.
In all honesty I think judgement + spacial rend is probably its best set of option on specially defensive CM since palkia seems to always switch in on it in my experience >.> also you MUST have recover as well as CM as you need both to handle xerneas appropriately (unless you carry roar I guess, but that defeats the point of fire arceus)

 

[MMII]

Valzy How is this going? Main spread should be max hp, max speed btw.

 

[MMII]

Here's what I had for Fire Arceus placeholder analysis. I'll probably end up taking this over when I've handled the mons I have right now or this can be used by somebody else who takes over or yourself when you get back.

Hide

Overview
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- The added Fairy resist finally gives Fire Arceus a much desired niche as a check to threats like Geomancy Xerneas
- Alongside this small defensive niche, it can run a CM set with an nice offensive STAB
- Short of checking Fairy-types, the defensive typing is useless and vulnerable to multiple common types like Water, Ground, and Rock
- Even offensively, Fire Arceus's STAB requires more coverage than it has moveslots leaving it easily checked by quite a few Pokemon
- Opting for Fire Arceus prevents you from using another, more generally useful Arceus forme

Calm Mind
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name: Calm Mind
move 1: Judgment / Flamethrower
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Recover
move 4: Thunderbolt / Spacial Rend
item: Flame Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe

Moves
========

- Judgment is a reliable STAB move with a solid damage output
- Flamethrower is weaker than Judgment but it comes with a small chance to burn
- Fire Blast is a fair bit stronger than Judgemnt and has a small burn chance but the accuracy isn't perfect and it has only 8 PP
- Calm Mind gives Fire Arceus a boost in Special Defense to beat out Geomancy Xerneas as well as a boost in Special Attack to have a more significant offensive presence
- Recover is also neccessary to gather more boosts, particularly when fighting against a Geomancy Xerneas
- Thunderbolt has fairly nice coverage with Arceus's Fire-type STAB as it hits Kyogre and Ho-Oh for supereffective damage and Palkia for neutral damage
- Spacial Rend hits Dragon-types for supereffective damage and has nice neutral coverage with Judgment but it misses out on hitting Kyogre which is an important target due to the bothersome rain it brings
- Thunder is much stronger than Thunderbolt and has a high chance to paralyze but the accuracy is poor outside of rain which isn't favorable weather to Fire Arceus's STAB

Set Details
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- Max HP is needed to reliably check Geomancy Xerneas and max Speed is needed to speed tie with other Arceus formes and outspeed as much as possible since Fire Arcues has a mediocre defensive typing and prefers to not get hit.

Usage Tips
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- If Stealth Rock is up and you want to check Geomancy Xerneas, take advantage of the fact that the coverage options that hit Fire Arceus for neutral damage only have 70% accuracy to spam Recover until it either misses or Xerneas tries to boost again. You can then starting gathering Calm Mind boosts that make handling Xerneas a lot easier.
- If Stealth Rock isn't up you can simply use Calm Mind to beat Geomancy Xerneas.
- Surprise is a very nice element when using niche Arceus formes like Fire Arceus. Odds are, from team preview your opponent will assume your Arceus is an Extreme Killer Normal Arceus if you lack an Xerneas check elsewhere on your team.
- Try to eliminate any opposing Kyogre as fast as possible as they'll be a huge thorn in your side when trying to go on the offensive with Fire Arceus
- Fire Arceus doesn't like Toxic and Paralysis as it can't do much of what it is expected to do once crippled with these statuses so avoid them at all costs

Team Options
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- Groudon brings sun which powers up Arceus's STAB and gets rid of rain. Although, these benefits are much less important as weather only lasts 5 turns
- Defog support from Mega Scizor or Giratina-O is appreciated as Fire Arceus is weak to Stealth Rock. It isn't needed to fulfill its role as a Geomancy Xerneas check
- Palkia is very appealing as a Kyogre check which Fire Arceus is quite vulnerable to
- Landorus-T helps with Ground-types like Ground Arceus

Other Options
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- A Swords Dance set with Overheat and Extremespeed can take advantage of Fire Arceus's strong STAB move to roast physical walls but it's a gimmick set at best
- Roar is an option on the CM set to beat Geomancy Xerneas that use Psyshock but that coverage option is a mediocre choice for Xerneas and it requires Xerneas to boost more in order to do over 50% to Fire Arceus in the first place

Checks & Counters
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**Kyogre**: Summons rain and has very large special bulk. It can also don a Choice Scarf and OHKO with Surf.
**Palkia**: Doubly resistent to Fire and neutral to Electric while it can hit back with a STAB Hydro Pump. It has to watch out for Spacial Rend, though.
**Heatran**: Immune to Fire-type moves, resistent to Dragon-type attacks, and has enough bulk to easily tank Thunderbolts and hit back with Toxic.
**Tyranitar**: Large special bulk, Fire-type resist, and STAB, supereffective Stone Edge easily stops Fire Arceus in its tracks.
**Blissey**: Can tank any special attack and cripple with Toxic.
**Giratina**: Both Giratina and Giratina-O resist Arceus's STAB and has plenty bulk to deal with coverage moves, although Spacial Rend is bothersome.
**Lugia**: Very large special bulk with Multiscale and Toxic means Fire Arceus will struggle to break past Lugia.
**Rock Arceus**: Resists Fire-type attacks and doesn't mind Fire Arceus's coverage options while Rock-type Judgment is supereffective.
**Water Arceus**: Annoyed by Thunderbolt but otherwise fears little from Fire Arceus and its Judgment hits back hard for supereffective damage.
**Ground Arceus**: Has enough natural bulk to tank a boosted attack and hit right back with a powerful Earthquake.
**Ho-Oh**: With it's titanic special bulk, even Thunderbolt Fire Arceus will lose to Earthquake Ho-Oh while those with Spacial Rend have no chance.
**Stealth Rock**: Fire Arceus takes 25% from Stealth Rock making it a great way to indirectly limit what the Arceus forme can do.
**Zekrom**: Resists both Fire-type STAB and Thunderbolt while it hits back hard with Bolt Strike. Fears Spacial Rend, though.
**Charizard**: With the exception of Spacial Rend, Fire Arceus can't do anything to stop Mega Charizard X from gathering Dragon Dances.
**Reshiram**: Toxic Reshiram can abuse it's typing to cripple Fire Arceus and stall it out with Roost.
**Status**: Random Toxic and Thunder Wave will stop Fire Arceus from being able to amass boosts and pull off any sort of sweep.

 

[Nayrz]

I could take this over if its necessary, just let me know.

 

[Valzy]

I could take this over if its necessary, just let me know.

If you want to take over it you can

 

[Fireburn]

This has been taken over.