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Architect's Way

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Danmire, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Danmire

    Danmire its okay.
    is an Artist Alumnus

    Jun 6, 2010
    The Architect's Way

    Rayquaza: huehuehue


    Title is in reference to me having a major in Architecture and that I pave the way (well....Rayquaza's teammates do..). This is one of my many teams that I've been hoping to stick with. They've had some really good wins and some pretty bad losses, due to synergy or bad decisions. It is a standard team that still needs a bit of work, and I'm hoping to get some advice.

    The Sketch
    Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Magic Coat
    - ExtremeSpeed

    The standard suicide lead set for Deoxys-S. Deoxys-S is a pretty amazing Pokemon when I'm using it right. Stealth Rocks are there so that Rayquaza is able to pick off most Pokemon that take up the SR damage. Taunt is there for the slower leads that like to set up. Though the problem I've been seeing now is that most leads don't set up. They straight up attack to pick off as many Pokemon as they can before they die. This makes Taunt a bit useless, so I don't use it sometimes and just try to set up Stealth Rock before biting the dust. Magic Coat is to take out any Deoxys formes that like to Taunt so they can't set up themselves, but the biggest blessing this gives Deoxys-S is to use it against Darkrais. Darkrai leads (though starting to be a bit scarce)will always (unless they predict the magic coat, which is usually never)use Shadow Void. The Magic Coat sets the Darkrai to sleep, allowing me to set up Stealth Rocks easily. I then switch out to another Pokemon to take out Darkrai since ExtremeSpeed doesn't seem to be very useful. Though I now know through some trial and error how this lead works against most. I would usually Taunt or Magic Coat with now that I know are attacking leads like Zekrom or Tyranitar, which would usually cost me my entire set up. Tyranitar's Sand Stream would easily pick off my remaining HP when Tyranitar uses one of it's powerful STAB moves. Because I know this now, (again due to very much angry trial and error), I always go to Stealth Rock. All and all, it's a great lead for getting Stealth Rock up very fast and I have no trouble using it now.

    The Builder
    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam

    Kyogre is a goddamned beast, and for good reason. With its already immense Special Attack stat boosted with Choice Specs, he's my best Wall Breaker. Ice Beam is the obvious choice for Giratina variants and other Dragon types weak to it, that aren't specially defensive. Surf is to pick off the low leveled Pokemon, incase of a late game cleaning up. Thunder is for slower Kyogre, but it usually this Kyogre usually survives getting hit by another Thunder, if it's in full health, allowing me to get back at the Kyogre. Lugia from Stealth Rock damage is sometimes a problem. Water Spout is a great move, even knocking off half the HP of Arceus Water if full health. Overall, it's a great Pokemon in my team for taking down walls, but it sort of loses itself to only one usage, depending on the Pokemon. It's Special Defence investment does save my butt a few times whenever I get hit by a Special Attack, allowing Kyogre to finish that Pokemon off (this is if Kyogre is in full health and no Stealth Rock damage.)So it sort of acts as my special wall.

    The Eraser
    Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 28 HP / 228 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Encore
    - Mirror Coat
    - Counter
    - Safeguard

    Man, I fricken love Wobbuffet. It's main purpose is to take down the biggest threats to Rayquaza: scarfed Pokemon. When a scarfed Pokemon is to kill Rayquaza when I lure them, or use another Pokemon to lure them, I switch into Wobbuffet to take them down. Palkia and other scarfers like Terrakion have fallen to Wobbuffet. Encore is for when a Pokemon is stacking up on a stat, so Rayquaza or another Pokemon can come in and set up themselves, but my Pokemon has the freedom of attacking. The problem I have with Wobbuffet though is that it's a one time thing. I'd like to keep it later on in the battle, should there be another scarfer and none of my other Pokemon are able to take it down.

    The Engineer
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Scizor is to pick off any Pokemon that are really low on HP and I need to clean up something, if it's towards the end of the battle or if Rayquaza is taken down. Bullet Punch is an amazing move that allows me to do just that, taking down things that don't resist it or take neutral damage to it. Superpower hasn't really been used all that much. Scizor usually never sees the light of day (either it gets killed off or I lose), and it gets a bit irratating that I can never use it. Scizor is a Pokemon that I consider switching for something else, since Kyogre can also pick off any last minute Pokemon.

    The Wrecker
    Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Blizzard

    Kyurem-B is an absolute BEAST....if I have a time to set up of course. Outrage twice with one Hone Claws can take out Ferrothorn, should he recieve Stealth Rock. The problem with Ferro, of course, is the Gyro Ball so it makes Kyurem a one time thing. Kyurem-B is also pretty fail I notice, but I really want to keep him as a spare wall breaker, should Kyogre fall. It's attack stat is so godly, a Dragon types fall to it's Outrage. Blizzard and Fusion Bolt look great for Water types or Flying types slower than it. I also usually never use Kyurem-B due to him being frail and losing after 1 Outrage or another move due to getting hit and LO recoil, but when I do use him and I set up right, he can get the job done. Though I'd like to see a better way for him to take down more than just one wall.

    The Final Design
    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Overheat

    The team's center sweeper. I use it as a late game sweeper, as I have to make sure the walls are down and no Pokemon has set up yet. Dragon Dance Outrage is an amazing combo, as it delivers OHKOs on many Pokemon that aren't physically defensive. For those that are, like Giratina, it OHKOs it should it take damage from Stealth Rock. Earthquake is great for the pesky Steel types, though I usually have to use Dragon Dance twice for faster Pokemon such as Excadrill. Overheat also works well for Steel types and Grass types, but for fast ones like Skymin, I usually have to Dragon Dance twice. The problem with this set is that if there is Stealth Rock in the field, Rayquaza can only do so little when it takes LO recoil, but it can destroy so many Pokemon when I need to finish the game. The team is in need of rebuilding so I can center it around Rayquaza, but so far, it's not that bad.

    As you can see, this team needs some repairing to do and I'm open to any advice. I'm keeping Rayquaza as my center sweeper. Ratings are also appreciated.
  2. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    May 4, 2010
    Hiya Danmire, cool team!

    Using Kyurem-B to soften Rayquaza's counters is a real good strategy, but it does have a few weak spots that I'd like to refer to. To begin with, Extreme Killer Arceus[​IMG] could have one hell of an impact on your team. Scizor is your only check, and frankly, its a real lousy one; if its locked to the wrong move, Arceus will use it as setup fodder. Superpower may do quite a number, but Scizor might not be able to even touch Arceus. +2 Life Orb Arceus has 81.25% to OHKO Scizor with Earthquake, which is very likely to happen. As your team is really really slow, Speed Boost Blaziken[​IMG], Darkrai[​IMG], and Mewtwo[​IMG] can be really hard to deal with. All 3 are extremely powerful as well, so facing them won't be a pleasant thing. Ho-oh[​IMG] is also a threat as its bulky enough to take a few hits and can retaliate with its own STAB moves.

    Scizor really is the weak link of your team. It's a setup fodder for many threats, namely Ho-oh, Shaymin-S, and Blaziken, and it only slows your team down. The Dragon resist is indeed valuable, but Scizor isn't bulky enough to take advantage of that efficiently. Plus, your high offensive nature could work just fine without it. I recommend using Kabutops[​IMG] over Scizor. Kabutops is a great Pokemon to use under rain, as its extremely powerful and can check a wide amount of threats, namely Arceus, Darkrai, and Ho-oh, thanks to its high speed and typing. Rapid Spin allows you to spin away the hazards that bother Rayquaza, Kyurem, and Kyogre, Low Kick smashes Darkrai and Arceus, Stone Edge is a great STAB move which hits important threats such as Ho-oh and Kyogre the hardest, and Aqua Jet allows you to finish off Blaziken and Terrakion which could be annoying to face.
    Kabutops (open)
    Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Low Kick
    - Aqua Jet
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge

    Kabutops can't beat Mewtwo and other high fast Pokemon on its own though, so to remedy this I recommend changing Kyogre's item to Choice Scarf which grants you a great revenge killer. The EVs are 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe and they allow you to outspeed everything up to neutral nature Deoxys-A, including Mewtwo, Shaymin-S, and Darkrai.

    This change is optional, but I think you should use Custap Berry > Leftovers and Destiny Bond > Safeguard on Wobbuffet. With Custap Berry and Destiny Bond, you can now almost guarantee yourself another kill, thanks to the priority Custap grants Wobbuffet.

    Best of luck, Danmire!
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 6, 2009
    hey danmire, nice team. i agree with all of furry's changes, but i'd consider swapping out extremespeed for hidden power fire/fire punch on deoxys-s. genesect looks like it can be quite the threat to your team, as it can crush your current deoxys, strip kyogre off half its health with u-turn, iron head kyurem, ice beam rayquaza, u-turn out of wobb and possibly flamethrower scizor! hidden power fire hits it on its weaker SpD with naive, and hits forretress harder, but i think that fire punch gets the ko too. if it does, use fire punch obviously, as you don't want to lose every speed tie to opposing Deoxys-s. GL with the team!
  4. Danmire

    Danmire its okay.
    is an Artist Alumnus

    Jun 6, 2010
    Thanks for the rates you guys!

    @Furai: The threats you have listen have been the bane of my team and it's a shame I didn't talk about them in the OP. I considered using Kabutops. I'll update the team with results.

    @C.Agent: Thanks! Yeah, Genesect has been real threat as well, so I'll try out both FP and HP Fire.
  5. His Eminence Lord Poppington II

    His Eminence Lord Poppington II proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 29, 2010
    HP Fire is generally better because it does significantly more damage to Forretress (Fire Punch can fail to 2HKO in the rain) and doesn't trigger Iron Barb damage from Ferrothorn. However, I would actually prefer to see Spikes on Deoxys-S, as I elaborate on further down.

    This team's cohesion could do with a little work, generally when using Choice Specs ogre one needs solid counters to its switch-ins that can force it out, i.e. grass arc / latias, palkia - scizor served this role to a degree, but Furai's kabutops change also patches up a lot of holes (although I don't agree with the scarf kyogre).

    I would actually like to see a Choice Scarf Kyurem-B with significant SDef investment (go for Jolly 252 Speed to at least tie with +1 DD quaza). Keep Scizor for the priority, momentum, and Dragon-resist; however, I would also like to see 216 EVs from Attack shifted to SDef to avoid the 2HKO from Scarf Palkia's Thunder, and the combination of Dragon Pulse + any other move from Three Attacks 168 SpA Latias (most of the time, they need two obscenely good rolls).

    I would also like to see Spikes > ExtremeSpeed on Deoxys-S, which is a largely useless move. Forretress spinning on you for free is not a big deal with my next change - give Wobbuffet 60 Speed EVs, taken from Defense, to outspeed 0 Speed Forretress and Encore it. Fire Blast > Overheat on Rayquaza, as it achieves practically the same KOes without the risk of the opponent scouting and subsequently gimping your SpA for little damage (also allows you to be more liberal with your use of the Fire-type move to scout for Ferro / Forry etc).

    I would also shift 40 SpA EVs on Kyogre to Speed (and more from HP should you wish) as this amount of SpA still guarantees the OHKO on 252 HP Arceus with Hydro Pump and the extra Speed is great for creeping on support Dialgas and other slow base 90s.

    Good luck.
  6. Sweep

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 4, 2013
    I wholeheartedly support moving 40 Special attack (or HP) EV's to speed on your Kyogre. Speed creeping stuff like opposing Specsogre, Ho-Oh, uninvested Tentacruel, and support Dialga can win you games.

    I am no fan of Rayquaza, but you seem to love it and have won plenty of games with it. I would consider running Extremespeed over Earthquake though, to pick off weakened faster threats late-game such as Scarf Palkia. Earthquake really only hits Dialga, as many Steels either take neutral damage from it (Scizor, Forretress, Genesect, Ferrothorn) or nothing (Skarmory). To me, it doesn't synergize well with Overheat, and I feel that Extremespeed has a higher opportunity cost.

    Your Kyurem-Black is really cool. Glad to see Hone Claws get some usage.

    Scizor isn't very good IMO. It is slow and cannot take many hits. It can learn Bullet Punch, but its Steel-type STAB is resisted by many Pokemon in Ubers. I would replace it with Physical Scarf Genesect with Iron Head, U-Turn, Ice Beam, and Explosion. Use 252 Attack EV's, 252 Speed EV's, 4 HP EV's, and give it a hasty nature.

    Since you currently lack a Choice Scarf user, Wobb is a great way to kill at least one opposing Scarfer off a game. I like it.

    I would use Spikes on Deoxys-S. I don't think you need E-Speed, as it will do pitiful damage to anything outside of Deoxys-A and perhaps Espeon. If you want to keep an attacking move on Deoxys-S, use Fire Punch to virtually guarantee an OHKO on Genesect. HP Fire is also useful, but will not kill off Genesect as often. You will also become slower than opposing Deoxys-S by running Hidden Power.

    Scarf Palkia, though a terrible pokemon, threatens you. Make sure you kill it with Wobb because it can stop Rayquaza cold. Rock Polish, Choice Scarf and Choice Band Genesect carrying Ice Beam are also extremely dangerous, particularly special-based ones with Thunder.

    Finally, I feel like if you use Deoxys-S, you should have a Ghost-type to spinblock. Like me, you seem to enjoy offensive pressure so why not try out Arceus-Ghost over Scizor/Genesect? It can stop spinners cold, hit stuff extremely hard, and serve as a loose check to EK which gives your team problems.

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    4 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed
    Nature: Timid

    -Focus Blast
    -Calm Mind

    Focus Blast is a terrible move but can kill stuff like Ferrothorn and EKiller if you get lucky. It can turn stuff like Forry into set-up bait. After two Calm Minds, this wrecks almost everything, including other Ghost-types.

    Anyway, these are just a few suggestions. You don't have to take them. Good job.

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