Are IVs really worth the effort?

[metroidmania]

I've found that in constructing teams IVs really just aren't worth the effort. First of all please don't get me wrong; 31 points to a stat is significant, but it's too much work.

Of course, there's always Ditto (good IVs found with Synchronize). But you're not going to have the right nature, ability, and good IVs unless you're lucky or spent a whole lot of time. You might get a Heracross with 31 Attack and Speed IVs after hours of riding your little Mach Bike back and forth, but then it turns out it has Swarm and a Hardy nature.

IVs don't necessarily grant you a huge stat boost. Obviously, just because you don't IV breed doesn't mean you have 0 IVs.
I'm not saying that I'd use a 0 attack Heracross, but if it's, say, 14 with Adamant nature and Guts, then I'll settle since the difference isn't incredibly huge.

So discuss, and maybe even help me understand what makes IVs so great. Frankly, I don't think they're worth my time.

 

[DEL337ED]

The only IVs that must be exact are 31 HP (for 101 Subs for Pokemon with base 100 HP) and speed (to hit the appropriate speed numbers).

The difference between a 10 IV and 31 IV attack stat is usually no more than a few %. IMO, getting perfect speed and a decent attack stat (25+) is the only trouble worth going for.

Sometimes defenses matter, but not on things like...a lonely Electivire. It's not gonna survive an EQ from anything strong anyways.

 

[Tinnacious]

My Ludicolo had 20 in SpAtk, I thought it would be fine, I mean, what's 11 gonna do. Well, I was wrong, after losing battles where I BARELY kill the opponents, or 3HKO Gyarados, who I should be 2HKO-ing with Grass Knot, I decided that 31 was the only way to go.

IVs don't matter when and only when it's 28. 4 Points difference don't matter.

 

[TSPhoenix]

Basically anything 28+ is good, unless you need a 31IV for a specific reason its typically good enough with something 28+. Examples would be 31HP for a 404HP for subs and and 31 Speed.

 

[OldSchoolNub]

Have you ever just about killed an opponent's pokemon, only to have it kill you in return?


There's your answer.

 

[General Tso]

Actually, 26+ is best because IV's only differ 1% in damage every 6 IV's (I.e. 31 will do 1% more than 25)

 

[Meultima]

You have to also take the pokemon's base stat and the amount of EVs you're willing to pump that stat with, mind. Like, say, Giratina. 504 HP at max. So even at 0 IVs it only makes, what, a paltry point percentage difference?

 

[wDro]

My Ludicolo had 20 in SpAtk, I thought it would be fine, I mean, what's 11 gonna do. Well, I was wrong, after losing battles where I BARELY kill the opponents, or 3HKO Gyarados, who I should be 2HKO-ing with Grass Knot, I decided that 31 was the only way to go.

IVs don't matter when and only when it's 28. 4 Points difference don't matter.

But you can argue that it was just due to bad luck. Because according to the damage formula, there's a random 85% to 100% range when damage is calculated. It's possible that your pokemon was only doing 90% of its potential, while if your pokemon has 31 in sp. atk, it would only require to do 89% or so.

In fact, the higher the stat is, the more insignificant IVs are. Say you have an IV of 21 in special attack and the maximum achievable number is 359. So now you have 349 special attack. That's only 2.8% lower than 359, this can be compensated by the random number generation when damage is calculated and by having an opponent with less than perfect sp. def IV.

On the other hand, if the max possible stat is 259 and you only have 249 (IV is still 21), the difference in power will be 3.9%. So if the stat is lower, try to go for a higher IV.

 

[Seph]

Are IV's really worth the effort?
Yes, they are.

How many times have you battled and had an opposing pokemon live at 1-3% as you painfully watch them counter attack and KO your pokemon? It's happened to me plenty of times. Breeding for IV's allows this to occur less often than a pokemon with say a 10 attack IV stat. I would never, under any circumstance, use something with a 14 attack IV like the thread creator stated he would.

For a sweeper, I would never use anything but a 31 speed IV because it's painful having to switch out of a mirror match or just lose instead of having a 50/50 chance. Without that 31, you're basically throwing away your chance of beating something with an equivalent base speed. (unless you've bred for HP, which is completely different) As for the attack stat itself, I wouldn't ever use anything under a 27. You want to deal as much damage with a sweeper as possible. By using something with an inferior attack IV, you basically are eliminating your chance of killing something as well as your chance of winning. The same thing applies to walls except visa versa for attack/speed and defenses.

 

[metroidmania]

I'm convinced that a perfect IV is good for 101 Subs on base 100 Pokemon, and for the "magic speed" numbers.

I think that that difference between almost beating an opponent's Pokemon and beating it solely based on IVs is too rare to make it a case.
(But in the event that it does happen, I must admit that it would make me feel like the effort put into IVs was not wasted.)

 

[Syn]

i like having 31 speed for my sweepers cuz i hate being outsped by the same pokemon

 

[Fishin]

How many times have you battled and had an opposing pokemon live at 1-3% as you painfully watch them counter attack and KO your pokemon? It's happened to me plenty of times. Breeding for IV's allows this to occur less often than a pokemon with say a 10 attack IV stat.

This sums up my feelings.

Of course, if you're asking if it's just worth the trouble, hacking is a lot easier to do. Some people on other websites consider this heresy, though.

 

[Lee]

The reason I spend so much time breeding ties directly in with EV's. Any self-respecting Pokemon player will tell you that EV's are definately worth it.

For example, lets say I've bred an Electivire and I want to hit the magic speed number of 270. With a 31 IV, that will require an investment of 176 EV's. Lets say I have a 14 speed IV (since that's the IV you said would be acceptable for Heracross). In order to hit 270 with this IV, I will need to use a whopping 244 EVs.

By poor breeding, I have effectively robbed myself of 68 EVs. Those EV's should have went into Special Attack to ensure the OHKO on Skarmory. Now Thunderbolt will fail to OHKO and Electivire will be Whirlwinded away, losing his Motor Drive boost and potentially costing me the match in the long run.

That's a long winded example, but lets say a Pokemon has 20 in each IV. Overall he could lose as much as 264 EVs to make up for the defecit.

Also, you're asking on a notoroiusly competitive site. I'm sure we'd all do anything within the rules to give ourselves the upper hand.

 

[ekans dilos]

I think most everything has been said. Basically, I try to get at least one or two 30-31s on needed stats (mainly speed and HP), but 26+ is more than acceptable. Breeding for quad/quintuple 31s is, in my opinion, utterly pointless. If you care that much about a single pokemon's IVs (which won't affect outcomes much if at all)... there are places for people like you :/ In your example though you said 14 on a Heracross... 14 is just plain not enough. Say you're facing a tankish poke with 31 in HP and defense and you have 14 attack, you will see the difference. I agree that it can be tedious and a waste of time to breed. But basically, breed maybe 1 or 2 boxes, pick the best one, call it a day. Also, once you have a single "good" IV pokemon, you can more or less trade to fill in the rest. I've bred about 4 pokes, the rest i've used those to trade for.

Some people do obsess a bit too much over IVs, but they ARE important, ignore them at your own risk (and performance in battle)

 

[teekay]

If the time you spend on it is worth it to win more, great. Spend the time.

If it's not worth it to you, great. Don't spend the time.

My personal attitude is that simulators are there for intense competition and you can use all the perfect IVs you want. I simply don't have the time/patience to get perfect IVs, so I get them perfect on the stats I most need them for and I accept the fact that I may lose sometimes due to inferior IVs. You simply have to decide what's important to you.

 

[Blastotle]

I have to agree with the TC here. Sure it's ideal to breed a brand new pokemon, throw its stats into an IV calculator and go "OH MY GOD IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH" then throw it out for a new pokemon, but trying to breed for acceptable IVs for more than one stat is absolutely maddening, especially when you want proper natures, traits or even gender too. In my opinion if you're gonna IV anything go for Speed, since a difference of 1 point will make all the difference, but aside from that don't waste hours of your life trying to create the perfect pokemon.

Just my two cents.

 

[Maxwell]

nature and speed IV is worth more than other IVs, generally.

 

[wDro]

Also keep in mind that, from my observation in the trade forum, most well bred pokemon DON'T have perfect defenses. This should compensate for not having perfect attack, if you are lazy like me. So if 27+ is what people usually go for, I would say 25+ or even 22+ is good for me (yes, for me only).

Finally, I agree with what most people said. Speed is the most important stat for sweepers. You have to make sure it has enough IVs to reach the so-called 'magic numbers' without sacrificing a lot of EVs.

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

Everyone has covered this question pretty well, and what I would like to add is this:

Speed is the most important. If you and your opponent have a CS Heracross and you have a 30 IV in speed, you are pretty much finished. Defenses are important but not exactly vital to have a 31 IV. For example, My Gliscor has a 28 in HP and a 26 in Def. Could I do better? Absolutely, but I have a 30 Sp. Def, a 26 Attack and like a 12 Speed. I see no real need in outrunning people and now I can eat Focus Blasts from Gengar for breakfast.

Just remember that only THREE of your IV's come from parents, so the other three are completely random.

 

[Synecdoche]

Actually, 26+ is best because IV's only differ 1% in damage every 6 IV's (I.e. 31 will do 1% more than 25)

For Blissey and many other Huge-HP/Lower Defenses pokemon (Vaporeon, Drifblim, Wailord come to mind). 6 IVs in defense could mean a lot lot more than for say, a Shuckle. Likewise in Reverse: A Shuckle with a 10 IV in HP and double 31's Def/Sp.Def is ultimately far worse than a Shuckle with 26 HP and 15 in both Defenses.

Just to be a nitpick, but yeah, you can't really argue against NOT having 31 speed on sweepers and trying to shore up a pokemon's weaknesses with good IV breeding (especially when normal builds don't devote anything to the stat)

Example: (A Tangrowth with 27 IV in Sp.Def will be taking a Magnezone's Thunderbolts far better than one with 15 Sp.Def because it "doesn't need" SpDef). Factoid: 31 Sp.Def 252HP/0Sp.Def (standard) Tangrowth takes a surprising avg 40% from Magnezone's TBolt. Missing 16 points of Sp.Def due to less than perfect breeding thusly results in an extra average dmg to 45%, numerically this equates a shift from 149-175 to 168-198.

The more you know!

 

[Irizz]

Usually when I'm breeding for a sweeper I go with a 27+ in Atk/SAtk and no less than 31 in Spd. Regarding tanks a 31 in HP is a must. 27+ in the defenses.

 

[YYZ]

If there is one thing I hate about the Pokemon games, it's IVs. I haven't finished diamond yet so I'm just playing teams on shoddy battle (which thankfully everyone uses all 31 IV pokeys and levels the playing field), but I'm almost afraid to finish the game and open up wifi. Having to breed egg moves (and make sure the daycare doesn't stupidly erase them), natures, abilities and sometimes gender should be enough for a portable game where you compete for fun. I've got school, a job and tennis to worry about, IVs be damned!

I hate hacking but it seems like I'll have to invest in an AR to boost up some IVs so I can stand a chance. Hopefully it won't screw up my game.

 

[Fiyaaaah!]

One nice thing about IV's is that once you've already bred/found a 31 for a particular stat in a particular egg group, it's not much trouble to get that stat again when you decide to breed any other Pokemon that shares an egg group with it. You can also use chain breeding to spread good IV's so that you can get good stats in any egg group whenever you need them.

 

[Hikari aka H]

on the other side every single normal Gamer avoids playing with you cuz they know you are cheating.
IVs give you the advantage. in mirrormatches IVs make the difference.

 

[TechnoCore]

on the other side every single normal Gamer avoids playing with you cuz they know you are cheating.
IVs give you the advantage. in mirrormatches IVs make the difference.

How often in this game is there ever a true mirror match or even close to one?


It's not too hard for someone to trade for pokemon with near perfect IVs, so they playing field is basically even vs a hacker.