Austrian man fathers his own grandchildren

[umbarsc]

I agree with Akuchi's first comment. Although truthfully, I am shocked that I am not more shocked than I am...

I don't agree with her second comment, the quote, however. A lot of that was heavily subjective and based around the idea of an abusive husband/drunken men which I really disagree with, but eh let's not turn this into a feminist debate.

 

[obi]

It's more to do with the way our society treats women.. this is merely an extreme example of it.

This has nothing to do with how our society treats women and everything to do with some people ignoring society completely. The incest taboo is one of the strongest (and most universal) of all taboos. If a person is willing to overcome that, they have already shown a disregard for societal mores and is thus not likely to be influenced either way by 'society'. I honestly don't see how you draw the conclusion that it's a societal failing with regard to gender equality, except that the 'primary' victim is female.

If you really want to have a sexism debate, I'd be willing to do so, but in another thread.

 

[QuickDraw]

well, this is a pretty sad story and those people are probably horribly and irreversibly scarred. i do agree that nobody should really be shocked by this. it isn't any worse than other things that the fucked up people of the world have done before


on a side note, this guy definitely looks like a crazy person:

 

[Dark Arches]

This was in the paper today. Apparently the children communicated with each other using grunts and growls, and had to concentrate when they wanted to speak to other people.

 

[akuchi]

Actually, I do think this is a feminist issue, the man had previous convictions for rape and is now a suspect in the rape and murder of another woman - obviously he thought it was okay to treat women like this. I'm not denying it's an extreme example, but aye..

 

[Articuno64]

Actually, I do think this is a humanist issue, the man had previous convictions for rape and is now a suspect in the rape and murder of another person - obviously he thought it was okay to treat people like this. I'm not denying it's an extreme example, but aye..

fixed

 

[Darkflagrance]

well, this is a pretty sad story and those people are probably horribly and irreversibly scarred. i do agree that nobody should really be shocked by this. it isn't any worse than other things that the fucked up people of the world have done before

I think I read in the article that the doctors thought that the youngest kids would be probably be able to adapt somewhat to real life.

 

[MillionDaggers]

When you think about it, the averae human's disgust with interfamilial relationships is much more of an instinct as well as a taboo. Humans that are related to each other will regularly excrete similar pheremones which are meant to help avoid these kinds of incestous deviances. It was Mother Nature's guiding hand in ensuring that the world wouldn't be populated by three eyed babies and whatnot.

If such a system was hard-drived at birth into every single human, it stands to reason that if a person were to commit such acts, they would be mentally and genetically, well, screwed up.

 

[xc_hawk]

I heard about this at my friend's house a few days ago, and honestly, I wasn't completely convinced they were even telling the truth then. Call me a softy, but I find it absolutely disgusting something like this could ever happen. I hope the kids will find at least some sort of a normal life, although thats doubtful.

 

[superhammerhead]

i heard about this a few days ago____its disgusting to no end he could do this! but what is even worse is that the ^ remianing kids (half of them probably unreversable trumatised by the fact they havent seen the light of day) now have to live with this in their face and with the fact they are inbred childen (no offense meant< just not something youd like on your life history) who will have EXTEMELY high chances of mental and phsical disorders + that some of them are nineteen< no life< no friends and no education! what a shitty start to life!

 

[Hustino]

Actually, the odds of them developing any physical or mental genetic disorders due to the incestuous relationship is roughly equal to any two random people being put together.

Everyone's under the illogical belief that incest automatically, magically leads to deformities; incest, over generations, gradually increases the chances of recessive genes that cause disorders to be expressed, which would be very dangerous and harmful. One instance of it, though, doesn't really mean anything.

But, yeah, besides that, living in the basement secluded for so many years along with the knowledge that they were born from a rape/incest relationship will most likely cause plenty of crap they'll be dealing with for the rest of their lives. Hopefully they grow to cope with what happened.

 

[venom_prince91]

I remember hearing on a news report or something that doctors believed that there was a very high chance none of the children would ever adapt to real life, and would suffer irreversable problems as a result of this sickening treatment.

And although this is a pretty sick thing, I can't help but feel I'm desensitised to it along with many others. Eventually we'll all reach a point of total insensitivity.

 

[hybrid]

I agree with most of what people have said in here. While it does sicken me to no end, it's by no means a surprise.

 

[QuickDraw]

there was another incident a few years back where a man was found guilty of keeping his 13 yr old daughter locked in a 6'x3' dog pen in the basement of their home with a small 3"x6" window with a translucent shade on it for light. the wife confessed that the man was the only person to ever have contact with the girl and that she didn't even know her daughter's name. the weirdest part was that the child was about the size and had the mental capacity of a 6 year old girl. i never will understand why anyone would want to harm a child. personally i think that grave offenses like this against children should be punished by death. there is no excuse for damaging a childs mind, not to mention their physical well being. harming a child is inexcusable and unforgivable.

 

[akuchi]

why is harming a child so much worse than harming an adult? because they're cute?

 

[X-Act]

why is harming a child so much worse than harming an adult? because they're cute?

Because children usually are less likely to recover from being harmed than adults, especially if the harm is psychological.

 

[QuickDraw]

an adult also has the ability to defend their well being, children don't.

 

[Azacin]

It was Mother Nature's guiding hand in ensuring that the world wouldn't be populated by three eyed babies and whatnot.

Thats stupid. Incest does not produce children that are physically deformed, but, it makes any problems in the genetic makeup of the parents pass on further, which widens a chance for a disease to sweep the group of people.

 

[akuchi]

an adult also has the ability to defend their well being, children don't.

Elizabeth Fritzl was eighteen when she was put into the cellar - so you're saying she had the ability to defend her well-being?

 

[Mexi-Kade]

Is no one else amazed that the mother had no idea what was going on in her own basement for 24 years? Even if she couldn't get past the secret pass coded door, didn't she find it the least bit suspicous that there was a dam pass coded door in her basement?

 

[akuchi]

Not just the mother - what about the siblings? Elizabeth had been sexually abused since the age of eleven - surely they knew something about it?

 

[hybrid]

why is harming a child so much worse than harming an adult? because they're cute?

... you're kidding, right?

 

[Dark Arches]

why is harming a child so much worse than harming an adult? because they're cute?

Why is harming a woman so much worse than harming a man? Because they have less muscle mass?

You're not paying attention to the main point of this discussion. You're allowed to get offended because of the way this guy treated a woman, but you can't make the assumption that he was a sexist or was chauvinistic and use it to argue something completely irrelevant.

 

[akuchi]

I'm not offended, I am genuinely confused as to why it's worse to do something bad to a child than something bad to an adult. Just going by personal experience..

I think it's pretty safe to say the man was a misogynistic cunt - he's previous convictions for rape, sexually abused his own daughter, went on 'sex resort' holidays to buy women, and is now being looked at for another past rape and a rape/murder - and there is no report of any crimes he's committed against men [unless you count false imprisonment for his own kids/grandkids].
Which is why I said in the first place it is a feminist issue - he was pretty much given the go ahead to do this when he was convicted of rape and let out eight months later, and when Elizabeth's accusations against her father were ignored and social services kept returning her to his care when she ran away three times as a child.

Having said that, arti's suggestion of the word 'humanist' fits perfectly too - sadly feminism seems to have negative connotations.

And I'd never say harming a woman's worse than harming a man - but I would say rape is worse than assault and the vast majority of rapes are perpetrated by men, against women.

 

[pervysenin]

And I'd never say harming a woman's worse than harming a man - but I would say rape is worse than assault and the vast majority of rapes are perpetrated by men, against women.

I must admit you're right there. I still have yet to figure out how there could be a rape against a man by a woman 0_o