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Bagon (Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Blackhawk11, Oct 27, 2009.

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  1. Blackhawk11

    Blackhawk11 one on one

    Apr 29, 2009
    Just thought I would post what I have on Bagon so far. Teammate sections need a lot of work, especially the first two, and my set descriptions could be touched up as well.
    I'm open to any advice.

    Status: Nearly Finished
    Edit 1: Added suggestions by Heysup and ete.
    Edit 2: Added a paragraph above DD team options detailing the choice between LO and Oran. Also other minor touch-ups.
    Edit 3: Partially added Choice Band teammates (so far only Magnemite (Edit 4:) and Slowpoke). Advice on whether Choice Scarf and Choice Band should be separated would be appreciated.
    Edit 5: Added ScarfChinchou to the DD teammates and fixed a few typos>_>
    Edit 6: Thanks mtr, added your fixes.

    name: DDGon
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Fire Fang
    move 4: Brick Break
    item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

    <p>Bagon's claim to fame is quickly setting up and sweeping teams away, just like its menacing evolution, Salamence, does. Bagon is a heavy hitter and, after one Speed boost, can outrun every unboosted Pokemon in the metagame due to what is effectively a Speed stat of 21. Outrage is extremely hard for most Pokemon to handle, and is a useful move for sweeping late game. Fire Fang forms a perfect Little Cup coverage combination with Outrage, while Brick Break gives Bagon a stronger option against Aron and Shieldon.</p>

    <p>There are two ways that this set can function. The first is with an Oran Berry. With the given EV spread, Bagon has 21 HP, which means Oran Berry heals just under 50% of its health. When holding an Oran Berry, Bagon can be less conservative and use Dragon Dance without too much fear of being KOed, which aids in sweeping late game. Bagon also works well midgame using a Life Orb. With the 1.3x boost given by the item, Bagon is capable of OHKOing an offensive Gligar after one Dragon Dance. Without Life Orb, Gligar has a good chance of surviving and hitting Bagon back with STAB Earthquake. When using a Life Orb, Bagon should have an HP IV of 0, giving it 19 HP. This means that Life Orb recoil will be rounded down to 1 damage per turn, whereas it will be taking 2 damage per turn if its HP is 20 or above.</p>

    <p>Bagon appreciates help setting up. Abra, Bronzor, and Magnemite can all effectively set up dual screens for Bagon to set up behind, and Abra can take that a step farther by also using Encore to force the opponent or repeat a worthless move. Magnemite can trap and KO Steel-types such as Bronzor, Aron, and other Magnemite, who threaten to get in the way of Bagon's Outrage. Taillow makes a good partner for Bagon because it lures out the foes Steel-types, giving Bagon a heads up as to what counters the opponent has. Another lure is to use a Pokemon holding a Choice Scarf that can scout for priority attacks. Scarf Chinchou is a good partner thanks to its typing, which allows it to lure most priority that will destroy Bagon, as well as its Speed, which allows it to outspeed all unboosted Pokemon thanks to its item. Stealth Rock support is almost a necessity for Bagon, especially when it isn't holding Life Orb, because entry hazard damage will drop both Munchlax and Wynaut within range to be OHKOed by Outrage.</p>

    name: ChoiceGon
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Fire Fang
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Naive / Naughty
    evs: 236 Atk / 40 Def / 36 SpA / 196 Spe

    <p>The list of Pokemon in Little Cup who can survive a Choice Band Outrage from Bagon is extremely short, and most of the Pokemon on it need a positive nature and maximum EVs in HP and Defense. The few Pokemon who can withstand this onslaught are easily disposed of by Bagon's supporting moves. Fire Fang gets Bronzor, while Brick Break hits Aron for a guaranteed OHKO. Hidden Power Ice makes short work of Gligar thanks to a Naive or Naughty nature and 36 Special Attack EVs.</p>

    <p>On the other hand, the list of Pokemon in Little Cup who can outspeed a Choice Band Bagon is rather lengthy, due to a maximum Speed (assuming a Speed boosting nature) of 15. Because of this lack of Speed, Bagon really appreciates having paralysis spread around by its team members. Magnemite can do this effectively, because it resists the Ice- and Dragon-type attacks that plague Bagon. Not only can Magnemite spread paralysis, but it can also trap and kill opposing Steel-types that could otherwise switch in on a choice-locked Outrage. Another potential paralysis-spreading partner is Slowpoke, who is also capable of switching into most Ice-type attacks.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>In order for Bagon to sweep a team with Outrage, it needs to have all Steel-types removed from its path. Magnemite can trap and KO Steel-types while absorbing Ice- and Dragon-type attacks that plague Bagon. Most Bagon sets require Stealth Rock to be in play in order to turn 2KOs into OHKOs. Dedicated Stealth Rock users such as Gligar and Kabuto work great in tandem with Bagon, due to their ability to reliably lay down Stealth Rock. An interesting option to use with Bagon is Trick Room. Because of Bagon's low Speed stat, which can go as low as 9, it can effectively function under Trick Room. Common and effective users include Porygon, Slowpoke, and Bronzor.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Most of Bagon's physical offensive movepool has already been listed, however Bagon does have a wide selection of special attacks that could be formed into a set. Unfortunately, an all-special set is outclassed by Dratini, and the surprise value doesn't make up for it. Bagon doesn't have many support moves to mention. One that is useful enough too note is Roar. Bagon can phaze opponents with Roar and force them to take entry hazard damage upon returning, but it doesn't have the bulk to do this reliably. Dragon Claw is a useful option on either set to avoid being locked into Outrage, but the decrease in power is just too high for it to be beneficial. Bagon's ability, Rock Head, makes Double Edge appear to be a good move, but it will never be more useful than STAB Dragon Claw and therefore should not be used.</p>


    <p>Bagon is lucky enough to have its Speed max out after only 196 EVs. This gives it enough leftover EVs, after maximizing Attack, to either increase HP by one point or increase both Defense and Special Defense by one point each. Usually opting to increase both defenses is the better option, but a spread of 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe is acceptable on the sets lacking Hidden Power Ice and Life Orb. Bagon needs an 40 EVs in Defense whenever it is using Hidden Power Ice due to the necesity of an imperfect IV; fortunately this is never an issue, as Bagon always has room for the extra EVs.</p>


    <p>Salamence dominates the standard metagame, but in Little Cup, its pre-evolution, Bagon, is slightly less of a centralizing force. Even though Bagon is very useful, it doesn't have the Speed that its final stage does, and that greatly hinders its sweeping capabilies. To sweep teams, Bagon needs at least one, but ideally two or more, Dragon Dances under its belt, which can be difficult to set up in such a fast paced metagame. Bagon has to compete for its role as Dragon Dance sweeper with Dratini, who has Extremespeed in its arsenal, as well as better Special Defense and a much more useful ability. However, Bagon has a higher Attack stat, which gives it an edge when attempting to OHKO bulky Pokemon such as Munchlax and Wynaut.</p>


    <p>The toughest part about countering Bagon is figuring out what set it's running. Dragon Dance Bagon has to be stopped before it sets up, or else it will only be able to be brought down by Scarf users. If you let it get two in, you're going to have to sacrifice a Pokemon and try to revenge kill with a priority attack. Houndour makes a great revenge killer with STAB Sucker Punch, but it's a prediction game, as Bagon can easily stall your Sucker Punch with Dragon Dance. Choice Band Swinub does 85.7% - 104.7% with Ice Shard, but can't switch in on any of Bagon's attacks. Just about anything else will have to wait until Bagon has taken enough LO recoil to KO.</p>

    <p>When holding Choice Band, Bagon is much easier to counter. With a maximum of 15 Speed, anything with a positive nature and base 55 Speed or more can easily revenge kill, although switching into an STAB Outrage coming off of 25 Attack is not a feat of which many Pokemon can boast. Aron is one of the few Pokemon who can survive two Adamant Choice Band Outrages, which is necessary for it to be able to attack back. Impish Gligar with max Defense and HP can take one Outrage, then outrun and do an average of 67% back with Earthquake. If Bagon is Scarfed, it's best to revenge kill it with a Scarfer of your own. Bagon will rarely exceed 21 Speed, so aim to outspeed it and KO with a powerful attack. Any gimmick special set is completely walled by Munchlax.</p>
  2. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    Just a few random things for the sets.

    Dragon Dance:

    Oran Berry should definitely be the first option. With an Adamant nature, there really is nothing that Bagon doesn't OHKO with Outrage or Dragon Claw / its other moves.

    Team options:

    Abra is a baller, helping with DS Encore. Bronzor helps in a similar way, with DS and Stealth Rock. Magnemite can DS and Explode. Magnemite and Bronzor resist Dragon and Ice Attacks as a bonus as well. A more offensive Magnemite can also take out Bronzor for Bagon, while Taillow can lure it in.

    Physical Choice:

    Bagon needs Naive/Naughty + 36 SpA EVs to OHKO GLigar with HP Ice. So I'd definitely slash and mention that.

    Special Choice:

    Immediately remove this! Dratini outclasses 150% of the time. It is barely viable on Dratini, it won't be viable on Bagon.

    I'll help with TO's later.
  3. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 7, 2007
    I guess Bagon does have Hydro Pump over Dratini for the special choice set.. but that's only enough to get it a mention in OO.

    LOs main attraction on the first set will be getting a clean 1KO on things like non highly defensive Gligar (100% - 120% to 156 HP variants with LO and a DD, even 0/0 variants can take a +1 non LO 97.44% of the time). Dragon Claw should not replace Outrage, you lose too much power. Even things like offensive Staryu (30/55 defences) have a decent chance to survive +1 Dragon Claw, so OO imo.
  4. Blackhawk11

    Blackhawk11 one on one

    Apr 29, 2009
    Yeah I wasn't to sure about the special set, at first I didn't have it, but then I went to LCF and saw that it was in Bagon's analysis there, so I decided to add it. To OO it is.

    I edited a bit, but I'll be back later today with the majority of the suggestions.
  5. Blackhawk11

    Blackhawk11 one on one

    Apr 29, 2009
    EDIT: sorry for bumping this, I was glancing over it and I noticed a typo in the op. I thought I was editing it, but I guess I quoted >_> stupid iPod screen. I'll try to make some better changes to warrant a bump.
  6. mtr


    Jan 31, 2009
    Not bad, just my edits. It's mostly a grammar check since I'm not too great at Little Cup.
  7. Dubulous

    Dubulous I look just like Buddy Holly.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 9, 2009
    Blackhawk11 has informed me that he is no longer working on this analysis. As such, I'm locking this and putting it back up for claim.
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