Ladder Balanced Hackmons

[HedgeKnight]

Would a magic bounce shedinja with a focus sash and shell smash work? People would assume it was sturdy,allowing you at least two shell smashes before they could actually kill it.

 

[Uselesscrab]

I use Magic Bounce Shedinja, but everyone makes fun of me for it when I battle with it. The problem is that if you switch into a status move, your gimmick is revealed immediately; if you switch into an attack, people will see the Focus Sash and suspect a non-Sturdy ability. It's really fun to use, true, and that's why I use it often, but I'm not sure it's the most practical idea.

 

[Kit Kasai]

The problem with it is, it's really easy to see through, and shedinja isn't strong enough to sweep even with a ss.

Even if you set up multiple ss, it gets killed by priority.

 

[Rumors]

Focus Sash Sheddy also pretty much auto-loses to any multi-hitting moves. For example, once people learn we've figured out a dozen counters to Refrige Kyu-B, we might start seeing the Skill Link variant again.

 

[Toraen]

Dedicating 2-3 team members for a strategy that gets countered by Unaware, Haze, and Heart Swap sounds like an awful idea though. If the guy who had the Imposter had an Unaware or a Prankster with the latter two moves then he would have been the one laughing. Especially Heart Swap with Baton Pass.

Actually, an Unaware wouldn't be able to stand up to a stored power with that many boosts behind it (especially after the hazards), even if the sweeper wasn't Mold Breaker, unless it was a dark type. The BP of Stored Power (which Unaware won't reduce) with +6 across the board is 860, and not even +SDef Unaware Cress can survive normal Mewtwo's Stored Power at that point (to say nothing of Mega-Ytwo). The strategy would beat most pranksters too if a Prankster Copycat/Taunt sweeper was used instead of Mold Breaker or the Mold Breaker used Priority moves. Druides was probably just banking on most running Topsy Turvy now instead of Heart Swap/Haze though Actually we never saw the rest of the Mewtwo's set.

Of course, the key to beating this strategy is to not fall into the trap, rather than trying to salvage after the opponent has set up to +6 everything and full hazards. Imposter shouldn't ever be your only check to a boosting steel type, just because Magnet Pull exists. Even outside of this rather gimmicky setup, Magnet Pull Steels are a good anti-Imposter lure.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Just had an idea...does Ion Deluge work if the opponent has Refrigerate/Pixilate/Aerilate? Because if so, a Prankster Ion Deluge ground-type could effectively wall all of these sets. I haven't seen any of them carrying Water or Grass coverage moves, either. The main problem is the fact that ExtremeSpeed is higher priority than Prankster moves. Maybe a resist could set up Ion Deluge and switch to a ground-type?

 

[Mista Rob]

Just had an idea...does Ion Deluge work if the opponent has Refrigerate/Pixilate/Aerilate? Because if so, a Prankster Ion Deluge ground-type could effectively wall all of these sets. I haven't seen any of them carrying Water or Grass coverage moves, either. The main problem is the fact that ExtremeSpeed is higher priority than Prankster moves. Maybe a resist could set up Ion Deluge and switch to a ground-type?

No it does not, the abilities are not affected by Ion Deluge. Xerns Boomburst still clean OHKOd the Groudon after ion deluge in our test.

 

[Rumors]

Actually, an Unaware wouldn't be able to stand up to a stored power with that many boosts behind it (especially after the hazards), even if the sweeper wasn't Mold Breaker, unless it was a dark type. The BP of Stored Power (which Unaware won't reduce) with +6 across the board is 860, and not even +SDef Unaware Cress can survive normal Mewtwo's Stored Power at that point (to say nothing of Mega-Ytwo). The strategy would beat most pranksters too if a Prankster Copycat/Taunt sweeper was used instead of Mold Breaker or the Mold Breaker used Priority moves. Druides was probably just banking on most running Topsy Turvy now instead of Heart Swap/Haze though Actually we never saw the rest of the Mewtwo's set.

Of course, the key to beating this strategy is to not fall into the trap, rather than trying to salvage after the opponent has set up to +6 everything and full hazards. Imposter shouldn't ever be your only check to a boosting steel type, just because Magnet Pull exists. Even outside of this rather gimmicky setup, Magnet Pull Steels are a good anti-Imposter lure.

Hence Unaware Umbreon for the win (yes, I have run that before and it's fun and it works). Or any Prankster after the sacrificial switch since 99% of all special psychic sweepers do not run priority.

Or just not running Imposter. Imposter is, in my experience, a pretty iffy ability against people who know what they're doing (Imposter traps, Imposter immunes, teams that counter themselves, and the whole rest of that laundry list). Though it's still probably the best ability at stomping less experienced players.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Looking at that replay with the Magnet Pull Mega Mawile, I think that using Dragon Tail would have been a better option. Mawile is immune to it, and it can force out the Imposter. If an Imposter switches in, then it will become immune to Dragon Tail, and will still be trapped, and you will be able to switch to another Fairy with Magnet Pull to start setting up.

EDIT: On top of that, I would just plan out for when that imposter would struggle itself to death and pass to the sweeper on the turn it kills itself, rather than that infinite PP gimmick. Once an imposter switches in, it has 24-25 turns before it kills itself with struggle. In that time, you can boost up to +6 in all 7 stats, set up a Sub and an Ingrain, use Baton Pass twice, and set up enough hazards to secure a OHKO on any Unaware 'mon. You don't need any more time then that.

I forget if Heart Swap goes through subs, but if not, the only things that threaten your sweeper after all that is Prankster Parish Song/D-Bond, the latter of which can potentially be played around.

 

[Redless]

Imposter is, in my experience, a pretty iffy ability against people who know what they're doing (Imposter traps, Imposter immunes, teams that counter themselves, and the whole rest of that laundry list). Though it's still probably the best ability at stomping less experienced players.

In my experience, imposter can be a very viable ability even at higher levels of play. While it no longer turns foolish sweepers against their trainers, Chansey is still able to work as a pivot, force sweepers out, and provide a win condition against stall teams (and some offense) once the counters are out of the picture.

 

[Uselesscrab]

No it does not, the abilities are not affected by Ion Deluge. Xerns Boomburst still clean OHKOd the Groudon after ion deluge in our test.

Oh well, thanks for testing.

 

[Adrian Marin]

What makes imposter so great in higher levels of play is its ability to scout movesets, this is necessary to react against threats with little risk of the unknown.

 

[Kit Kasai]

What makes imposter so great in higher levels of play is its ability to scout movesets, this is necessary to react against threats with little risk of the unknown.

Which is one reason I like running identical Pokemon on the same team, because it's even more difficult to predict. It gets even crazier with illusion. Speaking of illusion, I love it when noobs who don't know how illusion or imposter work rage at me for "hacking" when their imposter doesn't work. Come on guys. It's hackmons. :P

 

[Rumors]

In my experience, imposter can be a very viable ability even at higher levels of play. While it no longer turns foolish sweepers against their trainers, Chansey is still able to work as a pivot, force sweepers out, and provide a win condition against stall teams (and some offense) once the counters are out of the picture.

Maybe it's just how I've been building my real teams, but lately Imposters tend to just force me and my opponent into a switch stall war where we could easily both have all six Pokemon and most of our PP by turn 100. Though that might also be partly Sheddy + Defog's fault too since those same teams had all three.

Of course, I could fix that by just dropping an Imposter-immune Mold Breaker whatever on the team.

 

[Kit Kasai]

I'm working on a new set right now and need some feed back on it:

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock

The goal of this set is to be a steel type trapper, because my team centers around cube, which is walled by steel types. The gimmick of this set you could say, is that gyarados gains mold breaker when it mega evolves. This is useful for pokemon like heatran and scizor, which usually carry immunity abilities.

The other two moves are pretty much fillers, really. Moldy pursuit can catch shedinjas... and stealth rock... well I wasn't really sure what to put in the last slot so I thought might as well put moldy stealth rock.

 

[Uselesscrab]

I like the idea, but when you mega evolve, you can't go back to normal. So you basically get to trap steel types exactly once, and when you mega evolve, then they get to switch out.

 

[Kit Kasai]

I like the idea, but when you mega evolve, you can't go back to normal. So you basically get to trap steel types exactly once, and when you mega evolve, then they get to switch out.

Well the goal is to one shot them

 

[Toraen]

Taunt is a viable option over stealth rock, since that can actually help beat things that avoid a OHKO (also quite useful against Magic Bounce once you've mega evolved).

As for your set as provided, some calcs:

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 380-448 (98.4 - 116%)
Any Heatran lacking a defense boosting nature is OHKO'd, and even +Def is KO'd most of the time (any prior damage obviously guarantees the KO). Good since Heatran is the best cube resist (the only other 4x resists are basically unplayable). You can gamble a bit and not mega on Heatran as well, since regular Gyarados still has a good shot at OHKOing neutral defense Heatran. If Heatran's running a speed boosting nature though, it can outspeed and U-turn/Volt Switch/Parting Shot/Baton Pass out (or just have prankster for the latter two - not much to be done about that).

252 Atk (Jolly) Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 344-408 (89.1 - 105.6%)
Being slower than +Speed Heatran is a pretty big issue here, so you may want Jolly on Gyarados just to ensure you trap non-prankster Heatran. You'll at least still horribly maim a +Def variant (and you've still got a 31.25% chance to OHKO with no prior damage). Even at minimum damage against a healthy Heatran though, you can finish it with Pursuit if it didn't volt/turn out after EQ. If your team can get hazards down reliably (or otherwise soften up cube's counters), I'd really recommend Jolly over Adamant.

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron: 190-224 (55.2 - 65.1%)
Ok, you never had a shot at OHKOing Mega Aggron with an unboosted physical move. It's a clean 2hko on any variant, but MAggron can probably phaze you out (or just switch after your mega).

There is one other poke that can use this set though...

252 SpA Mega Ampharos Eruption (150) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Aggron: 356-420 (103.4 - 122%)
Since you are faster before Mega Evolving, you can just Roast Mega Aggron for a guaranteed OHKO. If you're worried about taking damage as you switch in, Modest Blue Flare is still pretty close to a guaranteed OHKO. No hope of outspeeding Heatran though.

 

[Mista Rob]

I'm working on a new set right now and need some feed back on it:

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock

The goal of this set is to be a steel type trapper, because my team centers around cube, which is walled by steel types. The gimmick of this set you could say, is that gyarados gains mold breaker when it mega evolves. This is useful for pokemon like heatran and scizor, which usually carry immunity abilities.

The other two moves are pretty much fillers, really. Moldy pursuit can catch shedinjas... and stealth rock... well I wasn't really sure what to put in the last slot so I thought might as well put moldy stealth rock.

I like the idea as well. However, keep in mind you will not be one shotting more bulky steels such as mega aggro and registeel anytime soon, and registeel (not sure about mega aggro) usually carries parting shot. Thats something that this set will have to deal with, however the way it destroys tran and zor makes up for it I think. I feel like pursuit is not necessary, if shed has not switched in prior to Mevolving it will not expect MB and thus will not switch. Crunch i think would be a better option to hit giratina harder. Also, wouldnt jolly nature be better to outspeed heatran with parting shot? Not sure if its necessary, cant remember trans base speed atm. Overall though, i think its a very good and creative way to get rid of steels, with not much room for improvement (imo), good luck testing it. Hope I helped.

Edit: Ninjad by Toraen. Sorry for the redundant post, my bad.

 

[Kit Kasai]

As to aggron mega, I don't have to worry about it, my cube set can cleanly ko non prankster variants.

I think this set is pretty good at taking care of the sets it was meant to take care of (heatran and scizor).

Registeel is a pain, but I have other pokes that can deal with it. And cube can kinda manage to power through it if it doesn't have prankster. Or entrainment/a skill nullifying move (damn you rob ;P)

Same goes for aegislash.

Also, when is this parental bond ban happening?

 

[Rumors]

A few other relevant steel types...

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 280-330 (83.8 - 98.8%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 264-312 (81.4 - 96.2%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flash Fire Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flash Fire Ferrothorn: 90-106 (25.5 - 30.1%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flash Fire Mega Scizor: 85-101 (24.7 - 29.3%)

I didn't check non-FF Ferro and Scizor because those are obvious OHKOs. But mind, if Ferro isn't FF then there's a very high chance it'll be Prankster. And Prankster Ferro often carries moves like Spore, Sub, Baton Pass, and Destiny Bond, which this Gyarados loathes. It also needs residual damage (or a crit) to OHKO positive Skarm and Aegislash.

Also worth pointing out that FF Skarm, though very rare, walls the set completely.

 

[Kit Kasai]

A few other relevant steel types...

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 280-330 (83.8 - 98.8%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 264-312 (81.4 - 96.2%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flash Fire Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flash Fire Ferrothorn: 90-106 (25.5 - 30.1%)

252+ Atk Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flash Fire Mega Scizor: 85-101 (24.7 - 29.3%)

I didn't check non-FF Ferro and Scizor because those are obvious OHKOs. But mind, if Ferro isn't FF then there's a very high chance it'll be Prankster. And Prankster Ferro often carries moves like Spore, Sub, Baton Pass, and Destiny Bond, which this Gyarados loathes. It also needs residual damage (or a crit) to OHKO positive Skarm and Aegislash.

Also worth pointing out that FF Skarm, though very rare, walls the set completely.

FF is irrelevant because gyara gains mold breaker when it mega evos (that's the point of this set)

 

[Rumors]

Right, forgot about that.

 

[Hollymon]

Yes Parental Bond is just too good. It breaks substitutes and can be used with virtually any move for massive power. Only mega-kangaskhan should be allowed it. Also, is there any way to get rid of boosts from pokemon behind a sub?

 

[Arcticblast]

Heart Swap, Haze and Roar/Whirlwind all bypass Substitute.