ORAS OU Balanced in Sand

Hyper Zergling

Hyper Zergling

So more than a year after my first team for gen VI, I've been using an improved version of my old team. I've been fairly successful with this team so far, but I have lost a few, although I think my losses were largely due to poor decision making. Regardless, I'd like to see if anyone can point out any glaring weaknesses that can be patched up with adjustments.

TEAM COMPOSITION

DETAILS

Gyarados

@ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Gyarados is the latest addition to this team, although I will discuss him first. While deciding what my team still needed, I looked at the time five primary threats in the metagame: Mega Altaria, Clefable, Keldeo, Landorus, and Mega Metagross. Of those five, Landorus is the only one the rest of this team does not have an answer to. As Gyarados is a good Landorus check, I decided to use one. Gyarados also checks some other offensive threats such as Weavile and Mamoswine. As I already have a mega evolution, I settled on using defensive Gyarados, since I simply needed another Pokemon that can switch into attacks. Gyarados also comes with the bonus of Intimidate, which can help ease the pressure off Hippowdon, who is my main physical wall. I chose Roar over Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail for a number of reasons. As I do have a hazard setter, Celebi, a phazing move is optimal to build up damage. Phazing also deals with some set-up sweepers as well, removing accumulated boosts, provided Gyarados can afford to take a hit. Roar can also be used for scouting in that if Gyarados is in a position that would "force" a switch, I can see what my opponent intends to switch in before that very Pokemon gets roared away. I personally prefer Roar over Dragon Tail, as I absolutely despise Substitute. Against hyper-offensive teams, I sometimes lead with Gyarados to see if I can Intimidate my opponent's lead.

Charizard

@ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

I have always used Mega Charizard Y since the start of X/Y, as it is an amazing wallbreaker. Whatever wall the rest of my team can't break down and/or outstall, Mega Charizard Y can basically deal with. If I see a bulky hazard setter on the enemy team, I sometimes lead with Charizard, anticipating my opponent to lead with the said hazard setter.

Celebi

@ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 84 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Healing Wish

Celebi is another one of my later additions. Celebi covers a lot of what the rest of this team (besides Gyarados) has lots of trouble with...more specifically, water-types. Celebi is also an excellent status absorber, thanks to Natural Cure. I know it's bad to not run Baton Pass, because of the existence of pursuit users, but Stealth Rock and Healing Wish are very beneficial to this team. Having hazards is particularly useful, especially towards the end of the game, in order to help Excadrill secure some KOs. While I have Hippowdon, who is also capable of setting hazards, I opt to run a coverage move on him instead (which I will describe in his section). Healing Wish is absolutely necessary to restore Tyranitar to full health and relieve him of burn or poison, particularly in the event I still need him to take special hits (which I will describe in his section). Celebi is another potential lead, especially if I see a Breloom on my opponent's team.

Hippowdon

@ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Ice Fang

Hippowdon is obviously here to get the sand up for Excadrill, and is also my main physical wall. I know that a physically defensive EV spread isn't necessarily the best option in this generation, but I use Hippowdon specifically to deal with physical attackers more effectively. Ice Fang is needed to take down Landorus-T, Garchomp, Dragonite (Stealth Rock from Celebi helps break multiscale), and Mega Pinsir.

Tyranitar

@ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Payback
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

In case one sand inducer dies and sand runs out, I have a second to ensure that Excadrill can outspeed almost everything by the end of the match. Assault Vest and sand makes Tyranitar absurdly bulky on the special side, allowing him to take supereffective hits and hit back with decently powerful attacks of its own. A speed-reducing nature and 0 speed IVs ensure that Payback almost always has 100 base power, making it as strong as Stone Edge; Payback is also substantially more accurate than Stone Edge, making it a more reliable neutral STAB attack. I opted an attack-boosting nature to give Tyranitar's attacks a bit more of a punch to better-guarantee OHKOs or 2HKOs on the special attackers I have him face. Earthquake might seem like an odd coverage move, but it has proven useful in taking down Mega Diancie, which I've run into quite often. This Tyranitar absolutely hates burns and poison and is unable to recover lost health; of course, I have Celebi to heal Tyranitar and cure him of status in the event I still need him to take on a special attacker. The main reason I like this set is because of its surprise factor. Oftentimes, my opponents think it can hit Tyranitar hard with a supereffective special move, only for him to shrug it off and respond with a stronger attack.

Excadrill

@ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

As I have two sand inducers on my team, it's quite obvious that I run Sand Rush Excadrill. Early game, Excadrill can help remove entry hazards, especially Stealth Rock, which really destroys Charizard. Especially if my opponent's walls are still running rampant, I absolutely need Stealth Rock off the field in order to make sure Charizard lives long enough to break down these walls. If the walls are no longer an issue, Excadrill typically does not need to come out until the end of the game, where he can pick off whatever is left. Of course, before sending out Excadrill to sweep, I have to make sure priority users such as Azumarill, Conkeldurr, Breloom, and Talonflame (Brave Bird actually hurts, despite resist), are eliminated. The combination of Gyarados and Celebi are fully capable of handling these threats.


So here is my team, which I've been fairly successful with. Of course, it is far from perfect, so if there are any noticeable weaknesses I can "fix," it would be nice to let me know.
 
YUNG GOAT

YUNG GOAT

The team looks really strong but the payback on tyranitar looks really out of place as crunch offers a more reliable source of damage and chip damage on switch ins. Additionally putting the attack evs into health would give tyranitar more use and releive some pressure that your team has with predicting since your team has trouble with powerful unboosted mons who the rest of your team struggles to switch into. I would also suggest swapping earthquake for ice beam to kill both forms of landorus since u live scarf lando-T earthquake when at full health and you shrug off landorus earth power and the odd focus blast. Mega diancie also looks like it is handled by celebi and excadrill when played correctly and the usage stats of both forms of landorus show that they are not there to play games.
 
Repeater1947

Repeater1947

As seeing you lack a revenge killer (Excadrill isn't one when it's not under sand) given that you neither have a priority attacker nor a Scarfer, I suggest you run Choice Scarf > Assault Vest on Tyranitar. Scarf Tyranitar provides a decent revenge killer able to outrun base 115s and lower as well as having a more offensive and dedicated Pursuit trapper (imo Pursuit is kinda weak without Attack investment). It also allows you to outrun Stallbreaker Talonflame before it cripples you with a Will-o-Wisp. In addition, I'd just go run Crunch > Payback. Payback is just kinda gimmicky as doesn't hit switch-ins for double power, somewhat over-relies on the opponent to move first. Crunch serves as your secondary, more reliable STAB for when you feel Stone Edge's accuracy is shaky, and you're just better off firing Stone Edges when you require extra power. Also since I'm suggesting to run Choice Scarf, you'll be outrunning base 115s and lower as said earlier.

The next thing I suggest is to run Leftovers > Smooth Rock for Hippowdon for extra longevity. As I see that you're running a Sand + Mega Charizard-Y core, you'll be switching to Mega Charizard-Y often, and since Excadrill lacks SD therefore it won't be much of a big deal when the sandstorm runs out. You could switch to Mega Charizard-Y, then switch back to your sand inducer to replenish the sandstorm.

I consider trying out Substitute + Calm Mind Keldeo > Gyarados. I see that your team lacks a dedicated stallbreaker and I feel that you might find stall a bit annoying. Keldeo gives you a win condition against stall, setting up Substitute to block status and racking up a free turn to set up or attack, without fearing a passive wall (i.e. SubToxic Gliscor) attempting to cripple you through Toxic or T-Wave. Keldeo also allows you to take out Ferrothorn and Scizor, in order for you not to be too pressured on keeping SR off your field for Mega Charizard-Y. You still retain a Pokemon who can check the target you wanted, Landorus.

Lastly, run Thunder Wave > Healing Wish on Celebi. This allows you to cripple threats such as Tyranitar, Mega Metagross, DD Mega Charizard-X, Dragonite DD Mega Altaria, etc, some who might be fairly annoying for your team provided they were given a set-up opportunity. I'm not sure if you find Healing Wish very useful for you, I just like Thunder Wave better and it helps your team revenge kill them later.

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower / Earthquake

Keldeo-Resolute @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Substitute


TL;DR
-->

-->

-->
(SubCM)
Healing Wish --> Thunder Wave

Hope this helped, good luck. :)
 
Hyper Zergling

Hyper Zergling

YUNG GOAT said:
The team looks really strong but the payback on tyranitar looks really out of place as crunch offers a more reliable source of damage and chip damage on switch ins. Additionally putting the attack evs into health would give tyranitar more use and releive some pressure that your team has with predicting since your team has trouble with powerful unboosted mons who the rest of your team struggles to switch into. I would also suggest swapping earthquake for ice beam to kill both forms of landorus since u live scarf lando-T earthquake when at full health and you shrug off landorus earth power and the odd focus blast. Mega diancie also looks like it is handled by celebi and excadrill when played correctly and the usage stats of both forms of landorus show that they are not there to play games.
Click to expand...
Thanks for responding. I've been running Payback, because I mostly use it if I expect my opponent to stay. I use Pursuit if I expect a switch. But in the scenario where I want to hit a switch-in, I suppose Crunch would be better, so I'll give it a shot. As for Ice Beam, I never have Tyranitar facing Landorus-T, and would almost never have him face base Landorus. Seeing that the latter could happen if I lose Gyarados, I'll play around with Ice Beam to see if I ever run into that situation.



Repeater1947 said:
As seeing you lack a revenge killer (Excadrill isn't one when it's not under sand) given that you neither have a priority attacker nor a Scarfer, I suggest you run Choice Scarf > Assault Vest on Tyranitar. Scarf Tyranitar provides a decent revenge killer able to outrun base 115s and lower as well as having a more offensive and dedicated Pursuit trapper (imo Pursuit is kinda weak without Attack investment). It also allows you to outrun Stallbreaker Talonflame before it cripples you with a Will-o-Wisp. In addition, I'd just go run Crunch > Payback. Payback is just kinda gimmicky as doesn't hit switch-ins for double power, somewhat over-relies on the opponent to move first. Crunch serves as your secondary, more reliable STAB for when you feel Stone Edge's accuracy is shaky, and you're just better off firing Stone Edges when you require extra power. Also since I'm suggesting to run Choice Scarf, you'll be outrunning base 115s and lower as said earlier.
Click to expand...
Of course, I know putting a Choice Scarf on Tyranitar will warrant Crunch over Payback. I only had Payback because I intended have Tyranitar to move after the opposing Pokemon. My question is, if I completely change Tyranitar's role, won't I have a tougher time switching into special attackers, or would the defensive typing of the entire team not really make this too much of an issue?
Repeater1947 said:
The next thing I suggest is to run Leftovers > Smooth Rock for Hippowdon for extra longevity. As I see that you're running a Sand + Mega Charizard-Y core, you'll be switching to Mega Charizard-Y often, and since Excadrill lacks SD therefore it won't be much of a big deal when the sandstorm runs out. You could switch to Mega Charizard-Y, then switch back to your sand inducer to replenish the sandstorm.
Click to expand...
I've been running Smooth Rock on Hippowdon so in a late-game scenario where all of Excadrill's (especially defensive) checks have been removed, I can guarantee a long enough sandstorm for Excadrill to clean up the rest of the team. This is after Charizard Y has removed the defensive threats and I won't be bringing him out anymore. If I want to guarantee Excadrill's late-game sweep, is somewhat extending Hippowdon's longevity really worth it?
Repeater1947 said:
I consider trying out Substitute + Calm Mind Keldeo > Gyarados. I see that your team lacks a dedicated stallbreaker and I feel that you might find stall a bit annoying. Keldeo gives you a win condition against stall, setting up Substitute to block status and racking up a free turn to set up or attack, without fearing a passive wall (i.e. SubToxic Gliscor) attempting to cripple you through Toxic or T-Wave. Keldeo also allows you to take out Ferrothorn and Scizor, in order for you not to be too pressured on keeping SR off your field for Mega Charizard-Y. You still retain a Pokemon who can check the target you wanted, Landorus.
Click to expand...
Gyarados also helps me check Azumarill to weaken it with Intimidate so Celebi doesn't have to take as much damage on the switch-in. If I forgo Gyarados, wouldn't that make Azumarill more of a problem?
Repeater1947 said:
Lastly, run Thunder Wave > Healing Wish on Celebi. This allows you to cripple threats such as Tyranitar, Mega Metagross, DD Mega Charizard-X, Dragonite DD Mega Altaria, etc, some who might be fairly annoying for your team provided they were given a set-up opportunity. I'm not sure if you find Healing Wish very useful for you, I just like Thunder Wave better and it helps your team revenge kill them later.
Click to expand...
Healing Wish is very useful in getting Assault Vest Tyranitar back to full health so he can continue to switch in to special attackers. It also relieves him of burn and poison, both of which render him useless; since he is indeed slow, it's not too unlikely for him to get inflicted by either. Healing Wish can also cure Hippowdon of poison, in case I accidentally have him eat a Toxic. If I run Choice Scarf Tyranitar instead of Assault Vest Tyranitar, then, yes, Thunder Wave is more useful.

Regardless, thanks for the suggestions. I will play around with them and see if I get better results. Those are just some questions I had while reading your post.
 
rob.

rob.

is a Team Rater Alumnus
Repeater1947's rate was good so I'll just add to that.

You should use Jolly nature on Excadrill to speed tie with other Excadrill's to at least give yourself a chance; Adamant is preferred on Air Balloon Excadrill because of its psuedo-immunity to Ground type attacks. Using an Air Balloon and an Adamant nature is also an option since Lando-I is a huge threat to the team. You have an acute weakness to bulky Water type pokemon, especially BD Azumarill and TG Manaphy. You have two subpar water resistances that seem to be geared toward only stopping Keldeo which leaves you open to other water type threats. Gyarados may outspeed Azumarill but Gyarados cannot stop it with Waterfall and is easily KOed by Play Rough. You have the option to Roar it but Roar has negative priority so you'll be KOed by Play Rough. Celebi outspeeds Azumarill and can also eat a couple +6 Aqua Jet, but it's yummy Pursuit bait. Manaphy does much of the same to your team. I recommend dumping 108 EVs into Spe and using Baton Pass > Stealth Rock on Celebi. 108 EVs are enough to Baton Pass before Bisharp can attack, Baton Pass also bypasses Pursuit. You could give Stealth Rock to Hippowdon over Ice Fang. You should also use Leftovers on Hippowdon, the recovery it provides doesn't seem like much but its instrumental in preventing a few 2HKOes. Don't worry about Sandstorm turns since you have two inducers and an option to reset turns with Mega Charizard-Y's Drought. TG Manaphy is hard to stop for most teams and is in the same category as Lando-I, the only way to stop it without drastically altering the team is to revenge or play aggressively with Mega Charizard Y. Most don't run max Spe so don't worry about speed tying. Landorus-I doesn't have any counters and using something obscure as Spdef Gyarados as your only option of stopping it isn't a great way to teambuild. I'm not saying SpDef Gyara is bad, it can beat Lando-I in theory but at the same time it opens the team up to a bunch of other things. Here's where you could use some offense. I think you should replace Gyarados and either go with repeater said and use Keldeo or use BD Azumarill. BD Azumarill offers much needed priority as well as an incredible endgame / cleaning option. Hope these changes help.
Jolly Nature > Adamant Nature OR Air Balloon > Life Orb |

Baton Pass > Stealth Rock + 108 Spe EVs |

Leftovers > Smooth Rock + Stealth Rock > Ice Fang |


Azumarill > Gyarados

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry | Huge Power
Adamant Nature | 92 Hp / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Belly Drum | Knock Off | Play Rough | Aqua Jet
 
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