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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Oh this actually reminds me. I actually made a XY table of all the Pokemon that could be used by your friends' avatars. Should be more accurate the the buggy one Serebii has- and it includes summary stats. This list lets you quickly see what are the best options possible and you can scout through your friends list for a good match.
Finally got my Super Multi trophy! After friending mad peeps only to get crappy AI support, I finally got/borrowed a second game and system and did it myself. Agent Jack Bauer reporting.
Of course, this is only helpful for XY, but it seems like a handful of people still play it.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:TehPerson/List_of_Battle_Maison_Multi_Battle_Pokémon
Haha, I could have used that. I just picked my Y back up from trading some pokes to my Omega Ruby, got the all trophies itch back.
My grand Set 3 experiment has been firing quite a bit in the course of this week, as I have been trying several different approaches:
- I first tried an all-Gen Trick Room team: Cofagrigus3/Snorlax3/Quagsire3/Hariyama3/Empoleon3/Gourgeist3-XL. TR is a strong approach no matter how much you hobble your own team, and this was no different: 41 wins. However, relying on a single TR setter will get you in trouble, as a flubbed Turn 1 basically will end your run, and this was the case when Conkeldurr4 got a crit Iron Ball Fling on Cofagrigus3 and put the team on a slow track to its demise (against Owner Galton).
- I then bred for Imperfect Pyroar3 (non-31 SDef IVs) and Charizard3 (Mild-->Naïve, non-31 Def/SDef IVs), testing Charizard3 out in various formats. Its best performance so far has come in Multis, teaming with Steven's team and paired with Throh3 or Reuniclus3 (12 wins as of now).
- I decided to build a rudimentary double core team: Darmanitan3/Venusaur3/Kingdra3 formed an FWG in the lead, with a DSF backup in the form of Metagross3/Togekiss3/Tyrantrum4. This team got to 43 wins, before a Veteran squad of Moltres2/Regice2/Zapdos2/Tornadus1/Thundurus2/Suicune2 and one misplay on my part ended that. The team seems solid and will likely be tried again with Flygon3 taking the Dragon slot.
- I created Accelgor3/Mienshao3/Toxicroak3/Golurk3/Haxorus3/Druddigon3/Bouffalant3/Hydreigon3 yesterday, and bred for Imperfect Poliwrath3 last night. Poliwrath3 may be used for Flash Clash in a bit.
- I got a shaky team based off of Battle #35 from the above double-core streak: Staraptor3/Slowbro3/Reuniclus3/Throh3/Armaldo3, with Charizard3 filling the sixth slot and replacing Avalugg3. The team got through Basic Triples with a shaky Battle #19 against a VoltTurn/double Rock Slide team...and then achievied a non-streak in Super Triples with a humiliating Battle #1 beating from Waitress Char and Bastiodon/Aggron/Ampharos/Gardevoir/Lickilicky/Starmie (Set 1). Once again, watching NBA and Maison-ing at the same time is no good...
- The Disease of More struck the Roslindale Condores/Quetzales as The Bench jockeyed for more minutes and starting spots. To make everyone happy, I made a new 32-win streak with some Bench guys, using Sylveon/Manectric/Typhlosion/Megacross/Gengar/Leafeon and some modifications in terms of hold items. This also allowed me to keep accumulating BP for more Set 3 building later. The streak was stopped by Bastiodon/Muk/Aerodactyl/Magnezone/Venusaur/Luxray (Set 4). Not a horrifying opponent overall, but a nasty frontline for any Triples team's leads to go up against.
- I've assembled a new team from the guys PokeGen-ed yesterday, using Mienshao3/Golurk3/Haxorus3/Druddigon3/Bouffalant3/Hydreigon3. We'll see what transpires with this.
And so it continues...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a completely separate note, I've begun flipping through the Serebii XY Maison thread (the ORAS Maison thread doesn't exist, from what I can tell)...six pages in, it makes me very sad *tear*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: On a somewhat related note, I've also leafed through the Azurilland Maison Discussion and Records thread. As this grand Set 3 experiment currently has no concrete objectives or goals in mind, that thread will provide me with one for the time being. For those less experienced Maison folks who are here, I would recommend using their leaderboard as a sort of motivational tool: theirs is much smaller and looks to have been all but abandoned currently, so the streaks there are easier hurdles to clear. If you can succeed in beating all of those in a given format, you've got a shot to scale the heights here.
In my case, at the moment this means trying to top the lone Triples streak posted there, Blucario's VGC15 rain team, with some Set 3 team. A good squad with a clear strategy in mind and utilization of some nice anti-rain counters, it will be tough to beat this no matter what assemblage of Set 3s I use, so I will have to spend some more time teambuilding rather than just slapping Set 3s together. The nice thing is that, even if I lose interest in the project, the hurdle will remain for me to clear with any other Maison team or whatever. From there, I can begin to get past my own 200-win streak, and then past the actual 202-win streak, and then get back to 250, etc.
As currently set up, such a Set 3 team streak would be ineligible for the leaderboard, but perhaps that would motivate me to keep the "Set 3s with Egg Moves" breeding going at a brisk pace.
- I first tried an all-Gen Trick Room team: Cofagrigus3/Snorlax3/Quagsire3/Hariyama3/Empoleon3/Gourgeist3-XL. TR is a strong approach no matter how much you hobble your own team, and this was no different: 41 wins. However, relying on a single TR setter will get you in trouble, as a flubbed Turn 1 basically will end your run, and this was the case when Conkeldurr4 got a crit Iron Ball Fling on Cofagrigus3 and put the team on a slow track to its demise (against Owner Galton).
- I then bred for Imperfect Pyroar3 (non-31 SDef IVs) and Charizard3 (Mild-->Naïve, non-31 Def/SDef IVs), testing Charizard3 out in various formats. Its best performance so far has come in Multis, teaming with Steven's team and paired with Throh3 or Reuniclus3 (12 wins as of now).
- I decided to build a rudimentary double core team: Darmanitan3/Venusaur3/Kingdra3 formed an FWG in the lead, with a DSF backup in the form of Metagross3/Togekiss3/Tyrantrum4. This team got to 43 wins, before a Veteran squad of Moltres2/Regice2/Zapdos2/Tornadus1/Thundurus2/Suicune2 and one misplay on my part ended that. The team seems solid and will likely be tried again with Flygon3 taking the Dragon slot.
- I created Accelgor3/Mienshao3/Toxicroak3/Golurk3/Haxorus3/Druddigon3/Bouffalant3/Hydreigon3 yesterday, and bred for Imperfect Poliwrath3 last night. Poliwrath3 may be used for Flash Clash in a bit.
- I got a shaky team based off of Battle #35 from the above double-core streak: Staraptor3/Slowbro3/Reuniclus3/Throh3/Armaldo3, with Charizard3 filling the sixth slot and replacing Avalugg3. The team got through Basic Triples with a shaky Battle #19 against a VoltTurn/double Rock Slide team...and then achievied a non-streak in Super Triples with a humiliating Battle #1 beating from Waitress Char and Bastiodon/Aggron/Ampharos/Gardevoir/Lickilicky/Starmie (Set 1). Once again, watching NBA and Maison-ing at the same time is no good...
- The Disease of More struck the Roslindale Condores/Quetzales as The Bench jockeyed for more minutes and starting spots. To make everyone happy, I made a new 32-win streak with some Bench guys, using Sylveon/Manectric/Typhlosion/Megacross/Gengar/Leafeon and some modifications in terms of hold items. This also allowed me to keep accumulating BP for more Set 3 building later. The streak was stopped by Bastiodon/Muk/Aerodactyl/Magnezone/Venusaur/Luxray (Set 4). Not a horrifying opponent overall, but a nasty frontline for any Triples team's leads to go up against.
- I've assembled a new team from the guys PokeGen-ed yesterday, using Mienshao3/Golurk3/Haxorus3/Druddigon3/Bouffalant3/Hydreigon3. We'll see what transpires with this.
And so it continues...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a completely separate note, I've begun flipping through the Serebii XY Maison thread (the ORAS Maison thread doesn't exist, from what I can tell)...six pages in, it makes me very sad *tear*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: On a somewhat related note, I've also leafed through the Azurilland Maison Discussion and Records thread. As this grand Set 3 experiment currently has no concrete objectives or goals in mind, that thread will provide me with one for the time being. For those less experienced Maison folks who are here, I would recommend using their leaderboard as a sort of motivational tool: theirs is much smaller and looks to have been all but abandoned currently, so the streaks there are easier hurdles to clear. If you can succeed in beating all of those in a given format, you've got a shot to scale the heights here.
In my case, at the moment this means trying to top the lone Triples streak posted there, Blucario's VGC15 rain team, with some Set 3 team. A good squad with a clear strategy in mind and utilization of some nice anti-rain counters, it will be tough to beat this no matter what assemblage of Set 3s I use, so I will have to spend some more time teambuilding rather than just slapping Set 3s together. The nice thing is that, even if I lose interest in the project, the hurdle will remain for me to clear with any other Maison team or whatever. From there, I can begin to get past my own 200-win streak, and then past the actual 202-win streak, and then get back to 250, etc.
As currently set up, such a Set 3 team streak would be ineligible for the leaderboard, but perhaps that would motivate me to keep the "Set 3s with Egg Moves" breeding going at a brisk pace.
Last edited:
Really pissed at myself at the moment. Butchered a randoms streak on battle #368 by playing like a fucking retard which I believe I could have won had I prioritized much differently. Veteran Dorian was my opponent, the third such Veteran in a row during this streak.
Hypno/Luxray/M-Blastoise/Vaporeon/Gastrodon/Goodra
VS
Cobalion1/Virizion1/Landorus1/Zapdos2/Suicune2/Regigigas2
I deserved to lose because I neglected Virizion for the most part over all those turns until it was too late and TR had worn off, and in spite of eating Luxray's Intimidate, the RNG said "let there be crits!" and it meant nothing toward my survival. It also knew better than to target Goodra with Leaf Blade. Why did I not pick off Virizion, you ask? Because the asshole known as Fissure-packing Landorus1 played that card right off the bat and I wasted resources trying to eliminate it. Cobalion was slain quickly and Regigigas took its place; I slayed him as well, an even worse decision, as it would be replaced by Zapdos2, almost undeniably a bigger nuisance.
Had I been playing intelligently I would have shifted Blastoise into Luxray's position and thrown off their attacks or ganged upon Virizion immediately. Cobalion should have been saved for later regardless because my back line easily would have walled its attacks and killed it. Even if I'd sacked Blastoise to Virizion, the back line contained two Ice Beam users to clean up as well as waste Landorus.
So, yeah. I deserved that. But it was fun reaching that point, and many of the battles were won easily.
The record is personally significant because I not only beat my previous best with randoms, unlike the older streak, this one was done with 37(!) unique teams. No one was allowed to repeat, though obviously with that many rolls there were bound to be handfulls of various returning combatants.
Therein lies a small issue for me- I'd love to chronicle the teams used without just slapping down a wall of text no one will read let alone skim, and my idea was to use the ripped images for each poke; but this site only allows 100 images per post, and being a Triples streak means only 16 teams per post. It'd take three posts to show them all, which I'm not interested in doing. There's the option of organizing the images into teams and saving said teams individually, but I'm not really interested in doing that, either. So wall of text it is! I'll conceal the splotch within its own window to at least save space.
Some random trivia regardless of whether you skimmed:
I attribute the substantially greater success of this streak to 70% luck and 30% more efficiency in the way I handle things. I axed a lot of shit in reducing my flunkies to 90, and the things that were removed were primarily pokes that needed to be paired with specific pokes/actions in order to thrive, as well as many which needed a speed-halving item yet remained too similar to an existing Iron Ball holder or did not possess suitable bulk in addition to offense. A few things still queaked by out of personal preference (such as Breloom) but more than 50 pokes fell victim to the purging. As a result much fewer of my teams depended completely on opponent selection being kind to me, though I still feel like I really, really lucked out in that regard.
Additionally, all of my setters except Bronzong (the most offensively oriented one) were removed from the flunky boxes and put into their own box. The alternate duplicate sets were then mixed in with the flunkies instead. I did this to make room for a few more sets I really wanted to keep without pushing the minion count past my desired threshhold; in the rare instance the setter and a flunky were the same species, or a flunky also possessed a set with TR, I occasionally opted to use the offensive counterpart instead of the pokemon I rolled for my setter, and vice versa. I usually chose to do this with Porygon2 and Musharna if I rolled them because frequently the opposite moveset would have been a lot more useful on the team. I also did this if I rolled both Audino and Musharna (Audino is drawn via the roll for a Mega slot and not as a setter.)
After the initial purge, I then removed Beartic and Vespiquen after deciding the enjoyment of using them was too grossly disproportionate to the assets they brought to any given team. I still like them, but eh, not at the expense of a roster slot. The cuts allowed Spiritomb to come back as well as Omastar; the former ended up being drawn for the very next team after that happened and it really impressed me, though it helped that the AI generally didn't care to attack it, and it was getting a retarded number of Dark Pulse flinches.
Some choice replays for y'all without yanking the ones from my Aron team, since I'd like to keep them hosted for a good while. I'm pissed that I apparently didn't save a specific battle from my 311-320 streak, because that team fought to the bitter end and I won with my last poke standing. I did save a battle from that streak, but I did that for every single team just as a placeholder, so I could add the teams to a document later :/
All of these battles are from the 300+ leg of the journey because I was not about to rewatch 37+ videos just to remember what happened and deem it suitable for playing.
Battle #316: L28W-WWWW-WW4X-HH5M
Gothitelle/M-Mawile/Spiritomb/Golem/Azumarill/Gourgeist
This team had a much scarier battle that I didn't save because I apparently pressed onward too quickly. This one at least gets to show Spiritomb being a wretched little shit. At MY disposal for once!
Battle #327: YGCW-WWWW-WW4X-HY2U
Musharna/M-Gyarados/Carracosta/Nidoqueen/Azumarill/Honchkrow
This is the only other battle in over 360 where the match was decided in a 1v1 centered conflict. I absolutely depended on the AI choosing one move and not another, and won because of it, though their lack of a crit or status certainly helped. There were many challenging battles, don't get me wrong, but this was a nail-biter.
Battle #338: TGNW-WWWW-WW4X-HYZJ
M-Audino/Landorus/Snorlax/Breloom/Jellicent/Heatran
This... THIS is why I love Breloom and kept it in my pack of TR fiunkies, despite it easily possessing the worst bulk of all of them. But GameFreak has made a point of always giving Breloom enough to stay relevant since its Gen III inception, and those tools won this battle after a really shitty opening. While I can't say I'd have had too much faith in this particular team winning 100 battles by itself, this was a really fun team to use and I actually saved a bunch of battles from those ten because of it. It also reminded me why Snorlax was my #1 favorite Pokemon for a very long time.
Hypno/Luxray/M-Blastoise/Vaporeon/Gastrodon/Goodra
VS
Cobalion1/Virizion1/Landorus1/Zapdos2/Suicune2/Regigigas2
I deserved to lose because I neglected Virizion for the most part over all those turns until it was too late and TR had worn off, and in spite of eating Luxray's Intimidate, the RNG said "let there be crits!" and it meant nothing toward my survival. It also knew better than to target Goodra with Leaf Blade. Why did I not pick off Virizion, you ask? Because the asshole known as Fissure-packing Landorus1 played that card right off the bat and I wasted resources trying to eliminate it. Cobalion was slain quickly and Regigigas took its place; I slayed him as well, an even worse decision, as it would be replaced by Zapdos2, almost undeniably a bigger nuisance.
Had I been playing intelligently I would have shifted Blastoise into Luxray's position and thrown off their attacks or ganged upon Virizion immediately. Cobalion should have been saved for later regardless because my back line easily would have walled its attacks and killed it. Even if I'd sacked Blastoise to Virizion, the back line contained two Ice Beam users to clean up as well as waste Landorus.
So, yeah. I deserved that. But it was fun reaching that point, and many of the battles were won easily.
The record is personally significant because I not only beat my previous best with randoms, unlike the older streak, this one was done with 37(!) unique teams. No one was allowed to repeat, though obviously with that many rolls there were bound to be handfulls of various returning combatants.
Therein lies a small issue for me- I'd love to chronicle the teams used without just slapping down a wall of text no one will read let alone skim, and my idea was to use the ripped images for each poke; but this site only allows 100 images per post, and being a Triples streak means only 16 teams per post. It'd take three posts to show them all, which I'm not interested in doing. There's the option of organizing the images into teams and saving said teams individually, but I'm not really interested in doing that, either. So wall of text it is! I'll conceal the splotch within its own window to at least save space.
1-10: Dusclops/M-Blastoise/Shuckle/Medicham/Torterra/Landorus
11-20: Claydol/M-Steelix/Absol/Luxray/Rhyperior/Landorus
21-30: Claydol/M-Aggron/Regirock/Staraptor/Chandelure/Beartic
31-40: Dusclops/Machamp/Carracosta/Snorlax/M-Ampharos/Medicham
41-50: Jellicent/Hariyama/Regice/Slowking/M-Tyranitar/Medicham
51-60: Claydol/M-Tyranitar/Hydreigon/Porygon2/Emboar/Dragalge
61-70: Gothitelle/M-Abomasnow/Torterra/Snorlax/Reuniclus/Heatran
71-80: Hypno/M-Camerupt/Gigalith/Dragonite/Crawdaunt/Florges
81-90: Dusclops/M-Abomasnow/Shuckle/Machamp/Armaldo/Lickilicky
91-100: M-Audino/Musharna/Gigalith/Dragonite/Conkeldurr/Eelektross
101-110: Slowbro/M-Heracross/Regirock/Blissey/Tangrowth/Chandelure
111-120: Cofagrigus/M-Gyarados/Carracosta/Dragonite/Feraligatr/Rampardos
121-130: Carbink/M-Steelix/Tyranitar/Gardevoir/Torterra/Chesnaught
131-140: Musharna/M-Abomasnow/Beheeyem/Lickilicky/Chandelure/Bisharp
141-150: Cofagrigus/M-Mawile/Bouffalant/Nidoqueen/Flareon/Gastrodon
151-160: Musharna/M-Aggron/Tyranitar/Vespiquen/Magnezone/Lickilicky
161-170: Claydol/M-Blastoise/Torterra/Clefable/Marowak/Dragonite
171-180: Gothitelle/Luxray/M-Heracross/Porygon2/Metagross/Volcarona
181-190: M-Audino/Aegislash/Slowking/Dragonite/Gothitelle/Hydreigon
191-200: Conkeldurr/Cresselia/M-Slowbro/Gastrodon/Ferrothorn/Braviary
201-210: Jellicent/M-Camerupt/Gigalith/Salamence/Krookodile/Bisharp
211-220: Claydol/M-Gyarados/Gardevoir/Crawdaunt/Gastrodon/Beheeyem
221-230: Cresselia/Luxray/Regirock/Vileplume/Dragonite/M-Scizor
231-240: Cofagrigus/Torterra/M-Aggron/Vespiquen/Glaceon/Sylveon
241-250: Dusclops/Scrafty/Feraligatr/Machamp/M-Tyranitar/Musharna
251-260: Musharna/Scrafty/M-Ampharos/Vaporeon/Eelektross/Florges
261-270: Slowbro/M-Aggron/Avalugg/Gardevoir/Torterra/Chesnaught
271-280: Dusclops/M-Swampert/Florges/Blissey/Tangrowth/Conkeldurr
281-290: Gothitelle/M-Camerupt/Bronzong/Ursaring/Togekiss/Glaceon
291-300: Aromatisse/M-Abomasnow/Beartic/Absol/Rhyperior/Tangrowth
301-310: M-Tyranitar/Cresselia/Gigalith/Blissey/Absol/Metagross
311-320: Gothitelle/M-Mawile/Spiritomb/Golem/Azumarill/Gourgeist
321-330: Musharna/M-Gyarados/Carracosta/Nidoqueen/Azumarill/Honchkrow
331-340: M-Audino/Landorus/Snorlax/Breloom/Jellicent/Heatran
341-350: Carbink/M-Abomasnow/Azumarill/Ursaring/Braviary/Clawitzer
351-360: Musharna/M-Camerupt/Slowking/Flareon/Golurk/Hydreigon
361-368: Hypno/Luxray/M-Blastoise/Vaporeon/Gastrodon/Goodra
11-20: Claydol/M-Steelix/Absol/Luxray/Rhyperior/Landorus
21-30: Claydol/M-Aggron/Regirock/Staraptor/Chandelure/Beartic
31-40: Dusclops/Machamp/Carracosta/Snorlax/M-Ampharos/Medicham
41-50: Jellicent/Hariyama/Regice/Slowking/M-Tyranitar/Medicham
51-60: Claydol/M-Tyranitar/Hydreigon/Porygon2/Emboar/Dragalge
61-70: Gothitelle/M-Abomasnow/Torterra/Snorlax/Reuniclus/Heatran
71-80: Hypno/M-Camerupt/Gigalith/Dragonite/Crawdaunt/Florges
81-90: Dusclops/M-Abomasnow/Shuckle/Machamp/Armaldo/Lickilicky
91-100: M-Audino/Musharna/Gigalith/Dragonite/Conkeldurr/Eelektross
101-110: Slowbro/M-Heracross/Regirock/Blissey/Tangrowth/Chandelure
111-120: Cofagrigus/M-Gyarados/Carracosta/Dragonite/Feraligatr/Rampardos
121-130: Carbink/M-Steelix/Tyranitar/Gardevoir/Torterra/Chesnaught
131-140: Musharna/M-Abomasnow/Beheeyem/Lickilicky/Chandelure/Bisharp
141-150: Cofagrigus/M-Mawile/Bouffalant/Nidoqueen/Flareon/Gastrodon
151-160: Musharna/M-Aggron/Tyranitar/Vespiquen/Magnezone/Lickilicky
161-170: Claydol/M-Blastoise/Torterra/Clefable/Marowak/Dragonite
171-180: Gothitelle/Luxray/M-Heracross/Porygon2/Metagross/Volcarona
181-190: M-Audino/Aegislash/Slowking/Dragonite/Gothitelle/Hydreigon
191-200: Conkeldurr/Cresselia/M-Slowbro/Gastrodon/Ferrothorn/Braviary
201-210: Jellicent/M-Camerupt/Gigalith/Salamence/Krookodile/Bisharp
211-220: Claydol/M-Gyarados/Gardevoir/Crawdaunt/Gastrodon/Beheeyem
221-230: Cresselia/Luxray/Regirock/Vileplume/Dragonite/M-Scizor
231-240: Cofagrigus/Torterra/M-Aggron/Vespiquen/Glaceon/Sylveon
241-250: Dusclops/Scrafty/Feraligatr/Machamp/M-Tyranitar/Musharna
251-260: Musharna/Scrafty/M-Ampharos/Vaporeon/Eelektross/Florges
261-270: Slowbro/M-Aggron/Avalugg/Gardevoir/Torterra/Chesnaught
271-280: Dusclops/M-Swampert/Florges/Blissey/Tangrowth/Conkeldurr
281-290: Gothitelle/M-Camerupt/Bronzong/Ursaring/Togekiss/Glaceon
291-300: Aromatisse/M-Abomasnow/Beartic/Absol/Rhyperior/Tangrowth
301-310: M-Tyranitar/Cresselia/Gigalith/Blissey/Absol/Metagross
311-320: Gothitelle/M-Mawile/Spiritomb/Golem/Azumarill/Gourgeist
321-330: Musharna/M-Gyarados/Carracosta/Nidoqueen/Azumarill/Honchkrow
331-340: M-Audino/Landorus/Snorlax/Breloom/Jellicent/Heatran
341-350: Carbink/M-Abomasnow/Azumarill/Ursaring/Braviary/Clawitzer
351-360: Musharna/M-Camerupt/Slowking/Flareon/Golurk/Hydreigon
361-368: Hypno/Luxray/M-Blastoise/Vaporeon/Gastrodon/Goodra
Some random trivia regardless of whether you skimmed:
- It took thirty teams before all of my setters appeared once, with Aromatisse being the last.
- Only two of the teams rolled did not possess a single weakness to Ghost.
- Only five teams did not possess a single weakness to Ice.
- Over three quarters of the teams possessed a weakness to Water.
- Torterra and Dragonite were the most common flunkies, landing on six teams apiece.
- Musharna wins for both most frequent setter as well as overall appearance, at seven teams.
- Mega Abomasnow was the most frequent at five teams, while Mega Sableye never appeared.
I attribute the substantially greater success of this streak to 70% luck and 30% more efficiency in the way I handle things. I axed a lot of shit in reducing my flunkies to 90, and the things that were removed were primarily pokes that needed to be paired with specific pokes/actions in order to thrive, as well as many which needed a speed-halving item yet remained too similar to an existing Iron Ball holder or did not possess suitable bulk in addition to offense. A few things still queaked by out of personal preference (such as Breloom) but more than 50 pokes fell victim to the purging. As a result much fewer of my teams depended completely on opponent selection being kind to me, though I still feel like I really, really lucked out in that regard.
Additionally, all of my setters except Bronzong (the most offensively oriented one) were removed from the flunky boxes and put into their own box. The alternate duplicate sets were then mixed in with the flunkies instead. I did this to make room for a few more sets I really wanted to keep without pushing the minion count past my desired threshhold; in the rare instance the setter and a flunky were the same species, or a flunky also possessed a set with TR, I occasionally opted to use the offensive counterpart instead of the pokemon I rolled for my setter, and vice versa. I usually chose to do this with Porygon2 and Musharna if I rolled them because frequently the opposite moveset would have been a lot more useful on the team. I also did this if I rolled both Audino and Musharna (Audino is drawn via the roll for a Mega slot and not as a setter.)
After the initial purge, I then removed Beartic and Vespiquen after deciding the enjoyment of using them was too grossly disproportionate to the assets they brought to any given team. I still like them, but eh, not at the expense of a roster slot. The cuts allowed Spiritomb to come back as well as Omastar; the former ended up being drawn for the very next team after that happened and it really impressed me, though it helped that the AI generally didn't care to attack it, and it was getting a retarded number of Dark Pulse flinches.
Some choice replays for y'all without yanking the ones from my Aron team, since I'd like to keep them hosted for a good while. I'm pissed that I apparently didn't save a specific battle from my 311-320 streak, because that team fought to the bitter end and I won with my last poke standing. I did save a battle from that streak, but I did that for every single team just as a placeholder, so I could add the teams to a document later :/
All of these battles are from the 300+ leg of the journey because I was not about to rewatch 37+ videos just to remember what happened and deem it suitable for playing.
Battle #316: L28W-WWWW-WW4X-HH5M
Gothitelle/M-Mawile/Spiritomb/Golem/Azumarill/Gourgeist
This team had a much scarier battle that I didn't save because I apparently pressed onward too quickly. This one at least gets to show Spiritomb being a wretched little shit. At MY disposal for once!
Battle #327: YGCW-WWWW-WW4X-HY2U
Musharna/M-Gyarados/Carracosta/Nidoqueen/Azumarill/Honchkrow
This is the only other battle in over 360 where the match was decided in a 1v1 centered conflict. I absolutely depended on the AI choosing one move and not another, and won because of it, though their lack of a crit or status certainly helped. There were many challenging battles, don't get me wrong, but this was a nail-biter.
Battle #338: TGNW-WWWW-WW4X-HYZJ
M-Audino/Landorus/Snorlax/Breloom/Jellicent/Heatran
This... THIS is why I love Breloom and kept it in my pack of TR fiunkies, despite it easily possessing the worst bulk of all of them. But GameFreak has made a point of always giving Breloom enough to stay relevant since its Gen III inception, and those tools won this battle after a really shitty opening. While I can't say I'd have had too much faith in this particular team winning 100 battles by itself, this was a really fun team to use and I actually saved a bunch of battles from those ten because of it. It also reminded me why Snorlax was my #1 favorite Pokemon for a very long time.
It's easy enough to just tell what they are with some experience in the Maison and deducing stats.
For example, Steven's Metagross is Adamant with 252 Att and Def. Aerodactyl is Jolly with 252 Att and Speed.
For example, Steven's Metagross is Adamant with 252 Att and Def. Aerodactyl is Jolly with 252 Att and Speed.
Oh cool thanks. Anyone here have Omega Ruby and can check Maxie's Pokemon's base stats for me?
Sure!
His Crobat: (holds LO, moves are Cross Poison/Brave Bird/Super Fang/Roost)
HP: 160
Attack: 143
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 81
Special Defense: 100
Speed: 200
was bored, its max atk/speed jolly
His Camerupt (non-mega just looked at its stats)(moves are Earth Power, Flash Cannon, Yawn, Fire Blast, @Cameruptite):
HP:177
Attack:108
Defense:90
Special Attack:172
Special Defense:95
Speed:60
was also bored, its max hp/spa modest
Is that what you wanted? I'm sure I could try to plug it in to some formula to spit out the nature/ev's but too lazy
^no im not. also they all have 31 ivs all across the board in case you thought they werent for some reason
His Crobat: (holds LO, moves are Cross Poison/Brave Bird/Super Fang/Roost)
Attack: 143
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 81
Special Defense: 100
Speed: 200
was bored, its max atk/speed jolly
His Camerupt (non-mega just looked at its stats)(moves are Earth Power, Flash Cannon, Yawn, Fire Blast, @Cameruptite):
Attack:108
Defense:90
Special Attack:172
Special Defense:95
Speed:60
was also bored, its max hp/spa modest
^no im not. also they all have 31 ivs all across the board in case you thought they werent for some reason
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Thanks a lot dude. That will really help me complete my database.
Also, I noticed that for Multi Battle partners, special AI's (Steven, Wally, Shauna, Tierno, etc) all use Pokemon with Ability1. (FYI, Ability1/Ability2 is determined by a single bit in the personality value. A Pokemon without an Ability2 but with an Ability2 bit will become Ability1 by default, if the Hidden bit is on, it will become AbilityH).
And so I decided to take a look at the Friend List partners in XY to see if that was also true for Multi Partners, since I noticed that Multi Partners' Pokemon have static abilities. Turns out those Partners do not have abilities fixed to Ability1, but they do have abilities fixed to Ability1, Ability2, OR AbilityH- meaning that either all of their Pokemon have Ability1, all have Ability2, etc...
- Starmie (Natural Cure) + Accelgor (Stick Hold)
- Conkeldurr (Iron Fist) + Exeggcutor (Harvest)
- Floatzel (Swift Swim) + Nidoking (Rivalry)
- Druddigon (Mold Breaker) + Kingdra (Damp)
- Quagsire (Water Absorb) + Musharna (Synchronize)
In the Battle Maison, if a Trainer has a Pokemon with Ability1, all of their other Pokemon will have Ability1- same for Ability2 and AbilityH. This would be super useful info if it were true, since it appears to be
List of abilities - http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_by_Ability
EDIT
That second part I easily disproved. Just recall a battle with a Veteran or Dana and if an Articuno sent exerts its Pressure but the Moltres does not, then you know their Ability bits are different.
But I also found this out: while gender for opponents is completely random, the gender of your Multi Battle partner's Pokemon is predetermined by their own gender. Female partners only have female Pokemon (unless impossibl), and likewise for males.
As for partners' abilities, the semi-random theory still stands: every Trainer has a predetermined Ability set, Ability1, Ability2 or AbilityH, which determines the ability bit of their Pokemon. This is why if you choose the same NPC partner over and over again, the ability never changes.
EDIT 2
Here's the ORAS partner data:
Code:
Claydol5 | Calm | Light Clay | Light Screen | Reflect | Earth Power | Psychic | HP/SpD
Exploud5 | Modest | Assault Vest | Hyper Voice | Fire Blast | Blizzard | Shadow Ball | SpA/SpD
Magnezone5 | Modest | Air Balloon | Thunder Wave | Thunder | Reflect | Flash Cannon | SpA/SpD
Gallade5 | Adamant | Galladite | Psycho Cut | Close Combat | Leaf Blade | Swords Dance | Atk/Spd
Crobat5 | Jolly | Life Orb | Cross Poison | Brave Bird | Super Fang | Roost | Atk/Spd
Camerupt5 | Modest | Cameruptite | Earth Power | Fire Blast | Flash Cannon | Yawn | HP/SpA
Sharpedo5 | Jolly | Sharpedoite | Crunch | Aqua Jet | Poison Fang | Waterfall | Atk/Spd
Aerodactyl5 | Jolly | Focus Sash | Rock Slide | Ice Fang | Thunder Fang | Fire Fang | Atk/Spd
Metagross5 | Adamant | Metagrossite | Meteor Mash | Bullet Punch | Zen Headbutt | Hammer Arm | Atk/Def
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Yeah, no item is completely set in stone, least of all the speed halving items. One of the teams with Florges involved it losing the Expert Belt for the time being, in fact. I also haven't bothered to update that spreadsheet since making several changes here and there.
Crawdaunt didn't see a whole lot of action but I'm most likely to bring it out in situations where Knock Off or Aqua Jet is a quick kill. Psychics and Veterans fit that bill most often and there are small numbers of threats that would get the jump on Crawdaunt and threaten with a KO or sash break, Trevenant and Reuniclus among them. When I'm actually calling my shots like a competent battler I'll consider the AI's most likely action and go from there. Situations vary wildly as do the opponents; the more offensively solid the frontline is, the presence of my backline steadily diminishes. In that particular team, Camerupt is absolutely ridiculous and Gigalith with its WP set off is terrifying, which does not leave a lot of cleanup under normal circumstances.
There are no designated filler pokes. The RNG selects my team for me and I use alternate sets at my discretion, like I explained, albeit mebbe in a convoluted fashion. Item conflicts are pretty easily resolved.
Given that I use Mega Blastoise, Heracross, Florges and so on, speed obviously does not concern me as it does someone trying to hit milestones or optimize. I care a lot more about bulk, coverage, the ease/timing of using a support move like Gravity, and lastly I'll check the speed tiers to see how many checkmates outspeed it. But I've still given a lot of shit a chance.
Crawdaunt didn't see a whole lot of action but I'm most likely to bring it out in situations where Knock Off or Aqua Jet is a quick kill. Psychics and Veterans fit that bill most often and there are small numbers of threats that would get the jump on Crawdaunt and threaten with a KO or sash break, Trevenant and Reuniclus among them. When I'm actually calling my shots like a competent battler I'll consider the AI's most likely action and go from there. Situations vary wildly as do the opponents; the more offensively solid the frontline is, the presence of my backline steadily diminishes. In that particular team, Camerupt is absolutely ridiculous and Gigalith with its WP set off is terrifying, which does not leave a lot of cleanup under normal circumstances.
There are no designated filler pokes. The RNG selects my team for me and I use alternate sets at my discretion, like I explained, albeit mebbe in a convoluted fashion. Item conflicts are pretty easily resolved.
Given that I use Mega Blastoise, Heracross, Florges and so on, speed obviously does not concern me as it does someone trying to hit milestones or optimize. I care a lot more about bulk, coverage, the ease/timing of using a support move like Gravity, and lastly I'll check the speed tiers to see how many checkmates outspeed it. But I've still given a lot of shit a chance.
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Hi again. If you don't remember me, I'm the guy who was making a team for VGC and wanted to make BP with it to buy stuff I needed such as the Power items and a Life Orb.
Anyway, last time I was using Breloom/Krookodile/Gyarados (untrained) and I wanted something to replace Gyarados. Another user suggested Aegislash but I decided to go with the Steel type that was already on my team: Mega Mawile. I also changed the sets on some of them so my team ended up like this:
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Spore
-Bullet Seed
-Mach Punch
-Protect
I really like Breloom because it's really good at winning 1v1s against slower Pokémon. I mean, this thing can beat Blaziken without taking any damage (assuming it doesn't wake up). Between sleep turns and Bullet Seed, it seems like this thing would be haxed to death pretty quickly, but it's been a lot more consistent than I thought. This thing can usually take care of at least one opponent before it goes down.
Krookodile @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Knock Off
-Earthquake
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
This is my setup sweeper. Intimidate helps it weaken physical moves right from the get-go, allowing it to more easily set up. Knock Off and Earthquake are two very strong STAB moves that beat almost anything when set up. The berry is to increase its durability and allow me to set up another Sub. Would Leftovers work better here?
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate --> Huge Power
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Iron Head
-Play Rough --> Fire Fang
After one SD, this monster tears holes in teams. Although it's not that bulky, it luckily gets Sucker Punch, which you can relentlessly spam until you win. Iron Head is a powerful STAB that deals some damage to lots of Pokémon.
Wins: 68
My losing battle went something like this:
I send out Breloom, opponent sends out Chesnaught
I use Protect, Chesnaught uses Brick Break
I switch to Mawile, Brick Break almost 2HKOs
I mega, Mawile takes another Brick Break easily thanks to its improved defenses
Play Rough misses
Mawile faints, I send out Krookodile
Krookodile is able to take down Chesnaught
Krookodile is revenge killed by something
Breloom is able to beat that something
Opponent sends out... Toxic Stall Venusaur that spams Synthesis and Protect. Perfect. It walls me and I lose.
Yeah, you know what? I'm done with Play Rough. It's almost as bad here as it is in VGC- there's a reason I use a set of Iron Head / Sucker Punch / SD / Protect. Because Play Rough misses way too much. Fire Fang seems like my best coverage move but I'm concerned at how much it'll decide to miss.
tl;dr Play Rough is stupid, don't use it
Anyway, last time I was using Breloom/Krookodile/Gyarados (untrained) and I wanted something to replace Gyarados. Another user suggested Aegislash but I decided to go with the Steel type that was already on my team: Mega Mawile. I also changed the sets on some of them so my team ended up like this:
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Spore
-Bullet Seed
-Mach Punch
-Protect
I really like Breloom because it's really good at winning 1v1s against slower Pokémon. I mean, this thing can beat Blaziken without taking any damage (assuming it doesn't wake up). Between sleep turns and Bullet Seed, it seems like this thing would be haxed to death pretty quickly, but it's been a lot more consistent than I thought. This thing can usually take care of at least one opponent before it goes down.
Krookodile @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Knock Off
-Earthquake
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
This is my setup sweeper. Intimidate helps it weaken physical moves right from the get-go, allowing it to more easily set up. Knock Off and Earthquake are two very strong STAB moves that beat almost anything when set up. The berry is to increase its durability and allow me to set up another Sub. Would Leftovers work better here?
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate --> Huge Power
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Iron Head
-Play Rough --> Fire Fang
After one SD, this monster tears holes in teams. Although it's not that bulky, it luckily gets Sucker Punch, which you can relentlessly spam until you win. Iron Head is a powerful STAB that deals some damage to lots of Pokémon.
Wins: 68
My losing battle went something like this:
I send out Breloom, opponent sends out Chesnaught
I use Protect, Chesnaught uses Brick Break
I switch to Mawile, Brick Break almost 2HKOs
I mega, Mawile takes another Brick Break easily thanks to its improved defenses
Play Rough misses
Mawile faints, I send out Krookodile
Krookodile is able to take down Chesnaught
Krookodile is revenge killed by something
Breloom is able to beat that something
Opponent sends out... Toxic Stall Venusaur that spams Synthesis and Protect. Perfect. It walls me and I lose.
Yeah, you know what? I'm done with Play Rough. It's almost as bad here as it is in VGC- there's a reason I use a set of Iron Head / Sucker Punch / SD / Protect. Because Play Rough misses way too much. Fire Fang seems like my best coverage move but I'm concerned at how much it'll decide to miss.
tl;dr Play Rough is stupid, don't use it
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generally in the maison, anything that isn't 100% accurate is trash, and dumb to smoke. In competition it usually doesn't matter as much, because you need that extra damage to turn a 2HKO into a 1HKO, or a 3HKO into a 2HKO, and they're gonna be making the same gambles as you, and if you lose because of a miss, you can just make up for it in the next match. In the maison, it doesn't work that way. The computers don't give 2 shits about losing, so they'll make the riskiest plays on earth, and they only have to succeed one time to screw up your run. This means that your strategy to beat them, cannot fail to work, ever. They only need to succeed once, but you need to succeed every single time. So a 10% to miss, just isn't a good idea.
Fire Fang is such a shitty move, though, and it's not even 100% accurate. It'll miss and waste your turn(s) also. Even if it doesn't miss, you'll come to see it as a massive downgrade, of that I am certain.
While I dislike using particular moves for accuracy issues, I find this whole stigma with anything beneath 100% accuracy to be very silly for the simple reason that there are so many things with theoretically low odds that will take effect and are just as damning as a miss. Never mind the various enemies which hold Brightpowder or Lax Incense. I would find it easier to agree if this paranoia involved teams which were trying to reach thousands of wins, but much of the time they are nowhere close to the level of broken dependability to do that.
If the move is a staple to the user and there is no remotely similar alternative, get over your miss and use the fucking move. You save the rant and subsequent disowning for stuff like Stone Edge, Focus Blast and Hydro Pump.
While I dislike using particular moves for accuracy issues, I find this whole stigma with anything beneath 100% accuracy to be very silly for the simple reason that there are so many things with theoretically low odds that will take effect and are just as damning as a miss. Never mind the various enemies which hold Brightpowder or Lax Incense. I would find it easier to agree if this paranoia involved teams which were trying to reach thousands of wins, but much of the time they are nowhere close to the level of broken dependability to do that.
If the move is a staple to the user and there is no remotely similar alternative, get over your miss and use the fucking move. You save the rant and subsequent disowning for stuff like Stone Edge, Focus Blast and Hydro Pump.
...yeah, I'll just use Brick Break instead. It hits Steels.
Also, Play Miss is nowhere near a "staple" move on Mawile, if you were trying to make a point about that. It hits Dragons but in nearly every other situation, Iron Head is better. Even in VGC.
About your comment on "downgrading" the thing is that you're going to hit everything unresistant really hard anyway because you're using Mega Mawile. My team also happens to be weak to Chesnaught anyway, ok?
In addition, I didn't set out trying for thousands of wins but I think I may have something going here.
Avoiding low accuracy moves even considering other hax factors makes sense because you really need them for certain situations. Take this example: I lost because, as I mentioned, my team was weak to Chesnaught and Play Miss occurred at a crucial time. On the other hand, my Krookodile once knocked off a Mismagius' Bright Powder. My team has absolutely no problem with Mismagius, so even if I missed it a couple times, I'd still be able to eventually beat it. This is why missing a low accuracy move is a lot worse than missing some random thing with Bright Powder.
...which Venusaur we talking about here? Set 1 has Toxic & Synthesis, Sets 3 & 4 have Protect.
Keep in mind that Battle Maison is nothing like VGC. While VGC is a lot of out-predicting and niche strategies, Battle Maison is all about reading the AI and simply out-damaging your opponent. For Battle Maison, you can't afford to lose since that ends your streak- your opponents can afford to spam Sheer Cold and miss all they like, since 300 wins and a loss is still a lost streak.
Go for moves that are 90-100% (preferably 100%). If your Pokemon doesn't have accurate moves, it's not a Battle Maison Pokemon. And keep in mind, priority is your friend!
With all this datamining I've been doing, I haven't share the data on my own team. So here it is:
This is a doubles team. Triples take way to long, but the same principles that make high Triple streak easy to get apply here as well, so...
Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
- Fake Out
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Destiny Bond
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
Pretty self explanatory with Mega Kangaskhan- tanky, hard-hitting and tons of control with Sucker Punch and Fake Out.
Destiny Bond Gengar, while a really cheese thing to do in VGC, works extremely well in Battle Maison. Gengar does a shit ton of damage and upon surviving a near-fatal attack, set up a Destiny Bond with its high speed- allowing it to almost always remove at least one threat. The AI will never predicts a Destiny Bond and will always try to knock-out one of your Pokemon if it can. This is also why Protect is super useful. Very often (but not always), if you have a Pokemon with low health, the opponents will try to target all their Pokemon at your weak one to ensure it gets KO'ed. If you Protect on such a turn, it's essentially a free move for you.
Assault Vest Conkeldurr is one of the most reliable physical powerhouses in the game. Along with its tankiness, it can learn Drain Punch with an Iron Fist boost, allowing for tons of sustain. And throw in a Mach Punch to ensure you get that last-hit.
Hyper Voice Sylveon - because Fairy types OP
The main strategy of this team is basically to sweep- no setup. I threw in a lot of priority to make sure that opponents are denied as many turns as possible. If you can knock out a Pokemon before it even makes a move, that's essentially a free knock-out. Kangaskhan's Fake Out and Sucker Punch is especially good at this.
With this team, I've gotten up to Battle 360-something before I went full retard trying to Sludge Bomb a Chestnaught. I knew it may or may not have Bulletproof, but I felt like risking it anyways and everything went to shit afterwards. Regardless, I still have 6000+ BP that I have no idea what to do with. I often just waste
Go for moves that are 90-100% (preferably 100%). If your Pokemon doesn't have accurate moves, it's not a Battle Maison Pokemon. And keep in mind, priority is your friend!
With all this datamining I've been doing, I haven't share the data on my own team. So here it is:
This is a doubles team. Triples take way to long, but the same principles that make high Triple streak easy to get apply here as well, so...
Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
- Fake Out
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Destiny Bond
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
Pretty self explanatory with Mega Kangaskhan- tanky, hard-hitting and tons of control with Sucker Punch and Fake Out.
Destiny Bond Gengar, while a really cheese thing to do in VGC, works extremely well in Battle Maison. Gengar does a shit ton of damage and upon surviving a near-fatal attack, set up a Destiny Bond with its high speed- allowing it to almost always remove at least one threat. The AI will never predicts a Destiny Bond and will always try to knock-out one of your Pokemon if it can. This is also why Protect is super useful. Very often (but not always), if you have a Pokemon with low health, the opponents will try to target all their Pokemon at your weak one to ensure it gets KO'ed. If you Protect on such a turn, it's essentially a free move for you.
Assault Vest Conkeldurr is one of the most reliable physical powerhouses in the game. Along with its tankiness, it can learn Drain Punch with an Iron Fist boost, allowing for tons of sustain. And throw in a Mach Punch to ensure you get that last-hit.
Hyper Voice Sylveon - because Fairy types OP
The main strategy of this team is basically to sweep- no setup. I threw in a lot of priority to make sure that opponents are denied as many turns as possible. If you can knock out a Pokemon before it even makes a move, that's essentially a free knock-out. Kangaskhan's Fake Out and Sucker Punch is especially good at this.
With this team, I've gotten up to Battle 360-something before I went full retard trying to Sludge Bomb a Chestnaught. I knew it may or may not have Bulletproof, but I felt like risking it anyways and everything went to shit afterwards. Regardless, I still have 6000+ BP that I have no idea what to do with. I often just waste
I'd like to add my two cents on the accuracy issue that's been raised. I'm sure it's eben raised before and I'm sure that what I'm saying now has also been said before but I believe the use of certain moves (i.e. the ones that have less than 100% accuracy) comes down to one key factors:
ACCEPTANCE: If you choose to use a move that has less than 100% accuracy you need to accept the fact that that move will miss at some points. Using rock slide and getting salty about it missing every now and again is just poor risk management. You chose to put the move there, you should be aware of all the baggage that comes with it, good and bad. It's a spread move that can flinch but also one that should in theory miss one in every 10 times you use it.
Rock slide is a major move in my current triples run. I use it at least 50% of the time on a choice locked pokemon which will be the only pokmeon on my side of the field that makes an offensive play towards the AI. I know it will miss some of the time. I know it will miss 2 or all of the opponents some of the time but I use it if it is the right move to use at that point. If the advantages outweigh the negatives I use it (usually decided by the typing and abilities of opponents).
My triples team is now at over 400 wins and I have not once got annoyed at a rock slide miss but I do feel that I have taken steps else where on the team to mitigate this. I have support pokemon that can disrupt or draw away attacks that away from my "big hitter". Or, if there is a serious enough threat (and where possible) I'll double or triple target the threat to increase my chances of hitting it.
Now, having said all of that I do realise that triples is far more forgiving than the other formats but as I said - if you are going to use a lower than 100% accuracy you need to accept it and where possible take action where you can support that move.
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EDIT: For anybody interested in seeing my current triples team
ACCEPTANCE: If you choose to use a move that has less than 100% accuracy you need to accept the fact that that move will miss at some points. Using rock slide and getting salty about it missing every now and again is just poor risk management. You chose to put the move there, you should be aware of all the baggage that comes with it, good and bad. It's a spread move that can flinch but also one that should in theory miss one in every 10 times you use it.
Rock slide is a major move in my current triples run. I use it at least 50% of the time on a choice locked pokemon which will be the only pokmeon on my side of the field that makes an offensive play towards the AI. I know it will miss some of the time. I know it will miss 2 or all of the opponents some of the time but I use it if it is the right move to use at that point. If the advantages outweigh the negatives I use it (usually decided by the typing and abilities of opponents).
My triples team is now at over 400 wins and I have not once got annoyed at a rock slide miss but I do feel that I have taken steps else where on the team to mitigate this. I have support pokemon that can disrupt or draw away attacks that away from my "big hitter". Or, if there is a serious enough threat (and where possible) I'll double or triple target the threat to increase my chances of hitting it.
Now, having said all of that I do realise that triples is far more forgiving than the other formats but as I said - if you are going to use a lower than 100% accuracy you need to accept it and where possible take action where you can support that move.
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EDIT: For anybody interested in seeing my current triples team
Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Beat Up
- Ice Punch
- Fake Out
- Feint
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab
Togekiss @ Charti Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 4 SpA / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tailwind
- Follow Me
- Air Slash
- Roost
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Draco Meteor
- Protect
- Tailwind
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Drill Run
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Beat Up
- Ice Punch
- Fake Out
- Feint
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab
Togekiss @ Charti Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 4 SpA / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tailwind
- Follow Me
- Air Slash
- Roost
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Draco Meteor
- Protect
- Tailwind
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Drill Run
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover
The team is a beat up strategy team that I spoke about a few posts back with tailwind support. Togekiss is invaluable with the option to use Follow Me, which is where it really stands out against Talonflame.
There is a notable lack of protect but I haven't found this to be a huge issue. I wish Weavile had space for it but both Fake Out and Feint have been useful at various times.
I haven't found too many major issues with this team so far and battles are quite quick. I can rattle through 5 battles in roughly 15 minutes which I like a lot.
I will do a more in-depth analysis either when this team loses or when I get a to a suitably high number of wins (I wish!).
I'm also more than happy to answer any questions people may have about the team or strategy
There is a notable lack of protect but I haven't found this to be a huge issue. I wish Weavile had space for it but both Fake Out and Feint have been useful at various times.
I haven't found too many major issues with this team so far and battles are quite quick. I can rattle through 5 battles in roughly 15 minutes which I like a lot.
I will do a more in-depth analysis either when this team loses or when I get a to a suitably high number of wins (I wish!).
I'm also more than happy to answer any questions people may have about the team or strategy
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Heh, same here--just broke the 6000-BP mark last night with Uphaze Triples trophy team. (Against Jolteon/Beartic/Donphan/Drapion/Starmie/Braviary, Set 4) I was disappointed that he never updated the status of that streak after hitting the Trophy Hall of Fame, so I've decided to try it out and see what results. The major changes to the team are Tailow lacking Quick Attack and Tyranitar being replaced with my Imperfect Gigalith4. Due to Hypno & Megawile being PokeGen-ed, the team is ineligible for the leaderboard, but frankly I just wanted to break past Dana after several streaks from my grand Set 3 experiment were stopped in the 30s and 40s (and especially after one Set 1 team I tried out recently made it to 46 wins). The team is stupid fun to use, breaks most of the Maison's walls that tend to drag battles out quite easily, and though he was thrown in as filler, Gigalith4, as my 'Graft', has actually pulled his weight on the team (he actually had his shining moment so far in a battle I hope to share shortly). Piling up the BP has been quite gratifying, and it has facilitated me breeding for Imperfect Espeon4 and Replica Jolteon4. I will shoot for 100 wins now, and then use some of the winnings to try out a different sort of Maison set experiment: namely, testing just how strong a solid Triples team can be when it's forced to carry a garbage Maison set as the 'Graft' along for the ride. To that end, I will be trying another run with the Roslindale Condores/Quetzales, with Garchomp being replaced with either Jynx2 (who has the distinction of being the Maison's only Destiny Knot holder) or Gigalith1 (who has the distinction of being the Maison's only Gravity user, and who I actually like). If this were being tested on the above post, Jynx2 would replace...oh, I don't know, let's pick, Milotic.
Some replays to illustrate the awesomeness of this team, try it out sometime!
JQUG-WWWW-WW42-EHVV (vs. Mandibuzz/Durant/Pinsir/Mismagius/Wailord/Alakazam, Set 1)--this team has a major problem with multiple Taunt setters, and this battle illustrates this.
V9UW-WWWW-WW42-EYWH (vs. Gallade/Ambipom/Ursaring/Aromatisse/Claydol/Florges, Set 1)--this team also has a minor problem with Attract users, and this battle illustrates this.
ZR3G-WWWW-WW42-EYXG (vs. Manectric/Nidoking/Spiritomb/Unfezant/Cryogonal/Scrafty, Set 2)--easy battle, but it contains a scary moment where I'm suddenly faced with triple priority (which ended my 127-win streak).
9DVG-WWWW-WW42-EY2G (vs. Froslass/Floatzel/Slowbro/Whiscash/Gyarados/Swampert, Set 3)--easy battle, but I just like illustrating the 'dangerous' Water/Ice Set 3 trainers and the 'danger' they present
AYLW-WWWW-WW42-EY39 (vs. Registeel2/Latios2/Zapdos2/Regirock?/Regice1/Articuno2)--a battle illustrating how effective the team is at breaking down bulky fuckers like the Regis.
EBRG-WWWW-WW42-EY44 (vs. Dana)
BRQW-WWWW-WW42-EY4Z (vs. Jolteon4/Skarmory4/Charizard3/Mandibuzz?/Lanturn?/Electrode4)--I choose to think that's Lanturn4 and Mandibuzz4, just so I can say this team dismantled three bulky walls who normally annoy trainers in two turns.
MJGW-WWWW-WW42-EY5Y (vs. Mamoswine/Ninetales/Volcarona/Escavalier/Jolteon/Metagross, Set 4)--Escavalier4 wipes out Hypno early, forcing the rest of the team to improvise. Also, my Gigalith4 has his shining moment.
8CVG-WWWW-WW42-EY63 (vs. Beartic/Donphan/Jolteon/Braviary/Drapion/Starmie, Set 4)--Typical battle showing the team at work. Also, a little evidence for my theory that the Maison picks a "Pokémon of the Day", a Maison set that it tries to shoehorn into as many opposing teams as possible, every time you turn your DS on (Jolteon4 appeared 4 times from Battle2 #66-70, and he only didn't appear in #68 because that was a Veteran battle).
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I think that using moves with less that 100% accuracy depends on how well you can manage the rest of the battle if the move does miss.
At first I was wary about using Air Slash on Togekiss because of that 5% chance to miss, but in a Triples setting, I feel like having so much Pokemon helps me recover more easily than say in a Singles setting, where if Togekiss was 1v1 it would potentially take a huge hit and I'd be at a much larger disadvantage.
At first I was wary about using Air Slash on Togekiss because of that 5% chance to miss, but in a Triples setting, I feel like having so much Pokemon helps me recover more easily than say in a Singles setting, where if Togekiss was 1v1 it would potentially take a huge hit and I'd be at a much larger disadvantage.
When my Contrary Serperior missed Leaf Storm three times in a row on a Ranger's Quagsire4, I knew it was time to start looking for a replacement Special Attacker. It was still an easy battle (because Quagsire), but in the case against a tougher opponent like a Veteran, room for such bad luck cannot be allowed.
The difference between an accuracy 95% and an accuracy 100% move is that the 95% move still has a chance of missing (even ultiple times in a row)- an accuracy 100% is essentially infinitely less inaccurate against 95%. When you're going for high streaks, you can't ignore these odds. Serperior missing 2 Leaf Storms in a row = 1%. In a streak of 300, it means you're expected to have this occur 3 times. If any of these 3 battles turn out to be tough ones, it may cost you big. And this is just one of many ways you can lose- gay crits, unluckily bad matchups, status hax, misprediction/miscalculation, etc - the best way to hedge such risks is first to take out gay misses from your list of problems.
I remember using a Contrary Serperior in Super Rotation to get the trophy for that category, and I had it hold onto a Wide Lens to help remedy the 90% accuracy. I was fine without having better items since it can boost itself up with Leaf Storm, and I put Giga Drain on it as a way to heal itself up.
I never took the Serperior or the team in general very far, though. I just wanted to get the 50 win streak and be done with Rotation Battles
I never took the Serperior or the team in general very far, though. I just wanted to get the 50 win streak and be done with Rotation Battles
The list is so long and so many circumstances may be in play at any one time that frankly the 90% accuracy is laughable to me. For every battle I've lost because I missed a Rock Slide, I've lost fifty for any other reason. So many "bad" circumstances have much higher odds of occurring, such as the Quick Claw or flinching.
You'll get no argument from me that from an optimization point of view it's always better to remove an element of risk than to introduce it, but I also agree with frigidkitsune that risk management with the team as a whole matters more than the move itself. If your team gets eaten alive by a species or type combination and has only one answer to it, shaky or otherwise, your problems go far beyond a 90% accurate kill move.