In theory (I haven't done much battling), Xerneas is better than Fairy Arceus in that it can pose an immediate threat with Geomancy. Something with Follow Me or Rage Powder and that can take out Aegislash (Togekiss seems to fit the bill here) will allow Xerneas to have a much easier time setting up.
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In theory (I haven't done much battling), Xerneas is better than Fairy Arceus in that it can pose an immediate threat with Geomancy. Something with Follow Me or Rage Powder and that can take out Aegislash (Togekiss seems to fit the bill here) will allow Xerneas to have a much easier time setting up.
Actually, your theory-monning has it backwards: fairy arceus presents a bigger, more immediate thread BECAUSE it doesn't need to set up geomancy. Xerneas has that "make it or break it" turn where you're super vulnerable: either you get your boost and are set, or you don't, and xern is essentially crippled for the rest of the match. I've been testing it on showdown, and I'm about ready to start considering other sets now that'll give xern a bit more immediate utility.
Though, when you DO manage to get that geo boost...man, is that fun, lol.
I was basing the concept of "threatening" on how much stronger you can get in as little time as possible, but I see your reasoning. I have this feeling that there will be Darkrai paired with a Fake Out user, and two ways I can think of to stop it are a faster Fake Out or outspeeding Darkrai. What do you think?
Persian + Darkrai is very threatening, why? Fast Fake Out from Persian PLUS Unnerve, that means you can ignore Lum Berry and put to sleep whatever you want, also has access to Encore and Feint, who are very good support moves.
Talonflame + Darkrai is very cool, because Talonflame is a very large threat but, have access to Quick Guard, who represents that you can ignore any priority in the form of Extreme Speed, GW Brave Bird or FAKE OUT (in theory any Pokémon with access to Quick Guard can function in the same way)
The best ways to deal with that sleep, is with a fast Fake Out (Ludicolo in the rain for example), outspeeding Darkrai (Powerful Scarf Users) OR Prankster Safeguard/Misty Terrain (With Misty Terrain you have the plus of halvening the damage of Dragon-type attacks). Other method I think could probably work, but not being effective as the others who I mentioned is Sleep Talk, but you have the presion of Bad Dreams.
I've only battled a few times on the ladder, and I've seen Darkrai and Kyogre so much. Not that it surprises me though. I did see a Ho-Oh and Groudon pair before, which I lost to and I tried to fix my team to deal with them. How does this look?
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Modest, 252 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 4 Spe
Flash Cannon
Heat Wave
Rock Slide
Earth Power
Flash Cannon is for surprise Xerneas, Heat Wave is for standard spread damage (against Hail especially), Rock Slide for Ho-Oh, and Earth Power as filler. EVs are rather standard as I don't know where else to put them.
Rest of the team is fairly standard as well:
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Iron Head
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Scald
put more protects everywhere, it's a very important move in doubles
Hi! Are there any mentors here or well-known experienced players willing to look at my team and give some feedback? I've been testing it on PS, and while the synergy is definitely better than when I started, I feel like an experienced eye would help me take my team to the next level. I'd prefer to discuss off-thread, since I don't want to choke this thread with minutiae that wouldn't really help other players. Please feel free to contact me, or let me know how to contact you.
Thanks! :)
Thanks! :)
Persian doesn't learn Encore, sadly, unless I'm missing something here.
Mine has the move Snatch, which is actually pretty handy for taking away prankster-boosted safeguards. Thanks to Snatch's change this gen, whatever Persian takes, won't be snatched by a slower snatch user on the same turn anymore!
I've used the combo of Persian, Darkrai, and Yveltal quite extensively on Battle Spot Triples, and it's a nightmare for unprepared teams. However, its effectiveness varies depending on the lead match-up from your opponent. Even with Dark Void, there's still the threat of Dark Void missing or one-turn wakeup. This is especially an issue against bulkier Pokemon that can tank a few boosted dark pulses, namely bulky fairy types like Mawile, not to mention the fact that this will be in the doubles format, so that's one LESS Pokemon to dish out hits with per turn right there. Persian's a good support pokemon for Darkrai, but its damage output is overall pretty low, which is bad when you want to quickly finish off Pokemon you've put to sleep with Dark Void.
Keeping Darkrai in the back to help clean up late game will be a safer and probably more effective game plan for this format, I think. That way you can have two other team members to blow up your opponent's leads hoping to counter your Darkrai set-up and gain that delicious turn 0 momentum.
It actually doesn't. I didn't bother to look it up. What you say is true, having Darkrai in the back is more beneficial; I've always faced Darkrai as a lead and it's really easy to take out. Ho-Oh and Zekrom are very large threats as they can take attacks from the most common threats (like Kyogre) and hit very hard back. I'm hard-pressed to find a counter for them in this meta. Best thing I could do is double-up on one; if both are out, something is going to die.
If Darkrai is going to put my entire team to sleep, I'll slap Sleep Talk with three attacks so that the sleep status is invalid to me since I can still attack.
Preventing sleep is too hard for me to maintain because once Klefki is KOed and safeguard wears off, then the. Darkrai can proceed to use Dark Void again.
Preventing sleep is too hard for me to maintain because once Klefki is KOed and safeguard wears off, then the. Darkrai can proceed to use Dark Void again.
Looking for something with quick guard, fake out, and something to smash e-killer arceus and kanga's face in. So far the only thing I've really found is mienshao, but it's so frail and needs a LO to be able to OHKO arceus and kanga with low kick so I can't use a sash. Terrakion looks like a possibility as well, though it doesn't have wide guard or fake out.
Unfortunately, the only Pokemon that have Fake Out and Wide Guard are limited to Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Mr. Mime (of all things), Hariyama, Mienshao, and Smeargle. Not the best things to use, though Hitmontop was very popular with Kyogre in VGC 2010 where they allowed Ubers. Terrakion is one of the best offensive checks to Extreme Killer, going off of gen V ubers.
Mienshao could probably get away with Hi Jump Kick in this format, as of the two only Kanga runs Protect and even then it's hard pressed to find a moveslot for it. It absolutely needs a Sash to take on E-Killer otherwise an Extreme Speed will absolutely destroy it... Hi Jump Kick is the only thing that's guaranteed a KO.
Meowstic has fake out (a weak one), quick guard, and prankster. It also has reasonable bulk, though not as good as klefki.
EDIT: Since pokes with quick guard cannot attack the turn they use quick guard, it'd be a great way to protect a vulnerable teammate (like terrakion) while the partner does the smashing. When I've played against ekiller, I've found that my opponent will use it to attack the biggest threat, and if mienshao is the biggest threat to ekiller, then that's the one they'll attack (and you can't use quick guard while you're attacking). You end up left with a mind game with ekiller: are they going to go for espeed again while you attack (in which case, OHKO), or a slower move? And what happens when high jump kick misses? (OHKO)
Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. :)
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Since everything in ubers land is heavy as fuck, low kick will be 120 BP a lot of the time and doesn't make you afraid of random things carrying protect.
Yeah, that's a good point, though I don't really know what to replace.
Here's my team so far, though I haven't tested it at all:
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
Mawile (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Zekrom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Tailwind
- Protect
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
Landorus-Therian @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Knock Off
Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Low Kick
- Quick Guard
- Wide Guard
feint on mienshao to hit through wide guards???
LO on ludicolo?
quick/wide guard somewhere else?
another item on lando?
crunch on zekrom to hit things like cress hard?
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
Mawile (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Zekrom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Tailwind
- Protect
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
Landorus-Therian @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Knock Off
Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Low Kick
- Quick Guard
- Wide Guard
feint on mienshao to hit through wide guards???
LO on ludicolo?
quick/wide guard somewhere else?
another item on lando?
crunch on zekrom to hit things like cress hard?
Wow, that zekrom looks familiar (I'm using one very similar, lol). (After playtesting, I found that Haruno's recommendation of tailwind was useful.)
My ace supporter has definitely been hitmontop. It looks like it can be a drop-in for your mienshao. It has ability intimidate to increase physical bulk (and give ekiller a -1 attack drop), fake out, wide guard, quick guard, and close combat. It also has much better defenses than mienshao (though, you have to be careful with close combat). I've given mine a lum berry to counter darkrai (as fake out + close combat guarantees a KO with lum berry), but if unnerve + darkrai is actually going to be a thing I see in competition....I dunno.
I've also been using rocky helmet amoonguss, which uses rage powder to redirect attacks (all but fake out), and it kind of works.
Not like zekrom has very big of a movepool in the first place!
Hitmontop's cool but I've already got two intimidators. Lando's very replaceable though. The problem I have with hitmontop is that it's still only got base 95 atk and is too slow to be able to deal with kanga.
Then amoonguss would probably fit well on your team. Amoonguss, with intimidate support, can more easily shrug off hits from kangaskhan, while dealing 2x rocky helmet recoil. It also has spore and regenerator, so when you switch it out (if you're shuffling lando-t for intimidate, for example), you can heal off some of the damage. Or, you could opt for effect spore, with a chance to status them (typically para or sleep, but sometimes poison) when you redirect them into amoonguss. No real offensive presence, though. The reason I don't think it works as well for me is because I don't have as many intimidators or other attack droppers to make it effective.
EDIT: And yeah, that's part of why I ended up opting for tailwind on zekrom too, lol. :)
EDIT2: Though, if you have enough time to level it to 100, you might consider using bolt strike over fusion bolt. Less accuracy, but greater damage.
Unnerve and Darkrai aren't exactly too much of a threat, because you can Fake Out Darkrai and then have a Scarf Kyogre blast them both with Water Spout, but that's how I deal with them. Amazingly, I haven't seen any Zekrom while on the ladder, but that's because I was playing late at night when only like two other people are practicing. Also, Katsuragi's Manectric proved to be useful when Kyogre is out at the same time.
Well here's what I've got so far:
How's it look?
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
I got rekt by a scarfogre with sheer cold on showdown today -- it could be clutch if kyogre's the last thing standing and can't KO the opponent any other way, since I've never needed hydro pump yet
Mawile (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Zekrom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Tailwind
- Protect
Not sure if I should use focus sash or lum berry here
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
Outspeeds a timid scarf kyogre in the rain by 1 point
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Quick Guard
- Protect
Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 78 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Follow Me
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
EVs are to survive a +2 modest xern moonblast
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
I got rekt by a scarfogre with sheer cold on showdown today -- it could be clutch if kyogre's the last thing standing and can't KO the opponent any other way, since I've never needed hydro pump yet
Mawile (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Zekrom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Tailwind
- Protect
Not sure if I should use focus sash or lum berry here
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
Outspeeds a timid scarf kyogre in the rain by 1 point
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Quick Guard
- Protect
Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 78 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Follow Me
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
EVs are to survive a +2 modest xern moonblast
How's it look?
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Looks good! Though Ludicolo doesn't need THAT much speed as Kyogre can't do much to it anyway. But that's my opinion. Good luck today everyone! :D
If its one point faster than scarf kyogre, it's one point faster than all the base 90 legendaries. I think Pyritie's speed EVs are good here. :)
It can do a ton of damage to it before it even moves, which basically completely stops it from water spout spam.
Holy moly, enough with the connection errors, game. I've had more erros than actual games played today.
...given I only played 2 so far as of making this post but still!
Team building for this competition was an adventure, but I think I made a solid team for this. Time will tell.
...given I only played 2 so far as of making this post but still!
Team building for this competition was an adventure, but I think I made a solid team for this. Time will tell.
LET'S GET THIS SHIT ROLLING
Music 8 is the legendary theme by the way. I'm using a team of Absol, Palkia, Cresselia, Arceus, Ferrothorn, and Landorus-T. I'll try to save some good replays!
EDIT: ugh, just let a Mega Kangaskhan walk all over me, I should be better than that >_>
Music 8 is the legendary theme by the way. I'm using a team of Absol, Palkia, Cresselia, Arceus, Ferrothorn, and Landorus-T. I'll try to save some good replays!
EDIT: ugh, just let a Mega Kangaskhan walk all over me, I should be better than that >_>
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